Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

iGav

macrumors G3
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
SpookTheHamster said:
As I said, when you have your foot on the clutch, the release bearing is not being lubricated.

You're worrying about clutch bearings, yet you're not concerned about doing 30 in 4th and skipping gears whilst accelerating. ;) :p
 

TMA

macrumors 6502a
Jan 6, 2003
933
1
England
In most cars I have driven you are, according to the operating instructions, supposed to drop the clutch before starting the car. This has been the case in all 4 cars I have owned to date.

As I understand it, this takes a little bit of load off the starter and means that the clutch and starter last a little longer.

Most people don't do this though for some reason :confused:
 

~L~

macrumors member
Aug 15, 2006
51
0
as others have said, a good piece of advice is to let the clutch up slowly when you are in 1st and the car is at a standstill, otherwise you just stall. :)

basically be gentle with the clutch, and manual should be pretty easy to learn for you =)
 

patrick0brien

macrumors 68040
Oct 24, 2002
3,246
9
The West Loop
-Alag28

Not to scare you, but the most difficult thing I can remember about learning manual was the downshift - especially around corners. Be ready.

BTW- I used to love manual - then I moved to the land verrrry close to San Francisco and I realized that driving was hard enough w/o having the left thigh of a linebacker.
 

mactastic

macrumors 68040
Apr 24, 2003
3,681
665
Colly-fornia
patrick0brien said:
BTW- I used to love manual - then I moved to the land verrrry close to San Francisco and I realized that driving was hard enough w/o having the left thigh of a linebacker.
Heh, try driving a manual-shift U-Haul through SF during rush hour. Somehow I got roped into that role a few years ago.

SF really separates the men from the boys, so to speak, when it comes to driving a stick.

-------------------

My dad taught me by taking me to a secluded spot, parking the car pointing uphill, about halfway up a fairly steep hill, getting out, and telling me that we weren't leaving until I could get the car going myself. It took me about 45 minutes.

I've driven nothing but stick until I bought my truck recently, and boy do I miss it. At the time I didn't have a lot of practice or confidence towing things, so I opted for one less thing on my mind, but having done it enough times now I should have made them bring me a manual. I'm never buying an auto again, even in a truck, and even if I lived in SF. Too damn boring to drive.
 

patrick0brien

macrumors 68040
Oct 24, 2002
3,246
9
The West Loop
mactastic said:
SF really separates the men from the boys, so to speak, when it comes to driving a stick.

-mactastic

Not only was it physically involved, but there was something really scary about gunning the engine into the clutch out of a stop with nothing but blue sky in front of me. Only in SF, only in SF...
 

mactastic

macrumors 68040
Apr 24, 2003
3,681
665
Colly-fornia
patrick0brien said:
-mactastic

Not only was it physically involved, but there was something really scary about gunning the engine into the clutch out of a stop with nothing but blue sky in front of me. Only in SF, only in SF...
Talk about a leap of faith...
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,397
12,520
I miss driving a stick but gave it up since I spend so much of my windshield time in traffic. Just too much of a damn hassle in stop and go driving.
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Mar 4, 2005
4,155
442
.. London ..
evoluzione said:
i always have the car in 1st when waiting at lights etc, much safer if you need to get out of some idiots way if they don't see the red light, or whatever, maybe they're on their cellphone or something (has happened to me before, thank goodness i was looking in my rearview!)

I can't drive (yet) even tho I'm 30 - was taking driving lessons last year till my new baby got in the way - but I was told by my instructor that this is actually illegal in the UK.

When the road is closed in front of you - ie. traffic lights are red, or someone is walking in front of you on a zebra crossing, you are meant to have the handbrake on.

Holding the car with the footbrake, especially with the gears in 1st, with someone crossing in front of you is regarded as a dangerous practice.

We have small roads here, not sure where you'd go if you were stopped at a crossing or a red, and someone 'was coming up fast behind you'. :confused:
 

patrick0brien

macrumors 68040
Oct 24, 2002
3,246
9
The West Loop
RedTomato said:
you are meant to have the handbrake on.

-RedTomato

This is interesting to me as when I was instructed, and I've never seen any law in any state to the contrary, that a person, while at stop would stay using footbrake (and in neutral preferrably - not required), because if somebody were to come up behind too quickly, the brake could be released to lessen any impact - I distinctly remember hearing those words in class.
 

dukebound85

macrumors Core
Jul 17, 2005
19,123
4,097
5045 feet above sea level
Kwyjibo said:
The thing thats different about a manual transmission is that you actually drive with the parking brake on, as opposed to off like in an automatic, I can't explain it too technically but it has to do with the johnson rod.


Ummmmm are you sure? no you definitly have the parking brake disengaged when you drive any type a car.

It really depends on the car. My car is stick and yea you get a feel for shifting more on the engine noise than the speed. If someone tells me the gear and the rpms of my engine, i can tell you how fast the car is going. It's kinda cool how you develope that

Granted, saying that when I worked at a dealership, you have to adjust to cars that are manual but different from your own. My friend let me drive his cobra (500hp man was it fun) but I had a 5 min period to get used to how the car behaves. Some cars, the clutch is alot more responsive and less travel than others.


As far as starting the car, I always thought you had to have the clutch in so you would have the engine disengaged from the gears. Starting in neutral may work but I will never do it. Just like I always press the clutch when i break (do to usually having to shift anyways)


I want to learn how to ride a sport bike but I feel my driving a stick will screw with my head since on a sport bike, you gas with your hand and shift with the feet. Kinda complete opposite of a manual car
 

dukebound85

macrumors Core
Jul 17, 2005
19,123
4,097
5045 feet above sea level
RedTomato said:
I can't drive (yet) even tho I'm 30 - was taking driving lessons last year till my new baby got in the way - but I was told by my instructor that this is actually illegal in the UK.

When the road is closed in front of you - ie. traffic lights are red, or someone is walking in front of you on a zebra crossing, you are meant to have the handbrake on.

Holding the car with the footbrake, especially with the gears in 1st, with someone crossing in front of you is regarded as a dangerous practice.

We have small roads here, not sure where you'd go if you were stopped at a crossing or a red, and someone 'was coming up fast behind you'. :confused:


How is that dangerous, I do it all the time. I mean having the car in first on a stick is not like an auto. You have to work the feet for the car to actually move whereas an automatic will move forward if you even take your foot of the brake on level ground. A manual car will not do that, it will stay still. Seems like automatics are more dangerous in that situation




One thing I love about manuals is i feel i have complete control over the car since you have to be a bit more involved in the driving of it
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Mar 4, 2005
4,155
442
.. London ..
patrick0brien said:
-RedTomato

This is interesting to me as when I was instructed, and I've never seen any law in any state to the contrary, that a person, while at stop would stay using footbrake (and in neutral preferrably - not required), because if somebody were to come up behind too quickly, the brake could be released to lessen any impact - I distinctly remember hearing those words in class.

It seems to be 'highly reccomended' rather than 'mandatory' to put the handbrake on when stopped.

Note that UK traffic lights have different patterns to the USA. Here, an orange light comes on (while the red is still on) a couple of seconds before going green. The orange is to 'give you time to prepare and avoid drag racing starts'

http://www.2pass.co.uk/faqpract.htm#thirty

Q When do you use the handbrake apart from when parked the car. Do you always have to apply the handbrake when stopped on a hill?

A The handbrake is used to secure the car when you park it or are stationary for more than a few moments. It is also used to help you time moving off into gaps in the traffic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_light

In the UK, Hong Kong, mainland China, Germany, Poland, and Iceland, among others, the sequence includes red + amber together before green, which helps draw attention to the impending change to green, to allow drivers to prepare to move off. (In many of these jurisdictions, such as the UK, it is customary for drivers to select neutral and/or use the handbrake at red lights; the additional phase gives the driver time to select first gear/release the handbrake before the light turns green).

Ozzie driving school guidelines:

http://www.driving-school.com.au/faq.htm#faq3
Is it necessary to apply the handbrake every time you stop?

In a manual vehicle - yes. Use the hand brake even on a level ground take-off. It frees up the right foot to get ready on the accelerator. Stopping with the clutch down and no handbrake, a car may move by a gust of wind, without the driver realizing.

In manual and automatic vehicles, during a prolonged stop (at traffic lights, especially when pedestrians are crossing right in front of you), it is also advisable to apply the handbrake and shift the gear lever into N (neutral). Do the same anytime whilst temporarily parked, (to check the roadmap, searching for an object in the glove box or while talking to someone in the driveway etc). The car is safe while attending other matters.

Starting on a hill, even an automatic car can roll back, if the gradient is steep enough. Apply the handbrake firmly. Before take-off, give a little acceleration just before releasing the handbrake.
 

DeSnousa

macrumors 68000
Jan 20, 2005
1,616
0
Brisbane, Australia
Starting on a hill, even an automatic car can roll back, if the gradient is steep enough. Apply the handbrake firmly. Before take-off, give a little acceleration just before releasing the handbrake.

That has always been my problem as I approach my driving test, finding the point of balance is easy when I don't use the brake take-off, but when I do use the brake take-off, especially on a large hill, I get nervous and stall quite regularly :eek: I don't know why, but that is what happens, although it is slowly starting to get better.

It's weird because I hear the tonal change which I assume is the point of balance, I release the brake, and off I roll backwards. So I guess out habit I release the clutch to much.

Who else hates brake take-off's? My mate says he never uses it, he says that you get used to finding the point of balance that you only roll back and inch or two at the most, even on hills?
 

dukebound85

macrumors Core
Jul 17, 2005
19,123
4,097
5045 feet above sea level
DeSnousa said:
That has always been my problem as I approach my driving test, finding the point of balance is easy when I don't use the brake take-off, but when I do use the brake take-off, especially on a large hill, I get nervous and stall quite regularly :eek: I don't know why, but that is what happens, although it is slowly starting to get better.

It's weird because I hear the tonal change which I assume is the point of balance, I release the brake, and off I roll backwards. So I guess out habit I release the clutch to much.

Who else hates brake take-off's? My mate says he never uses it, he says that you get used to finding the point of balance that you only roll back and inch or two at the most, even on hills?

That was the one issue I was most worried about when i did my test. Now all I do is start as I normally would. If you apply enough gas before you drop the clutch the car will not roll back far at all. Just have to get used to it
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Mar 4, 2005
4,155
442
.. London ..
DeSnousa said:
That has always been my problem as I approach my driving test, finding the point of balance is easy when I don't use the brake take-off, but when I do use the brake take-off, especially on a large hill, I get nervous and stall quite regularly :eek: I don't know why, but that is what happens, although it is slowly starting to get better.

It's weird because I hear the tonal change which I assume is the point of balance, I release the brake, and off I roll backwards. So I guess out habit I release the clutch to much.

Who else hates brake take-off's? My mate says he never uses it, he says that you get used to finding the point of balance that you only roll back and inch or two at the most, even on hills?

you need more gas :) start with a bit more, and if it's a steep hill, a lot more.

As someone said above, driving a truck in SF, he had to floor the gas while hill starting, with nothing but blue sky visible in the windscreen...

In the uk, rolling back, even half an inch, is a instant fail in the driving test. Hmm, I did a lot of hill starts while learning...

PS braking and riding the clutch (or going round a corner while on the clutch) is also a fail as the car/ engine 'is not under control'.

Yes, UK driving tests are bloody hard. I failed twice even tho I've held a full motorbike licence for 10 years and have ridden the length of the UK and Spain.

(pps. it seems to be illegal for deaf people to ride a motorbike in spain, tho it didn't seem to bother the helpful cops who gave me some route advice near Madrid)
 

Clydefrog

macrumors 6502a
Feb 24, 2006
593
0
Pittsburgh,PA
i am learning on a stick, and i am making excellent progress. I think the hardest thing for me is starting/catching thr cluth on a hill, but if i do no feel comfortable i just use the handbrake
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
DeSnousa said:
My mate says he never uses it, he says that you get used to finding the point of balance that you only roll back and inch or two at the most, even on hills?

That comes with experience, knowing the characteristics of the car beneath you and some very fast footwork.

As long as you're familiar with the biting point, pretty much regardless of the severity of the incline of the hill you're on, you should not even roll back... at all. Left foot on clutch, right on brake, as you come off the brake also start coming off the clutch, get the biting point for the idling speed of the car (I do it by sound, some do it by feel, others by the tachometer) this momentarily takes the slack by which time you're already on the accelerator, thus stopping the car from rolling back (even a mm if you're good) or stalling.

Puts enormous strain on the clutch though, and certainly you wouldn't want to do it all the time.
 

DeSnousa

macrumors 68000
Jan 20, 2005
1,616
0
Brisbane, Australia
Thanks for your comments, I have a driiving lesson tommorow so I will let you know if I will do better. I think the main problem is getting nervous on a hill with rolling back, I need to chill some more :)
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
DeSnousa said:
I think the main problem is getting nervous on a hill with rolling back, I need to chill some more :)

You know what they say... practice etc etc ;) you can practice finding your biting point on a flat road, it doesn't have to be on incline... the principle is the same.

One of the best methods I know of teaching clutch control, is to sit on an incline (doesn't have to be a road, a driveway will do dandy) and practice rolling and creeping using just the accelerator and clutch, obviously it's not very good for the clutch... but you'll master pedal modulation and control in about an hour. ;)
 

4409723

Suspended
Jun 22, 2001
2,221
0
RedTomato said:
In the uk, rolling back, even half an inch, is a instant fail in the driving test. Hmm, I did a lot of hill starts while learning...

As somebody who recently passed my UK driving test I'm quite sure that rolling backwards is not an automatic fail depending on the conditions.

If say you are doing a 3 point turn and roll towards the kerb during the reversing stage you will get a minor for control.
 

bartelby

macrumors Core
Jun 16, 2004
19,795
34
Wes said:
As somebody who recently passed my UK driving test I'm quite sure that rolling backwards is not an automatic fail depending on the conditions.

If say you are doing a 3 point turn and roll towards the kerb during the reversing stage you will get a minor for control.


I'm about to book my test and rolling backwards at a junction is a fault that will fail you the test.

Rolling backwards because of the camber of the road whilst doing a "turn in road" (no longer called 3 point turn as you only get a minor for doing a 5 point turn) may or may not get you a minor. It depends on the Examiner.
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Mar 4, 2005
4,155
442
.. London ..
You're right, rolling back a bit while doing a "a turn in road' is not a fail.

Touching the kerb at any point, while going back or forth is a fail.

Rolling back while doing a hill start is also a fail.

I failed my first driving test for waiting too long at a roundabout - the tester said I drove too slowly!

(It was a busy roundabout and I had an old skoda that leaped forward with all the madcap pace of a rheumatic snail.... )
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.