Apple makes ALL their stuff overseas and ships it here. Does anybody else think it would be a great PR move to open a plant in the motherland? I mean, it's all designed by Americans, bought by Americans, and is American, except that it's assembled in another country. It's not like pricing is an issue anyway...
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I think Apple should go All-American.
- Thread starter DevilDog
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
American build quality's not great but labour costs are still high. I don't want to pay more for a machine that most likely won't be any better. 
Yes, it would be nice to have more Apple jobs here at home but I dont want to pay more for already expensive Apple machines/ AppleCare.
WHAT are you talking about?DevilDog said:
You want to see the $1,200 Mini Core Solo, go on ahead.
There's a reason that manufacturing is done offshore, because it is WAY cheaper, even including the cost of freight.
Not only are the labour costs cheaper, but also taxes and environmental requirements. If there isn't a law saying you have to build a treatment plant to filter heavy metals and organic solvents out of the wastewater leaving your factory, then you can save millions and quote a lower price to your customer (Apple) for contract manufacturing. So you poison the river and the people downstream... so what?
iTwitch said:
Yes. Different electronic components are manufactored all over asia and else where for the sheer fact of lax enviromental standards and cheap labor things are cheaper. apple uses contractors and they inturn use sub-contractors etc etc etc. That is basically why things are made in Asia. Another problem about stuff being American made is the fact that is not any facilities to make stuff like that here. even if there was all the parts would still be from Asia.
devildog said:
Apple sells products all over the world. America isn't the only place that buy macs. You can change the language of OS X to about anything you want. Also, Apple is using contractors to build their products. Generally speaking collaboration with Engineers from all over the world that work for contractors work with American Engineers to produce products. Apple is a around a $6 billion dollar company. To believe they could make that much and not be a global entity is rather ignorant. oh yeah, and price is always an issue when you sell things.
mad jew said:American build quality's not great but labour costs are still high. I don't want to pay more for a machine that most likely won't be any better.
Seconded, never been impressed with US build quality anyway - look at the cars we get shipped over from there, not too wonderful. And I'd really rather not have to pay more for my Apple products.
You know the way Porsche makes more profit per vehicle than any other auto maker? That's what I figure Apple does. We are all willing to pay more because it is a Mac.CanadaRAM said:
Yes, I know I'm probably wrong, but I just wanted to throw the idea out there and see what other people thought of it.
Oh, and sorry to all your foreigners. Stupid of me to forget especially when there are tons of yall here on MacRumors. Sorry...
I said this in another thread already, but 2 executives from 2 separate companies had built plants in the US (forget which companies and which 2 US states the factories were located), and they both said that the stuff coming out of those plants were very poorly built, and that workers were getting paid too much and don't work hard at all.
They said this because they both wanted to move their plants to Canada, where they said their experiences with employees, work ethic, build quality, etc, was at another level when compared to what was coming from those 2 US factories.
One company moved their factor to Canada, and the other could not because they had invested too much into the US factory already.
I read this around 2 years ago, I think. Anyway, I don't want my stuff built in the US. If I knew it was built in the US, I may be hesitant to buy it. A more expensive product that isn't built as good? No thanks.
They said this because they both wanted to move their plants to Canada, where they said their experiences with employees, work ethic, build quality, etc, was at another level when compared to what was coming from those 2 US factories.
One company moved their factor to Canada, and the other could not because they had invested too much into the US factory already.
I read this around 2 years ago, I think. Anyway, I don't want my stuff built in the US. If I knew it was built in the US, I may be hesitant to buy it. A more expensive product that isn't built as good? No thanks.
Off the top of my head, the only American made products I'd recommend to people are things made by American Apparel.
Apple is a world wide company.DevilDog said:
So while I understand your idea, I think that producing quality built Macs as cheaply as possible is better for the market.
P.S. For those that don't know, back in the 80's and most of the 90's, Apple Japan had a lock on this country to the point they could charge from 2 to 3 times as much for the same exact computer. Imagine that you are purchasing your favorite new Mac, say a MacBook Pro 15 inch for $2,500. Here in Japan, that same computer with a Japanese keyboard and OS would cost $5,000 to $7,500. It was unbelievable! Thankfully around when the Bondie Blue iMac was introduced this all changed.
Can the Yanks really make a bigger mess of it?
I recall being stumped in conversation with a Russian when he said that one of the reasons why socialism failed was that once you have a system where no matter what you do, you still get paid, lead to ridiculously low production and no pride in peoples work. He finished with a proverb which was "They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work" Only a few days after this conversation their was an item on the news saying that overseas investment in China had increased dramatically and that european companies were sending "psychology teams" to imbue the Chinese with a pride in their work because they could not understand why when something was made it had to work! Their attitude was "We've made 100,000 of these things. What more do you want?" I'm not certain how much propaganda is inherent in these two stories but I thought I'd throw them in. I have never found the asian made machines to be reliable and has caused me many a spat with Apple support staff.
I'm in favour of the proposition. Cultural, economic and social difference should be defended against the homogeneity that globalisation is delivering. Although what benefits other than possibly economic, American protectionism could bring, is unclear. After all, you are the cultural exporters with a mental trade block already in place.
Canadaram, you've got me all in knots. You are in favour of protecting the environment aren't you? Your post is too sly for me to know.
I recall being stumped in conversation with a Russian when he said that one of the reasons why socialism failed was that once you have a system where no matter what you do, you still get paid, lead to ridiculously low production and no pride in peoples work. He finished with a proverb which was "They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work" Only a few days after this conversation their was an item on the news saying that overseas investment in China had increased dramatically and that european companies were sending "psychology teams" to imbue the Chinese with a pride in their work because they could not understand why when something was made it had to work! Their attitude was "We've made 100,000 of these things. What more do you want?" I'm not certain how much propaganda is inherent in these two stories but I thought I'd throw them in. I have never found the asian made machines to be reliable and has caused me many a spat with Apple support staff.
I'm in favour of the proposition. Cultural, economic and social difference should be defended against the homogeneity that globalisation is delivering. Although what benefits other than possibly economic, American protectionism could bring, is unclear. After all, you are the cultural exporters with a mental trade block already in place.
Canadaram, you've got me all in knots. You are in favour of protecting the environment aren't you? Your post is too sly for me to know.
DevilDog said:
I agree with you, it would be a terrific move on Apple's part, but like #2 said, labor costs would be too high. You know, one thing I noticed today while i was looking for a good external DVD/CD burner (not to get off topic) but I noticed that only about 3 of all of the brands in stock were made for MAC OSX, the rest were Win Xp. It is sad because these companies could make alot more money if they catered to the Mac community.
I did find one really good deal at Fry's though, it is dual layer, 16x, DVDrw, CDrw (anything you would possibly need to burn) for $70.00. The unit was refurbished by the manufacturer, but I had no problem with that!
calculus said:
For all those awards he's won in England, you'd think he'd be English. I'm sure they're all quite proud of him.
Apple must have other designers, though, but not everything is done by Americans.
I don't think that Apple should go All-American because we/they simply couldn't afford it. That's why things went to other locations, right?
Laptop machines haven't been built in the U.S.A. for 10 years, maybe? Wasn't there a facility in Colorado that was building the PowerMacs along with another facility in Ireland?
Considering that my minimal PowerBook G3/233 went for $2659 in June 1998, I think there is something to be said for cheap manufacturing. $1099 sounds much better.
Aye if Apple is so American they had better fire off the foreigners - Ives included.
The whole idea of building in America is a very bad idea. If you're patriotic then go bang on about something like everyone should get free guns, or moan about Bush without doing anything about it. That sort of stuff. From a financial standpoint its better to build abroad.
The whole idea of building in America is a very bad idea. If you're patriotic then go bang on about something like everyone should get free guns, or moan about Bush without doing anything about it. That sort of stuff. From a financial standpoint its better to build abroad.
I think the trouble General Motors has been in for the last few years is testament to the fact that All-American is definitely not the way to go
I like Apple the way it is and I don't want some patriot on an ego-trip changing it thank you very much.
I like Apple the way it is and I don't want some patriot on an ego-trip changing it thank you very much.
I'm not being patriotic, but I'm rather disturbed that America is known for producing such shoddy products. Why does Toyota have build plants in several locations in the United States if we're so incapable of producing anything right? I suppose the US factories could be 'loss leaders' and the Asian factories could be producing the real profit, but I somehow think that that isn't the case. Swallowing red ink from 10 or so factories would be rather expensive.
Why does Intel still produce chips here? Why does devilot buy American Apparel shirts if they're so badly put together? An more interesting question: why is it that American Apparel can have the world's highest paid apparel workers and still turn a huge profit? Maybe it's that the company founders have eschewed massive salaries and benefits, and maybe it's the lack of corporate money-grubbing that keeps everything afloat. I don't recall any American Apparel gala luncheons and golf courses, do you?
I'm also kind of upset that people are so thrilled that manufacturing jobs are being shipped overseas. Just a few years ago, when Bethlehem Steel was still churning out the same steel that helped win WWII and build skyscrapers, nearly half of my relatives were making good salaries and working secure jobs. But rat-a-tat-tat, 1991 rolled into 1992 and Bethlehem Steel produced some of its last steel products. The entire Lehigh Valley was racked by unemployment and the city of Bethlehem was hard-hit by job losses. 'The Steel' was not innovative, squandered its money on useless crap, and subsequently went out of business. This pattern is being repeated all over the country, where old businesses roll over and die, their workers destined for low-paying service sector jobs in things like construction and retail. And still, people rejoice because they don't have to pay as much for consumer goods. It's all fine and dandy that we're paying less, but at what greater cost?
I'm sorry. I kind of flipped out there...
/rant
Why does Intel still produce chips here? Why does devilot buy American Apparel shirts if they're so badly put together? An more interesting question: why is it that American Apparel can have the world's highest paid apparel workers and still turn a huge profit? Maybe it's that the company founders have eschewed massive salaries and benefits, and maybe it's the lack of corporate money-grubbing that keeps everything afloat. I don't recall any American Apparel gala luncheons and golf courses, do you?
I'm also kind of upset that people are so thrilled that manufacturing jobs are being shipped overseas. Just a few years ago, when Bethlehem Steel was still churning out the same steel that helped win WWII and build skyscrapers, nearly half of my relatives were making good salaries and working secure jobs. But rat-a-tat-tat, 1991 rolled into 1992 and Bethlehem Steel produced some of its last steel products. The entire Lehigh Valley was racked by unemployment and the city of Bethlehem was hard-hit by job losses. 'The Steel' was not innovative, squandered its money on useless crap, and subsequently went out of business. This pattern is being repeated all over the country, where old businesses roll over and die, their workers destined for low-paying service sector jobs in things like construction and retail. And still, people rejoice because they don't have to pay as much for consumer goods. It's all fine and dandy that we're paying less, but at what greater cost?
I'm sorry. I kind of flipped out there...
/rant
I agree, you want to be the cadillac of computers you aint going to be by having everything made in China! Quicksilver was made in California. I loved seeing that made in California label and that quicksilver was perfect. Lets be honest since Mac went made in China QA has tumbled.DevilDog said:
America is not the motherland. There is no motherland. The Chinese have been around for about 10 times as long as the Americans, but they dont go around saying their the motherland. The people who make the stuff in Asian countries tend to do a good job at it.
As for Apples stuff being brought by Americans, it it, but it is also brought by Australians, French, Japanese, Chinese, German, English... etc
Sorry if anything came across as offensive, but i hate it when people from a country (any country) go on as if they own the world. DevilDog didnt do it as bad as some people. George Bush is a great example (hey, Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, its my duty to destroy them. Lets use our weapons of mass destruction to get rid of their weapons of mass destuction!)
As for Apples stuff being brought by Americans, it it, but it is also brought by Australians, French, Japanese, Chinese, German, English... etc
Sorry if anything came across as offensive, but i hate it when people from a country (any country) go on as if they own the world. DevilDog didnt do it as bad as some people. George Bush is a great example (hey, Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, its my duty to destroy them. Lets use our weapons of mass destruction to get rid of their weapons of mass destuction!)
yeah, go the Alloytech!Chundles said:
C
CompUser
Guest
Chundles said:
Land Rover and Jaguar. Yes those those have nicer interior and exterior build quality, but who has all the electrical problems and oil leaks?
Tough luck. If we produced more and better goods, than perhaps peoples' perceptions of American-made goods would improve.mac_head101 said:
I think you misunderstood me a bit. My point in bringing up that particular company is that it's a bit pathetic that I can only think of one American-made product/brand that seems decent. But you're right, there are pros and cons to everything and perhaps, more companies could do better if willing to swallow larger costs (although, I was told by someone whom I trust, that American Apparel is no longer quite as "good" ethically as they once were).mac_head101 said:
Who's thrilled at "out-sourcing?" That term is negatively charged for a reason. Yes, people are glad that prices can be kept lower, but give some of the populace more credit than to say they're "thrilled" at the outsourcing of labor. It's already been well-documented to have repercussions.mac_head101 said: