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I Hate MKV with a vengeance! MP4 Conversion with Handbrake?

EmPPgamer said:
The original MKV was around 6GB. I want it converted to ATV3 format so I can watch it on an iPad as we are going away for a few days soon, and also so it will play on ATV without problem.
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I just got back from a trip and to save DATA and SPACE I used PLEX sync. It stored the videos on my device. 10 hour long tv shows, 2 movies BARELY hit 2gb when I synced with PLEX. The files together are about 15gb but plex transcoded it for the device. Worked GREAT
 
A bit more convoluted solution

I like to reduce the size of my mkv files while converting. I can't tell any difference between a 6GB and 1.5 GB file so saving space is my main concern. As I result, here is my workflow:

1. Rip mkv's with MakeMKV. I can Rip a 100GB's or so to start the process
2. Start Parallels and batch convert to mp4s with DVD Catalyst (now Video Catalyst) This also lets me put the filenames in a format recognized by Suber/IDentify
3. Add video information with Subler or Identify

DVD Catalyst runs fine in a VM, I've also run it with Crossover but prefer the VM.

Not an elegant solution but it saves me a lot of space.

I have used DVD Catalyst since it's earliest incarnations and really like it. The developer provides great email support, and upgrades have been free for quite some time. I actually repurchased it since I have found it so useful as a way of thanking the developer.

Video Catalyst
 
jlc1978 said:
I like to reduce the size of my mkv files while converting. I can't tell any difference between a 6GB and 1.5 GB file so saving space is my main concern. As I result, here is my workflow:

1. Rip mkv's with MakeMKV. I can Rip a 100GB's or so to start the process
2. Start Parallels and batch convert to mp4s with DVD Catalyst (now Video Catalyst) This also lets me put the filenames in a format recognized by Suber/IDentify
3. Add video information with Subler or Identify

DVD Catalyst runs fine in a VM, I've also run it with Crossover but prefer the VM.

Not an elegant solution but it saves me a lot of space.

I have used DVD Catalyst since it's earliest incarnations and really like it. The developer provides great email support, and upgrades have been free for quite some time. I actually repurchased it since I have found it so useful as a way of thanking the developer.

Video Catalyst
Click to expand...

Why would anyone need to run Windows? I run MakeMKV and then Handbrake, followed by Subler (to set the HD/Movie tags) and then MetaZ for meta-data for M4V files and they're ready to import into iTunes with all the same professional style data that the iTunes store movies have on them, except they're not encrypted so they'll also run in XBMC or any other player out there that supports MP4s. They also have sub-titles, chapter data and multiple audio tracks. If I want DTS, I can make a smaller MKV with full 5.1 or even 7.1 Master Audio (pass-through) that will still run just fine in XBMC.
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
Why would anyone need to run Windows? I run MakeMKV and then Handbrake, followed by Subler (to set the HD/Movie tags) and then MetaZ for meta-data for M4V files and they're ready to import into iTunes with all the same professional style data that the iTunes store movies have on them, except they're not encrypted so they'll also run in XBMC or any other player out there that supports MP4s. They also have sub-titles, chapter data and multiple audio tracks. If I want DTS, I can make a smaller MKV with full 5.1 or even 7.1 Master Audio (pass-through) that will still run just fine in XBMC.
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I use it simply because Video Catalyst gives me more flexibility in setting output type and size. I also generally directly rip without converting to MKV (I just use that for my Blu Rays). Personally, I prefer IDentify to Subler since I set tags and Meta Data in one operation.

I'd love to find an OSX solution that is as flexible and easy to use as VC but haven't. Handbrake is good but is slower and not as easy to use as VC. Every other one I've tried doesn't match VC in features.

In the end, it's all a matter of preference.

StinDaWg said:
Must be blind.
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I see no reason to make larger files that offer me no better viewing experience. I am using a projection TV with a decent sound system; so smaller files work just fine for me. I am happy to trade size for more content on my NAS. I can always play the original disk if needed but as I said I see no difference so there is no compelling reason to waste space.

I realize some like to measurebate and argue specs and resolution etc. but in the end what counts is the viewing experience. Mine works for me and I assume yours works for you. Neither is inherently better just appropriate for the specific use.
 
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jlc1978 said:
I use it simply because Video Catalyst gives me more flexibility in setting output type and size. I also generally directly rip without converting to MKV (I just use that for my Blu Rays). Personally, I prefer IDentify to Subler since I set tags and Meta Data in one operation.
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I just discovered that Subler has Meta Data search in it. I've been using it correct audio track labels, set HD flags, etc., but I never realized it had its own search feature since I never looked any instructions for it (not sure at what point it gained what feature plus I didn't have the latest version anyway). I see MetaZ has TV show support in it now as well (I've mostly been using XBMC's scrapers for TV Shows since not all my files have been in M4V, but if I wanted to move to say an ATV3 that currently can't be hacked to run XBMC, I'd have to convert all my files. MKVs can easily be converted without loss to M4V, but I think AVI would need encoded again and that would probably drop video quality a bit.

On the other side of the coin, XBMC handles DTS-MA (bitstream pass-through or core 5.1 output via optical) and DolbyTrueHD decoding so even with my current Gen1 AppleTV I can encode MKVs with DTS-MA 7.1 tracks (that will still output a 5.1 DTS core over optical to my current receiver that doesn't have HDMI or MA support) and DolbyTrueHD as well. Thus, once I install my CrystalHD card and put CrystalUbuntu on it (probably via USB stick for now since I want the Apple interface for the occasional rental and what not), I could basically have 1080p with DTS-MA or DolbyTrueHD and have no use for the Blu-Rays at all without a loss in sound quality (i.e. I don't want to go back to playing discs save perhaps the occasional 3D Blu-Ray once I get my new 1080p 3D projector).

I'm not 100% convinced in the utter superiority lossless sound in movies (i.e. that I'd notice the difference worth the extra file space and move away from Apple's integrated interface completely) and so far have been encoding 720p with Dolby Digital or buying them that way. Now with a Blu-Ray drive on my Mac Mini, I've been buying loads of fairly cheap Blu-Rays (many many older movie favorites seem to average a mere $5-8 online, which isn't much more than renting them via iTunes so I've been buying quite a few recently), I'm able to rip/encode to 1080p or 720p with quit a few audio options. I've been testing how well they stream in MKV with DTS-MA, etc. and it they are fine thus far on my network. At 720p with DTS-MA and a backup stereo AAC track, movie files seem to be 6-8GB compared to around 2-3GB with regular DTS only.

I just tested a conversion of Stargate to M4V with 5.1 Dolby Digital, AAC Stereo and DTS 5.1 (encoded with Handbrake) and XBMC Frodo 12.3 on my Mac Mini recognizes the DTS 5.1 track just fine (iTunes simply ignores it). Sadly, XBMC Eden (that doesn't require Linux to be installed on an AppleTV Gen1) doesn't recognize the DTS track. Still, it's nice to be able to have a DTS track and still keep the movie iTunes friendly as well. I'd just need to move to a newer XBMC in the future (e.g. Crystalbuntu would solve this at the point where I'd want 1080p output anyway).

I do with XBMC would add id-Tag support for both M4V and MKV, though either way.
 
Sounds like a lot of work. Take MKV file and run it through MP4Tools. Takes 10 minutes tops. Then run newly created M4V through iflicks2 or identify and call it a day. Everyone here does realize that 99% of MKV files utilize the h.264 codec, the same codec that is used by M4V files. Therefore there is no need to encode the video, only different audio streams are supported in M4V formats.
 
famous600 said:
Sounds like a lot of work. Take MKV file and run it through MP4Tools. Takes 10 minutes tops. Then run newly created M4V through iflicks2 or identify and call it a day. Everyone here does realize that 99% of MKV files utilize the h.264 codec, the same codec that is used by M4V files. Therefore there is no need to encode the video, only different audio streams are supported in M4V formats.
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You do realize that MP4Tools does not re-encode video, right? If you just pass-through the video created by MakeMKV from a Blu-Ray with MP4Tools, your file size will be like 15-40GB!!! I've got 19 MKVs stored right now at full size and they take over well over 450GB! For a lousy 19 movies. At that rate, a 3TB drive would be filled with about 125 movies or so. I've got over 650 movies, a boat load of TV Shows and quite a few other media items on my 3TB drive and still have over 200GB left by my "lot of work" method whereby HD movies only take up 2-4GB instead of 20-40GB. The loss in video quality is usually negligible.
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
You do realize that MP4Tools does not re-encode video, right? If you just pass-through the video created by MakeMKV from a Blu-Ray with MP4Tools, your file size will be like 15-40GB!!! I've got 19 MKVs stored right now at full size and they take over well over 450GB! For a lousy 19 movies. At that rate, a 3TB drive would be filled with about 125 movies or so. I've got over 650 movies, a boat load of TV Shows and quite a few other media items on my 3TB drive and still have over 200GB left by my "lot of work" method whereby HD movies only take up 2-4GB instead of 20-40GB. The loss in video quality is usually negligible.
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No need to be upset in your lot of work method. Some people prefer remarkable quality and large file sizes. No big deal.
 
Come on guys: MKV is the best format. It is the perfect container to store everything. And yes DTS-HD/MA is huge, but storage costs nothing, and in 2 years your ATV is obsolete yet you still have your awesome high bitrate MKV's.

But if it does not play: FIX THE PLAYER DEMMIT!

In other words: use Beamer and stop whining.
 
blanka said:
Come on guys: MKV is the best format. It is the perfect container to store everything. And yes DTS-HD/MA is huge, but storage costs nothing, and in 2 years your ATV is obsolete yet you still have your awesome high bitrate MKV's.

But if it does not play: FIX THE PLAYER DEMMIT!

In other words: use Beamer and stop whining.
Click to expand...

I agree that MKV is a much better container :)
 
blanka said:
Come on guys: MKV is the best format. It is the perfect container to store everything. And yes DTS-HD/MA is huge, but storage costs nothing, and in 2 years your ATV is obsolete yet you still have your awesome high bitrate MKV's.

But if it does not play: FIX THE PLAYER DEMMIT!

In other words: use Beamer and stop whining.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that Beamer transcodes from MKV to ATV format on the fly as it plays. What have you really gained over a Handbrake encode? Just asking, not flaming.
 
blanka said:
Come on guys: MKV is the best format. It is the perfect container to store everything.
Click to expand...

I've got two problems with MKV right now. One is that it's not supported commercially as it is viewed as a pirate format only (i.e. no one is using it commercially so there is no need to support it on any legitimate platform or so goes the thinking by those that make this stuff. FLAC has largely been treated the same way as are most open formats due to the fact that someone would rather make money off a proprietary format).

The other problem is that despite MKVs being capable of carrying meta tags, I know of no software that will readily automate this for them and that is probably due to the fact that most if not all players won't read IDTags from them (chicken/egg). I've been begging the XBMC people for years to just READ the damn IDTags in M4V containers, but they have zero interest and I mean zero. Their music tag reader can ALREADY read the IDTags if you relabel M4V to M4A. All they would have to do is move that code with a few changes to the movie section and read that first over scraping. No, they reply with smart remarks about go out and learn to code yourself and put it in there yourself or shut up about it. Yeah, that's helpful. :rolleyes:

And yes DTS-HD/MA is huge, but storage costs nothing, and in 2 years your ATV is obsolete yet you still have your awesome high bitrate MKV's.
Click to expand...

Storage costs nothing? Bullcrap. If I want another 3TB drive, it's going to be 3x the cost of a single one (i.e. more like $300 which I don't call "nothing" and I'd need probably 20-30 TB to dump Blu-Rays uncompressed for 600+ movies) since I need a backup and an off-site backup to make sure my data is secure. Otherwise, one house fire and you lose EVERYTHING and in my case that would mean YEARS or work scanning and cleaning up photo albums, dumping and encoding DVDs, Blu-Rays, etc. Editing home videos, even making my own album. No, one more drive (which still doesn't cost "nothing") won't do it.

As for DTS-HD/MA, it's a joke. No one on earth can heard the difference between DTS-MA and regular DTS. Yeah, 2 million people THINK they can but not ONE has EVER proved it with a certified DBX test, only unprovable BS claims. In short, I don't need to waste the storage space. They only exist as a marketing hype to fill unneeded space to begin with (i.e. Blu-Rays also typically have 4-6 more soundtracks for foreign languages almost no one uses, but with all that empty wasted space, why not? It's sounds good on paper and the few that use them will love it).

But if it does not play: FIX THE PLAYER DEMMIT!
Click to expand...

Yeah, just fix it. See above about XBMC.

In other words: use Beamer and stop whining.
Click to expand...

Why don't you stop preaching and I'll stop whining? I never heard of Beamer until today and looking at it, I can't imagine why I'd give that guy one red cent. I can ALREADY "beam" any movie playable on my Mac to my Apple TV using Airplay for free. In other words, just play the movie on your Mac and set the output to Airplay to AppleTV. You just saved yourself whatever that guy is asking to do something Apple already allows. For example, I've "beamed" video games to my living room TV and played them using Bluetooth controllers from across the house and I didn't need "Beamer" to do it. It's beside the point.
 
niteflyr said:
My understanding is that Beamer transcodes from MKV to ATV format on the fly as it plays. What have you really gained over a Handbrake encode? Just asking, not flaming.
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It only transcodes the soundtrack, the track ATV chokes upon. The ATV is often very capable of playing the MP4 or H264 video track. Handbrake does a lot, but not THAT. You always recode the video stream with HB, with the option to pass-tru the audio. So Beamer does the exact opposite of HB.

I'm not saying I can hear the difference between DTS-HDMA and DTS core. I only say I don't care to do very difficult: I rip a BR with MakeMKV, I only keep the main feature video track and the original language audio track. The results is usually an MKV 10-15GB, so I can store 240 movies on one 3TB disk for 100€, and 240 flicks is enough for the "keepers".

No need for a backup drive: the backup is the BR disk itself. If the house burns I have complete other problems: I don't care about my BR collection in that case.
I don't waste time on tagging, converting, making thumbs, adding covers etc. I can start a movie by selecting its name. Time that costs way more money than one 3TB disk. If you need a hobby, go ahead and join the topic here with the collection show-off. I just want to have a bunch of films I like to watch more than once at hand in good quality.

Oh, and OMT: what you DO see is that Apple TV's 60Hz sucks with 24p content. Judder alone is enough reason to skip the ATV and have another, thus MKV capable, media player.
 
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MagnusVonMagnum said:
Storage costs nothing? Bullcrap. If I want another 3TB drive, it's going to be 3x the cost of a single one (i.e. more like $300 which I don't call "nothing" and I'd need probably 20-30 TB to dump Blu-Rays uncompressed for 600+ movies) since I need a backup and an off-site backup to make sure my data is secure.
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3TB drives cost under $100 now.
 
StinDaWg said:
3TB drives cost under $100 now.
Click to expand...

You could have fooled me.

Just a quick search on Amazon:

-Seagate Expansion 3TB Desktop External Hard Drive USB 3.0 : $108.49

-WD My Book 3TB USB 3.0 Hard Drive with Security, Local and Cloud Backup: $119.95

-WD My Book 3TB External Hard Drive Storage USB 3.0 File Backup and Storage: $129.99

-BUFFALO DriveStation 3 TB USB 3.0 Desktop Hard Drive (HD-LC3.0U3): $135.29

-LaCie 3 TB Porsche Design P'9230 USB 3.0 (302003): $149.99

-Fantom G Force 3TB USB 3.0 External Hard Drive Black GF3B3000U: $146.53

-Toshiba 3TB Canvio Desk Desktop External Hard Drive (Black/Black) : $104.99

...on and on and on...

I keep looking and I don't see any less than $100 except with added shipping that puts it over $100 once again (e.g. $96+ $5 shipping)

I got my first 3TB drive like 3 years ago for $98. They went UP after that and have been pretty stable between $105-150 since then. 4TB drives are closer to $200. Yes, internal 3TB are a bit cheaper, but then you need a case unless you have a tower and most of us Mac people don't since Apple stopped making them.
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
You could have fooled me.

I got my first 3TB drive like 3 years ago for $98. They went UP after that and have been pretty stable between $105-150 since then. 4TB drives are closer to $200. Yes, internal 3TB are a bit cheaper, but then you need a case unless you have a tower and most of us Mac people don't since Apple stopped making them.
Click to expand...

In addition, none of those are really designed for 24x7 uptime typical of a NAS.
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
You could have fooled me.

Just a quick search on Amazon:

-Seagate Expansion 3TB Desktop External Hard Drive USB 3.0 : $108.49

-WD My Book 3TB USB 3.0 Hard Drive with Security, Local and Cloud Backup: $119.95

-WD My Book 3TB External Hard Drive Storage USB 3.0 File Backup and Storage: $129.99

-BUFFALO DriveStation 3 TB USB 3.0 Desktop Hard Drive (HD-LC3.0U3): $135.29

-LaCie 3 TB Porsche Design P'9230 USB 3.0 (302003): $149.99

-Fantom G Force 3TB USB 3.0 External Hard Drive Black GF3B3000U: $146.53

-Toshiba 3TB Canvio Desk Desktop External Hard Drive (Black/Black) : $104.99

...on and on and on...

I keep looking and I don't see any less than $100 except with added shipping that puts it over $100 once again (e.g. $96+ $5 shipping)

I got my first 3TB drive like 3 years ago for $98. They went UP after that and have been pretty stable between $105-150 since then. 4TB drives are closer to $200. Yes, internal 3TB are a bit cheaper, but then you need a case unless you have a tower and most of us Mac people don't since Apple stopped making them.
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You put in your post above that 3TB drives cost $300 which is why I was confused. Check slickdeals and you'll see they go for under $100 all the time.

http://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php?forumchoice[]=9&mode=frontpage&q=3tb&showposts=0&titleonly=1

4TB goes for $120-140
http://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php?forumchoice[]=9&q=4tb&mode=frontpage&titleonly=1
 
StinDaWg said:
You put in your post above that 3TB drives cost $300 which is why I was confused. Check slickdeals and you'll see they go for under $100 all the time.
Click to expand...

What I said was that I keep two backups for every drive (one on-site and one off-site) and thus for every 3TB media drive, I buy, I must buy two more for backups and thus it's more like $300, which isn't the world, but it's nothing to sneeze at either.

jlc1978 said:
In addition, none of those are really designed for 24x7 uptime typical of a NAS.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't watch movies 24/7 so it doesn't really matter. The drives spin-down/sleep when not in use. The Mac Mini, however stays on 24/7 and that's because Apple has yet to fix sleep mode when using the NFS network protocol (i.e. it doesn't recognize that network activity as a reason NOT to go to sleep) and that's what I use with XBMC for good reasons I'd rather not explain here. Fortunately, the Mini doesn't use much power idling, unlike my PowerMac I used to use.
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
What I said was that I keep two backups for every drive (one on-site and one off-site) and thus for every 3TB media drive, I buy, I must buy two more for backups and thus it's more like $300, which isn't the world, but it's nothing to sneeze at either.
Click to expand...
That's your choice, but completely unnecessary for most. I could see one backup if you must, but 3 drives total? These are just movies, not secret government documents.
 
StinDaWg said:
That's your choice, but completely unnecessary for most. I could see one backup if you must, but 3 drives total? These are just movies, not secret government documents.
Click to expand...

I don't just store my movies on these drives. There's also my personal photo albums scans (over a dozen large photo albums scanned and hand-cleaned up with Photoshop) and home-movie scans/edits. There's a full winter of work there I don't EVER want to do again. I don't particularly want to re-scan my DVD or BD collection again either. It's worth an extra $100 to not worry about it (i.e. the off-site backup).
 
Wow, the second page of this thread is hilarious.

MagnusVonMagnum said:
You do realize that MP4Tools does not re-encode video, right? If you just pass-through the video created by MakeMKV from a Blu-Ray with MP4Tools, your file size will be like 15-40GB!!! I've got 19 MKVs stored right now at full size and they take over well over 450GB! For a lousy 19 movies. At that rate, a 3TB drive would be filled with about 125 movies or so. I've got over 650 movies, a boat load of TV Shows and quite a few other media items on my 3TB drive and still have over 200GB left by my "lot of work" method whereby HD movies only take up 2-4GB instead of 20-40GB. The loss in video quality is usually negligible.
Click to expand...

Unless you're doing a direct stream rip with MakeMKV you're now double encoding (Source > MakeMKV > Handbrake). You know what would improve your video quality? Encoding it right the first time. Since MakeMKV can do do transcodes, why don't you just have MakeMKV encode to the size/quality ratio you want. Then you can MP4Tools remux it into an MP4 (which seems like something MakeMKV should be able to support, honestly).

MagnusVonMagnum said:
I've got two problems with MKV right now. One is that it's not supported commercially as it is viewed as a pirate format only
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I have two Sony blu-ray players here from different years and they both play MKVs fine.

SONY. The king of DRM and proprietary formats.

MagnusVonMagnum said:
Blu-Rays also typically have 4-6 more soundtracks for foreign languages almost no one uses...
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Except like, everyone who doesn't speak English. But that's only 94% of the world -- hardly anyone. :rolleyes:

You realize that many blu-rays are authored for distribution to multiple regions? They just apply a disc label and packaging appropriate for the region.
 
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