I know this is sneaky but..

Discussion in 'MacBook Air' started by docgerrard, Jul 23, 2011.

  1. docgerrard thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Jul 21, 2011
    #101
    Well in most cases that makes sense. But when there is already a 30% profit margin on a product, there is no need for that.

    After all of those links I have posted for you, you are absolutely out of your mind if you think Apple even comes close to losing money for doing this, you are OUT OF YOUR MIND.

    Also, please get it out of your head that I am somehow cheating Apple. Their policy clearly states that if I am in any way unsatisfied with my product, I can return it within 14 days.

    EDIT: We don't have to keep doing this if you want. I understand that you may think this is unethical, and I am completely fine with that. It is NOT EVEN CLOSE to as bad as you are making it out to be though.
     
  2. bigp9998 macrumors regular

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    Dec 21, 2007
    #102
    Enough with the pathetic excuses. You're right, it's not the end of the world. Yes, you're following the policy, but you're also a money-grubbing weasel who is increasing the cost of the product for the rest of us. Not wanting to pay tax does not mean you are unsatisfied with the product. I'm not sure who taught you that taking unjustly is okay as long as the person you are taking from has more money than you, but I think you need a new moral compass.
     
  3. docgerrard thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #103
    u mad?
     
  4. s.hasan546 macrumors 6502

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    Feb 26, 2011
    Location:
    NY
    #104
    omfg can you stop with your sanctimonious crap? companies build this into the financial calculations they use for price setting. For example, best buy gives me 45 days to return anything, which technically costs them more money, however, i spend so much with them it makes up for it. Apple does the same thing. They understand people buy apple products for their product quality and customer service. Not having a return policy like this would hurt Apple more than it would help. Also Ive seen genius's replace shattered iPhone's for free. Technically your paying for this too with higher prices. OMFG they should stop doing this too. Anyone who got a free repair from Apple is EVILLLL!!! :rolleyes:

    Also taking advantage of a tax free weekend isn't unjust, it's actually stupid to even mention that it is "unjust", States do this for a reason.
     
  5. snberk103 macrumors 603

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    #105
    You know, docgerrard - I actually backed you up several pages ago. You are correct that you are using existing policies, and you are not deceiving anyone to take advantage of them.

    But you shoulda just stopped there. Because you then keep justifying yourself with (to paraphrase) 'if it was unethical, it doesn't matter because Apple is so hugely profitable'. And that is where we disagree. Unethical is unethical. It is just as bad to steal from Walmart as from the local corner store (and to be clear - I don't think you are stealing in this case).

    But I think that is where you are getting a lot of pushback from other posters, because you are implying (if not actually saying it) that is OK to steal from Apple due to their profits - but that you are not stealing in this case. This may not be what you are trying to say... but that is the attitude that is coming across.

    I said that too, earlier... though perhaps with a little less, um "drama". :D

    But you are absolutely correct. Companies take a hit on a few, maybe not quite justified, returns in order to sell way way more units that never get returned. Heck some companies sell stuff at a loss just to get customers into the store. It's why the milk is at the very far back corner of the grocery store....
     
  6. s.hasan546 macrumors 6502

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    Feb 26, 2011
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    NY
    #106
    lol sorry about the drama, maybe i got a little carried away :D.

    ALso i agree too. Companies like Walmart showed how selling a few things at a loss generate massive amounts of business. I remember talking to a walmart manager who mentioned how selling the iPhone 4 for $147 in stores only more than tripled their iPhones sales (losing money on these), however, a lot of these customers also bought 20 other things while waiting for the iPhone to activate; etc.
     
  7. bigp9998 macrumors regular

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    Dec 21, 2007
    #107
    If you read my responses throughout the thread, you'll notice that I have no problem with taking advantage of the tax-free weekend. None whatsoever. The state gov't puts the policy in place to encourage sales. What I have a problem with is buying a computer two weeks ahead of the tax-free weekend with the preconceived intention of returning it 2 weeks later and buying the exact same model again just to avoid the tax that you could have avoided in the first place by simply waiting two weeks. If you want the computer now, buy it now. If you want the tax-free computer, wait 2 weeks. It's not difficult.
     
  8. docgerrard thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Jul 21, 2011
    #108
    i guess i also got a bit carried away. it definitely is unethical to steal from walmart, apple and the local corner shop. however, obviously things are not all black and white and there are different degrees of being unethical (or ethical) and stealing from apple is definitely not as unethical as stealing from the local shop. i can go into detail on justifying this if you want.

    regardless, i don't think i am stealing, something we both agree with :)

    well i should say i don't think i would have been stealing, since i'm not doing this anymore lol
     
  9. snberk103 macrumors 603

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    #109
    And that is where we disagree. Unethical is unethical. Or as my grandmother used to say (when she wasn't talking about the Brooklyn bridge)... 'If it doesn't belong to you, it belongs to somebody else.'

    In this case you are clearly within the guidelines (White?) .... but if you were not within the guidelines, then it makes no difference whether it was the corner store or Apple. (Black?) Ethics is entirely personal, and the wealth of the "victim" has nothing to do with it. One day you hopefully realize that.... but it takes a few years, admittedly.
     
  10. iluvmacmre macrumors newbie

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    Aug 4, 2011
    #110
    Show your receipt during tax free weekend

    I understand why you did it. Only thing you have to do is take your receipt to the Apple Store and they will credit your account with the taxes that you previously paid as long as it is within the 14 days. I already checked.
     
  11. harpyeagle macrumors regular

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    Mar 18, 2011
    #111
    Could've been avoided

    THIS ...would have served the OP better if he took some extra effort to do this himself by calling the seller if his intention was saving extra bucks.

    I bought mine from BestBuy and plan to do exactly this.
     
  12. mayassa macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    #112
    No big deal buy it return it tell them you want to buy the same one back. If it has the right ssd and screen. If not get a different one. No one can tell you that your being sneaky after half these people returned there laptops for a different drive since they both work.
     
  13. bigdrizzle13 macrumors newbie

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    Aug 9, 2011
    #113
    For the record, I owned roughly 10 different macbook air 13 inch laptops for around 110 days, returned them every 11-13 days, and bought another one either in that same trip or the next day. Not one of them every had any problems, and apple happily took all of them back, and it was usually even the same clerk who helped with the return process. I told them plainly, "It's an awesome computer, I'm just not sure if I want to keep it yet. I plan to buy another one very shortly." They would respond with "No problem!". I ever asked several times, "Aren't you guys going losing a lot of money every time I do this?" and they usually responded with "Apple has plenty of money, they don't need more money, but they do need more satisfied customers."

    Apple DOES NOT care if you do this type of thing. I used the same CC and Apple ID every time, so they could easily have cut me off if they wanted. Ultimately, in the small chance that I end up keeping (or forgetting to return) #10 or #100, they have just gained a customer who will ultimately spend a lot more on them in the future (in software, accessories, and future computer purchases). And that totally worked on me, I will give them more of my money in the future. Also, Best Buy has a 30 day no questions asked policy on most stuff and 14 days on things like laptops (or if you are a platinum rewards member like me, its 45 days on everything). If you frequent BestBuy as much as I do, you could easily keep a product for a year and never pay for it. (and yes, I have done that before).

    If you want to say "You shouldn't do this, this is unethical" keep in mind that I am not stealing from anyone, hurting anyone, or making anyone's life worse. Maybe best buy loses money off me personally because I return stuff too often, but they gain a lot more by allowing for this system (like getting me in their store every few weeks to look at all the new stuff, getting advertising on forums like this, keeping me loyal if I do need to buy and keep a product, and plenty of other things) If their stuff is too expensive because "I drive prices up by returning stuff a lot" then quit complaining and don't shop at apple or bestbuy. Go buy from a store that has lower prices because they don't allow returns. If no such store exists, sit down and think about why that is...

    Can't wait to hear some feedback about this.


    EDIT:
    And whoever said it was "unethical" to want to return a laptop to save $140 dollars from tax, you are either stupidly insane or insanely stupid.
     
  14. eyespii macrumors 6502

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    Mar 8, 2008
    #114
    While you most certainly are not breaking any laws of any kind, I would say it's time to move out of mom's basement and get a real job. I can't imagine that any productive member of society would feel ok about doing this and would have the time and energy for it too.

    Most people I know would be downright embarrassed to do what you do, yet you seem to be quite proud of yourself for clearly abusing the system.
     
  15. bigdrizzle13, Aug 19, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011

    bigdrizzle13 macrumors newbie

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    Aug 9, 2011
    #115

    That is fine with me, I have no problem if that is your (or "a lot of people you know"'s) opinion of me, but why would you call it "abusing" the system? You think a company as large as Apple or BB is going to allow for themselves to get "abused" on a policy that is present on every sale? They are not that dumb. In fact, because they have these policies is THE REASON I currently own and paid for a macbook air (and 4 $1000+ televisions from Best Buy), and if it weren't for me being able to return a lot of products, Apple and Best Buy would be worse off (and so would you if you buy stuff from them).
     
  16. eyespii macrumors 6502

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    Mar 8, 2008
    #116
    I'd like to know what you'd consider abusing the system if you think what you're doing doesn't count. To me, it means that you're using a policy for reasons other than the ones it was clearly designed for. They want you to know in advance that you can bring your purchase back if youre not satisfied, because they know you're more likely to buy something that way. It was NOT designed as a way for people to "rent" their products for free.

    What would happen if more people did what you do? Remember costco's infamous unlimited return policy when it used to apply to computers? Why do you think that doesn't exist any more? Because it was being abused, and they were most likely losing money because of it.
     
  17. rosemary1 macrumors regular

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    Aug 9, 2011
    #117
    The fact that the OP posted this in the first place is proof enough that what he describes is unethical and abuses the system. If that weren't the case, he'd have a clean conscious and wouldn't go looking for justification and approval from strangers on the Internet.

    You're going to do what you want anyways, so you might as well just go and do it.
     
  18. bigdrizzle13, Aug 19, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011

    bigdrizzle13 macrumors newbie

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    Aug 9, 2011
    #118
    I do not know how you could abuse the system, because some very smart people designed the system such that it will ultimately make them money, which it does, even in extreme cases like mine. Perhaps lying about defects of products (which is how a lot of people take advantage of warranties before they expire, but I do not do that because lying is unethical) would be a way to exploit the system, but that's not really a return policy issue. (On a side note, Apple does track warranty fulfillment for customers, and I THINK they are more hesitant to fix your product if you seem to complain about ticky tacky things too much, but I don't know this for sure) I ALWAYS make it obvious that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the product when I return it and that I will probably just buy it again. Never has anyone given me any trouble for this, including managers who are probably the main person responsible for making their branch profitable. If they wanted to prevent multiple returns like we are discussing, they would put a clause into the return policy disallowing the return of the same product on the same CC (or Apple ID, or BB rewards zone number) more than say 3 times (if it has no defect). The policy allows for EXACTLY what i do because they know that the flexibility given to extreme cases like me DOES make them money. They want you to be happy, Apple especially makes a living on this goal, and this is one way they can make a customer like me happy while still making money.

    I think (and that doesn't at all mean that you have to) that the system was in fact designed to allow this. Why would they not allow this if it makes them money? There is no negatives for anyone involved.

    EDIT:

    If more people did this, they would make more money, because they make money off me. Of course with any policy like this they will make money off some people and lose money off others, but the positives should out weigh the negatives, and I believe they do. If they did not, they would probably change their policy. If too many people tried to do this and those people were losing them money (not me), then they would change the policy. I do not know of the costco thing you are talking about.
     
  19. Itakou macrumors newbie

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    Aug 10, 2010
    #119
    You guys don't have restocking fees in the US? damn I'm jealous.
     
  20. eyespii macrumors 6502

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    Mar 8, 2008
    #120
    Most people don't do what you do NOT because it isn't ethical or because they don't want to "abuse" the system, but because it's a pain in the ass to do. if they did, the return policy would definitely go away, as evidenced by what happened to costco's policy. If you're not familiar with it, it allowed anyone to return a computer for a full refund 6 months after purchase, and tvs and other electronics could be returned At any time. Sure, the policy allowed you to do it, but it clearly was not designed for people to "rent" computers and other big ticket items for free.

    http://consumerist.com/2007/02/costco-million-lost-spurred-return-policy-rip.html

    How do you know they definitely make money off of you? Without having specifics, I'd be willing to bet that youre one of the ones they lose money on. You have to admit that what you do is extreme - most cant be bothered by the hassle. Think about it - each returned laptop probably costs them a few hundred dollars to process, inspect, and refurbish, plus they have to sell the item at a discount. if you returned ten laptops in a year, your returns have now cost them maybe a couple thousand? Even if you end up buying one laptop during the year, they're still in the red.

    None of that really matters though - what you're doing is clearly allowed by the return policy. I'm just amazed that you would go so far as to buy and return a laptop every 14 days for a whole year. Don't you have better things to do with your time?
     
  21. vitzr macrumors 68030

    vitzr

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Location:
    California
    #121
    And just one more factor that increases Mac prices. The obscene amount of returns Apple deals with due to "entitled" customers is simply over the top.
     
  22. bigdrizzle13 macrumors newbie

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    Aug 9, 2011
    #122
    I appreciate the response, and your non-hostile tone, most people can't refrain on forums like this.

    It only takes a few minutes to return an item, especially if its on the way for another errand or in between work and home. The thing is, they aren't JUST getting me to buy one laptop a year. They are getting us to talk about their products, they are getting me into their store, they are getting my loyalty. If Apple didn't have this policy, i would never have bought the macbook air to try out Mac (I was a windows user all my life). I loved it SO much that I am now without a doubt an apple customer for life, and not just in the laptop industry, apple TV (and therefore Itunes crap), mice, keyboards, iPods and phones, even Ipads. And more than likely, my friends and family will come asking me for advice about computers, as probably the case with most of the people on these forums, and I will recommend Apple with high praise. I cannot say for sure that they are making money off me, but I do know that consumer loyalty is worth A LOT to any company (especially Apple), probably more than a few thousand dollars. At the normal rate I've been spending money on computers, I will give apple SO much more than what they spent refurbishing a few laptops. Not every case is like mine, but if for every one of me, there are 3 people that do return things very often and don't ultimately give Apple any money, Apple still wins.

    To everyone else:

    People, if you really think that returns are what are making your Apple laptop more expensive than a windows laptop, think again. And how am I "entitled" if i am following a policy exactly as it reads... Entitled would involving breaking a law and thinking I should not be punished for it. And someone posted that just because this thread was created means that it is "unethical to return a laptop", you clearly don't understand what a forum is for...
     
  23. mayassa macrumors regular

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    Mar 29, 2008
    #123
    This is a great way to keep your warranty up to date no apple care needed get a free tech refresh every year a new model.
     
  24. KPOM macrumors G5

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    Oct 23, 2010
    #124
    I think the distinction people are making is between using and abusing a generous customer policy. Apple offers a return policy because they know that people will be more likely to make a big purchase if they have some assurance that they can change their minds within a short time and not be out the money. I don't think they intended for people to use the policies to "rent" computers for free, or to buy and return identical models trying to find a particular screen or SSD.

    I've benefitted from complimentary repairs, as well (most recently with my water-damaged 2010 MacBook Air), but I've never asked for or expected it. I've also been upgraded to first or business class on flights (again, never demanding or expecting it). Companies do things to win loyalty, but when people start "playing the system" companies change their behavior.

    I'm with you here, but I'd also argue that this is rather silly public policy. Either have a sales tax or don't. All tax holidays do is shift buying patterns around, and they usually benefit the wealthy more because they have the ability to delay or accelerate purchases as the case may be to take advantage of them. People living paycheck to paycheck don't have that luxury.
     

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