I have no respect for Detroit fans anymore

[Mav451]

Heck, I know everyone hates Lakers, and I'll agree with that b/c I hate the bandwagon fans they induce.

However, being that I supported Detroit through the finals, I start to question myself when their fans so obnoxiously and so foolishly started a fight between the players and the fans.

Watch the Sportcenter clip. You will see that Artest was calming himself by laying down while Ben Wallace had to be repeatedly restrained.

Of course, this could have all ended here. Unfortunately a grown adult, a man clearly of drinking age, throws his beer at Artest. The Detroit fan thinks he higher than the law, higher than the system, and of course, thinks he can get away with these actions w/o penalty.

Rule of the jungle. If you were at a game and had beer thrown at your face by a fan, what would you do?

I ask you, what would you do?

 

[iPegboy]

OK, in a certain respect, i understand where you are coming from. what happened tonight was inacusable (sp?). i hope whoever threw that first drink at artest gets in some serious trouble. ironically, as he has been interviewed in local TV around here (i'm in the detroit-area), the dude who artest attacked did not throw anything. and he said artest didn't throw a punch at him either, after he pleaded with him.

anyway, i'm getting sidetracked. i'm a detroit fan and it hurts to hear you say something like that. there were 20,000 + fans there tonight and about 8 of them were majorly stupid and then (there's a psychology term for this but i forget what it is), others just threw in dumping beers on them. regardless, there were most likely 50-75 fans involved total.

don't judge all detroit fans on the actions of a small minority. i am embarseed at what happened. i really wish i wake up in the morning and it never happened. but it did. and i hope many of those dumb fans get jail time and assualt charges.

BTW: after watching many replays, it looked like artest actually was trying to restrain jackson in the crowd. i mean, he's still a nut, but i am somewhat surprised he didn't flip out too more.

 

[Mav451]

Heh, that's true.

You see, I'm a MD fan (obviously), and I get TONS of flack cuz of the "FU JJ" incident, which pisses me off to no other.

Now that I've calmed down (hopefully =D), I see where you are coming from, and I'm sorry for making that blanket statement that ALL Detroit fans are like that.

Yeah, Artest is full of suprises (both good and bad); remember he led the league in T-fouls, but then last year he vastly improved? Night and day.

 

[Sun Baked]

Re: I have no respect for Detroit fans anymore

Neither do I, none of the fans urinated on the players as they left.

The players should ever go into the stands and injure any fans, that's what security and arrests are for.

And any player/coach/manager (in any sport) that attempts to injure a fans should be prosecuted just as fast and harshly as the fans.

Generally in these incidents who has more to lose when they injur someone? The player or the fan?

Generally the player can end up putting millions of dollars at risk, along with their career. While the fan may end up losing 10k dollar bills.

What is worse is when these things happen with the players, and they hurt innocent parties.

 

[Wonder Boy]

That Jermaine O'Neil Punch was something else. Direct hit, right on the chin. Serves that ass right for running onto the court in the first place.

 

[dotnina]

Ok, I didn't see the whole thing, but here's my perspective from what I did see ...
(Can someone post a link as news stories become available?)

I have no respect for the nutty fan who seemed to have started all this, but who I really have no respect for is Artest (sp?) and the other players who seemed to fuel this.

People act out of poor judgement sometimes, as we saw with the fan (and subsequently, fans). I think the team should have shown a little restraint, rather than turning it to an all-out war. Perhaps team personnel could have held the guy down until security came over. It seemed like (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the fan just threw a drink, and then the players went at him with punches. Is this basically how it started? If so, the fan is definetely at fault for starting this, and shame on him, but DOUBLE SHAME to the players for reacting in a manner so childish and vile.

 

[Mav451]

Again, i thought it was Artest until I saw the entire clip on SportsCenter. I went from "protecting" the fan, to absolutely losing my respect for the beer-throwing fans in the crowd.

Not all the Detroit fans were involved, obviously, but the few that fueled it need to be punished to the highest extent of the law.

Again, after watching the clip online and on ESPN, your opinion of "hating" Artest may change. Then again, alot of people are already Artest-haters, so I cannot change your minds then.

 

[jackieonasses]

Again, i thought it was Artest until I saw the entire clip on SportsCenter. I went from "protecting" the fan, to absolutely losing my respect for the beer-throwing fans in the crowd.

Not all the Detroit fans were involved, obviously, but the few that fueled it need to be punished to the highest extent of the law.

Again, after watching the clip online and on ESPN, your opinion of "hating" Artest may change. Then again, alot of people are already Artest-haters, so I cannot change your minds then.

Would it be somewhere on the internet? I don't have cable (my dad said high-speed, or cable tv so you know) I want to see the Jermaine o'neal punch and the beer throwing. Please?

 

[chewbaccapits]

Boo the players! Aren't they professionals?

First off, players should not charge the stands.Period. I hope that the players who hit the fans get suspended indefintely. It was amazingly sad to see that display of idoicy...Wow....

http://www.nba.com/games/20041119/INDDET/recap.html


"Former NBA player and ESPN announcer Bill Walton said under no circumstances should players react to fans' actions.

"You have to prepare yourself for every eventuality," he said. "Yes, the temptation is always there, but the discipline required to become an NBA player, the privilege and honor that goes with being an NBA player, prohibits you from ever crossing that line."


I agree..

 

[jasylonian]

first of all, bill walton is one of the dumbest sportscasters, ever. secondly, i think that it should be fairly well understood when someone says that detroit fans are the dumbest fans, ever; that we are referring to those who succumbed to the mob mentality that also occurred during the michigan state riots a few years back. it's one thing to sit upon our lofty perches and say that the players should take their lumps like perfect people, but it's quite another to be thrown into the heat of the moment and be attacked by what appears to be tens of thousands of people. in a case where fans physically assault players, the fans become fair game.

ron artest did what he needed to do. a fan assualted him without provocation and when someone does that, they obviously do not have the ability to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong. in this case, these people are extremely dangerous. with the distraction upon the floor, the likelihood that security would have had any ability to prevent further assaults upon artest is extremely unlikely. there was a frighteningly high percentage of people involved in this fracas, and i think that the players had every right to defend themselves. the entire city of detroit should be embarrassed and the palace at auburn hills should probably ban the sale of alcoholic beverages for the remainder of the season (which probably won't happen since NBA franchises can not survive without concessions) since detroit fans obviously can't handle their liquor. the only player who deserves a suspension is Ben Wallace, for being a complete a jerk and a moron. i've lost all respect for him and hope the rest of his career is a flop.

 

[MrSugar]

You can bet if I got hit with a full cup of beer in the side of the face I would jump someone too. Sometimes you have to stand up for yourself and give someone what they have coming. I would never let someone purposely deface me like that, I don't care what the situation is.

 

[jemeinc]

Where was the security ?...
Even after Artest went into the crowd & already made his way back to the floor fans were roaming freely about...

Being professional against verbal abuse is one thing, but when it's physical abuse, & there is the lack of security that was in place last night, a person has the right to defend themselves... Those fans were out of line, they provoked it, & kept it going...

Sad day for basketball, because it really is the last sport where the spectators can actually be right with the players, side by side... That'll change by the start of next season...

 

[Thomas Veil]

Excuse me, folks, but there's plenty of blame to go around here, including Artest.

You do not leap into the stands to attack fans, especially over something as dumb as a thrown drink. If Artest wanted to show his manhood, he could have leapt to his feet and challenged the fan to come down and face him -- and even that wouldn't have been smart, but I could've understood it. But since when is jumping into the stands to take on fans justified? That's what security is there for.

The whole first part of the riot -- the part that just involved the players -- was bad, but it calmed down and would've stayed calmed down if not for that idiot fan. That guy should be busted for inciting a riot. He should get jail time, if for no other reason than as a warning to other hot-headed "fans". He should also be banned from NBA games for life. The moron who threw the chair -- if they can identify him from the tapes -- ditto. Same for those two dumbbells who came onto the floor to "take on" Artest and O'Neal. On the other hand, Artest and O'Neal should not have been stupid enough to throw the first punch at those fans. But this is what happens in a riot; people get caught up in the heat of the moment.

I'd have to see the footage a few more times to opine on most of the fans who were involved. Perhaps some of them were trying to control the others, but again, that's security's job. If you're in the stands and something like this breaks out, you take your family and head for higher seats or the exits. You don't make it worse by getting involved.

Yeah, there was lots of stupidity on the part of many people. This was a classic case of everybody involved losing their minds.

Watch Artest, Wallace, O'Neal and Stephen Jackson get suspended for the rest of the year and heavily fined. But I hope it doesn't end there. I hope a number of fans get prosecuted, with some resulting time in the slammer.

And watch one of the NBA's changes involve security (or cops) carrying tear gas with them at games.

 

[wdlove]

The players should restrain themselves since they are supposedly the professionals. They should stay out of the stands period not matter what. Both fans and players should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Any season ticket holders involved should be banned for the season.

 

[Inspector Lee]

first of all, bill walton is one of the dumbest sportscasters, ever.

First of all, Bill Walton is a former player who undoubtedly took fan abuse during his years in the league so any insight he and other former players provide is significant regardless of whether you like him or not, whether he dogs your team or not.

Second, the city of Detroit seems to be taking the brunt of the criticism for this melee when in actuality, the arena is located in Auburn Hills (a suburb) and those courtside seats run easily a grand each.

Third, this is a sad sad day for sports fans nationwide. There used to be intimacy with the athletes. I remember sitting courtside as a kid when the Pistons played at The Silverdome and it was an experience I will never forget - getting autographs, talking with players, hearing the coaches, etc. It meant something to me as a kid to interact with these super-athletes. Pretty soon the field of play will be surrounded by a giant fence. You already see that in college football where fans used to line the end zones. Future generations won't get those opportunities because of a handful of idiots.

Fourth, the Pistons and Pacers next play in front of the nation on Christmas Day.

A column that happen to agree with is here

 

[Mr_Ed]

First off, players should not charge the stands.Period. I hope that the players who hit the fans get suspended indefintely. It was amazingly sad to see that display of idoicy...Wow....

http://www.nba.com/games/20041119/INDDET/recap.html


"Former NBA player and ESPN announcer Bill Walton said under no circumstances should players react to fans' actions.

"You have to prepare yourself for every eventuality," he said. "Yes, the temptation is always there, but the discipline required to become an NBA player, the privilege and honor that goes with being an NBA player, prohibits you from ever crossing that line."
...

I agree completely. Regardless of the audience members' behavior (which WAS wrong!) the players should have exercised some self control. The kind of money those guys get to toss a ball around a court should buy a hell of a lot of that 'self control,' among other things. Everyone is saying they have never seen an incident this ugly in an NBA game before. I think you will see more as time passes because I just think too many of the guys playing today are overpaid, spoiled brats. I'm afraid the days when an NBA player had something to offer in the way of substance and character beyond their ability to play basketball are long gone.

 

[Koodauw]

Bill Walton must of takin a ton of beatings to damage his brain to the point he uters the nonsence that he does. He is a horrible announcer.

As for Artest, someone threw a beer at him. I am sure he just went to go talk to the guy, and offer to buy him a new beer. Just like Pedro.

And as for O'neil. He is my new hero. He clocked that guy so hard. Thats was better than any punch i've ever seen in a boxing match.

And lets be real. The fans provoked it. The players reacted. The beer throwing got things crazy. If someone intentially threw a b eer at you, 9 out of 10 people would go after the guy. So why all the "Well they're Pro atheletes."

 

[Timelessblur]

The rules for the players are simple. The can not react to verbile abuse in any way. The 2nd some one thows something or comes ot attack them all bets are off. THe players are in there full right to protect them selves.

 

[knicksfan58]

anyone who things that a thrown drink is justification for assaulting a fan is ridiculous. such matters should be left to security personell and personell alone. the fan should be punished, but by the law and not by artest, who is obviously too easily perturbed and acted like a total thug. why can't he simply deal with the fact that a drink was thrown at him. he wasn't punched. he wasn't attacked. some beer spilled on his jersey. Big Deal. A man who can't deal with that and maintain composure is clearly incapable of crunch-time, clear-headed decision making. Anyone who defends Artest is the same in that sense.

 

[Mr_Ed]

...
And lets be real. The fans provoked it. The players reacted. The beer throwing got things crazy. If someone intentially threw a b eer at you, 9 out of 10 people would go after the guy. So why all the "Well they're Pro atheletes."

It's not that these are pro athletes, it's that these were pro athletes in the middle of a league sanctioned game. If Artest was walking down the street and someone hit him with a cup of beer, and Artesl clocked him, I would say "Good for Artest. Self defense. Throw the other ****** in jail." That's not what happened here.

The rules for the players are simple. The can not react to verbile abuse in any way. The 2nd some one thows something or comes ot attack them all bets are off. THe players are in there full right to protect them selves.

I beg to differ. Refer to NBA rules here, here, and here.

 

[frescies]

Finally its settled...

Sports are primitive and unnecessary

 

[PlaceofDis]

Finally its settled...

Sports are primitive and unnecessary

i concur!

 

[jemeinc]

I agree completely. Regardless of the audience members' behavior (which WAS wrong!) the players should have exercised some self control. The kind of money those guys get to toss a ball around a court should buy a hell of a lot of that 'self control,' among other things. .

Verbal abuse is one thing- physical abuse is another, regardless of how much money they make... Look at it this way- I'm pretty sure there are people who feel your overpaid- just like all of us- so because, in some peoples opinion, you're overpaid that means the next presentation you do if some drunk hits you in the head with a bottle of beer you have to figure that's why you get paid the big bucks ?...

Y'know- nobody's mentioning the fact that there was no security there.. If there was, after Artest came back to the court there wouldn't be any fans milling about on the court... That guy that O'neal & Artest lit up was out on the court with his fist clenched- it's not a stretch to say those guys' safety was in danger...

Everyone was wrong in this: the fans, the players, the Pistons, & whoever is responsible for security at these events...

 

[Mr_Ed]

Verbal abuse is one thing- physical abuse is another, regardless of how much money they make... Look at it this way- I'm pretty sure there are people who feel your overpaid- just like all of us- so because, in some peoples opinion, you're overpaid that means the next presentation you do if some drunk hits you in the head with a bottle of beer you have to figure that's why you get paid the big bucks ?...
...

It's not just the fact that they get paid a lot. In their case, that pay is tied to a set of rules they must follow. Refer to my other post to find the NBA rule concerning players going into the stands.

Y'know- nobody's mentioning the fact that there was no security there.. If there was, after Artest came back to the court there wouldn't be any fans milling about on the court... That guy that O'neal & Artest lit up was out on the court with his fist clenched- it's not a stretch to say those guys' safety was in danger...
...

You have a point about lax security playing a part in just how out of hand things got. There should not have been any fans on the court. But that happened after the players went into the stands in the first place. That was inexcusable, regardless of what the spectators did.

 

[paulypants]

The fans should never get involved with the players the way they did last night. However, moreso, players being payed what they are to play the game should act like the "professionals" that they claim to be, unfortunately most of these guys are primitive street thugs who pretend to be professional, sure they can play a game well, but beyond that their mental capacity does not lend itself to determining the common sense in what is right and what is wrong, I'm surprised none of them grabbed a gat, hate to put it this way but they prove my point time after time in a myriad of arenas, strengthening their own stereotypes cause it's "cool" to act like a gangsta...