I Share, You Share, Time Share

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Huntn, Sep 1, 2011.

  1. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #1
    My wife dragged me to a presentation for Silverleaf Resorts (Conroe, Tx), the promise was a $40 Visa Card, a Cruise, a Vacation (Hawaii), and a chance at a $50k car. Well, you know we did not win the car, the $1500 shopping spree, or $500 cash. My guess is it would be the vacation which does not include airline tickets and yes it was. ;)

    Overall the deal did not seem that bad when considering over seas vacations. Pay $15k, get one week a year in any of the 14 Silverleaf properties scattered around the country. Turn in the week and get a week in any of the international properties (a very large list) for $199 for a week. And buy unlimited bonus time at any of the resorts for $75 a night. One thing that jumped out was a monthly $75 maintenance fee ($900 annual) forever that is subject to change, ie, go up.

    What irritated me was the high pressure sales pitch as in this deal is only good for today. That is pure BS. And I resisted purchase. I was curious if we have any time share owners among our readers and if so, what do you think about them?
     
  2. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #2
    I was hit with a similar sales pitch once upon a time. Very high pressure, lots of uncertainty, and yes, it was good for that day only. I passed.
     
  3. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #3
    I've been on the sales side of the business, and I can say with certainty it's not a good idea. I've worked with Silverleaf as well (and with a lot of Piney Shores owners). The one reason why people buy into these is because of the ability to trade the week through RCI. What they won't tell you during the presentation is that it's almost impossible to trade any of the Silverleaf properties in Texas for a week anywhere else. I'm sure they glossed over trading power, but it's really, really difficult to trade to the popular places (NY, Orlando, Vegas, resorts in Mexico) because RCI wants to make sure they can trade your week. And forget about Europe.

    Needless to say, Lake Conroe is not a popular (or even known) destination. So, unless you want to spend a week at Piney Shores every year it's an awful deal. And bonus time is a joke. You'll get turned down 10 times before they find a resort and a date to fit you in.

    If you're really interested, there's no reason to pay 15K either. People are giving them away for unpaid maintenance fees.
     
  4. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #4
    for maybe 15 years my sister has owned a timeshare that she bought "used".......there's next to no resale market for these things so you can pick up a "used" one for much much cheaper than a "new" one.

    She's swapped the location a number of times over the years. Not surprisingly, it's hard to find openings at some really popular destinations.

    She and her husband live where there's snow in the winter so they often swap for a timeshare in arizona where they can play golf for a week
     
  5. steve2112 macrumors 68040

    steve2112

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    #5
    Yeah, run, don't walk away. Time shares are a horrible investment. You are stuck going to the same place every year, and you can't get rid of the things. $15k will buy a lot of hotel nights.
     
  6. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #6
    Please, help me get my head around this number.

    You have use for one week a year, but have to pay $900 a year for that one unit/week?

    If so, they can accumulate $900 x 52 = $46,800 for one fully-sold unit???

    Please find a flaw in my logic, so I might sleep tonight. :eek:
     
  7. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #7
    You could use that annual $900 maintenance fee, plus a fraction of that $15k and get you a really nice hotel in whatever city you want to visit, you won't be tied to cities they have properties in.

    Sounds like a complete ripoff to me.

    No, that sounds about right. Consider the fact that the building might have 100 units - nearly half a million a year. I think I'm in the wrong business.
     
  8. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #8
    You're not helping. :( :D

    And you are missing a zero in your number, it's ~$5M a year. :p
     
  9. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #9
    He's talking American dollars. :p
     
  10. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #10
    Just wait until the property wants to do a major renovation. "Owners" are on the hook for their percentage of the cost (over and above the annual maintenance fee).
     
  11. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #11
    That's what I get for trying to do math so early in the morning :p
     
  12. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #12
    And if you want to get out of it, you have to attempt to sell your unit through them.

    I can just imagine people walking away from their $15K in frustration.

    Sounds a lot like Glengarry Glen Ross. We'll send Alec Baldwin after you. :eek:
     
  13. dXTC macrumors 68020

    dXTC

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    #13
    My mother-in-law got into a points-based timeshare with Wyndham. Although Wyndham has a large number of resorts in many of the places she wants to go, she still paid too much. On top of that, she let the sales staff "upgrade" her... twice. (Her late husband had handled the finances, so she doesn't have the best money sense.)

    While using one of her weeks as a guest at Bonnet Creek Resort (inside the Walt Disney World area-- it's rather nice, I'll admit, and I recommend it if you can get in), we decided to sit through one of these pitches to get $100 in Disney gift cards. We successfully resisted the sales pressure, and got to take a peek into just how much she had been taken for. What an eye-opener. Sure, Wyndham has some nice resorts with decent amenities (Ocean Walk in Daytona Beach, Wyndham Smoky Mountains in Sevierville TN, the aforementioned Bonnet Creek at Disney) and Wyndham trades very easily with RCI, but the maintenance fees alone could fund a decent hotel for a week or two. We had a discussion with her after that. She hasn't been "upgraded" since, to the dismay of Wyndham sales staff who had her initially pegged, and correctly so, as an easy target.

    Unfortunately, my wife and her sister were named as beneficiaries, so we'll be stuck with this deal when my mother-in-law passes away, provided she hasn't got out of it by then.
     
  14. fcortese macrumors demi-god

    fcortese

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    Big Sky country
    #14
    time shares in this economy-it may be a good idea to buy because so many are trying to get rid of theirs (yours truly included). However, you will get trapped in a cycle of increasing maintenance fees and are you really going to be using it yearly? Rental possibilities are a crap shot. Looking back, timeshares sound intriguing but I would recommend against it.
     
  15. Huntn, Sep 2, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
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    The Misty Mountains
    #15
    Thanks people for reconfirming that my instincts were right! Especially helpful Moyank about using the RCI. You know there are 4 Silverleaf properties in Texas. So I walk away with the notion if you ever want to invest in a time share, it should be in a desirable location. Also a warning, the sales pitch is aggressive. We ended up speaking to 3 people telling them "no". The manager even tried to talk us into signing a temp agreement for 1 year which allowed us to "lock in" their bargain, including 6 nights, and unlimited day use of the facility for only $1000! I finally had to tell him it was time to move on. And what aggravated me is the nature of the deal, only offered today, never to be repeated, because you are "now in the system", a real indicator of a high pressure sales pitch, maybe a scam.

    Thanks for the clarification, very helpful. I was thinking what if you stop paying your maintenance fee. Is this something they can sue you over? And I assume if you go for 10 years not paying the fee, they will expect you to pay that($9000 in maintenance fees) back before regaining access? Can you just give the warranty deed back to them no questions asked? ;)

    Thanks! :)

    So yes, if the structure is such that each unit, offers 1 week per owner, it brings in $46800 a year into eternity. What's not to understand? ;)

    So one unit if sold as 52- 1 week slots sells for approximately $800000. ($15600x 52= $811200) then add the maintenance fees $46800 per year ($900x 53).

    For an individual deed, I did a quick calculation for 10 years= $15600 purchase, $9000 ($75x12months x10 years) = a total 10 year expense of $24600 for 1 week of vacation per year. Now take $24600/200= 123 nights @$200 per night. Figure 1 week of vacation per year = approx 17 years. So it only takes 17 years to break even without a guarantee you can go to any of the 14 properties the company I looked at, has.

    Now I will say, that my parent in-laws have two time shares and they have been successful on occasion switching to other locations. And for enduring only 5 hours (the time it took us to get out of there, we got a $40 Visa card, a free 4 day cruise that only costs us $300, and a free Hawaiian vacation as long as we buy airfare and pay $200 in taxes. Waht a deal! ;)
     
  16. samiwas Suspended

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    #16
    I've seen quite a few of those timeshare seminars, but have always avoided them. I know what they are up to, and they are definitely a complete ripoff. I would probably just sit there laughing at the guy the whole time until he gave me my prize.

    This sounds like that DirectBuy thing. I had my serious doubts about this as soon as I saw it, knowing there had to be some sort of scam. I had several friends try it. The meeting is an extremely high-pressure sales pitch. And if you even waffle in your decision, security throws you out. One friend said he wanted to think about it for the night, and security came and escorted him out of the building. That's just scary right there.
     
  17. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    St. Louis, MO
    #17

    What the f--?

    I've seen the Direct Buy commercials, figured there was some sort of catch (if it's too good to be true....) but had no idea it was like that.
     
  18. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    Location:
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    #18
    Re: DirectBuy.. you have got to be kidding me. I have also heard that it is a quite a bit of money just to join and you can't bring friends or family members in, they have to be members. What a freaking joke and people still pay to shop there too!
     
  19. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #19
    It is something they can and have sued over. Though, they rarely do it anymore. The worst case scenario is putting some type of lien on your house. But in most cases, it's just a credit ruiner. Most ownership groups won't take the warranty deed back, just as your mortgage company wouldn't take your house back with no questions asked. Most people just pay a flat $500 or $1000 to companies who allow you to sign over the deed. These companies will then turn around and try to sell them for a few bucks profit. It really is pretty easy to get these things for almost nothing.
     
  20. senseless macrumors 68000

    senseless

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    #20
    That was interesting. Resale value closes the timeshare case quickly.
     
  21. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #21
    Posted as FYI- Round Two- a near miss. I'm currently on holiday in Oahu, Hawaii. My wife saw that we could get two tickets for the Hilton's Hawaiian village luau ($100 each) for listening to a presentation. I suggested just paying the money but she saw it as an opportunity to save $200. Next thing I know I'm inundated with "good deals", I argue (not fight) with my wife why I don't want to do this (explanation to follow), the salespeople come in and start throwing points at us, enough points for an additional 3 weeks of stay in the Hilton. They tell my I have 10 days to change my mind, I give in, sign up, then go to my room and dream about time shares all night, get up the next morning, stop by their office and cancel the deal. BTW, Wife not happy. :eek:

    Here are the details. The time share by Hilton is called the Hilton Vacation Club, for $40000, and oh, we have a special discount, knocking the price down to $30000, along with a $1200 annual maintenance fee subject to go up annually. What I get is 5100 points (that equates to about 1 week a year, but can be more if lesser rooms are picked in lesser properties) can be used at any of the Hilton vacation club properties, I can roll them over for one year, plus they are going to give me 15000 points which I can use at any time, but must be used within 2 years. Well that's about 3 weeks of vacation that has to be used in two years besides the 1 week that I would normally be rewarded. They also have an arrangement where RCI rentals can be secured in Europe and they claim it is easy to find available properties. These points expire at the end of the year unless they are rolled over with an actual reservation.

    Based on what I saw, staying at Hilton clubs is a definite step up with suites including kitchens and there are many of them, although probably not every where you want to go. The time share I initially bought into was at the Hawaii Waikiki location, a location which has high demand for most of the year.

    Here is the rub- if you consider a time share as a means to save money forget it. Lets say you have 20 years of travel left in you, you would incur a cost of $30000 + $22000 ($1200 annual) for a total of $52000. If I look at this vacation, it's probably going to cost me $15000, the hotel $2700 for 8 days for rooms in Hilton's Waikiki resort. We plan on one big vacation a year, about a week long. If I had been in this program for this vacation, I would have saved $1500 ($2700-$1200 annual fee) for a very nice place, nicer than where we are staying which equates to a standard Hilton room, which anywhere else can be rented for about $80-120 depending on location and time of year. If this is the big typical annual vacation, to break even on the total cost of investment, it would take 34 years to break even, and with this agreement, I'd end up having to plan on staying at a Hilton property which may or may not be where I want to go. For myself, I won't break even cause I figure I have about 10 years of effective travel time left in me. The other issue is that hotel room costs are only part of the costs of a vacation. At the Hilton Hawaiian village, EVERYTHING costs extra, this is our first big "resort" and neither of us are happy with it. In addition 3 weeks of additional hotel time, equates to 3 weeks of extra overall vacation expenses. If you look at my example above the hotel room rental costs about 18% of the total costs, so while the temptation is to say, here are 3 weeks more of free vacation, that is simply not true, it might also include another $1000-30000 of vacation expenses, depending on how airfare figures in, which is not in the budget.

    Recently I discovered VRBO rentals by owners. To stay on Maui in the Marriott resort the room runs about $450 a night, but in VRBO there are a variety of entire houses that are available for rent in the range of $125-650 a night, or $2000 a week. Now compare this to $2700 for a week in a lousy hotel room. This is obviously the way to go as far as I am concerned...

    Anyway, I'm happy again with the Time Share weight lifted off my shoulders. :p
     
  22. dXTC macrumors 68020

    dXTC

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    #22
    When you went in to cancel the next morning, I'll bet you must have felt like this:
    [​IMG]
     
  23. Apple fanboy macrumors Core

    Apple fanboy

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    #23
    Whenever you are offered a one time sign now type of deal there is always a catch. Usually that they don't want you going away doing a bit of internet research and coming to your senses.
     
  24. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #24
    Exactly, lol! 3 days later, no regrets. :D

    One difference between Hilton and Silverleaf, is that they did not say I could not come back later, where Silverleaf did although I think that all the special incentives were one time only. One other point is that when you decide to bail later, because of the popularity of the Hawaii location, they might actually pay you a little to take it back. Silverleaf charges $1000 to relieve you of your obligation... Final point, if you accept paying $50000 to upgrade your hotel room for 1-2 weeks a year, than it might be worth it. :p
     
  25. sviato macrumors 68020

    sviato

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