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MovieCutter

macrumors 68040
May 3, 2005
3,342
2
Washington, DC
I'm not refusing anything! Don't try to judge me.

We're not trying, we ARE. You're a piss poor manager of money (All the computers in your sig, "a poor college student" my ass, and you bought an iPhone 4 when you couldn't afford it in the first place) and you deposited a check that you knowingly knew would come back to bite you in the ass. Now, nothing may come of this from Apple's end, but karma is a bitch...

Time for an economics 101 course dude...
 

chrmjenkins

macrumors 603
Oct 29, 2007
5,325
158
MD
I agree with Calboy. Let apple know you intend to give them the money back but can't at the moment. Learn your lesson and start managing your money better.
 

eawmp1

macrumors 601
Feb 19, 2008
4,158
91
FL
Grow up and do the right thing. Trying to get something for free and then getting its equivalent cash back too. You are not poor by the hardware in your sigs and your apparent ability to pay an expensive monthly smartphone plan.

So you go without 15 pizzas. This is a life lesson for you more valuable than your college education.
 

PinkyMacGodess

Suspended
Mar 7, 2007
10,271
6,226
Midwest America.
I had the same thing happen with an IMac that I had that dropped the hard drive. I was told that I needed ProCare to get the repair done in less than three weeks (which I bought), and then when I got it back it was screwed up WORSE. I called AppleCare and complained and next thing I know I'm getting a call from Cupertino wanting me to send my IMac to them. I hesitated because I didn't want to be without it, even though it was a mess, and the next day I got a brand new aluminum IMac. The next day I received a check from Apple for the cost of the IMac. I asked them why I got the check and they said because at the time they were going to refund my purchase price but when I elected to accept the 'replacement' I forfeited the check, which I got anyway. I still have it here somewhere. IF I would have cashed the check I would be guilty of theft. Basically committing some form of fraud or 'conversion'. Whatever that means, according to a friend. Apple would have, at that point that I cashed the check, been able to sue me for it even though it was their mistake...

Apple needs to, and it's hard to write this, be slower and more deliberate in dealing with customers and have more control and awareness over what the various levels of the corporation are doing so that the refund people know what the PR/customer service people are doing. The second that the IMac replacement became an option, the check should have been unprintable from their system. They risk the distinct possibility of someone cashing the check and keeping the IMac and 'disappearing' to be unavailable to recover their money, or the computer... One could argue that it's their fault. I think in my case, Apple would have prevailed because they acted in 'good faith' that I would accept the new IMac in place of the check, and either return or destroy the check. If I decided to keep both, I would not be acting in 'good faith' and would be then guilty of a crime. Stand there saying that it's Apple's fault would look pretty weak...

Although you have to wonder how a 'free' Touch could be entered into the system as a 'purchase' and generate a refund check... Still, the 'right thing' is to return the money immediately. The 'honorable thing'...

People need to think less of themselves and more of the greater good. Of doing the right thing. If more in Wall Street thought that way, this country and the rest of the world wouldn't be hugging to toilet and a whole lot of people in Africa and other points of the world wouldn't have starved to death a few years ago. On a soapbox here, but ethics and morality MUST be at the core of a civilized society and must be at the core of business and shock of shocks, politics. Otherwise we become a soul less and treacherous corpse of a country that no one will trust... Just think if we all totally lost all trust in politics (I'm nearly there myself). Lost all trust in corporations (I'm there already). What a world it would be... Off soapbox... Ironic that so many religions value ethics and morality and how many practitioners of those religions don't.
 

Synchromesh

macrumors 6502a
Jul 15, 2009
619
121
SF
There is always two sides to anything. And the other side is how often does the customer get to screw Apple and not the other way around? Not too often, is it? So this may be your chance. Just throwing it out there.

Attempting to call them and cry about being a poor college student may work. In worst case you won't lose much, maybe 30 mins on a phone call. And if they insist, give greedy uncle Steve his money back by selling one of your toys in sig, asking parents or getting a job.
 

Macky-Mac

macrumors 68040
May 18, 2004
3,501
2,549
....Of course in practice it's pretty simple for Apple to get the judgement, but in reality the $200 it seeks to get is probably less than the cost of getting the judgement......

or I suppose they could close his itunes account which wouldn't require a judgement or cost them anything
 

ValSalva

macrumors 68040
Jun 26, 2009
3,783
259
Burpelson AFB
If the defendant loses in small claims he/she has to pay for the filing fee. However unless Apple has a bunch of people to sue in that court the cost of paying someone to file and appear will be more than the $200 they are seeking to recover.

Ethically it's more complex. It's easy to see things in black and white and say it's stealing, end of story. Apple is a 40+ billion dollar company. $200 is completely meaningless to them. Apple is a corporation, not a human being. Apple made the mistake. Apple should man up and let it go. If I ran Apple I'd let it go.
 

quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,904
2,325
I would ask your parents to help out if they can and then pay them back later. Because IMHO, it is a whole lot easier to be in debt to your parents then be in debt with companies, etc.

Either way, give Apple the money back. I bet you would be doing the same thing if Apple double charged you.
 

ucfgrad93

macrumors Core
Aug 17, 2007
19,532
10,820
Colorado
If the defendant loses in small claims he/she has to pay for the filing fee. However unless Apple has a bunch of people to sue in that court the cost of paying someone to file and appear will be more than the $200 they are seeking to recover.

Ethically it's more complex. It's easy to see things in black and white and say it's stealing, end of story. Apple is a 40+ billion dollar company. $200 is completely meaningless to them. Apple is a corporation, not a human being. Apple made the mistake. Apple should man up and let it go. If I ran Apple I'd let it go.

So if it was a local small business it would be stealing? ;)

Ethically, it is the equivalent of a hanging curve ball in baseball. It is a no-brainer in case you don't really follow baseball. Apple issued a $200 refund to the OP in error. Apple has since asked for it back. Refusing to give it back, when the OP has even acknowledged that he shouldn't have gotten the money, is stealing.
 

zioxide

macrumors 603
Dec 11, 2006
5,737
3,726
Tell them its their mistake that they didn't explain the rebate system correctly to you and you didn't know that you weren't supposed to get the $200 check.

Then keep the money. You need it a lot more than a 40 billion dollar megacorporation needs it.
 

ValSalva

macrumors 68040
Jun 26, 2009
3,783
259
Burpelson AFB
So if it was a local small business it would be stealing? ;)

Ethically, it is the equivalent of a hanging curve ball in baseball. It is a no-brainer in case you don't really follow baseball. Apple issued a $200 refund to the OP in error. Apple has since asked for it back. Refusing to give it back, when the OP has even acknowledged that he shouldn't have gotten the money, is stealing.

I never said it wasn't stealing. But even the law allows for levels and degrees of stealing. This is just about the lowest degree of stealing. It's very low because the difference in worth between the two parties is astonishing, the amount is low, and is further mitigated by the fact that Apple sent the check to the OP.

It's not worth Apple to pursue. Big and small businesses know this and don't waste their time pursuing 'small fish' for small amounts of money owed to them due to their own mistake.
 

zioxide

macrumors 603
Dec 11, 2006
5,737
3,726
Threads like this make me realize how morally bankrupt as a society we are...OP and this dude I quoted I hope you don't plan on teaching your children that it's ok to steal...:(:eek::mad:

It's not stealing. Apple shouldn't have sent him the check. They made the mistake. They failed to correctly explain the rebate process to him.

All I know is that I'm also a college student who's barely been able to scrape by for the past year and a half because of the current economic conditions (I had to overdraft my account a few times just to be able to eat a meal for the day!). $200 is a HUGE amount of money to me while it's just pennies to Apple who has made over $10 billion in net income over just the past year. If I was in that situation and had spent all of the money already, there's no way I'd be giving them that money back.

I'm not necessarily saying that its the morally right thing to do, but at this point I really don't care. Morals have gone out the window in our society today.

As far as the OP goes, you don't exactly look like a "poor college student" with your two brand new Macs and brand new iPhone 4. You're lucky to be able to afford stuff like that, and if Apple keeps insisting you give the money back, then you could sell one of those computers to do it. You're one person, you don't need two computers. Try using a single 3+ year old computer that has overheating problems because you can barely afford to put dinner on the table, let alone buy a brand new computer. That's a real "poor college student."
 

ValSalva

macrumors 68040
Jun 26, 2009
3,783
259
Burpelson AFB
so you're saying the law allows stealing?? :eek:

Having trouble reading? ;)

The law differentiates between breaking into a bank or store armed with guns and stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars versus cashing a check mistakenly sent to you. In the eyes of the law there is a difference. But both are stealing, as I said.

The OP shouldn't have cashed the check, bottom line. He knew it was sent to him by mistake because he already had the free iPod. Knowing the law and that he won't be sent to jail for 5-10 years he's taking a calculated risk by refusing to repay the money. Given the law, it's a low risk.
 

ucfgrad93

macrumors Core
Aug 17, 2007
19,532
10,820
Colorado
It's not stealing. Apple shouldn't have sent him the check. They made the mistake. They failed to correctly explain the rebate process to him.

Yes, Apple made a mistake or several. They have since contacted the OP and are asking for the money back. If he doesn't give it back, then it is clearly stealing.

I'm not necessarily saying that its the morally right thing to do, but at this point I really don't care. Morals have gone out the window in our society today.

So instead of trying to turn this sorry state of affairs around, you just say "Well, everyone else is doing it!" That is pretty sad, in my opinion.

As far as the OP goes, you don't exactly look like a "poor college student" with your two brand new Macs and brand new iPhone 4. You're lucky to be able to afford stuff like that, and if Apple keeps insisting you give the money back, then you could sell one of those computers to do it. You're one person, you don't need two computers. Try using a single 3+ year old computer that has overheating problems because you can barely afford to put dinner on the table, let alone buy a brand new computer. That's a real "poor college student."

Agreed.
 

zioxide

macrumors 603
Dec 11, 2006
5,737
3,726
So instead of trying to turn this sorry state of affairs around, you just say "Well, everyone else is doing it!" That is pretty sad, in my opinion.

It's not worth it. This whole country is going down the ******* and me trying to fix it isn't going to help anything. It's out of control.
 

highres

macrumors 6502a
Jul 1, 2005
519
4
Near the Singularity
Some pretty astonishing replies in this thread.

To the OP: Do the right thing.

1. Apple was generous enough to give you a free iPod Touch and then mistakenly sent you the rebate check as well.

2. You then repay that generosity and goodwill by taking the iPod as well as the rebate check. I am sure you were well aware that what you were doing was wrong but reasoned that since it was Apple's mistake that made it ok and if nobody noticed then it would just slide by.

3. You then proceeded to spend the money but are now in a bind because Apple is asking for it back, and rightly so.

Conclusion: Do the right thing. Pay Apple back promptly and manage your money more responsibly in the future.
 

treyjustice

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 14, 2009
1,252
141
TX
I've been waiting for a reply from apple because they called me when I was at Wal-Mart. The lady said she'd send me an email stating all the information. I'm guessing they decided not to pursue it. I've found the law and it is their error and I am not obligated to pay it back, although I have no problem doing so. I called the Austin, Tx number back that called me but they said they have no record of me. So IDK!
 

snberk103

macrumors 603
Oct 22, 2007
5,503
91
An Island in the Salish Sea
I think the OP wants to do the right thing, but is just a little constrained at the moment.

There is a way to handle this in way that might work.

Call the person you talked to at Apple, and offer to pay the $200 back. Explain that you are a poor student, if you have student loans mention those, then offer a payment plan - $10 or $20 a month until it's paid off. I'll bet they write off the debt as "good will". You have offered to do the right thing and return money that is not yours. Apple wins by being able to put a ticky mark in their goodwill column. Even if Apple accepts your offer, you win because now you can spread the payments out to more affordable (for you) level.

Good Luck.
 

gdanko

macrumors newbie
Dec 23, 2003
10
0
Escondido, CA
You tightwad

Pony up the $200 or sell your iPhone to cover it. It was YOUR mistake and it's not up to Apple to cover your expenses. Don't spend money that isn't yours.
 

huntnboy04

macrumors regular
Apr 11, 2007
162
5
MI, USA
I've been waiting for a reply from apple because they called me when I was at Wal-Mart. The lady said she'd send me an email stating all the information. I'm guessing they decided not to pursue it. I've found the law and it is their error and I am not obligated to pay it back, although I have no problem doing so. I called the Austin, Tx number back that called me but they said they have no record of me. So IDK!

Apple probably looked at your sig and then decided to get you next time....:cool:
 
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