All iPads I was wrong about the mouse on iPads

[deuxani]

I really hope they will add an option to make the mouse cursor the size you want. Now it’s just default and big, which are both too big. It would be great if there was a slider to change the size like with text size so you can go as small and big as you want.

 

[Smici]

Three things would be great, smaller arrow like pointer, reverseable scrooling wheel, and a longpress touch option to chose for the right click.

 

[fitshaced]

What I don’t understand is why Apple are taking baby steps with this. It would make sense to properly include mouse support with left/right clicking and a less intrusive mouse cursor. If it worked plug and play with RDP apps, it would be a huge step forward instead of a tease, which I think it is right now (apologies if that’s offensive to those who need it as an accessibility feature).

 

[bensisko]

What I don’t understand is why Apple are taking baby steps with this. It would make sense to properly include mouse support with left/right clicking and a less intrusive mouse cursor. If it worked plug and play with RDP apps, it would be a huge step forward instead of a tease, which I think it is right now (apologies if that’s offensive to those who need it as an accessibility feature).

You’re assuming Apple is going to make this a normal feature. Having tried it, it’s pretty clear this is truly an accessibility feature designed to replicate a touch experience and not a lead in to making mouse input.

 

[fitshaced]

You’re assuming Apple is going to make this a normal feature. Having tried it, it’s pretty clear this is truly an accessibility feature designed to replicate a touch experience and not a lead in to making mouse input.

Sure, but I would say a fair assumption if you consider the evolution of the iPad. It’s as if Apple needs to be dragged to the finish line for certain features, but they generally (maybe reluctantly) get there over a long period of time.

 

[Precursor]

Sure, but I would say a fair assumption if you consider the evolution of the iPad. It’s as if Apple needs to be dragged to the finish line for certain features, but they generally (maybe reluctantly) get there over a long period of time.

Couldn't have said it better! Apple HAD TO add mouse support after overwhelming demand (and obviously the rise of MS Surface Pro) but they're like "see how ugly and jittery it is?" to prove their point.

 

[canesalato]

So, I still understand why Apple is reluctant to add the mouse support on an iPad - and limiting it to a deep Accessibility option hidden in settings of iPadOS. There are a few confusing elements when using it which are somewhat “un-Apple”, so I get it. They also don’t want developers to start relying on it too much, I guess.

But with that said - after running the developer beta of iPadOS for a few days with Mouse support, I can say that I’m enjoying it a lot. I was against mouse support in several threads here, but now I see how great it can be to just use it alongside the keyboard. It is also great in certain apps.

So, I was wrong. Apple, please add proper mouse support in iPadOS 14. Heck, at least just change the cursor. I understand this one was meant to be noticeable, for people that need that accessibility feature, but an option to turn it into something smaller (and into a more conventional arrow) would be great for some.

BTW, I’m using the Logitech MX Master and other than the thumb button and the side scroll wheel, all of the mouse buttons work great and can be customized.

Yes, I remember many discussions where you were quite against. But admitting to be wrong is a sign of great maturity. Glad you are enjoying mouse support. I am enjoying it too. =)
Fingers crossed for a real cursor and better support for magic trackpad/mouse gestures.
One feature I would love, is being able to set mouse buttons as long presses, which under iOS/iPad OS 13 are basically used as contextual bottons. That would basically add right click to iPad OS, which is so cool! It also seems very easy to implement, as mouse buttons can be easily customized (we just miss what is probably the most useful option!)

 

[bensisko]

Sure, but I would say a fair assumption if you consider the evolution of the iPad. It’s as if Apple needs to be dragged to the finish line for certain features, but they generally (maybe reluctantly) get there over a long period of time.

Ehhhh... I say it could go either way at this point. It depends entirely on WHY they added it.
If it’s a back door to add true mouse support for future desktop applications (I.e. add it now to see what developers bite), then okay I’ll buy your assumption. It was also be a departure (or change) for Apple and their vision for the iPad.

However, if it is truly an accessibility feature that was designed to replicate touch via an alternate input, then it’s not a forgone conclusion that Apple is going to make the mouse a normal part of the experience. To me, this is exactly what it feels like - they’re not trying to add mouse support for regular use, but trying to replicate touch events.

If the second is true, then Apple’s message to developers is “touch is primary and all applications NEED to be touch-friendly and NOT rely on having a mouse”. If the former is true, then Apple’s message is “we’re putting this in to test the waters and see what people develop - while touch is primary, we’re open to the idea you will NEED a mouse for certain applications”.

Couldn't have said it better! Apple HAD TO add mouse support after overwhelming demand (and obviously the rise of MS Surface Pro) but they're like "see how ugly and jittery it is?" to prove their point.

First off, no, Apple didn’t “have to” add mouse support. Apple is quite well known for building their own products by their own rules and NOT caving into demands.

Second, the Surface is no threat to Apple and the iPad. While there is some audience overlap, they’re largely very different target audiences. Microsoft discovered this after trying to compete with Apple - the Surface competition is more the MacBook Pro on the Apple side, Chromebooks from Google, and other laptops/convertibles from the Microsoft side.

Third, it will be curious to see what this is all about. If this (specifically the mouse, but also other elements of iPadOS) is Apple giving in to “overwhelming demand”, I would be worried. If Apple is indeed “giving in”, this marks a big departure from traditional Apple and could mean that they have lost commitment to their own vision by letting the user base design their product for them. Very un-Apple-like - and troubling.

So, what does this mean?
Three possibilities:

1. Nothing - All of this could mean nothing and this is a focus on the iPad. Apple remains committed to their vision of the iPad being the future of computing and a very different experience than a traditional desktop computer. Going forward they’re going to focus on the core vision of the iPad and iOS mixing in requested features where they make sense for the platform.
2. Pivot - Apple has lost faith in their vision for the iPad and iOS and now they’re not sure what they want to do with the iPad so they’re just grabbing feature requests while they decide what to do with the iPad. Leaning on community demand for features and focusing on competition puts Apple in the reaction seat instead of the visionary seat.
3. Focus Pivot - iPad / iOS is being put into maintenance mode while a new platform is developed, specifically around Augmented Reality and AI. If Apple now sees AR and wearables as the future of the business, they would have their top minds working on that and iPad and iOS becomes a maintenance product similar to the way the Mac was when the focus switched to mobile.

Of course iOS 14 and WWDC 2020 will be the true test. For now, it’s all just speculation. The next iteration will tell us if Apple has indeed relegated the future of the platform to reactionary, or if it’s really part of a larger vision for the platform.

 

[Smici]

Yes, I remember many discussions where you were quite against. But admitting to be wrong is a sign of great maturity. Glad you are enjoying mouse support. I am enjoying it too. =)
Fingers crossed for a real cursor and better support for magic trackpad/mouse gestures.
One feature I would love, is being able to set mouse buttons as long presses, which under iOS/iPad OS 13 are basically used as contextual bottons. That would basically add right click to iPad OS, which is so cool! It also seems very easy to implement, as mouse buttons can be easily customized (we just miss what is probably the most useful option!)

I just don’t get it. Why should be so angry about a feature you never tried and said to how wants it you should buy a macbook.. And now, they use it.. Meh.. Don’t use it, leave it to us, how always believed in the idea.
No offense, but I got it for a month or so that I should buy a macbook instead of my superior IPad Pro. Shame on those people

 

[canesalato]

I just don’t get it. Why should be so angry about a feature you never tried and said to how wants it you should buy a macbook.. And now, they use it.. Meh.. Don’t use it, leave it to us, how always believed in the idea.
No offense, but I got it for a month or so that I should buy a macbook instead of my superior IPad Pro. Shame on those people

I got these comments for years!
For mouse support (the world would collapse, basically. The OS is optimized for fingers, a mouse would never work! Apps would not be touch-first anymore! Just buy a Mac! etc.),

keyboard cases (the future is touch based, even Mac laptops will have touch keyboards, the new generations are faster when touch typing than with physical keyboards. etc.),

styluses (who needs a stylus?? Steve Jobs said blablabla. Apps would be optimized only for the stylus. You have 10 of them attached to your hands! Just use you "meat" ones! Just buy android if you want to use one! etc.),

more RAM memory (nobody should need more than 1Gb, iOS is so efficient! Android is bloated. The AX processor is so powerful anyway, etc.),

file systems and file managers (your files will just live inside your apps, Files and folders are hard to learn. You live in the 19th century, we don't need a file system, we don't need a file manager. iCloud Drive is good enough as a file system. Files is good enough as a file manager. Cloud file systems are good enough, you don't need to be able to write in your "On my iPad" folder. That's obviously for apps only, or the whole iOS security model would collapse. But you can already write there if you download this app (from unknown devs based in China) that creates a subfolder with writing access. So why we would need that feature? Etc.),

USB devices (hard drives, pendrives etc are not needed, just use iCloud! Big security issue! Just use AirDrop, just use this NAS, just use this questionable App to connect to the NAS. Just use this 180$ 8GB lightning (USB2) memory. etc.),

and split-screen multitasking (it would ruin the iPad experience, iPads are devices focused on one task per time. They disappear to make you focus on what matters. etc.)!

 

[Smici]

I got these comments for years!
For mouse support (the world would collapse, basically. The OS is optimized for fingers, a mouse would never work! Apps would not be touch-first anymore! Just buy a Mac! etc.),

keyboard cases (the future is touch based, even Mac laptops will have touch keyboards, the new generations are faster when touch typing than with physical keyboards. etc.),

styluses (who needs a stylus?? Steve Jobs said blablabla. Apps would be optimized only for the stylus. You have 10 of them attached to your hands! Just use you "meat" ones! Just buy android if you want to use one! etc.),

more RAM memory (nobody should need more than 1Gb, iOS is so efficient! Android is bloated. The AX processor is so powerful anyway, etc.),

file systems and file managers (your files will just live inside your apps, Files and folders are hard to learn. You live in the 19th century, we don't need a file system, we don't need a file manager. iCloud Drive is good enough as a file system. Files is good enough as a file manager. Cloud file systems are good enough, you don't need to be able to write in your "On my iPad" folder. That's obviously for apps only, or the whole iOS security model would collapse. But you can already write there if you download this app (from unknown devs based in China) that creates a subfolder with writing access. So why we would need that feature? Etc.),

USB devices (hard drives, pendrives etc are not needed, just use iCloud! Big security issue! Just use AirDrop, just use this NAS, just use this questionable App to connect to the NAS. Just use this 180$ 8GB lightning (USB2) memory. etc.),

and split-screen multitasking (it would ruin the iPad experience, iPads are devices focused on one task per time. They disappear to make you focus on what matters. etc.)!

You won.
I’m new in the ios world, I just switched from a surface book to the newest pro, and I love it even if there are limitation. The most needed feature was for me the mouse, because I use the ipad on my desk every day, and my shoulder got so much pain, I needed to limit using the ipad. Now I’m perfectly fine. I have some bugs with my bt keyboard in the beta, so I don’t use it yet, but I don’t write too much, so I can wait.

Split screen for me was always there, because of ios 12. It would be great if we can resize the floating panels vertically, but that would be just an extra. I miss only one thing there, a floating panel, like the pip video, but just for images, that would be great for references. Now I’m watching Netflix in pip most of the time when i’m surfing the web, or painting, and use the float thing to chat with my friends. That is 3 app almost always in use in the same time.

Filesystem is great, but I don’t use it too much yet, but i don’t complain about them. It’s nice to have.

Without a stylus I would never-ever have bought it.

Ram? Never enough, procreate could be use more everytime.


And about the topic: I would never complain about any feature that might be good for otherd, but I wouldn’t use it.

 

[canesalato]

You won.
I’m new in the ios world, I just switched from a surface book to the newest pro, and I love it even if there are limitation. The most needed feature was for me the mouse, because I use the ipad on my desk every day, and my shoulder got so much pain, I needed to limit using the ipad. Now I’m perfectly fine. I have some bugs with my bt keyboard in the beta, so I don’t use it yet, but I don’t write too much, so I can wait.

Split screen for me was always there, because of ios 12. It would be great if we can resize the floating panels vertically, but that would be just an extra. I miss only one thing there, a floating panel, like the pip video, but just for images, that would be great for references. Now I’m watching Netflix in pip most of the time when i’m surfing the web, or painting, and use the float thing to chat with my friends. That is 3 app almost always in use in the same time.

Filesystem is great, but I don’t use it too much yet, but i don’t complain about them. It’s nice to have.

Without a stylus I would never-ever have bought it.

Ram? Never enough, procreate could be use more everytime.


And about the topic: I would never complain about any feature that might be good for otherd, but I wouldn’t use it.

I actually forgot USB-C. Useless port, lightning is much better (and 0.1 mm thinner!) and “more secure”. And with USB-C we would lose the MFI program. How would we know if a cable is safe to use? Third party USB-C cable will make iPads go on fire! Joking aside, i agree with everything you wrote

 

[aevan]

Yes, I remember many discussions where you were quite against. But admitting to be wrong is a sign of great maturity. Glad you are enjoying mouse support. I am enjoying it too. =)
Fingers crossed for a real cursor and better support for magic trackpad/mouse gestures.
One feature I would love, is being able to set mouse buttons as long presses, which under iOS/iPad OS 13 are basically used as contextual bottons. That would basically add right click to iPad OS, which is so cool! It also seems very easy to implement, as mouse buttons can be easily customized (we just miss what is probably the most useful option!)

Yes, I was wrong and it probably won’t be the last time I wonder if I should revisit my stance against touchscreen Macs too

As for the long press - I agree. I think that would also be good as an accessibility feature, I’m a bit surprised they didn’t add it already.

 

[rowspaxe]

I call 2019 ios mouse support a half step--and full support will likely come next year.
[doublepost=1561761899][/doublepost]

For my Wife, an Architect, there is no way she would ever think about using the IPP as a true pro creation tool without a mouse. Apple pencil is nice for drawing or sketching, but when u want to use a proper CAD software with it’s advanced tools and precision, an Apple pencil is no way near a mouse.

There's no reason to believe ipad is the proper place for cad work--get over it

 

[Precursor]

First off, no, Apple didn’t “have to” add mouse support. Apple is quite well known for building their own products by their own rules and NOT caving into demands.

Yah keep saying that to yourself

Apple doesn't cave in to demands? And why they introduced first Apple Pencil then Mouse Support to their tablet after announcing several times that they'd never do it? Get on with times, Apple is not the leading company in innovation anymore.

 

[Macalway]

You’re assuming Apple is going to make this a normal feature. Having tried it, it’s pretty clear this is truly an accessibility feature designed to replicate a touch experience and not a lead in to making mouse input.

It depends on how many people want it as a standard. Apple's success is built on giving people what they want, while exceeding their expectations.

So if enough people want it, it's as good as done.

 

[bensisko]

Yah keep saying that to yourself

Apple doesn't cave in to demands? And why they introduced first Apple Pencil then Mouse Support to their tablet after announcing several times that they'd never do it? Get on with times, Apple is not the leading company in innovation anymore.

It depends on how many people want it as a standard. Apple's success is built on giving people what they want, while exceeding their expectations.

So if enough people want it, it's as good as done.

Yes, I see your point.

I assume you're enjoying that headphone jack on your new iPhone?

 

[Macalway]

Yes, I see your point.

I assume you're enjoying that headphone jack on your new iPhone?

Ok, so they do weird design stuff (at least they have been ).
What I said is still true though.

 

[bensisko]

Ok, so they do weird design stuff (at least they have been ).
What I said is still true though.

Obviously typed on your new MacBook Pro with USB-A Ports, an SD Card reader, and a touchscreen. Or possibly that Mac mini with Swappable internal components, or an iPad that runs full Mac OS X applications.

See a pattern here? These are all things lots of people have "demanded" and yet have not come to fruition.

Apple's success is NOT built on giving people what they demand, but what they want before they want it. In general, Apple is not reactive in their designs - they have a vision of what their products are and how consumers will use them.

I would argue that the full implementation of the feature is NOT dependent on demand, but rather Apple's vision for the iPad. Is mouse support part of their vision? Or is it just a way to promote touch for people that have difficulty with touch. I know people WANT to believe the former, but if Apple isn't bought in I can't see them doing it no matter how many people scream for it - except in the case where Apple wants to support people with a disability.

Remember when Apple introduced Inkwell in Jaguar? Everybody assumed a tablet Mac or PDA was on the way - never appeared. It was really created to support people with RSI.

I think if it was REALLY meant to be actual mouse support, it would have been talked about A LOT more at WWDC and mentioned in the keynote as an alternate pointer for developers to take advantage of.

 

[Macalway]

Apple's success is NOT built on giving people what they demand, but what they want before they want it. In general, Apple is not reactive in their designs - they have a vision of what their products are and how consumers will use them.

It's just wishful thinking on my part. I visualize something and concentrate real hard, and wish, and
it always comes true. Always, every time.

 

[deuxani]

I really hope they will add an option to make the mouse cursor the size you want. Now it’s just default and big, which are both too big. It would be great if there was a slider to change the size like with text size so you can go as small and big as you want.

It seems they did exactly that

 

[canesalato]

It seems they did exactly that

View attachment 846184

This is much better! Now, if they added a different shape (like an arrow ) and the option to assign a button to a long press, it would really be perfect!

 

[seadragon]

I must commend Apple for listening and now offering adjustable cursor size. There is clearly a demand for mouse support and the iPad just became even more flexible. Never understood the arguments in other threads (some quite belligerent) against this feature.

 

[EugW]

It seems they did exactly that

View attachment 846184

I must commend Apple for listening and now offering adjustable cursor size. There is clearly a demand for mouse support and the iPad just became even more flexible. Never understood the arguments in other threads (some quite belligerent) against this feature.

Yes, nice. I was thinking they might not do this until iPadOS 13.2 or even iOS 14 or something, but it's good to see it's already here.

Now I just need my remote desktop VPN software providers to update their software to work with iPadOS 13, since that's what I actually need mouse support for. Neither software applications for my two workplaces currently work with iPadOS 13. Mind you, I can live with that since I'll just use my MacBook instead. Unfortunately, they don't work with macOS 10.15 Catalina either, so I guess I'll have to stick with 10.14 Mojave for the next while.

Actually what would also be nice is to get scroll support in Safari, and the option for scrolling in the opposite direction, ie. non-"natural" scroll direction, since the non-"natural" is what Macs used to use for eons, I've continued with that in Mojave on my iMac.

 

[ericwn]

Yah keep saying that to yourself

Apple doesn't cave in to demands? And why they introduced first Apple Pencil then Mouse Support to their tablet after announcing several times that they'd never do it? Get on with times, Apple is not the leading company in innovation anymore.

However, a simple stylus was what they were opposed to. The Apple Pencil is far from that and a good accessory that you can sell on a dedicated content creation device.
Taking these things on board is product evolution, there’s nothing innovative about these ideas whatsoever.