That's exactly my point. Apple is not (was not) being innovative by keeping stylus and mouse off of iPad and being so adamant about keeping it finger-input only. And as you said, it is product evolution, as well as evolution of user experience, nothing to debate about Apple "not caving into demands" BS. A tech company can not ignore trends and evolution of tech use.
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All iPads I was wrong about the mouse on iPads
- Thread starter aevan
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There is no way I'd make a blanket statement about Apple caving, or not caving, to pressure from the public as it is all over the map on when they "listen" to customer's feature requests. There are examples from both sides. Remember when we'd never, ever get a phone with a large screen?
Who is the leading company in innovation?Yah keep saying that to yourself
Apple doesn't cave in to demands? And why they introduced first Apple Pencil then Mouse Support to their tablet after announcing several times that they'd never do it?Get on with times, Apple is not the leading company in innovation anymore.
Get over it..? Why? Because u said so?
If this is a Pro device, which supports mouse & keyboard and even an external display, why shouldn’t i want it to be a real hybrid solution for Pro users..?
We want our devices to be as flexible as they can be, and it seems that the IPP from a hardware perspective has the abilities to be a pro device, so why not do exactly that..?
This is the future of computing, not a “get over it” device.
I agree to an extent. I would like to say I have learned the lesson to say “Apple will (or will never) do __________”... but I haven’t. Following Apple a long time (even before the return of Steve Jobs), all I can really say is “Apple will do what Apple wants to do (which may or may not include what people want them to do)”.
I will also concede that it’s often hard to tell what is and is not based on Customer response (and which customers).
On this particular point, I’m still of the view that this really is meant to be an Accessibility feature and the “target” cursor is meant to reinforce the Touch aspect. I could be wrong - and I hope that I am (for the sake of those that want “real” mouse support). I guess be hopeful, but keep it managed in the case that isn’t what Apple has in mind.
I will COMPLETELY disagree with you on the stylus point - the whole point was to get people to use Touch as a primary method of input on a device, something people were NOT used to doing. Just about every other tablet and mobile device used a stylus as the primary pointing device - and people were used to it due to the popularity of the Palm Pilot.
Also, given that the first few iterations of the iPad really were meant as a companion to a desktop/laptop, and meant as content consumption devices, the stylus really was NOT necessary.
It was only after the explosion of the iPad in the Enterprise environment that they really changed direction on the iPad being more than consumption and got into the creation business.
I would agree that Apple probably waited a few more years than they should have (they probably should have introduced it around the time of the Air or Air 2), but keeping a stylus off the initial iPads was the correct move.
To the last point, a good tech company should not be reactive to trends and evolution of use, but be setting the standard. I’m not saying “innovative” (namely because that words is misused and misunderstood), but Apple has done this well for many years. They may not be on the cutting edge of all the new technology - and neither should they be. Apple, to a large extent, has been way ahead of understanding consumer trends, far more than many other tech companies, and a lot of times that means NOT listening to the voices of the “tech users” but understanding “every day” users.
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The future of CAD work is moving away from a desktop experience. More and more CAD will be designed on mobile devices with Augmented Reality in mind. The desktop, as always, will still be a place for creation, but we’re already seeing HUGE movements of the usage of CAD in mobile environments and I know there are more powerful mobile applications for creation and modification on the way.
^^^ https://www.shapr3d.com/
https://architosh.com/2018/03/why-shapr3d-changes-the-ipad-pro-story-from-toy-to-tool/
The manufacturing CAD industry’s most important geometry kernel, Siemens Parasolid, is now fully written for Apple’s mobile platform. “The Apple iOS platform has been important to Siemens Parasolid,” says Evan Knuttila, vice president of global sales, PLM Components, Siemens. “We have some really strong users, and we began to see demand for iOS back when we started working with Istvan back in 2015.”
https://architosh.com/2018/03/why-shapr3d-changes-the-ipad-pro-story-from-toy-to-tool/
The manufacturing CAD industry’s most important geometry kernel, Siemens Parasolid, is now fully written for Apple’s mobile platform. “The Apple iOS platform has been important to Siemens Parasolid,” says Evan Knuttila, vice president of global sales, PLM Components, Siemens. “We have some really strong users, and we began to see demand for iOS back when we started working with Istvan back in 2015.”
There is no such thing as "leading company" right now. If you look at last CES many tech companies, including Intel, are coming up with various prototypes and new designs, trying to see what excites the crowd.
When did Apple last innovate? I haven't used the touchbar rubbish on my MBP in the last 3 years. Yet you see companies like Asus, Intel, Lenovo coming up with dual screen laptop designs which are more innovative than the strip of oled screen with emoji on it. Oh, and an on-screen keyboard is still more reliable than the butterly mechanicsm.
Also, iPad is now becoming more popular with added Stylus and keyboard, but remember all the reviews on 2018 model: "still an ipad". Finally with iPadOS sales will gain more momentum. Couldn't have Apple done what's in iPadOS when they first introduced the iPad Pro? They certainly could have, there was nothing lacking technology. And we should all agree that Apple is a company with shareholders, has to make money year after year, they can't just do tings for the sake of "leading the industry", they sometimes have to "cave in" to the trends if they need to continue making bucks.
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I think thats kinda the point. There are a lot of companies with good products and some companies with a couple innovative products, but you just don't see 1 company putting everyone else to shame
Anyone that thinks apple ISN'T innovative is just plain blind and has a clear bias against them. Looking at them objectively: AirPods were innovative. And it was a product everybody laughed at when first announced. Now it literally owns the market. Apple Watch had the same progression. thought of as completely useless (why cant I just use my phone for everything right?) now you see them everywhere you go. Their mobile ARM chips are incredible and lead the market in performance. What they have done in the health sector and working with healthcare professionals is incredibly innovative. What about their work on accessibility for the disabled? They do more for that than anyone I know of. Face ID as well as Touch ID before it were incredibly innovative. Remember biometrics before apple entered the game?
It seems people put apple on this pedestal as if apple is expected to release generation defining products every year. They look at their iPhone and get bored and watch a science fiction movie and wonder why we won't have holographic displays. And you yourself mention laptops (or just one right?) that experiment with putting large touchscreens by the keyboard as if this is some big feature everybody needs. Apple doesn't experiment like that. They try to take something they know they can make better, work on it until it seems like a finished product that the masses can find use of, and then release it. They aren't interested in touchscreen laptops.
Have you taken the time to read research papers' from apple's research and development departments? They have a number of phd's working on amazing things there
Don't misunderstand, I am not bashing Apple as a whole. If you see my signature you'll see I buy almost all Apple products. But I just don't believe Apple's latest design choices can be called "innovative", with exceptions like the AirPods which I purchased first day they came out and love using.
I very well know Apple doesn't experiment and doesn't use technologies till they're mature enough for quality products. It's the "Apple doesn't cave in to customer demands" BS just needs to stop. No company is immune to public demands and use trends. Apple tried to set a trend with the super thin butterfly keys design, failed, tried the touchbar on macbooks pros, didn't quite catch public attention. Ignored availability of additional input options on ipads, sales dropped.
I am not saying iPad Pro should be or should have been a keyboard+mouse input only device. I personally like that primary input is by finger touch (and iPad is my most favorite Apple product of all time btw). But they shouldn't have ignored additional input methods (which doesn't require any additional hardware or physical design changes), and we can see well with iPadOS now that they"caved in" to the demands. Even fixed the horrendous cursor they named "accessibility feature" and made it resizable in the next Beta version. If Apple didn't care about users, they wouldn't make such changes in Beta versions.
If you don’t think apple is listening....well. You’re the one not listening. Look at iOS 13. Or “iPad os”. External drive support, better files app, even mouse support! And did you see the new report saying apple may be releasing new MacBook with scissor keys? That is apple listening. And I’m glad for it.
I think it goes like this: apple tries to work out what would be a good product. They experiment in the labs until they’re satisfied they’ve cracked it and then it’s released. It’s always a great product when it comes out. But it’ll receive criticism for something. Take when apple basically said the iPhone shouldn’t be larger than 4 inches. Remember that ad showing the thumb and how far it can go? They tried it and stuck with it for a few years but they saw phablets we’re catching on, admitted they were wrong and designed one to accommodate the needs of those customers. Same with the iPad. Steve Jobs said an iPad shouldn’t be smaller than 10 inches. Then we got the iPad mini. Then later the iPad Pro and their increased sizes.
What about when people ask for usb c? Then they get it with thee iPad Pro. Next year it’ll be on the iPhone. People see a finished product they like with issues. Apple listens but drags their feet but if the customer is right in so and so instance, they seem to listen.
What else do we really need right now that’s THAT big of a deal? Redesigned keyboards, constant updates and more consistency with their products.
People freak out about Jony Ive “leaving” (even though he kinda didn’t) but I think him having a smaller role is better. Just look at when Steve Jobs died. He got apple started, but he was too stubborn about certain design decisions. Like what I stated earlier. He leaves and boom. We see these sweeping changes. I think apple is in a good place right now. I don’t have any reason to look at any of my apple stuff with disgust and wanna throw it out the window
Umm..I am saying Apple IS listening. My whole arguement was that the below quoted post is BS. If Apple didn't listen they wouldn't introduce a stylus, keyboard and mouse support to iPad, and there wouldn't be an iPadOS. Did you read my post?
THIS is why I hate when people talk about "innovation" - as if the only way to "innovate" is to throw tech at a product on the market and see what sticks.
First of all, Apple is a consumer electronics company. They are in the business of building and selling products, not constantly being the first to market with new technology. That means Apple is perfectly happy to let Samsung be the first to market with a foldable phone because they know Samsung came up with some kind of tech and slapped it into a product before figuring out how people are going to use it. Apple will release a foldable device when they have a grasp on how people are going to integrate it into their lives (and how they can market it). In the mean time, they're going to continue to make products that people want to buy.
A perfect example of this personally is FaceID. Microsoft has had facial recognition on their Surface products for a few years, but it often doesn't work (or it takes a long time if it does work). FaceID has been flawless for me. My introduction to the tech was on the Surface, but Apple is the gold standard for me because it works so well.
Second, Apple is still one of the leading "innovative" companies in the space of consumer electronics and services. Apple has large scale innovations (like the iPod, iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch and soon AR - categories that include more than just technology, but change the way people interact with categories of devices - things that may not have been first to market, but are polished products that consumers will want to buy and integrate into their lives), medium scale innovations (like the continued pushing out of physical ports / buttons towards a button-less device), and smaller scale innovations (the TONS of things Apple does on the engineering [hardware & software] side that make it a great product, but people will rarely or never notice individually - such as all of the work in the display improvements in the iPad Pro).
Third, just because Apple hasn't completely revolutionized a market category in a few years (which most companies are lucky if they do once or twice in their history - Apple has done quite a few times), doesn't mean they're not innovating down in the engineering department. Personally, I think Apple is going to completely change how we think about Augmented Reality. They're already the most used devices when it comes to AR, and what they've been doing with ARKit has been amazing, but if you're looking for a game changer, stay tuned.
And obviously you haven't been reading mine and just keep coming back to the same well.
Yah keep saying that to yourself
Apple doesn't cave in to demands? And why they introduced first Apple Pencil then Mouse Support to their tablet after announcing several times that they'd never do it?
1. They never said they will not add Pencil support. If you’re referring to Steve Jobs stylus quote, it was about something completely different.
2. Not that it matters, but I don’t think they specifically said no to mouse support either. They only said they don’t plan touchscreen Macs, but even that is always phrased “currently we have no plans”.
3. Tech companies change plans. They have to. Things change, especially in tech. The ability to rethink their ways is one of the better things about modern Apple.
4. A mouse is innovation? But an i7-beating passive cooled CPU, a 600 nit screen that changes refresh rates on the fly and on just one part and dynamically adapts the white point to the environment, a 9ms latency Pencil with wireless charging - these are not? Ok, interesting.
5. Actually, it’s not important to be a leading company in innovation, it’s important to make good products.
6. Apple is one of the leading companies in innovation, by the way. They also make good products.
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All A series chips.
AirPods.
True Depth camera.
ProMotion.
Almost everything about the Pro Display XDR.
T1 and T2 chips.
Taptic engine.
Just the first few that came to mind.
Oh, I’m sorry, were you counting just the things you personally consider as innovation? Then who knows, maybe iPhone, I guess.
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