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I know you guys heard this a hundred times already but...
- Thread starter Bankaimadness
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Don't underestimate the value of those points. There's a synergy you get with Macs that make computing an entirely enjoyable experience. If you haven't been there, you won't know what you're missing.
Yes, for the spec I'd say that's a good price.
Compared to any current MBP you are getting an all-plastic construction and a worse screen (even MBP TN panels are quite good). But then again, it's cheap. And the Ultrabay can be useful.
There are plenty of $1,100 and upward PC laptops which are just as bad at gaming. If you want gaming with a MacBook, get a model with a decent GPU. Like the 15" rMBP, which is just as good as a mid-range gaming laptop (yes, its more expensive, but its also much lighter and has longer lasting battery). Same is true for Dells, Lenovos etc.
Though not directed at me, I want to interpose that I had lots of other notebooks from different brands, ranging from 700€-1500€. The hardware itself wasn't bad and they all served their purpose. But somewhen you realize the issues are always the same: cheap plastic casings, bad cooling systems, loose hinges etc. which eventually make you hate the device, even before it breaks. This is the price for buying cheap laptops. It's very easy to fall in the trap of "This other notebook has same specs but only costs half the price!".
If I had bought a MBP with dGPU in the end of 2009 (instead of a Samsung) I am 100% sure it would still serve me well even for the next 2-3 years! - and even for casually playing games such as Skyrim (which is playable on high settings on an ATI 4650m, a common midrange GPU back at that time). Now I need a Mac anyways to join the Apple Dev program. What a waste of money, waste of resources, frequent buying of laptops bad for the environment, but yeah... live and learn...
Exactly what happened to my sister. Got her computer with similar specs to my macbook for about 500*less. After half a year problems started (got too hot, trackpad was bad from the beginning, the display is nowhere near a macbook ...) Now (just a bit after 2 years) it's dead.
Time on a website in no way dictates superiority. The fact that he had to throw that out there only further diminishes this entire thread.
Can there be an option 3 which is taking 1 and 2 combined?
You are asking an Apple forum if you're crazy for thinking there isn't enough value in a Mac? This isn't that hard, you are right. I do not care if you've been registered for years. What is happening here is you're asking questions that you basically know the answers to. If you bought a Mac then chances are you're not dumb and you found value at the time. You spent your money and as such, you told yourself that it was a good buy. If you feel like you need to revaluate your purchases then fine; these questions have been asked and answered. Also, if you want to play the "I've been here longer" card then at the very least do a search and you'll find wonderful arguments for and against. I mean, since you've been here you know that searching is key, right?
As for hostility, I'm not hostile at all. I don't care what you like or don't like. I think it's tough when someone calls you out. I know I don't like it, but it happens. I think you figured by masking your "question" the way that you did, it has allowed you to shrug your shoulders and claim you just can't understand why people think you're trolling. Acting surprised that people on a Mac forum are actually going to defend the brand and their purchases seems short-sighted.
I've already stated my position on Macs for gaming, I don't think I need to do it again.
It shouldn't matter to you what people spend their money on and why. I believe that you wholeheartedly know that you do not find value in a Mac any longer. You bought one, got over the hype and now you're looking to move on. Just move on, it's not that hard, as you say.
And soon, the powerful consoles Xbone and PS4 can pretty much replace a dedicated PC tower for gaming. All they need is a keyboard... oops, those are available already.
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OK, you win.
27" iMacs are fully capable machines for gaming. The higher end 21" iMacs are also alright at most games. The 27" with GTX780M 4GB GDDR5 will easily manage all but a select few of the most demanding games on ultra high settings. So Macs can game. It's a stupid myth they can't made up by forum trolls.
For a laptop that can play the most demanding current games on the best settings at a high frame rate you've always needed a specialist product. A laptop specifically made for gaming. Apple doesn't currently make a laptop in this category. So MacBooks aren't fully intended for use as gaming machines.
However, high spec'd Airs, 13" rMBPs, and MBPs are all capable of running less demanding games. Especially with Haswell. (New to MBP tomorrow. Fingers crossed.) They will easily run games like Star Craft II.
The 15" rMBP is a powerful laptop that can run more demanding games as a byproduct of its specs. I wouldn't buy ome with the sole intention of gaming, but if you want a MacBook, and will occasionally play games like Sim City then it's the one you want.
Macs can't game is a myth that annoyingly is spread about this forum too much. They can be used to play games, but if you want to play the most demanding current games on the highest settings possible buy a specialist gaming laptop. Just like you would buy a specialist gaming PC if you wanted a PC for demanding games.
For a laptop that can play the most demanding current games on the best settings at a high frame rate you've always needed a specialist product. A laptop specifically made for gaming. Apple doesn't currently make a laptop in this category. So MacBooks aren't fully intended for use as gaming machines.
However, high spec'd Airs, 13" rMBPs, and MBPs are all capable of running less demanding games. Especially with Haswell. (New to MBP tomorrow. Fingers crossed.) They will easily run games like Star Craft II.
The 15" rMBP is a powerful laptop that can run more demanding games as a byproduct of its specs. I wouldn't buy ome with the sole intention of gaming, but if you want a MacBook, and will occasionally play games like Sim City then it's the one you want.
Macs can't game is a myth that annoyingly is spread about this forum too much. They can be used to play games, but if you want to play the most demanding current games on the highest settings possible buy a specialist gaming laptop. Just like you would buy a specialist gaming PC if you wanted a PC for demanding games.
Not necessarily. As stated above, if gaming trumps all other considerations then an MBP may not be the best choice.
Some are. Some are not. We're not all identical clones with the exact same needs/wants/preferences/priorities. I'm fine with what I'm getting. I did my due diligence and found a solution that best fit my own criteria. However, that doesn't mean that you or the next person will be happy with what I selected.
Then why are you beating on this dead horse?
It's not always about logic or what you consider logical. Additionally there are often a number of factors at play. Gaming wasn't my primary consideration and I wasn't going to buy 2 different machines so I game on my MBP. YMMV as one size does not fit all. If it doesn't work for you then don't game on an MBP.
You can't poll others to determine your preferences and priorities. You need to use your own to determine which option to select. It's really no different than buying anything else. If you assume that one solution is best for everyone then you'll be confounded on a lot of things in life -- not just buying laptops.
It's borderline in this case IMO. You're asking "Why would others?" and then attempting to refute their reasons with why you wouldn't. Is the topic why others would or why you would? Again, reasons and priorities vary and your inability to grasp this is probably what others are taking as trollish.
There's nothing wrong with wanting the best specs for the least price. There is, however, something wrong with calling other people's decisions absurd just because their priorities differ. The laptop market offers solutions to fill different niches for that very reason.
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Ill chime in here - Ive recently started shopping for a replacement for one of our windows based laptops at home. Im quite interested in the MB Air due to its lower cost and excellent portability. But...13" screens are small to me and that might not cut it when using it at home which will be a good 75% of its use.
So, A MB Pro 15" seems to be a decent compromise between portability and screen size.
What I have learned is:
1) Mac hardware specs cant always be compared directly with Windows systems hardware. I believe the Macs are more effecient and may require less "hardware" for similar performance. That explains why they win benchmark shootouts even with "crappier" specs.
2) Build quality and "system cohesion" is a big plus for Macs. There are some high grade options for Windows users but those machines arent any cheaper than Macs.
3) The cost of Mac hardware upgrades is pretty debilitating. Ugh. A little more RAM or especially SSD storage adds hundreds and hundreds of dollars to the final cost. Ouch.
4) Apple Care is also pretty expensive - just like the hardware upgrades. Hundreds of dollars for essentially "insurance". And, with suposedly better hardware/build quality & a foolproof ecosystem.... what could really go wrong?
5) Gaming has never been and never will be a Mac strong point. I love Age of Empires 3 and just cant live without it. But, the Mac version is dodgy and out of circulation so it wont be anoption. Id have to keep a Windows system around just for that game.
Overall, I do feel Apple offers some compelling options for laptop shoppers. You just have to get used to th cost structure and what you get and what you wont get.
Im actually leaning towards a refurbed macBok Pro 15". 8GB ram, 256 SSD, retina display for about $1600. Not bad
So, A MB Pro 15" seems to be a decent compromise between portability and screen size.
What I have learned is:
1) Mac hardware specs cant always be compared directly with Windows systems hardware. I believe the Macs are more effecient and may require less "hardware" for similar performance. That explains why they win benchmark shootouts even with "crappier" specs.
2) Build quality and "system cohesion" is a big plus for Macs. There are some high grade options for Windows users but those machines arent any cheaper than Macs.
3) The cost of Mac hardware upgrades is pretty debilitating. Ugh. A little more RAM or especially SSD storage adds hundreds and hundreds of dollars to the final cost. Ouch.
4) Apple Care is also pretty expensive - just like the hardware upgrades. Hundreds of dollars for essentially "insurance". And, with suposedly better hardware/build quality & a foolproof ecosystem.... what could really go wrong?
5) Gaming has never been and never will be a Mac strong point. I love Age of Empires 3 and just cant live without it. But, the Mac version is dodgy and out of circulation so it wont be anoption. Id have to keep a Windows system around just for that game.
Overall, I do feel Apple offers some compelling options for laptop shoppers. You just have to get used to th cost structure and what you get and what you wont get.
Im actually leaning towards a refurbed macBok Pro 15". 8GB ram, 256 SSD, retina display for about $1600. Not bad
You have just answered your own question and why a good many of us own macs.
You may have never heard this, but I hate thread titles that state nothing about what content is enclosed
How about the fact that this Lenovo is almost twice as thick as the rMBP? You pay a premium for skinny hardware, it's always been this way, and always will be. When you look at laptops that are the same form factor as the retina Macs, you will find that prices also get a lot closer.