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I have no respect for Detroit fans anymore

Several Pacers went into the stands to accost fans who had thrown things. Jackson climbed into the seats and landed a roundhouse right that floored a fan next to another fan who had thrown a plastic beer bottle at Artest, hitting him in the face.
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If the player cannot even hit the person that abused them... I hope they are landed with criminal assault charges, and that the guy also files a high dollar civil lawsuit against the player and the team.

They deserve to be tossed for their innability to hit the correct target.

They're paid millions to hit a target, and they miss when they intentionally try to injure fan, talk about cracking under pressure. :rolleyes:
 
Pistons-Pacers-Fan Brawl

Edit--oops, I didn't see this thread..

How long would you suspend the participants for? Ben Wallace is clearly not considered as guilty as he is allowed to play tonight while the others are not. He'll start serving his suspention tomorrow. After all, he only pushed players. Artest, S. Jackson, and J. O'Neal punched fans. O'Neal didn't go into the stands, however. Artest went into the stands first. I think these suspentions are going to be big. And will the suspentions be without pay?

My suggestions:

Artest-41 games
Jackson- 30 games
O'Neal- 20 games
Wallace- 3 games

all without pay. You don't punch fans.
 
I suspect Artest will be at least until the end of the season, if not permanently. I'm not sure he'll mind, though - after all, he has his rap music career to consider.

I didn't quite see what Jackson did, but he'll probably be out for almost as long. The others weren't nearly as flagrant. I hope the fans who threw things at Artest and the other players are banned from life from attending NBA games and charged with criminal offenses to the maximum extent of the law.

The players were stupid for going into the stands and punching, but the fans were equally guilty of provoking them.
 
Several observations from watching a number of the video clips several times:

Artest should know better than to head into the stands but he appeared to be hit in the face or neck by a blue plastic cup in addition to whatever liquid was in it. Verbal assaults and liquid throwing are one thing but when solid objects start raining down from the stands I'd have a hard time holding back.

The person who threw the cup (blue jersey and white cap) that got it all started has to be one of the biggest chickensh*ts I've seen in awhile. When Artest headed up into the stands he passed right by him and the guy stood back and did nothing. When the scrum that followed started and he was directly behind Artest he then took 2 or 3 shots at Artest's head from behind. Coward.

Did anyone see the young boy crying in the stands after the fights? In one video shot the boy is being comforted by an adult. After re-watching the video clips several times it appears that this adult was the same person taking swings at an Indiana player's head from behind moments earlier. Niiiiicceeee.

When a fan runs onto the field/court of play in such a situation they're asking for whatever they get. Everyone seems to cheer this when a NFL player lays out a fan running on the field for attention.

What about when Indiana players were trying to get out through the tunnel and the fans were ambushing them from the stands above. The one person who stood out to me was the woman in a pink hat who had an almost full 16 oz. soda bottle in her hand that she fake pumped several times until she saw a good target who she could fling it at. Hope she spends some time defending herself in court.

How about the Indiana player that came back out of the tunnel brandishing one of those plastic dustpans on a pole. He didn't hit anyone with it but he sure looked riduculous flailing around with it.

All in all a sad day. I just hope that the fans get what they deserve too, I bet the players won't get off lightly. Remember the snowball incident at an NFL game a few years back (NY Giants or Jets) and how the police went after everyone they could identify? Will Detroit officials do the same?
 
agreenster said:
Can anyone post a link to the video? The one at NBA.com requires a paid membership. :mad:
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All I saw was the punch that landed the on his ass, and the pile of people.

Of course these guys are quite a bit bigger than the little twerp that got punched, I would want to be hit by a basketball player or Mike Tyson.

Edit: Sorry didn't see the full NBA footage either. :(
 
well, now that indefinite suspensions have been handed out, i still believe that justice is not served unless ben wallace receives the greatest penalty. the only reason i could justify penalizing artest and jackson is for going after the wrong guy (which, admittedly, is pretty dumb). the guy in the blue with the cap should be booked for inciting a riot and assault and i really hope he takes some in the pokey. jermaine o'neal did everything he should have, including popping the guy on the floor, but i don't think he deserves anything more than a game. in the end, this all comes down to ben wallace. none of this happens if he doesn't act like a total jerk throughout this entire thing. when tempers start to cool, ben wallace does his best to inflame them and i think he should probably be charged with inciting a riot as well.
 
Absent from the list of miscreants is one Rasheed Wallace. 2-3 years ago he would have been leading the way but seems to have gotten it together and good for him.

Heard on the radio that the Pacers have to dress 8 tonight or they'll forfeit the game. 3 guys are suspended (out of 12) and 3 others are injured and can't go. 2 of the latter will dress but not play in order to give them 8 so they only have 6 guys who can give them minutes. If there is foul trouble, injuries, etc., I don't know what will happen if it becomes 5 on 4. Maybe Bird will suit up. :D

This will take you to a page with several links (Real, wmv, etc.). This is the best footage I've seen on the web so far. The video on the detroit news stinks.

Video
 
At least the police/DA have had their press conference now, and said they will hand out any criminal charges after going over the tapes.

They took the tapes from all the cameras, so it's a lot of footage and camera angles -- and will probably take them quite awhile to review.
 
Last night I was kinda bored, and I saw there was a game on tv. I hadn't watched basketball for probably 4 months, and this is what I come back to... The whole situation was horrible. The players and the fans. Players should NEVER go into the stands. That's what shocked me. Fights were breaking out all over the court. Players were going 10+ rows into the stands. Totally unacceptable.

Those fans were being horrible as well, but we can't make the over-reaching statement that all detroit fans are horrible? What about the ones who didn't partake? Who quietly left the building? They do exist, despite what you might think, and these generalizations are uncalled for.
 
frank5050 said:
What about when Indiana players were trying to get out through the tunnel and the fans were ambushing them from the stands above. The one person who stood out to me was the woman in a pink hat who had an almost full 16 oz. soda bottle in her hand that she fake pumped several times until she saw a good target who she could fling it at. Hope she spends some time defending herself in court....

All in all a sad day. I just hope that the fans get what they deserve too, I bet the players won't get off lightly. Remember the snowball incident at an NFL game a few years back (NY Giants or Jets) and how the police went after everyone they could identify? Will Detroit officials do the same?
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Yeah, that fan behavior was horrible. At that point all the Pacers were trying to do was get to the tunnel, and the fans were getting completely out of control.

I was glad to see the police took lots of videotape from the security cameras. I'm sure they'll identify and prosecute the fans they can identify.
 
Apple Hobo said:
Smugness and elitism are unnecessary as well.
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Hmm... You could subjectively say that was smugness and elitism... I disagree but I'll give you that. However, if quantified somehow, it would be far less smug and elitist than the degree to which sports are primitive.
 
I don't think there is a single blameless party here. Not Wallace, not the Pacers, not the fans, not the arena security. I think they are *all* absolutely at fault. That said, if I were in Artest's shoes, I would have done what he did. You can sit at your computer and talk all you like about having restraint, but when you pile physical assault on top of the verbal abuse that these players take from drunk, moronic fans all day long, I can totally understand him snapping. I really don't think we would expect a private citizen to not react in that situation, and in fact, if it happened on the street, a physical response would probably be legally justified. It's a double standard to say that a ball player has to take that when you or I wouldn't. I still think he should face some small suspension because going in to the stands needs to be discouraged, but he's human and most humans would snap after that provocation.
 
I bet if Michael Jordan had a beer thrown on him during a game, he would have shaken his head at the crowd and just left the arena or something. These guys are hot-headed and pricks with paychecks so big that it clouds their actual worth. They actually think they can beat people up and get away with it. Ban them from the NBA as far as I'm concerned.
 
QCassidy352 said:
I don't think there is a single blameless party here. Not Wallace, not the Pacers, not the fans, not the arena security. I think they are *all* absolutely at fault. That said, if I were in Artest's shoes, I would have done what he did. You can sit at your computer and talk all you like about having restraint, but when you pile physical assault on top of the verbal abuse that these players take from drunk, moronic fans all day long, I can totally understand him snapping. I really don't think we would expect a private citizen to not react in that situation, and in fact, if it happened on the street, a physical response would probably be legally justified. It's a double standard to say that a ball player has to take that when you or I wouldn't. I still think he should face some small suspension because going in to the stands needs to be discouraged, but he's human and most humans would snap after that provocation.
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Actually one of the lawyers watching the thing, sat there and watched the criminal charges ring up.

Basically Artest committed a criminal act (assault) -- if somebody yells at you, or throws a plastic cup at you -- you don't have a legal right to punch them.

Your legal right is to walk away.

The lawyer further stated that Artest's legal defense team will claim self defense, however, Artest actually threw the first punch and hit the wrong person (if he turns out to be the wrong person.)

It's a bit hard to claim self defense, when the response was well beyond the agression and against the wrong person.

It's a little hard to claim the plastic cup filled with beer can can serious injury, though a DA did file an assault with a deadly object against the baseball fan that threw the cellphone.

But a basketball player is a huge person, them attacking a 160 lb person is quite an unbalanced fight.
 
agreenster said:
I bet if Michael Jordan had a beer thrown on him during a game, he would have shaken his head at the crowd and just left the arena or something. These guys are hot-headed and pricks with paychecks so big that it clouds their actual worth. They actually think they can beat people up and get away with it. Ban them from the NBA as far as I'm concerned.
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But you don't think that any of the fans should be held accountable, responsible for their actions? Fans should get away with this stuff all the time shouldn't they? Hot-headed, drunken fans should get away with throwing objects, beer, bottles, food on the court right? Right?

Maybe fans should be allowed to bring guns and be able to shoot at the players they don't like. Of course, the players will be at fault if they try to defend themselves. Of course.
 
I'll say this: if you throw something at someone, and hit them, while in the midst of a fight, and after you've been yelling at them, you deserve a beating, for being a complete and utter ****tard.

And I think it's about time to stop selling alcohol at sporting events. Ever been in the bleachers at Fenway during a Red Sox/Yankees game? It's not pretty... :(
 
Chip NoVaMac said:
Surprising to see so many defending Artest whom seems to have a history of bad sportsmanship.
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Oh, now you cannot defend a person in an unrelated incident because of his/her history? How ignorant is that? :eek:




I think that this happened because a lot of things went wrong. They should have this and they should have that.... after all they are humans and if you had been just pushed in the face and were trying to calm down and then are hit by an object that you cannot identify clearly but must have had quite some impact since it was full you would've just walked away?
And after all even the fan said that Artest did not hit him after he told him that he was the wrong one.
Should he be fined and suspended? Yes. But not for more than a couple of games. After all, the only thing I think he did wrong was enter the stands.
 
Mav451 said:
But you don't think that any of the fans should be held accountable, responsible for their actions? Fans should get away with this stuff all the time shouldn't they? Hot-headed, drunken fans should get away with throwing objects, beer, bottles, food on the court right? Right?
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If you re-read my post you'll find I didnt say a single thing about the fans. I guess I was just making a comment about how immature these players are compared to the classier players of previous eras.

Please excuse me for not providing a comprehensive post explaining my entire view of the situation, so feel free to assume my opinion about the spectators in the situation based on zero input from me.

Gawd.
 
Mav451 said:
I ask you, what would you do?
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A long time ago my dad had an "issue" with one black man. From there on out no black was welcome in our house, all blacks were "****", they should be shipped back to Africa. Such a waste of common sense, and clearly racist. To hate all Detroit fans becasue of a few idiots is an equal waste. I'd be curious how others who feel the way you do react to our other human brothers. Not the same? Sure it is.
No offense brother.
 
Right

dotnina said:
It seemed like (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the fan just threw a drink, and then the players went at him with punches. Is this basically how it started? If so, the fan is definetely at fault for starting this, and shame on him, but DOUBLE SHAME to the players for reacting in a manner so childish and vile.
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It started with a fan throwing a full paper cup of beer at Artest. And as others like Thomas Veil have so articulately pointed out, under no circumstances should players rush into the stands to attack the fans in a rage.

IMHO the security is partially to blame too because they should have immediately gone into the stands and arrested/ejected the original beer thrower!
 
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