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I Hope the Butterfly Keyboard Makes a Comeback

smirking

smirking

macrumors 601
Original poster
Aug 31, 2003
4,017
4,103
Silicon Valley
I'm test driving an M1 MBP right now while my 2018 MBP is getting service.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I miss the butterfly keyboard and hope Apple's able to iron out whatever it was that was causing problems with that keyboard and bring it back eventually.

I've got another 10 days to decide if I'm going to stick with my new M1 or not. I'm currently leaning toward no, but not just on the basis of the keyboard. I can easily slap a compact mechanical on top for long use and problem solved.
 
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I never realized how bad the butterfly was until I was helping a friend with his MBP with one. Before that I had only typed on one in a store for a few seconds. I found the experience horrible and was glad I never had to deal with one. Beyond the reliability problems, the feel just didn't work for me.
 
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glenthompson said:
I never realized how bad the butterfly was until I was helping a friend with his MBP with one. Before that I had only typed on one in a store for a few seconds. I found the experience horrible and was glad I never had to deal with one. Beyond the reliability problems, the feel just didn't work for me.
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They take some getting used to, but once you've adapted to them, they're surprisingly comfortable to type on. If you only typed on it for a few minutes, you will absolutely hate it. I absolutely hated it with a passion at first and the only reason I bought a MBP was because my previous MBP was so old that I couldn't stretch it out much longer. I hated that keyboard so much at first that I devised a way to put a mechanical keyboard on top.

Once I got used to it and developed a lighter stroke to my typing, I started to really like it. It was tactile, not too loud, and was very easy on my RSI affected hands.

It goes without saying that many people never got used to it even after a couple of years and it's not for everyone.
 
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Apple_Robert said:
I don't see Apple doing round two of the Butterfly keyboard.
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I could see them doing it if they had a future device that absolutely needed to be ultra flat, but only if they can iron out whatever was causing them to be glitchy. I doubt they'd want to bring back the headache of bad PR or service demands.
 
smirking said:
They take some getting used to, but once you've adapted to them, they're surprisingly comfortable to type on.
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No. and they are a poorly designed ticking time bomb. So glad I dumped my 2017 back on Apple for an even swap M1 Air. Please post photos of the expression on your face when your keyboard dies outside of the 4 year repair window. There is a reason for this webpage. Bookmark it. 😀

Keyboard Service Program for MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro - Apple Support

Keyboard Service Program for MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro
support.apple.com
 
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4743913 said:
No. and they are a poorly designed ticking time bomb.
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I've had three laptops with them now. One had temporary problems and one had permanent problems.

They have build problems. No argument there, but... I. Still. Like. Them. and I hope they find some way of doing it better in the future.
 
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I’m definitely with the OP in terms of loving the butterfly keyboard. Whether I was lucky with mine on my MacBook Pro 13 compared with others I don’t know but the new keyboard on my latest 16” MacBook Pro feels mushy and a real step back. Still I appreciate we’re all different so fingers crossed Apple continue to improve further.
 
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Well, after 10 days with my new M1 MBP, I've adjusted my typing mechanics to work better on it. I rather like Apple's latest version of the scissor keyboard. At least while it's new, it's better than the scissor keyboards of past MBPs that I've had.

I still like the butterfly keyboard plenty too though and I'll end up back on that soon enough. I've really enjoyed this M1 MBP I've been test driving while my 2018 was getting service, but it's just a bit short of what I need at this time. The future is bright for the Mac and I'm looking forward to it.
 
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smirking said:
They take some getting used to, but once you've adapted to them, they're surprisingly comfortable to type on. If you only typed on it for a few minutes, you will absolutely hate it. I absolutely hated it with a passion at first and the only reason I bought a MBP was because my previous MBP was so old that I couldn't stretch it out much longer. I hated that keyboard so much at first that I devised a way to put a mechanical keyboard on top.

Once I got used to it and developed a lighter stroke to my typing, I started to really like it. It was tactile, not too loud, and was very easy on my RSI affected hands.

It goes without saying that many people never got used to it even after a couple of years and it's not for everyone.
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That's me: I still hate the butterfly keyboard with passion after almost five years of usage.

I never was someone to hammer on the keys, but the minimal key travel of the butterfly keyboard always felt awful nevertheless. This and the reliability issues are absolute dealbreakers for me.
 
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Janichsan said:
That's me: I still hate the butterfly keyboard with passion after almost five years of usage.
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Different strokes for different folks, yeah? TBH, I like a wide range of keyboards. I own about three dozen. I like most of them, but each one is someone's favorite and another person's most hated.

Janichsan said:
I never was someone to hammer on the keys, but the minimal key travel of the butterfly keyboard always felt awful nevertheless. This and the reliability issues are absolute dealbreakers for me.
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I've had two laptops with that keyboard. The first one had temporary issues, but ended up fine. The second one had lasting glitches. I don't pound the keys either.

My wife on the other hand is the axe murderer of typists. She has an MBA with the butterfly keyboard. No problems at all. Other people have speculated that heat may play a role in the problems and my experiences would support that belief that as my wife's laptop takes way more physical abuse, but doesn't get fried running dev servers, compiling code, and processing RAW photos like mine.
 
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Though I didn’t love the butterfly keyboard, I didn’t hate it. But, I also never experienced any issues with the keyboard across the range of Mac’s I owned with one.
 
smirking said:
They take some getting used to, but once you've adapted to them, they're surprisingly comfortable to type on. If you only typed on it for a few minutes, you will absolutely hate it. I absolutely hated it with a passion at first and the only reason I bought a MBP was because my previous MBP was so old that I couldn't stretch it out much longer. I hated that keyboard so much at first that I devised a way to put a mechanical keyboard on top.

Once I got used to it and developed a lighter stroke to my typing, I started to really like it. It was tactile, not too loud, and was very easy on my RSI affected hands.

It goes without saying that many people never got used to it even after a couple of years and it's not for everyone.
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I tried it for a full month and never got used to it. I like at least a little key travel and apparently so do a lot of people ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
smirking said:
I've had two laptops with that keyboard. The first one had temporary issues, but ended up fine. The second one had lasting glitches. I don't pound the keys either.
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I used to swear by cherry MX browns until my first interaction with the butterfly switch. As you said above, it does require some getting used to, but once unlocked I found that the bursty nature of typing with it fit my mental processes.

Nevertheless, my macbook spends alot of time docked and the external apple magic keyboards feels clunky to use then.

Do you have any pointers for keyboards similar to the one on the macbook ?

Thank you in advance.
 
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JahBoolean said:
Nevertheless, my macbook spends alot of time docked and the external apple magic keyboards feels clunky to use then.

Do you have any pointers for keyboards similar to the one on the macbook ?
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This is going to sound counterintuitive, but another keyboard that I love for its feel is like the polar opposite of the butterfly keyboard. They're electrocapacitive switches and they're hard to find.

What's an electrocapacitive switch like? It has about as much travel as an MX switch, but the action is buttery smooth and the heavier versions are tactile.

It's often mentioned with mechanicals, but it's technically not a mechanical switch. It's this weird hybrid switch that has a plunger that pushes on a silicone dome that then pushes against a finely coiled spring, and then it activates against the PCB.

The premium model of electrocapacitives are called Topres and they're pretty expensive, but I prefer a clone model usually sold as NiZ Plums, but only if you find one at 55g (which are hard to find). I had to buy a 45g NiZ Plum and mod if myself to get 55g switches. NiZ Plums used to be pretty inexpensive, but I don't think that's the case anymore.

I think the reason why I find them a surprisingly good pairing with butterfly switches is that both types of keyboards favor a light touch, but are tactile.

If you have an MX board with swappable switches, you most likely know there's a very deep rabbit hole of exotic MX switches you could experiment with. I've tried quite a few and I find that in the end they're still MX switches. The ones that emphasize tactility all just feel like variants of MX Browns to me... which I actually like.

The closest MX switch I can think of to the feel of an electrocapacitive would be Halo Trues. They have a firm feel with a long rubbery tactile bump and you don't get the trap door effect where the switch totally collapses after you hit the actuation point.

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smirking said:
I think the reason why I find them a surprisingly good pairing with butterfly switches is that both types of keyboards favor a light touch, but are tactile.
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I could not have thought of a better way to put the feeling into words.

The shape of the switch is reminiscent of those found on my old A1048 Apple Keyboard.

I will definitely give it a try if I happen to find it again.
 
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Hankster said:
I had three laptops with the butterfly keyboard. All three broke. The feel is fine. I can type on whatever, but just the durability is horrific.
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I'm a pretty proficient and light typist. I type fast, but don't punish my keyboards and I've had problems with some of my MBP butterfly keyboards. My wife is an axe murderer of a typist. You almost think she's trying to break every keyboard she puts her hands on.

Her MBA with butterfly keys? Not a problem. So unfair.
 
JahBoolean said:
The shape of the switch is reminiscent of those found on my old A1048 Apple Keyboard.
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Ok, if you liked the A01048, then I think you'll enjoy a NiZ Plum. I only sort of liked the A1048. I liked how silky it felt at first, but it got stiff and scratchy once I put some miles on it. Electrocapcitives aren't prone to wearing down like that. They retain that silky smooth stroke even after a lot of use.
 
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