I think Apple should go All-American.

[mkrishnan]

Off the top of my head, the only American made products I'd recommend to people are things made by American Apparel.

Hmmm, now I'm thinking... in terms of manufactured durable goods...

Hmmm, well, many of the high-volume cars with better quality reputations that are sold in NA are made here (Camry, Corolla, Accord, Civic, etc.)... but they're made with high quality elsewhere too. In the same vein, American motorcycles have a fairly good reputation within the niche that's played heavily by American companies (the cruiser sort). On the larger end of the transportation industry, American made aircraft are not particularly bad, although most of us aren't in the market!

And then of course all sorts of larger household appliances are made here, if I'm not mistaken, but aren't probably particularly better if made here than elsewhere.

Yeah...hmmm...recommended American-manufactured items....I guess there aren't that many American manufacturing trustmarks that generate global appeal... but on the other hand, there are plenty of things, particularly more expensive, heavier items, that are manufactured in the US with quality that is just fine....

 

[sushi]

Hmmm, well, many of the high-volume cars with better quality reputations that are sold in NA are made here (Camry, Corolla, Accord, Civic, etc.)... but they're made with high quality elsewhere too.

Which brings up a good question.

Are these cars considered American made?

IMHO, if they are manufactured here, then the answer would be yes.

Note, I realize the some economist types might say no because the $, er, ¥ go to Japan. However, the US workers get paid in $ and that helps the economy.

If I purchase a Coors beer in Japan, that is made by Asahi under license, is it US made beer or Japanese made beer. Again, I would say that it is Japanese made.

Anyway, food for thought.

 

[Blue Velvet]

Oh, and sorry to all your foreigners. Stupid of me to forget especially when there are tons of yall here on MacRumors. Sorry...

No. You guys are the foreigners, not us.

 

[mkrishnan]

Are these cars considered American made?

IMHO, if they are manufactured here, then the answer would be yes.

In my experience, yeah, most people in the industry consider them American-made... and legally, most Japanese cars (and German cars for that matter... BMW makes a lot of its stuff for NA in the US as well) that are sold in the US are considered domestically produced. There is a cutoff by % of components of domestic origin, I think, or perhaps by the single largest source of components....

But they also refer to them as Japanese cars. I'm not sure how many consumers are aware of where their Japanese cars were made, or how few of the components were sourced from Japan.

The beer analogy is very good... I went back and edited my post because it really becomes a question of whether you're looking for good American design or good American manufacturing ability.

That is, when you buy Sapporo or Guinness, whether it was bottled domestically or abroad, you want Japanese or Irish beer. If given a choice for authenticity, you probably want Guinness brewed in Ireland. But if it tastes the same and looks the same, most customers the world over won't bat an eyelash, most of the time. That's loosely analogous to the situation now with Apple -- American design, made wherever. It's analogous to the situation with Toyota too -- Japanese design, made wherever.

Just like I don't think most consumers know where there Japanese cars were made, I'm not sure how much of a PR boost Apple manufacturing in the US would really generate.

But then the second question is if you're looking for good American manufacturing, and my separate point was that there is more than adequate evidence that Americans can manufacture things just fine, even if some of the instances involve Americans manufacturing under foreign leadership.

 

[mad jew]

Land Rover and Jaguar. Yes those those have nicer interior and exterior build quality, but who has all the electrical problems and oil leaks?

Oh the irony. You're thinking of the UK. Australia makes Holdens (GM), some Fords, Mitsubishis and Toyotas, among others.

 

[Glen Quagmire]

I'm also kind of upset that people are so thrilled that manufacturing jobs are being shipped overseas. Just a few years ago, when Bethlehem Steel was still churning out the same steel that helped win WWII and build skyscrapers, nearly half of my relatives were making good salaries and working secure jobs. But rat-a-tat-tat, 1991 rolled into 1992 and Bethlehem Steel produced some of its last steel products. The entire Lehigh Valley was racked by unemployment and the city of Bethlehem was hard-hit by job losses. 'The Steel' was not innovative, squandered its money on useless crap, and subsequently went out of business. This pattern is being repeated all over the country, where old businesses roll over and die, their workers destined for low-paying service sector jobs in things like construction and retail. And still, people rejoice because they don't have to pay as much for consumer goods. It's all fine and dandy that we're paying less, but at what greater cost?

I'm sorry. I kind of flipped out there...

/rant

Welcome to the wonderful world of globalisation. Worship at the altars of free trade, NAFTA and dollar-a-day jobs in China. All this in the name of providing cheap goods for the consumers in (predominantly) North America and Western Europe to gorge on, whilst working up huge debts (total UK consumer endebtedness (credit cards, loans, mortgages) is £1 trillion ($1.8 trillion)).

The hidden costs of globalisation are huge. It can't be good for the environment to construct hordes of Macs in China, freight them over the Pacific and transport them by road to places all over the US, for example.

Face it, the manufacturing bases in the US and the UK are in a terminal decline. The service economy is on the rise. If the nineteenth century belonged to Great Britain and the twentieth to the United States, the twenty-first will belong to China. All those people and huge captive markets overseas in the US and in Europe. The only question is how long wil it last? Consumer spending is fuelled by the availability of cheap credit and huge increases in the price of real estate. One day, it'll all come crashing down and it won't be a pretty sight.

 

[DevilDog]

Why is it that America is heading down the tubes so fast? I'm thinking that The first Americans that came built the country into something great. Now, their kids are here. There really isn't anything that 'great' to accomplish so they just get lazy and spend money... people see how we are and to be as 'great' as us is their goal. We Americans however have no goal except to make ourself rich, there's not really a ton of room for social or economic improvement like there was before. How long do you think it's going to take for us to not be the 'richest' country anymore? I know like Switzerland and a few other countries have the highest $ per person, but how long until we're not rich and a world superpower anymore? I hope that's after I'm an old man... But hey, as long as we have Marines, who can touch us???

 

[Sesshi]

I'm not being patriotic, but I'm rather disturbed that America is known for producing such shoddy products. Why does Toyota have build plants in several locations in the United States if we're so incapable of producing anything right?

Cuz they sell a lot of US-specific cars, silly cars which would be laughed off the road elsewhere. Someone's got to make them... Plus they work to a model adapted from the Japanese factories (as do Toyota's European factories which are also the productivity leaders in Europe), a production model that was originally adopted from the Americans of course but they seem to have forgotten how to apply it in a way the Japanese still haven't despite all of their troubles in the last 15 years. Then there are other differences such as Toyota doesn't tolerate unions.

 

[bousozoku]

I think the trouble General Motors has been in for the last few years is testament to the fact that All-American is definitely not the way to go

I like Apple the way it is and I don't want some patriot on an ego-trip changing it thank you very much.

Well, GM and Toyota build the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix side-by-side along with the Toyota Corolla and whatever GM is calling it now and the GM versions couldn't be much worse. I don't understand how they do it.

 

[yg17]

It would be a great PR move in the US, but it would be a horrible PR move in the rest of the world, because the US is sooooo popular among foreign countries right now

 

[sushi]

Well, GM and Toyota build the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix side-by-side along with the Toyota Corolla and whatever GM is calling it now and the GM versions couldn't be much worse. I don't understand how they do it.

Confusing isn't it?

 

[mkrishnan]

Well, GM and Toyota build the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix side-by-side along with the Toyota Corolla and whatever GM is calling it now and the GM versions couldn't be much worse. I don't understand how they do it.

Actually, strange, little known fact is that for some time, the Vibe was the absolute dog in terms of Pontiac product line quality... Odd to think of NUMMI producing the worst quality Pontiac, but AFAIK it was true for some time.

*sigh* I'm a whore riding the great beast of globalization.... I'm sorry, but I think that the rules are changing and that in the long run, it will benefit all of us. I *love* America. And I'm happy to be here. But I want to see it continue to grow and reach new heights, and not retrench.

 

[Chundles]

Confusing isn't it?

Not really, the multi-billion dollar company said to the struggling company "we're going to take all the cars that adhere to out stringent standards for quality and reliability - you guys can have the rest."

 

[CompUser]

Oh the irony. You're thinking of the UK. Australia makes Holdens (GM), some Fords, Mitsubishis and Toyotas, among others.

for some reason I thought he was from the UK. Whoops.

 

[Chundles]

for some reason I thought he was from the UK. Whoops.

It's OK, I'll forgive you....just. If you'd said New Zealand I'd be banging down your door.

I would've thought the "Wollongong, Australia" bit next to location gives it away a bit...

 

[superbovine]

Why is it that America is heading down the tubes so fast? I'm thinking that The first Americans that came built the country into something great. Now, their kids are here. There really isn't anything that 'great' to accomplish so they just get lazy and spend money... people see how we are and to be as 'great' as us is their goal. We Americans however have no goal except to make ourself rich, there's not really a ton of room for social or economic improvement like there was before. How long do you think it's going to take for us to not be the 'richest' country anymore? I know like Switzerland and a few other countries have the highest $ per person, but how long until we're not rich and a world superpower anymore? I hope that's after I'm an old man... But hey, as long as we have Marines, who can touch us???

bahahahahah.... have you ever been Switzerland? The Swiss have a larger GDP than some large Western European countries for the sheer fact of their banking system is secret and anonymous. If you walked down the street in Zurich, you'll notice not everyone is swimming in cash and things cost a whole lot more. Also, their employee advancement is gov regulated for non-management. So it is hard to switch from say, accounting to sales because you'd lose money because pay is based on seniority of the specific job. So, it not how hard or how good you are, but how long you stay in that specific job. The reason why we are a superpower is because of our innovation in technology and our GDP. If things were not profitable like lets say developing the state of the art military technology, we would not be as great as we are now. In sense, the opportunity to enrich ourselves is why America is great. Without incentive to do better no-one would have ambition to do better. So, I wouldn't be knocking the fact that all American want to do is become rich, because that is exactly why we are great, but American economic system enables anyone to become rich usually by hard work and a great idea.

 

[decksnap]

I don't want my stuff built in the US. If I knew it was built in the US, I may be hesitant to buy it.

Your loss. Stereotyping is bad.

The US is a big place. That makes millions of things.

 

[Stella]

Having designers, ( actually all employees ) etc being multi national is the way to go.

You will get more creativity, more influence than just having a one-national staff list ( in this case, americans ).

Apple would suffer by just having american employees.

 

[DevilDog]

One time my dad bought a bike pump at walmart that said "Made in America" on it... It was a P O S and just fell apart. I got REALLY mad because of that.

 

[jimsowden]

Apple makes ALL their stuff overseas and ships it here. Does anybody else think it would be a great PR move to open a plant in the motherland? I mean, it's all designed by Americans, bought by Americans, and is American, except that it's assembled in another country. It's not like pricing is an issue anyway...

I feel apple is one of the few examples of an American company that is better than the competition. If Apple could move their assembly operations to the US, and could do so with the same build quality and cost, then I'm sure they would have. But almost all of the parts are still coming from asian and pacific rim countries. If america was competitive in this category, I'm sure it would be done. But the fact of the matter is we get beat, so let's just take pride in the fact that the ideas for these great products are from the US.

 

[yg17]

That makes millions of things.

.....that all suck in one way or another.

 

[harveypooka]

Well that may be a surprise to Jonathon Ive who, last time I checked, is English as are all the Apple owners I know.

My Aunt taught Ives. Hang on, or did she just meet him. Can't remember. She works at Northumbria University, Newcastle where I *think* he studied.

 

[applemacdude]

.....that all suck in one way or another.

what about craftman tools?

 

[mark!]

American build quality's not great but labour costs are still high. I don't want to pay more for a machine that most likely won't be any better.

true dat.

 

[XNine]

It's okay to be patriotic, it's another thing to be retarded about it.

I have enver owned, and never will own an American made car (unless it was built before 74 or so). God forbid we keep everything cheap. Some people sound more like old school Russians who would eat, sleep, breath, live and die for their country. Yeah, look where that has taken Russia today. Absolutely nowhere.

I'm an all-american guy, but damn, I love my Honda, I love my Playstations, and I love my Japanese Animation (and asian girls too).

Let's not put a higher cost on a high cost machine, eh?