I Want To Know What You Would Think of This Please (contextless post titles)

[Siderz]

This demonstrates that another Rule regarding poor Titles would be unnecessary and ineffective, since there is a Rule against bumping, and that doesn't stop folks from doing it anyway. Just a one can Report a bump, one can report a poor Title, and another Rule would not, IMO, change that.

It doesn't stop people from doing it, it means there's less of it. Pot is illegal, that doesn't stop people from smoking it.

I'm not sure you're thinking this through and are simply objecting it for the sake of objecting it. The real question is why is it so hard to make this a rule? Can you think of a single reason as to why not? All you've said is "the rules there don't work anyway"...that's not a good enough reason at all.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Then how will posters know to consider their titles, and how will other people know to report posts? I shouldn't be the only one to have to know this...

If, I see a thread with an ambiguous or unclear title, and,if, - having actually read the OP's post and contemplated making a contribution to the thread, I then do offer some sort of answer, usually, then, in the course of my post I'll suggest to the OP that he/she consider amending the thread title, and offer suggestions of how it ought to read in order to elicit the desired response.

Sometimes, this works, and then, there is no need to report the poorly conceived thread title.

 

[Siderz]

If, I see a thread with an ambiguous or unclear title, and,if, - having actually read the OP's post and contemplated making a contribution to the thread

You are definitely missing the idea of a title.

I'm not gonna read a post just to find it doesn't interest me. I want to make that decision from reading the title and I'm sure many other people do as well.

Sometimes, this works, and then, there is no need to report the poorly conceived thread title.

You seem to say "report" as if that means I want to post gone. Reporting the post = have a mod adjust the title. I'm not asking for posts to be removed.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

You are definitely missing the idea of a title.

I'm not gonna read a post just to find it doesn't interest me. I want to make that decision from reading the title and I'm sure many other people do as well.



You seem to say "report" as if that means I want to post gone. Reporting the post = have a mod adjust the title. I'm not asking for posts to be removed.

No, I am not missing 'the idea of a title', at all. I know exactly what 'the idea of the title' is in this context. However, it is not an issue I am prepared to pick a fight over, unless the thread and its content is something I find worth contesting.

While I love the English language, and devoutly wish that people would consult their brains and attend to the basic business of thinking before opening their mouths, wielding their pens, or attacking a keyboard, it is not usually something I will choose to wade into combat over.

Nonetheless, in reply to your own thread, which discusses the topic of poorly written thread titles, - and yes, it would be quite nice if individuals thought about how they wish to phrase their question before starting a thread - I am merely explaining how I deal with threads where the title is misleading, non-existent, or downright poorly written, if I wish to engage with them. And, if having read a confusing and confused thread title which deals with a topic which does not interest me, I simply move on. And sigh, a little.

Sometimes, a politely worded post in reply to the OP remedies the issue as well as responding to the OP's query. I only report posts or threads I find egregious, repellant, rude, racist or sexist. And spam. I invariably report spam, if I come across it.

 

[Shrink]

No, I am not missing 'the idea of a title', at all. I know exactly what 'the idea of the title' is in this context. However, it is not an issue I am prepared to pick a fight over, unless the thread and its content is something I find worth contesting.

While I love the English language, and devoutly wish that people would consult their brains and attend to the basic business of thinking before opening their mouths, wielding their pens, or attacking a keyboard, it is not usually something I will choose to wade into combat over.

Nonetheless, in reply to your own thread, which discusses the topic of poorly written thread titles, - and yes, it would be quite nice if individuals thought about how they wish to phrase their question before starting a thread - I am merely explaining how I deal with threads where the title is misleading, non-existent, or downright poorly written, if I wish to engage with them. And, if having read a confusing and confused thread title which deals with a topic which does not interest me, I simply move on. And sigh, a little.

Sometimes, a politely worded post in reply to the OP remedies the issue as well as responding to the OP's query. I only report posts or threads I find egregious, repellant, rude, racist or sexist. And spam. I invariably report spam, if I come across it.

Your well reasoned and well written responses to OP's posts are futile. It appears that any response not in complete agreement with the OP, or questioning what is apparently iron clad and unquestionable logic just doesn't understand OP's position.

Argument seem pointless as the OP position is RIGHT, and not subject to questioning or disagreement.

 

[Siderz]

Your well reasoned and well written responses to OP's posts are futile. It appears that any response not in complete agreement with the OP, or questioning what is apparently iron clad and unquestionable logic just doesn't understand OP's position.

Argument seem pointless as the OP position is RIGHT, and not subject to questioning or disagreement.

I don't think good enough reasons are being made as to why not...all I've read is "report the posts" and "the rules (eg bumping) aren't effective in the first place".

If the plan is to report the posts...then that's good enough to make it a "minor problem" rule.

If the rules already in place aren't effective enough as it is, then what's the harm in making a new rule? Nobody has yet answered what the actual problem is in making a new rule...all I've got so far is a bunch of people who know they will report the post because they've read this post, which is a point I've been making; only people reading this post know that because they've read this post, how else will we spread the word other than making it a rule?

You're acting like I'm asking for an IP ban on anyone who makes an ambiguous title...

 

[Shrink]

I rest my case....

 

[Siderz]

You're not even answering my question. Let's go back to what you originally said.

It seems to me this action precludes the need for a Rule change, since even with a Rule change a Post Report would be sent, making the Rule change superfluous.

That wouldn't make a rule change superfluous...because as I've been saying, only we, in this post, know that we should report a post, because only the people of this post have been told. If it's in the rules, like with the bump rule, then more people will understand it. How does that not make sense? I feel like you're just following the crowd and condoning crappy titles, because otherwise you'd want to see something change here on a wider scale and not just limited to this post.

 

[Siderz]

Here are some quesions which nobody is going to answer:

1. How much money does it cost to make a new rule?
2. How much effort does it take to make a new rule?
3. What is the harm in making a new rule?
4. Do the mods just not want to put up with the extra reports?
5. Have you given a minute to think about the benefits of having meaningful titles? Can you counter any of these benefits?
6. Do you understand that putting no context into a title practically makes the title useless?

Again, it's not like I'm asking for an IP ban! I just want people to:

• As an OP, be more thoughtful when it comes to making titles
• Suggest a better title upon seeing a bad one
• Report the post to a mod to make a better title themselves

Do you have a better way of getting this known other than to simply add it as a rule?

 

[DeltaMac]

Your idea is all good, but still not worth a rule (the "cost" is irrelevant), even though I like a nice catchy title, too.

(Why?) because, those who don't care about the title to their own post may still choose not to consider the value of the title. I don't choose to grade the post on just the title - and I'm not going to make a thread title just to satisfy an arbitrary rule.
If you want to use some goofy, no context title, then that's your choice. If you don't care if anybody reads your thread, that's also your choice.
Finally, if you choose to ignore a thread because the title is not catchy enough, that's, again, your choice.

Not worth a rule. 'tis not about money, effort/time, or 'harm'
I seldom start threads, but try to make a title that I hope will draw readers.
I also recognize that not everyone has the same amazing grasp of drama that I have.
And - sometimes the non-meaningful titles get my attention first (this thread, for example), so one can't always predict about the response to a particular title - you just don't know who else reads these amazing forums. Someone else may like your deficient title, despite what you may believe. Please don't try to speak for everyone... you don't know where they live (and how they think) and that's a Good Thing™

 

[Sydde]

ISTR being on some forum where the title link also generated a tooltip-like pop-up that contained some of the first part of the OP. Even some apparently unambiguous titles are deceptive, so having a feature like that would be quite helpful (especially if there was a convenient way to make it work on a tablet).

 

[Siderz]

(Why?) because, those who don't care about the title to their own post may still choose not to consider the value of the title.

I get that, and so it's been suggested that if I feel a title is ambiguous then I can report it to a mod with a suggested title. Is the plan to just limit this to me, the people reading post, or can everyone report posts for this? Nobody is answering this question.

 

[DeltaMac]

?
Anyone can report a post

You've been asking (and I paraphrase) about fixing titles because you think they might be too vague, etc. You can report that thread to mods with your suggestions.
You seem to take this all wrong. It's not about you, but about your own opinions. Someone else (a moderator) may not necessarily agree with your impression that a thread title is ambiguous, or, even worse, non-contextual. Same with a post that offends you, but perhaps does not offend others in any way. That doesn't mean that you are right, or wrong (or even that anyone else thinks you are wrong). It DOES mean that you have your own point of view, to which you are entitled. You do get to step back and look at this subject from a more general perspective. Any member of this forum can report threads or individual posts. Offering suggestions for editing posts, or changing the thread to a different forum, or changing a vague thread title - any can be reported by any member. You are no different from anyone else (well, other than a sensitivity to this issue )
Nothing prevents you from reporting the occasional thread title, if you feel that need. You are NOT the only member who reports posts or threads. If you feel that way, then you are mistaken.

 

[Siderz]

?
Anyone can report a post

Yes!!! I know that!!! But how are people going to know that they're supposed to report posts with ambiguous titles???? Because so far only this thread has been told.

You are NOT the only member who reports posts or threads. If you feel that way, then you are mistaken.

But only I, and a few people reading this post, understand that they've been given the all clear to report ambiguous titles. This isn't about reporting in general, this is about reporting a specific issue.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

?
Anyone can report a post

You've been asking (and I paraphrase) about fixing titles because you think they might be too vague, etc. You can report that thread to mods with your suggestions.
You seem to take this all wrong. It's not about you, but about your own opinions. Someone else (a moderator) may not necessarily agree with your impression that a thread title is ambiguous, or, even worse, non-contextual. Same with a post that offends you, but perhaps does not offend others in any way. That doesn't mean that you are right, or wrong (or even that anyone else thinks you are wrong). It DOES mean that you have your own point of view, to which you are entitled. You do get to step back and look at this subject from a more general perspective. Any member of this forum can report threads or individual posts. Offering suggestions for editing posts, or changing the thread to a different forum, or changing a vague thread title - any can be reported by any member. You are no different from anyone else (well, other than a sensitivity to this issue )
Nothing prevents you from reporting the occasional thread title, if you feel that need. You are NOT the only member who reports posts or threads. If you feel that way, then you are mistaken.

Very good post.

To the OP, to be honest, I think there are two further issues here, neither of which has been mentioned so far, and neither of which can be solved by you.

The first is the problem of basic literacy, and some sort of basic competence and confidence in being able to express yourself in clearly written, plain English.

Actually, I am willing to wager that 100 years ago, (a nice date, as much is being written about 1914 just now for obvious reasons) in a world of steel-nibbed fountain pens, robust desks and those rugged two-roomed schools which used to dot rural - and urban - parts of the US, most kids, irrespective of when they left school, would have been perfectly capable of expressing themselves in a clear, easy comprehensible prose. In other words, they knew what they needed to be able to say, and how to say it, when writing something.

This was because the US of 1914 was an extraordinarily literate society, with a thriving print media (which was widely disseminated and read - each city had several local papers, for example), some excellent writers, and a public who desired to obtain much of their information from books, libraries, newspapers, periodicals and so on and who readily wrote letters, which were delivered by a postal system with a number of daily delivery rounds. This situation was replicated across Europe, the UK, France, Germany, the Habsburg lands - all were extremely literate societies, where books and newspapers were devoured.

In our world, complete with threads, texts and twitter, we have a situation where youngsters don't read books or papers - at all. Regular reading is what gives you mastery of, and facility with, language, and many of the individuals who frequent these threads lack the facility with language to be able to use it to make a case or articulate what it is they wish to say.

As a former academic and indeed, a former editor, of course I deplore this. I love a well turned phrase and an elegantly written piece.

However, and this is your second problem, there is an actual rule on this forum which explicitly prohibits members on MR from correcting the poor, or limited, language skills, or grammatical errors, or other lapses or offences against thought and language of other members. Some don't have English as a first, or second language. Others have never read a book. A great many are teenagers with the legendary communication skills of youngsters (which means that I, for one, usually don't get it; they see and use language differently, and very often, in an evolving and developing manner).

So, creating a rule which reports - what? sloppy construction? Poorly thought out phrases? Ghastly grammar? - may clash with the rule which instructs us not to find fault with how others write if what they write is merely mistaken and poorly constructed or conceived, rather than deliberately ill-mannered and gratuitously offensive.

 

[Siderz]

To the OP, to be honest, I think there are two further issues here, neither of which has been mentioned so far, and neither of which can be solved by you.

The first is the problem of basic literacy, and some sort of basic competence and confidence in being able to express yourself in clearly written, plain English.

This has already been pointed out:

Tough enough for some with a language barrier to post in the first place, without also struggling with the potential "thread-title rule"

So, creating a rule which reports - what? sloppy construction? Poorly thought out phrases? Ghastly grammar? - may clash with the rule which instructs us not to find fault with how others write if what they write is merely mistaken and poorly constructed or conceived, rather than deliberately ill-mannered and gratuitously offensive.

I've already given some examples and so have other people. It's not about poor grammar or poor spelling, it's about not even trying:

• "Can I get your opinion"
• "Is this possible"
• "Can iMovie Do This"
• "Help please"
• "I need help"
• "Pinnacle Dazzle"
• "I have a problem"
• "Blu-ray Help"
• "Help! How do I do this?"
• "I Want To Know What You Would Think of This Please"

These are all lacking context.

Look at the Mac Pro guidelines - https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/55806/ - that is all I'm asking for. This was originally just a thread in the Digital Video section, I'm more interested in having this applied to the Digital Video section.

 

[S.B.G]

Scepticalscribe wrote a few posts up what the fundamental problem with the titles to threads and the content within them. The use of language in this post-modern world is devolving with the advent of text messaging, Twitter and the lack of actual reading and writing in a meaningful way. Without a proper education, or worse, caring and practical application of said education will not garner a meaningful thread title, and context of the content within the title.

We have rules against bumping and trolling among other things. Yet, daily, folks still violate them and bump and troll. The reasons for it vary widely. Either they don't know about the rule because they haven't read them or they do know about the rule and don't care about it.

Adding a rule for ambiguous thread titles isn't going to change things and make, rather, force, folks to create properly written thread titles. The only thing I foresee happening is that the moderator team will have to start issuing reminders and punitive actions to members for what is arguably a very trivial thing.

 

[Siderz]

The only thing I foresee happening is that the moderator team will have to start issuing reminders and punitive actions to members for what is arguably a very trivial thing.

So it is just about not wanting to have to put up with an increase in reports...at least make a sticky on the Digital Video section like the Mac Pro section.

 

[maflynn]

So it is just about not wanting to have to put up with an increase in reports...at least make a sticky on the Digital Video section like the Mac Pro section.

No, its not about report volume. Earlier in the thread it was stated if you see a thread with an ambiguous thread, report it and the moderation team will update the title if it requires it.

I think sending reminders for thread titles will be viewed negatively by those that receive it. New members will feel very unwelcome because they feel they're being disciplined for a poorly worded title. Seasoned members will be upset at the moderators being so nit picky because of a thread title.

 

[rdowns]

After you tackle thread titles, will you be going after useless posts too?

How about you deal with the bad titles yourself? We don't need any more rules here. Post in that thread and suggest a title. Send the thread starter a PM telling them what an idiot they are for posting such a bad title or maybe a little softer than that.

 

[Sydde]

I notice that at least two of the forums I frequent produce a mouse-over on every thread title that shows as much as 10 lines of the OP – that would at least partly address the issue by giving the viewer a chance to bypass a thread that has a vague or misleading title, by being able to peek at its content without having to open it.

Of course, the iPad offers no mouse-over - but there is an icon over on the right (the folder-looking thing) that does nothing else, it would be a convenient place to offer a preview-tap for tablet users.

 

[Siderz]

How about you deal with the bad titles yourself? We don't need any more rules here. Post in that thread and suggest a title. Send the thread starter a PM telling them what an idiot they are for posting such a bad title or maybe a little softer than that.

I don't think you've even read this post because that's exactly what we've been talking about this whole time. I don't want to be the only one reporting bad titles.

Now read the rest of the posts

----------

No, its not about report volume. Earlier in the thread it was stated if you see a thread with an ambiguous thread, report it and the moderation team will update the title if it requires it.

I get that. We've been through this a million times. I'm saying I don't want to be the only one to be reporting posts.

Can there at least be a sticky on the Digital Video section? Because that's where I go the most and where I see it happening the most.

 

[Kissaragi]

I get that. We've been through this a million times. I'm saying I don't want to be the only one to be reporting posts.

Can there at least be a sticky on the Digital Video section? Because that's where I go the most and where I see it happening the most.

Your not the only one reporting these things!

Do you really think that someone who cant be bothered to write a proper thread title will read a sticky or the rules? I admire your optimism if you do.

I agree with the vast majority here, its a minor problem that wouldn't be improved with any rule changes or stickies.

 

[Siderz]

Do you really think that someone who cant be bothered to write a proper thread title will read a sticky or the rules? I admire your optimism if you do.

It's not just about people reading a sticky but having something to refer to if they say "Well there isn't a rule against it".

I feel like your response is entirely based around following the mob mentality, I doubt you or many other people here check the Digital Video section so of course it doesn't affect you. This should be up to the people in the Digital Video section and I'm waiting for an actual mod to tell me how I can set up a sticky.

 

[S.B.G]

I'm waiting for an actual mod to tell me how I can set up a sticky.

We decide and set up stickies; members can suggest them. We take a conservative view on creating stickies and rarely do we make them. That's because they don't get read as often as one might think and we try not to clutter up the forums with them.

Making a sticky for thread titles isn't likely to happen.