There's problems at both ends. I'm eternally shocked to see the amount of young people these days who have no idea what files are. And the same with old people.
There's just a lot of crap people out there slinging mud at each other.
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iPhone SE (2022) I spent the day trying to teach seniors how to use an iPhone and it was a nightmare.
- Thread starter scaramoosh
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There's problems at both ends. I'm eternally shocked to see the amount of young people these days who have no idea what files are. And the same with old people.
There's just a lot of crap people out there slinging mud at each other.
Which shows that accessibility is not one-size-fits-all, it's about options. I have an iPhone Pro Max (the largest iPhone), along with what's about the smallest smartphone, a Unihertz Atom Vanilla. And yes, my Atom does take less dexterity to use, now that you mention it. I prefer the Pro Max overall, for my needs, but my needs are not everyone else's needs.
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You denigrate users with simpler needs:
"...but still have the Pro Max when the regular iPhone would do!"
You apparently fail to grasp that
• Many users need the Pro Max for vision reasons. I am one of those.
• Any user may prefer the superior photo captures that the Pro models facilitate. I am also one of those.
The i7 PM three "fusion" camera system really is a substantially improved camera system for all. The only reasons anyone who does any iPhone photography should not buy the Pro iPhones would be because of cost, or because the thin/light/cutesy of the iPhone Air is more important than image capture to them.
Someone I know went through a month or two with live photos turned on, you know - that thing which captures a bit of usually-useless movement both sides of the photo while potentially degrading the actual photo quality. The thing which activates by pressing the totally-non-intuitive icon.
I had to turn it off, tell them to ensure it's off if they notice photos with movement again, and I set "preserve settings' to ensure if it's off it stays off.
iOS 26 does help somewhat, in that icons can be removed from the display when taking a photo, plus it now only shows Photo and Video along the bottom if you don't start swiping on it.
I had forgotten about the awful Live Photos that Apple liked to push us into. Fine for those seeking cutesy pet and kid pix, but a PITA for the rest of us that we need to be able to block indefinitely.
Agreed that iOS 26 does help somewhat. The problem being the "...if you don't start swiping on it." Just in the activity of the other things going on in the environment (e.g. my captures are in complex often busy environments) an inadvertent touch gets perceived as a swipe - - and all captures thereafter are hosed.
Indeed "iOS 26 now only shows Photo and Video along the bottom," but the tiniest inadvertent touch can switch from one to the other; or an inadvertent swipe may take us to cinematic mode or whatever. Indoors it is a PITA but outdoors it can literally cause multiple failed captures.
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Not just the OS, but if they upgrade their phone and start pressing the camera button, all hell will break loose 😁.
I've just upgraded to a phone which has one. Stubbornness is making me learn to use it instead of doing the rational thing and disabling most of its functionality (I paid for it, I will use it!).
Files are ordered collections of papers. Or did you mean the virtual meaning? The virtual analogy has morphed the meaning into “a single document”. A “folder” is a type of “file”, actually.
A lot of the iconography is lost on young people who’ve never seen a manila folder, file cabinet, a phone handset, etc.
It's not really the iconography by the conceptual model no longer exists either in reality or in the machine.
Conceptually it should be a directory and file and folder should not be mentioned. A file is a serialized chunk of something independent and classifiable and a directory is a container or index of files or other directories. If you look at a smartphone, very few things fit into those abstractions and when that is the principal computing device people use they have no concept of how it works. That breaks other related things in people's minds like URLs and how information can be transferred and shared, which is still mostly by sending copies of it around.
The Camera Control button is a very good thing. Apple's attempt to lead iPhone users to improving their typically awful photo capture technique.
First, I've had an iPhone since they first came out and I'm 70. I also taught technology at the university level. It's not just old folks who cannot manage an iPhone. Most users don't need all the functions. People on this forum are mostly advanced users or users who have a good knowledge of smartphones.
You're probably not a teacher, but I commend you for volunteering your time.
If you or anyone runs into a person, old or not, who needs a simple model, try AARP smart phone. It's easy to use with basic functions (text, talk, photo.). You can also dial for free help and a person answers and knows your name.
I need practice - I've only had the phone a few days and not taken many photos yet. Currently, even attempting to press top and bottom at the same time (landscape photo) results in a slight movement of the phone. Pressing ye-olde white dot doesn't. I'll get used to it.
Thats amazing!
Quick question if I may: which decade in time has been your favorite so far? 70s? 2010s?
I'm a senior and Pro Certified. I suggest you hold off on teaching anyone until you familiarize yourself with some of Apple's Accessibility features for their devices. And I'd avoid an
I'm a senior (75), and an Certified Pro and have worked with countless seniors, technophobes, etc. It's great that you want to be of service, but the notion of teaching more than one person at a time is not realistic. You said, "...I know there are accessibility modes, but you don’t want to have to go through all that and spend hours trying to customize the phone..." The problem isn't Apple's devices being "too fiddly." The problem is your impatience. You would do well to become more familiar with Apple's Accessibility features (https://www.apple.com/accessibility/).
I'm not the guy you were replying to, but my father was using a home computer in the 1980s. And I mean using it as a tool to manage his affairs and all, it was not just for playing a video game or two. So, someone born in 1980 could have grown up in the world of computers, and even (more or less) the Internet. It probably wasn't common, but it happened.
This really needs to be emphasized, although I'd change "files" to "folders". Many teenagers just seem to dump everything into one place and just use search to find something. That's not really wrong, but many of us use folders, too.
And the "old people complain about young people", "young people complain about old people" has been ongoing since cain and abel. It will still be going on long after everyone here is gone, young and old.
I don't have any problems with what the old or young do with their iPhones, just with the way Apple changes the iOS. All of the sudden the iOS updates overcomplicate the iOS functions I had become proficient with. Sometimes the only way to figure some of the new functions is by searching online, including by asking in forums just like this one.
This (above) leads me to ask a question to anybody in this forum who can provide an answer about the following: Lets say that I want to text a friend of mine and by mistake I tap the "A" (for text?) symbol at the right end of the text writing box. In this case a small window pops up showing several moving words (selections, really) for me to choose from. How can I get out of this dumb feature and return to the text window I had been using a moment prior? Why not having a "Cancel" button or box to get out of there...instead of having to tap the left arrow to return to the text window?
This (above) leads me to ask a question to anybody in this forum who can provide an answer about the following: Lets say that I want to text a friend of mine and by mistake I tap the "A" (for text?) symbol at the right end of the text writing box. In this case a small window pops up showing several moving words (selections, really) for me to choose from. How can I get out of this dumb feature and return to the text window I had been using a moment prior? Why not having a "Cancel" button or box to get out of there...instead of having to tap the left arrow to return to the text window?
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This is the fun thing about getting older. I used to complain about old people, now I'm complaining about both old and young people, and in a few years I'll just be complaining about young people.
Like so many Apple "improvements" to make the interface look "cleaner and friendlier", the answer in non-intuitive: tap the text entry box again and wait a moment (not the keyboard where that funky "A" is, but the actual text entry box).
Edit: and Apple's zeal to make the interface look "cleaner" drives me crazy, as they've made some horribly non-intuitive changes over the years, including in iOS 26.
I’m willing to bet that most of the people scaramoosh was trying to teach couldn’t have wrapped their minds around a smart phone even if they were 20, 30 or 40 years younger. I have people in my own extended family like that. I’m 68 and I’m the tech guru in jmy family and in my circle of friends.
Samsung used to having something called "Easy Mode" which had larger icons, a simplified Home Screen, essential apps (phone, camera, messages etc..) and basic navigation.. I'm not sure if they still include something like that but it sounds like that would have been a better option to go with instead of the iPhone. iOS has gotten complicated to where you really dig down deep to fully understand everything about it.
You might look into “Assistive Access”, a simplified iOS mode introduced a few years ago which may help.
I mostly agree with you. For sure the area i agree with the most is the setup process. It doesn’t matter who you are, there’s too much going on.
1) I agree setup should be vastly simplified and/or completely deferred. Skipping steps should be MUCH easier and consistent. Honestly, the phones should turn on to no more than 1-2 screens and then the Home Screen.
2) I’m not sure what the choose your age thing during setup actually does but 100% there should be a “simple” option. It shouldn’t be tied to age necessarily. If you go WAY back, the Performa series Macs used to ask what experience you wanted and offered Finder vs “At Ease”, which was a very simple single click app launcher.
1) I agree setup should be vastly simplified and/or completely deferred. Skipping steps should be MUCH easier and consistent. Honestly, the phones should turn on to no more than 1-2 screens and then the Home Screen.
2) I’m not sure what the choose your age thing during setup actually does but 100% there should be a “simple” option. It shouldn’t be tied to age necessarily. If you go WAY back, the Performa series Macs used to ask what experience you wanted and offered Finder vs “At Ease”, which was a very simple single click app launcher.
These issues attributed to ‘seniors’ are just as prevalent in the younger age groups. There is a sort of ‘techno phobia’ that is endemic in the population. I am in my late 70s and have no issues whatsoever with iPhones or Android based devices. After all I spent 50 + years working in very complex systems engineering. I don’t need extra large text and certainly do not have issues with the concepts used by modern phones. I have been using iPhones since their inception but their ’just works’ philosophy has certainly taken a hit.
Migrating to a new phone is now a pain caused not by new concepts but by bugs and features that have been introduced. I just took delivery of a 17 PM and Air and made the decision to return the Air because of its camera limitations. This was based on a weeks worth of use and testing. Apple did not make the process straightforward.
My biggest issues have always been that new features often break apps I use. This complicates the entire process of acquiring, updating and migration. I spend a lot of time with people in the 40 to 60+ age groups getting their phones correctly configured and making sure they can escape the predatory practices of phone/message/email malcontents. In the end smartphones seem to have got way too complicated mainly because the world of technology has become a very dangerous place and phone manufacturers in their attempt to avoid the worst case issues have made these devices much more complex to set up and manage. This is not an age issue, it is that the technology now demands a much higher level of understanding than was initially promised by companies such as Apple.
Migrating to a new phone is now a pain caused not by new concepts but by bugs and features that have been introduced. I just took delivery of a 17 PM and Air and made the decision to return the Air because of its camera limitations. This was based on a weeks worth of use and testing. Apple did not make the process straightforward.
My biggest issues have always been that new features often break apps I use. This complicates the entire process of acquiring, updating and migration. I spend a lot of time with people in the 40 to 60+ age groups getting their phones correctly configured and making sure they can escape the predatory practices of phone/message/email malcontents. In the end smartphones seem to have got way too complicated mainly because the world of technology has become a very dangerous place and phone manufacturers in their attempt to avoid the worst case issues have made these devices much more complex to set up and manage. This is not an age issue, it is that the technology now demands a much higher level of understanding than was initially promised by companies such as Apple.
