I need to get 802.11N in my Power Mac G5...

applemax

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 22, 2005
1,032
3
Hi

Mainly for range reasons, I need to get 802.11n in my Power Mac G5 (Dual 2.3Ghz / PowerMac7,3), via presumably a PCI card.

It needs to use the AirPort Utility Interface for base station management, the AirPort Network status bars in the toolbar at the top of Mac OS X and no third party preference panes or software.

Does such a solution exist for a UK user? I found this item - would that be suitable despite saying it's only compatible with Windows?

Thanks :)
 

dcpmark

macrumors 6502a
Oct 20, 2009
911
668
Maybe I don't understand the problem, but why do you need a card? Buy an 801.11n Airport Extreme or Express, and run an Ethernet cable to the G5.
 

applemax

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 22, 2005
1,032
3
Maybe I don't understand the problem, but why do you need a card? Buy an 801.11n Airport Extreme or Express, and run an Ethernet cable to the G5.
I've gone over the options, Ethernet is impossible - I just need to find a suitable PCI card. :)
 

tsugaru

macrumors 6502
Feb 9, 2003
300
5
Edmonton
You could get an 802.11 ethernet bridge.

Short of that, it might be a toughie to find a Mac compatible PCI 802.11n card.
 

OrangeSVTguy

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2007
4,109
54
Northeastern Ohio
Is yours the dual-core version or dual processor?

The DC versions have PCIe so I don't think that normal PCI cards will fit. I just bought a DC model so I'm in the same boat as OP but I only have a G network and ebay is sadly way overpriced for the bluetooth/airport combo cards for this model.
 

applemax

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 22, 2005
1,032
3
Is yours the dual-core version or dual processor?

The DC versions have PCIe so I don't think that normal PCI cards will fit. I just bought a DC model so I'm in the same boat as OP but I only have a G network and ebay is sadly way overpriced for the bluetooth/airport combo cards for this model.
I've got the dual processor model with the PCI-X slots. If I were to buy a USB adaptor would it use the AirPort interface, preferences and software?

Thanks :D
 

Dark Dragoon

macrumors 6502a
Jul 28, 2006
843
3
UK
Why is this
Maybe I don't understand the problem, but why do you need a card? Buy an 801.11n Airport Extreme or Express, and run an Ethernet cable to the G5.
not a viable solution?

This is what I used for a while where you have an airport express plugged in close to the Mac with a short ethernet cable connecting it. Then the airport express connects to the airport extreme base station via wireless in a WDS setup. With this setup you wouldn't get to use the wireless configuration built into OSX though, as you would be connected by cable to the express. However you wouldn't need any third party software and you can use the AirPort Utility for administrating the Airport Extreme/Express.

With pretty much any third party solution including USB ones you will need to use third party drivers and software.
 

applemax

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 22, 2005
1,032
3
Why is this

not a viable solution?

This is what I used for a while where you have an airport express plugged in close to the Mac with a short ethernet cable connecting it. Then the airport express connects to the airport extreme base station via wireless in a WDS setup. With this setup you wouldn't get to use the wireless configuration built into OSX though, as you would be connected by cable to the express. However you wouldn't need any third party software and you can use the AirPort Utility for administrating the Airport Extreme/Express.

With pretty much any third party solution including USB ones you will need to use third party drivers and software.
Oh, I misread that completely - I got the impression you meant I should run an ethernet from the router to the mac, which is impossible. I suppose I could create a bridge - I just go on 'extend network' right? My N network is already being extended by another AirPort. Can it be extended again?
 

Dark Dragoon

macrumors 6502a
Jul 28, 2006
843
3
UK
I just go on 'extend network' right? My N network is already being extended by another AirPort. Can it be extended again?
On the base station setup you should be able to set the main Airport as the WDS Main, the second Airport as a WDS relay and a third as a WDS remote. Thats if the third one can't get a direct signal to the first one. In this configuration they act as a chain, though you do loose a bit of speed.

This is a setup I've used for a while, though it's with a couple of older 802.11g Airport Expresses as the remote and relay and a newer Airport Extreme gigabit N as the main.

I'm not sure how many you can chain together though it works fine with two. Though if both the remote Airports can connect wirelessly to the main Airport then you can just set them both as WDS remotes instead of chaining them.

Though as tsugaru mentioned you could get a cheaper wireless ethernet bridge which will do the same thing, though it would just act as a client and not rebroadcast the wireless signal. You would most likely have to configure it using a web browser, however this should be a one time thing.
 

applemax

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 22, 2005
1,032
3
On the base station setup you should be able to set the main Airport as the WDS Main, the second Airport as a WDS relay and a third as a WDS remote. Thats if the third one can't get a direct signal to the first one. In this configuration they act as a chain, though you do loose a bit of speed.

This is a setup I've used for a while, though it's with a couple of older 802.11g Airport Expresses as the remote and relay and a newer Airport Extreme gigabit N as the main.

I'm not sure how many you can chain together though it works fine with two. Though if both the remote Airports can connect wirelessly to the main Airport then you can just set them both as WDS remotes instead of chaining them.

Though as tsugaru mentioned you could get a cheaper wireless ethernet bridge which will do the same thing, though it would just act as a client and not rebroadcast the wireless signal. You would most likely have to configure it using a web browser, however this should be a one time thing.
Yeah, but N doesn't use WDS.
 

Dark Dragoon

macrumors 6502a
Jul 28, 2006
843
3
UK
Yeah, but N doesn't use WDS.
Ah didn't realise that, though on my Airport Extreme it allows me to setup the WDS with 802.11n enabled but only on the 2.4GHz band. I wonder if it just drops to 802.11g speeds in that setup.

Do you use 2.4GHz or 5GHz 802.11n?
 

applemax

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 22, 2005
1,032
3
Ah didn't realise that, though on my Airport Extreme it allows me to setup the WDS with 802.11n enabled but only on the 2.4GHz band. I wonder if it just drops to 802.11g speeds in that setup.

Do you use 2.4GHz or 5GHz 802.11n?
I can't stand 5Ghz - it's way to slow for me. Yeah, WDS only supports G. For pure-n networks the option you'll see is 'Extend Wireless Network'
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
6,767
783
A bridge is probably the best option. I don't think there is a way to get 802.11 in there with the airport control panel.
 

dcpmark

macrumors 6502a
Oct 20, 2009
911
668
Ok, my curiosity is peaked.

Don't take this the wrong way, but why would you need it to look a certain way unless you were trying to fool someone else? I've never known anyone who needs a solution to look a particular way....most people only care if it works properly or is more efficient. If you are simply trying to put give YOUR G5 an 802.11n network, it's quite simple to hook an Airport via an ethernet cable. You would control it using the Airport Utility, no 3rd party stuff involved, and the Network status icon in the toolbar would simply show that you are connected to the Network via ethernet. You wouldn't have the Airport signal bars, but again......who cares unless you are tying to hide something?

Are you trying to replace an internal g card on SOMEONE ELSE'S G5 with an n card without them knowing it? Why is God's name would ethernet be "impossible"???

I'm no expert, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.
 

applemax

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 22, 2005
1,032
3
Ok, my curiosity is peaked.

Don't take this the wrong way, but why would you need it to look a certain way unless you were trying to fool someone else? I've never known anyone who needs a solution to look a particular way....most people only care if it works properly or is more efficient. If you are simply trying to put give YOUR G5 an 802.11n network, it's quite simple to hook an Airport via an ethernet cable. You would control it using the Airport Utility, no 3rd party stuff involved, and the Network status icon in the toolbar would simply show that you are connected to the Network via ethernet. You wouldn't have the Airport signal bars, but again......who cares unless you are tying to hide something?

Are you trying to replace an internal g card on SOMEONE ELSE'S G5 with an n card without them knowing it? Why is God's name would ethernet be "impossible"???

I'm no expert, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.
What are you talking about? I need it to be N and not ethernet because surprisingly, I don't want my house littered with grey cabling, OK? And why exactly would I be 'hiding something' - what are you on? I could not care less about 'someone else's G5'. All I came in here to ask was for someone to recommend a PCI card or adequate solution to achieve my needs. I didn't come here for someone to play some stupid little detective game with me. :mad:
 

dcpmark

macrumors 6502a
Oct 20, 2009
911
668
What are you talking about? I need it to be N and not ethernet because surprisingly, I don't want my house littered with grey cabling, OK? And why exactly would I be 'hiding something' - what are you on? I could not care less about 'someone else's G5'. All I came in here to ask was for someone to recommend a PCI card or adequate solution to achieve my needs. I didn't come here for someone to play some stupid little detective game with me. :mad:
I guess you took it the wrong way after all....

Most people come asking for a solution to a problem. I've never seen anyone ask for a solution that had to look a certain way. My curiosity was peaked. I was hoping you'd explain to satisfy MY curiosity, as well as to possibly find a DIFFERENT answer to your problem. End of story.

By the way, your explanation "I don't want my house littered with grey cabling" is quite flimsy, in my humble opinion. One ethernet cable, in color of your choice, hardly constitutes littering a house with grey cabling. A single 6" cable for $.69 in any color you want would solve your problem, and Airport Express could sit directly behind the G5 with no exposed cables:

http://www.showmecables.com/showProducts.asp?category_id=268&gclid=CL2Ky7Oe6p4CFRYaagodjVF4Ew

And that still doesn't explain why it has to LOOK a certain way. Why would it HAVE to have Airport status bars at the top?? If I directed you to an internal n card that worked in your G5 but had different network status bars on the toolbar than Airport's, why would you turn it down? According to you, your only stated phobia of grey cables would be addressed.

Anyway, good luck getting an n network on a G5...a single white cable, neatly tucked away and connected to an Airport Extreme, solved that little problem for me for quite a while now.
 

10THzMac

macrumors 6502
Dec 17, 2007
376
0
Thinking more generally. I wanted to add an older iMac G4 to my house network (and to do so a long way from the router), recently updated to use a timeport with N wireless. I could not find a N access point anywhere. PC World had (a) G access points (b) USB 2 dongles for N access, neither of which were any good for older Macs. In the end I have installed the Netgear "200Mb" (max) mains ethernet, with one ethernet cable going to my timeport and another to the imac at the other end of the house. The N wireless remains useful for my newer Mac book.

After a lot of tweaking the mains ethernet is now doing very well. At the very far end of the house with old, dodgy wiring, I get 30Mbs now, rather more than my internet connection, peaking at 6.5, and way more than wireless ever got. I have added some other plugs to connect a PS3 - this is slightly closer to the router and gets 100Mbs ish. I have tried a direct cat6 connection with a 25M cable to test the quality - it does not improve matters, i.e., my bottlenecks are now not in the linkups but in things like HD access and net access.

So I guess my point is that for an even bigger, and presumably static Mac G5, you might find this an easier route.

I do remain mystified why a cheap stand alone N to ethernet access point is so hard to source - with an iMac I did not have a PCI option of course.
 

applemax

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 22, 2005
1,032
3
I guess you took it the wrong way after all....

Most people come asking for a solution to a problem. I've never seen anyone ask for a solution that had to look a certain way. My curiosity was peaked. I was hoping you'd explain to satisfy MY curiosity, as well as to possibly find a DIFFERENT answer to your problem. End of story.

By the way, your explanation "I don't want my house littered with grey cabling" is quite flimsy, in my humble opinion. One ethernet cable, in color of your choice, hardly constitutes littering a house with grey cabling. A single 6" cable for $.69 in any color you want would solve your problem, and Airport Express could sit directly behind the G5 with no exposed cables:

http://www.showmecables.com/showProducts.asp?category_id=268&gclid=CL2Ky7Oe6p4CFRYaagodjVF4Ew

And that still doesn't explain why it has to LOOK a certain way. Why would it HAVE to have Airport status bars at the top?? If I directed you to an internal n card that worked in your G5 but had different network status bars on the toolbar than Airport's, why would you turn it down? According to you, your only stated phobia of grey cables would be addressed.

Anyway, good luck getting an n network on a G5...a single white cable, neatly tucked away and connected to an Airport Extreme, solved that little problem for me for quite a while now.
You are truly unbelievable! The computer and the router are very far away from each other and we simply cannot lay down cabling due to the way the house is. And I want it to use the AirPort interface and software so I can administrate the base station and so I don't have to faff around with third-party software and other crap, that's all.

I'm still bemused as to why you'd think I'd be doing this on someone else's computer - what would be the point in that? Some sort of prank that speeds up their network performance? Yeah, I'm going to shell out my own money to do that, aren't I. Get a grip, ffs.
 

applemax

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 22, 2005
1,032
3
Thinking more generally. I wanted to add an older iMac G4 to my house network (and to do so a long way from the router), recently updated to use a timeport with N wireless. I could not find a N access point anywhere. PC World had (a) G access points (b) USB 2 dongles for N access, neither of which were any good for older Macs. In the end I have installed the Netgear "200Mb" (max) mains ethernet, with one ethernet cable going to my timeport and another to the imac at the other end of the house. The N wireless remains useful for my newer Mac book.

After a lot of tweaking the mains ethernet is now doing very well. At the very far end of the house with old, dodgy wiring, I get 30Mbs now, rather more than my internet connection, peaking at 6.5, and way more than wireless ever got. I have added some other plugs to connect a PS3 - this is slightly closer to the router and gets 100Mbs ish. I have tried a direct cat6 connection with a 25M cable to test the quality - it does not improve matters, i.e., my bottlenecks are now not in the linkups but in things like HD access and net access.

So I guess my point is that for an even bigger, and presumably static Mac G5, you might find this an easier route.

I do remain mystified why a cheap stand alone N to ethernet access point is so hard to source - with an iMac I did not have a PCI option of course.
Yeah, I'm getting around 1Mb on my G5 over 802.11G at the moment. I tested with my MacBook Pro in the same location and that got 270Mb over 802.11N. I should point out that my main base station is a dual-band AirPort.

I guess I'll have to purchase an AirPort Express and extend the network, but it's a bit pricy compared to dongles and PCI cards.
 

dcpmark

macrumors 6502a
Oct 20, 2009
911
668
The computer and the router are very far away from each other and we simply cannot lay down cabling due to the way the house is.
Perhaps you are not understanding my solution to your problem.

An Airport Express CAN act just like an internal Airport card when connected via Ethernet. You CAN have WDS on an N Airport network (it is a MYTH that you can't.....the option is just hidden in menus). You CAN wirelessly administer every Apple wireless device on the Network using the Airport Utility on the G5 (after a one-time hard connection during setup). The only difference is that in the toolbar you will see a Network status bar that indicates you are connected via ethernet, rather than the Airport statis bars.

If you stop acting like a prissy old queen who has had her honor besmirched for just a second, I might be able to help you!!!!!
 

applemax

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 22, 2005
1,032
3
Perhaps you are not understanding my solution to your problem.

An Airport Express CAN act just like an internal Airport card when connected via Ethernet. You CAN have WDS on an N Airport network (it is a MYTH that you can't.....the option is just hidden in menus). You CAN wirelessly administer every Apple wireless device on the Network using the Airport Utility on the G5 (after a one-time hard connection during setup). The only difference is that in the toolbar you will see a Network status bar that indicates you are connected via ethernet, rather than the Airport statis bars.

If you stop acting like a prissy old queen who has had her honor besmirched for just a second, I might be able to help you!!!!!
And if you stop acting like an irritating and ignorant cock, then I might listen.

And, just to enlighten you, WDS does not work on N networks at all. WDS, as a technology, is limited to 54Mbps only. For N networks you have to click the checkbox marked 'Extend this network'. Besides, a PCI card costs around £25 whereas an AirPort express and ethernet cable can reach nearly £100, so it is simply not financially viable to do that.