I like iMacs... but not enough to buy one

[Wirbowsky]

Thanks to all of your for the constructive and polite answers.

For some Imac price can be reduced by reselling them. My habit is more to keep stuff I buy. Anti-virus and office suites are not relevant to me. I use free anti-virus for years on PC and I never had any issue. I have never bought office either as free office tools are enough for my needs.


I am sure we can play games on Mac but the price entry is much higher than on a PC. Imac looks great and I would be very happy to own one and game on it but I am not ready to spend 3000€ on a disposable computer.

May be a pc + mac mini is a good idea. Actually I would be very happy if Apple would sell simply a Mac. Ie more than a Mac mini, less than a Mac Pro but not an all in one either.

May be I will have a look at hackintosh
Any way I am not in a hurry, so I will wait for the next hardware refresh and have a look at my budget.

 

[rocknblogger]

Thanks to all of your for the constructive and polite answers.

For some Imac price can be reduced by reselling them. My habit is more to keep stuff I buy. Anti-virus and office suites are not relevant to me. I use free anti-virus for years on PC and I never had any issue. I have never bought office either as free office tools are enough for my needs.


I am sure we can play games on Mac but the price entry is much higher than on a PC. Imac looks great and I would be very happy to own one and game on it but I am not ready to spend 3000€ on a disposable computer.

May be a pc + mac mini is a good idea. Actually I would be very happy if Apple would sell simply a Mac. Ie more than a Mac mini, less than a Mac Pro but not an all in one either.

May be I will have a look at hackintosh
Any way I am not in a hurry, so I will wait for the next hardware refresh and have a look at my budget.

If you're going to consider a Hackintosh take a look at this buyer's guide for the right build. Getting the right parts makes it much easier to do. http://www.tonymacx86.com/443-building-customac-buyer-s-guide-september-2014.html

 

[MartinAppleGuy]

Thanks to all of your for the constructive and polite answers.

For some Imac price can be reduced by reselling them. My habit is more to keep stuff I buy. Anti-virus and office suites are not relevant to me. I use free anti-virus for years on PC and I never had any issue. I have never bought office either as free office tools are enough for my needs.


I am sure we can play games on Mac but the price entry is much higher than on a PC. Imac looks great and I would be very happy to own one and game on it but I am not ready to spend 3000€ on a disposable computer.

May be a pc + mac mini is a good idea. Actually I would be very happy if Apple would sell simply a Mac. Ie more than a Mac mini, less than a Mac Pro but not an all in one either.

May be I will have a look at hackintosh
Any way I am not in a hurry, so I will wait for the next hardware refresh and have a look at my budget.

If you are looking into a Mac Mini, wait until the October event in hope that they release a new model. I see the higher end model (which sells for around £650) greeting updated with a 4th gen Quad Core i7, 8GB of RAM and Intel Iris Pro. If this does happen (and it's Iris Pro, not Iris), I think you will get away with gaming on it. It won't max every game out, but from what I've seen it can game very well. Here is a set of Youtube videos showing off an iMac with Intel Iris Pro gaming:

https://www.youtube.com/user/90GTFord/videos

One of the games is Crysis 3 running at 720p (ok) but at high settings on everything.

 

[lJoSquaredl]

Thanks to all of your for the constructive and polite answers.

For some Imac price can be reduced by reselling them. My habit is more to keep stuff I buy. Anti-virus and office suites are not relevant to me. I use free anti-virus for years on PC and I never had any issue. I have never bought office either as free office tools are enough for my needs.


I am sure we can play games on Mac but the price entry is much higher than on a PC. Imac looks great and I would be very happy to own one and game on it but I am not ready to spend 3000€ on a disposable computer.

May be a pc + mac mini is a good idea. Actually I would be very happy if Apple would sell simply a Mac. Ie more than a Mac mini, less than a Mac Pro but not an all in one either.

May be I will have a look at hackintosh
Any way I am not in a hurry, so I will wait for the next hardware refresh and have a look at my budget.

I used to be just like that lol. Keep a computer for 5-10 years, upgrade and install new stuff or just let it go, all while trying to pay as little as possible. Might just be getting older, but i've learned to not nickel and dime on the stuff you love, so that would be gaming and tech for me. I like Apple products, like genuinely enjoy being on them. I went from delaying a new PC/Windows purchase for years to doing the buy and replace every 1-2 years thing...best decision ever

I also used to enjoy learning how to build, install, fix, etc...but now that I use my computers for work, I ain't got time for that crap anymore I just need something that works. Never been one for warranties either but Applecare is just so worth it, I get it every time now. (specially after a few issues in the past with Dell) In the end sometimes it just comes down to the operating system which IMO is worth. Hard to beat the sexy external beauty as well tho. Windows always gets sluggish on me within 3 months too I must just abuse the hell out of the OS, altho I do the same stuff on OSX and see no slowdowns so who knows.

Either way i'm rambling, just go with ur gut and be happy with ur decision regardless.

 

[Wirbowsky]

Actually I would be very happy if Apple would sell simply a Mac. Ie more than a Mac mini, less than a Mac Pro but not an all in one either.

I am still hoping for my wish to come true after the 16th October. It has been way too long.

 

[leenak]

I was actually set on buying a Windows laptop next year partially because I'm not a fan of running bootcamp on my MBP and many games I play/plan to play are under Windows.

But I am at the point where I do have an emotional attachment to OSX so I am scrapping that plan. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Also, when you do your price comparison, wait until after October 16th to see if updated iMacs are released.

I am considering a few options right now including buying an iMac or possibly even buying a refurbished Mac Pro (mostly due to the upgrade options although a Mac Pro is serious overkill for my needs).

 

[joema2]

...I am sure we can play games on Mac but the price entry is much higher than on a PC....

An iMac is often no more expensive than a similarly-equipped and configured PC.

E.g, compare an iMac 27 to a Dell XPS 27. They are both all-in-one designs from a major manufacturer. When similarly configured, they are about the same price. The difference is the Dell is heavier, clunkier-looking and acoustically louder.

It's true if you compare dissimilar computers -- say a tower PC to an iMac -- the tower PC might be cheaper. Apple doesn't make a mainstream tower design.

What if Apple didn't make any desktop machines at all, only MacBooks? Would we compare a MacBook to a budget eMachines tower, just because the clock rate is the same? In a way the comparison is fair, if you just need computational performance at the lowest price and don't care about all other aspects. But in a way it's unfair because they are totally different kinds of computers.

Apple intentionally makes only one type of mainstream desktop machine -- the iMac. If it meets your needs, good. OTOH if your needs are met by a different type of PC -- say a budget tower -- which is larger, heavier and louder, then that's the best type for you.

 

[LostSoul80]

Breaking: Apple products are expensive.

 

[Wirbowsky]

It's true if you compare dissimilar computers -- say a tower PC to an iMac -- the tower PC might be cheaper. Apple doesn't make a mainstream tower design.

That is exactly what I would like Apple to do, sell a sort of Mac mini with desktop components and price/perf ratio similar to desktop tower.

 

[yjchua95]

That is exactly what I would like Apple to do, sell a sort of Mac mini with desktop components and price/perf ratio similar to desktop tower.

Not going to happen. Apple is all about thin, unobtrusive designs.

 

[Jonx]

I bought my first Mac a few years ago (if we forget about the Mac+ I bought second hand a long long time ago).

It was a Macbook Pro 13" mid 2010. I still use it today, almost every day.
I like the machine and I like Mac OS.
At the time, I made a comparison between the Macbook and similar hardware from Dell, Asus... Price and performances were almost identical. So I thought, why not try Apple.

Now, I would like to buy a desktop and be able to play recent games at good resolutions.

I like the design of the iMacs. I can imagine one sitting in my home, that would be great.

The cheapest iMac starts at 1129€. I have checked what PC + screen I could buy for 1200€. The hardware comparison is disastrous.

CPU
-Mac: Intel i5 dual core 2.7 Ghz. 3 MB cache
-PC: Intel i7 quad core 4.4 Ghz. 8 MB cache

Ram
This is a tie with 8 GB Ram.

HD
-Mac: 500 GB HD. 5400 rpm
- PC: 120 Gb SSD + 1 terra HD 7400 rpm

GPU
-Mac: Intel HD Graphics 5000
- PC: Radeon R9 280 3 Go


The comparison is so bad for the iMac that I think my next purchase will get me back in the PC world. Of course I will not have OS X but that is not an issue for me. I can do what I want with both OS and stability is similar.

Imac looks great, OS X is nice, bootcamp is available, iTunes runs better but that is not enough for me. I will wait for the October refresh announcement but I would be surprised if Apple will put back the price/power ratio of iMacs in line with PC.

I had the same dilemma couple of years back, I needed a new computer as my iMac getting older and slow but iMac were expensive compared to what you can build with the same amount of money, plus I wanted to be able to play whatever game I want to play on high settings. So I've switched to PC, luckily Win 7 and 8 are not terrible operating systems compared to previous ones. They are stable and works well, however they are not OS X and I miss it.

If you decide to switch to PC and if you are going to build your own PC, perhaps you should check out the Hackint0sh related forums and buy compatible hardware to run OS X with minimal fiddling. Once you setup drivers and so on, OSX runs flawlessly.

 

[Ethosik]

Why do people always compare an all-in-one system to a tower PC?

Show me a Dell, Lenovo, HP all in one system that is thousands of dollars cheaper.

Show me a Dell, Lenovo, HP system with the SAME SPECS (including Office full since Macs come with iWork for free now) that is $500+ less expensive.

I am getting really sick of these product comparisons. You need to compare the same stuff.

No a computer with a 5400RPM drive is not the same as a computer with an SSD. An SSD costs more than a 5400RPM drive you know?

No a tower with a $100 cheap 27" monitor is not the same as an iMac with a 27" display.

You guys have to realize you are also paying for the better hardware. No I am not talking about processors or ram. But better fans (not as loud as some PCs can get) casing, overall design, and more.

Seriously, I had one guy try to prove to me that he can build a better system than the new Mac Pro for $800. What failed during his comparison:

i5 processor instead of the Xeon. The Xeon would probably be $500+ alone if you got it from Newegg.

Cheap $200 "gaming" video card instead of the workstation graphics cards that come with the Mac Pro.

7200 RPM drive 1TB instead of a SSD, let alone a PCIe SSD with amazing performance.

People REALLY need to learn how to compare products. If you do not need an all in one, fine. But when you compare, you need to compare all-in-one to all-in-one. If you can get away with the desktop tower, go ahead. But I have not seen any evidence that a mac is OMG WAYYYYYYYY OVERPRICED.

 

[iMcLovin]

You make a valid point if you want the Most hardware performance for the cheapest buck. I never imagined the iMac to be something you can compare to prices of the squeezed of prices of PCs. I know this comparison is used up, but it's the same as with cars, are you willing to pay for luxury? Or do you have a limited budget and want most engine and don't want to spend on comfort?
But as other mentions as well, apart from the luxury feeling which cost a lot extra - the resell value is extremely important with apple products (same as cars - harder to sell cheap cars and find interested buyers). I sell my iMac every 2nd year and then buy a new one top BTO option. I can sell my previous iMac for half the price of what I paid for it and it will sell in matter of minutes. A 2 year old pc is worthless and most likely you want to throw it in the garbage yourself. So in theory the iMac cost half of what you pay for it, which suddenly makes the buy more sensible.

I never really looked at Mac as something everyone wants. You need to be interested in paying for design, looks, OS X, and user friendly qualities. In general I think macs are aimed at professional creatives and the professional market in general and also for some consumers willing to pay for other stuff than ghz.

So your reasoning makes sense, though I wouldn't consider a PC even if I got it for free. To each his own I guess

 

[rrl]

A 2 year old pc is worthless and most likely you want to throw it in the garbage yourself.

I wouldn't consider a PC even if I got it for free.

These two comments kind of make your argument meaningless.

 

[iMcLovin]

These two comments kind of make your argument meaningless.

Because ? Please explain to me...

Just for the record, What I meant is:

I say a pc's resell value is nothing after 2 years. Which is correct, buying a PC for 1200$, you are not going to be able to sell that for much after 2 years. Probably nothing.

ANd because I don´t want a pc myself, even for free, don't mean I wouldn't take it of course, but I wouldn't use it....simply because I don't like working in windows and I don't like cheaply built windows computers - I've had too much trouble with them in my career.

 

[leenak]

Because ? Please explain to me...

Just for the record, What I meant is:

I say a pc's resell value is nothing after 2 years. Which is correct, buying a PC for 1200$, you are not going to be able to sell that for much after 2 years. Probably nothing.

ANd because I don´t want a pc myself, even for free, don't mean I wouldn't take it of course, but I wouldn't use it....simply because I don't like working in windows and I don't like cheaply built windows computers - I've had too much trouble with them in my career.

But if someone is going for a tower, then you don't need to sell it, as components get older, you can upgrade them individually which can make a non-Mac PC cheaper. Personally, the reason I'm leaning towards an iMac is because the specs are between an mini and a Mac Pro. Not because it is an all in 1. If Apple made a tower with the same footprint as the Mac Pro but geared towards users who want some upgradable parts, I wouldn't even consider the iMac.

 

[rrl]

For the OP's situation, there currently is no silver bullet. Plenty of us have tried, and my eventual compromise was mentioned in the first few responses:

OP, don't bother with an iMac for gaming. Use a PC for gaming and maybe get a Mac mini for everything else. You can use the same keyboard, mouse, and monitor for multiple computers using a KVM switch

For people that lean towards gaming for their compute intensive tasks, like my son, this is a relatively versatile solution. There is no dual booting, and at the flick of a button you're either gaming or running a decent os.

But the devil is in the details, and I can explain further if need be how to smoothly share components without sacrificing too much convenience or money.

I too like iMacs, but they just don't work in some situations.

 

[Wirbowsky]

If you decide to switch to PC and if you are going to build your own PC, perhaps you should check out the Hackint0sh related forums and buy compatible hardware to run OS X with minimal fiddling. Once you setup drivers and so on, OSX runs flawlessly.

Actually I think that a hackintosh is nice but surely it would require regular tweaking after each update. I think a real Mac or a Windows PC would be easier to maintain. (I had Windows PC for years and never had any major issue). I do not have the time to tweak my machine regularly, so whatever I choose it will have to be stable

----------

Why do people always compare an all-in-one system to a tower PC?

I can only speak for my self. All-in-one is not in my list or requirement but that is what Apple sells. So if I were to go for a PC, it will not event look at all-in-one solutions. So I am force to compare what I would buy as PC versus an Imac. I have no interest in the Mac Pro.

So surely comparing iMac to all-in-one PC is more favorable but it does not fit with what I am looking for.

I would be very happy if Apple were to do a sort of all-in-one but being more focused on the performance/price ration versus the thinness of the device.

----------

Personally, the reason I'm leaning towards an iMac is because the specs are between an mini and a Mac Pro. Not because it is an all in 1. If Apple made a tower with the same footprint as the Mac Pro but geared towards users who want some upgradable parts, I wouldn't even consider the iMac.

This summarise exactly the situation I am in.

 

[poiihy]

iMacs are not designed for power. They are designed for.... whatever they are designed for. If you want power, you use a Mac Pro (previously called PowerMac ) Thought that is very expensive

Bottom line: PCs are cheaper. Macs are more expensive. End of story.

 

[Wirbowsky]

For the OP's situation, there currently is no silver bullet. Plenty of us have tried, and my eventual compromise was mentioned in the first few responses:



For people that lean towards gaming for their compute intensive tasks, like my son, this is a relatively versatile solution. There is no dual booting, and at the flick of a button you're either gaming or running a decent os.

But the devil is in the details, and I can explain further if need be how to smoothly share components without sacrificing too much convenience or money.

I too like iMacs, but they just don't work in some situations.

Thanks. I have taken note of your advice. I will consider it. It will depends very much and what will be revealed next week. I might come down that there is no iMac refresh due to Intel delay. I that case, I might even wait for next year and put some money aside. But somewhere inside me, I hope that it "has been too long" not to have a real MAC.

 

[Jonx]

Actually I think that a hackintosh is nice but surely it would require regular tweaking after each update. I think a real Mac or a Windows PC would be easier to maintain. (I had Windows PC for years and never had any major issue). I do not have the time to tweak my machine regularly, so whatever I choose it will have to be stable

----------



I can only speak for my self. All-in-one is not in my list or requirement but that is what Apple sells. So if I were to go for a PC, it will not event look at all-in-one solutions. So I am force to compare what I would buy as PC versus an Imac. I have no interest in the Mac Pro.

So surely comparing iMac to all-in-one PC is more favorable but it does not fit with what I am looking for.

I would be very happy if Apple were to do a sort of all-in-one but being more focused on the performance/price ration versus the thinness of the device.

----------



This summarise exactly the situation I am in.

Yes it does actually, it becomes a bit bothersome after the novelty wears off. I thought it might be a good compromise but obviously you need to be prepared to maintain it.

 

[Ethosik]

Also, lets clear up the common mistake people make in terms of gaming. Macs are JUST FINE for gaming. An Intel is an Intel, an AMD is an AMD, and a NVIDIA is a NVIDIA.

It is OS X that is not made for gaming. If you get a iMac and put Windows on it, it is a VERY GOOD gaming computer. Granted you cannot play max settings at 1440p, but I cannot either with a GTX 680 on newer games.

I have had many macs, and even the laptops are good at gaming under Windows.

 

[leenak]

Also, lets clear up the common mistake people make in terms of gaming. Macs are JUST FINE for gaming. An Intel is an Intel, an AMD is an AMD, and a NVIDIA is a NVIDIA.

It is OS X that is not made for gaming. If you get a iMac and put Windows on it, it is a VERY GOOD gaming computer. Granted you cannot play max settings at 1440p, but I cannot either with a GTX 680 on newer games.

I have had many macs, and even the laptops are good at gaming under Windows.

True but even if you tell 'hardcore gamers' that you are using a laptop, they'll scream in horror. Some of the bias is due to OSX being your primary operating system, where some games aren't released under OSX. The other bias is not being able to upgrade your video card every two years. The other bias is that laptops may throttle your cpu due to heat constraints. You can play whatever games fine on a mac, better if the game is under OSX but gah booting to Windows is the pits... but better than having to have a dedicated Windows system

 

[Wirbowsky]

Also, lets clear up the common mistake people make in terms of gaming. Macs are JUST FINE for gaming. An Intel is an Intel, an AMD is an AMD, and a NVIDIA is a NVIDIA.

It is OS X that is not made for gaming. If you get a iMac and put Windows on it, it is a VERY GOOD gaming computer. Granted you cannot play max settings at 1440p, but I cannot either with a GTX 680 on newer games.

I have had many macs, and even the laptops are good at gaming under Windows.

Actually I think Os X is fine for gaming. It is rather that many games are not made for OS X. Any way I got enough of steam games for both platform.

My issue is really with the price/performance ratio. I would like to buy a machine that will hold several years. With a PC i could upgrade the CPU and GPU and give it a second youth. With an iMac I would have to buy a 3,000€ machine which is two times the price I am ready to pay.

 

[rittchard]

I've been a PC gamer most of my adult life. I've built my own, upgraded everything from RAM to processor to hard drives to one graphics card after another. About 6 years ago I bought my first iMac mostly as an experiment. I was amazed at well it held up a couple years later, after multiple PCs and upgrades had come and gone. A few years ago I finally decided I would completely shift over to the iMac as my primary PC gaming machine (running Bootcamp), and I really have not looked back.

The price/power ratio can be misleading. As Whiplash and others have mentioned, this is an extremely well designed integrated product built to last. I can play the majority of PC games maxxed out on a 27" screen that is still one of the best available. Drive speeds are comparable to the top of the line SSDs. The graphics card is the biggest limitation, but even that is becoming less and less a factor as even the newest games rarely need the full power of the biggest graphics card.

The best part about these machines is they last. I gave my original iMac away and I believe it is still being used. Older models I either give away as gifts or use as secondary backups, and they are all still doing great. I recently gave my parents a 2-year old model and it looks brand new, and vastly outperforms the last PC I bought for them. Compare that experience to the graveyard of PCs I have gathering dust or can't even donate away, and honestly... there's no comparison.

Apple products are extremely well engineered machines, and that's something that's hard to evaluate in terms of specs/price/performance.