Yeah but that's not the point. "Fixing" it so that people are practically obliged to use wireless headphones is not fixing anything at all. The choice we have now, where the use of either option is free and unimpeded is what I meant by the situation not being broke. The jack still fits, the marketplace is still rammed with loads of wired headphone choices that don't exist in wireless form, and people seem to be happy to be able to use either as their situation dictates. There doesn't appear to be a problem to solve here, at least not yet.
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I wonder why Apple chose a headphone port instead of a 2nd USB
- Thread starter FrozenDarkness
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Yeah but that's not the point. "Fixing" it so that people are practically obliged to use wireless headphones is not fixing anything at all. The choice we have now, where the use of either option is free and unimpeded is what I meant by the situation not being broke. The jack still fits, the marketplace is still rammed with loads of wired headphone choices that don't exist in wireless form, and people seem to be happy to be able to use either as their situation dictates. There doesn't appear to be a problem to solve here, at least not yet.
Nobody is obliged to use wireless headphones, though it makes the point that it is the most convenient option for use with a laptop, or any device for that matter -- just like the single port does with iCloud. A simple external DAC dongle likely offering higher quality audio than offered on the rMB would allow the consumer to use whatever wired headphone they want. Or they could use a wired headphone with the DAC built-in. And since when has Apple ever cared about what the marketplace is loaded with, or what people are content with using? They certainly didn't when they eliminated the 30-pin dock connector -- they practically made people buy brand new accessories to use with their iProducts which offered no greater performance than what they were already getting from the 30-pin dock connector, and in some cases worse.
What Apple is accommodating with the 1/8" audio jack, is the lowest common denominator in sound output. If they eliminated the jack, then people would actually have even more choices, because they would be forced to consider what kind of sound they want out of their products. If they are fine with their low-fi, free Apple ear-bud solution, then they buy a dongle and get the 1/8" analogue jack, with arguably superior sound that what Apple offers built-in. If they want a higher audio quality experience, they can chose wireless audio, or wired headphones with built in DACs, or even from a wide offering of external DAC dongles for their higher end 1/4" or 1/8" jack headphones.
Anyway, as soon as Apple wants to offer a slimmer product than they currently offer, they are going to have to decide what to do with the 1/8" audio jack since it barely fits on most of their mobile products now. And if the 30-pin/Lightning connector switch is any indication, the old standby will be history. I'm just surprised they've hung onto it this long.
Lol, just go into any store on the planet and see what people are buying in droves. There's your answer right there as to why they've hung onto it so long! It's not apple that has to do any innovation here, it's the whole headphone market space.
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Wireless audio is demonstrably and provably lower quality than that from the 1/8" jack directly as it's compressed. The likelihood of any headphone with a built-in DAC sounding better than that provided by Apple, who has consistently built extremely good and more importantly, well-implemented audio output stages is extremely slim. If they did, they would likely cost many hundreds of dollars. Nobody other than a few of us geeks is interested in a DAC dongle that they can't hear any difference from.
The reality is that the 1/8" jack does the job perfectly, while being cheap, ubiquitous, and very convenient. The only thing it has against it is that devices are running up against it's size constraints. That's it.
Indeed. Also I think the size constraint thing is a bit of a red herring. I mean of course, we'll see how that goes over the next few years. But really, how thin can a laptop get before its thinness is no longer an increased benefit and starts hitting a wall against physics? I mean, a piece of paper is thin and look - it bends and folds. I'm definitely not saying that we've reached some kind of end game when it comes to notebook design sizes, but surely with the rMB we're getting close to a point where any more thinness doesn't really give you a great deal of benefit, at the cost of hitting the limits of what can be done to maintain any sensible level of rigidity. Not to mention fitting any kind of batteries inside to power it. Anyway who knows, we'll see where it all goes with that. In phones however, it's possibly a different story, they're smaller overall so I could see a point coming much sooner on a phone design where a line might be crossed and physical connectors go away altogether. But it's by no means a sure thing.
Also, I think it was already controversial enough to go to a one USB-C port concept on the rMB to start off with. Imagine if people who had wired headphones they wanted to use were put in the position where they had to use that one precious port just to listen to something. Yes, sure - dongles and third party multi adaptors and so on. But wow that would have been a really really stupid thing to do when the alternative, what they did choose to do, is just so simple and corresponds so correctly to the reality of the marketplace.
Such self assured statements.
So Apple's own wireless Beats headphones offer lower quality audio than that provided on their laptops? I'd like to see the critical studies. And the DAC offered by Apple's own $39 Lightning dock seems to be of equal or better quality than what's in their products. So NO, not many hundreds of dollars. Chances are, another manufacturer could offer Apple's own DAC in a product selling for less. And just because you can't hear the difference, doesn't mean someone else won't appreciate it.
The size constraint has already been demonstrated by Apple to be a real issue with the ubiquitous 30-pin dock connector which replacement for Lightning offered no real benefits to anyone. Nevertheless you acknowledge that Apple may go so thin with their mobile devices that the 1/8" phone jack may be replaced ... so what, then they keep it on the MacBooks, as well as whatever the new digital audio standard is for the mobile devices ... when it's clear Apple is trying to eliminate ports? No, they'd replace it across the line regardless if the MacBooks get any thinner.
But that's a fallacy. Apple suggests that there would have been no ports on the rMB had they not decided that a wired connection is best for charging it -- which I don't buy for a minute. So they make the one port multifunctional as a 'bonus'. But there's not just one port -- there's two counting the audio jack, which is a multifunctional port on the MBPs. So nobody is suggesting removing the audio jack without replacing it, indeed that's the in the subject title by the OP. Apple is not making decisions in a vacuum. They chose to go with one digital port and one analogue port, when they could have offered two digital ports. There's built-in speakers to listen to something, and an inducement for customers to buy new wireless headphones, or a dongle to keep using their free iPhone earbuds. Again, the marketplace responds to what Apple choses to do. One look at the iPhone accessory market is proof of that ... just go look at how many once ubiquitous 30-pin dock devices are still being made. Customers didn't want to replace their perfectly good accessories, but Apple forced them to, and the marketplace responded. Theres nothing correct about it. Apple just wasn't ready to make the logical change to digital, because so many other new products and important updates were on the horizon.
Meh. I just don't buy it. And if they'd gone with two USB-C ports and no headphone jack, then I'd have been among the people saying well that was dumb, there goes that second port just so I can use my headphones. Brilliant move. Also I doubt that Apple has the power alone to convince the entire world to switch to wireless headphones, they're far from being the only game in town and I think on this particular battleground, they're smart enough to know it.
Interesting to see the number of comments on here from people who think of a headphone jack as a useful component in a laptop. Surprised me a lot. I've never used a headphone jack on a laptop and don't know anyone who does. I suppose people who need (or choose) to listen to things when on a plane or other public space would do.
I sometimes use wireless headphones (but from my iphone rather than a computer), and I've plugged external speakers into a headphone jack (in the absence of a separate line out) on a desktop computer in the days before USB speaker systems. But never felt the need to plug headphones into a laptop. Nor an iPad or iphone for that matter... whenever I sell my old iPads and iPhones the earbuds are always still sitting in the box wound up
Suffice to say I would certainly have preferred a second USB-C port, if only for charging.
I sometimes use wireless headphones (but from my iphone rather than a computer), and I've plugged external speakers into a headphone jack (in the absence of a separate line out) on a desktop computer in the days before USB speaker systems. But never felt the need to plug headphones into a laptop. Nor an iPad or iphone for that matter... whenever I sell my old iPads and iPhones the earbuds are always still sitting in the box wound up
Suffice to say I would certainly have preferred a second USB-C port, if only for charging.
This is so upsettingly typical of apologists.
It is not a problem at all that there is only one port because we are living in a wireless wolrd (iCloud etc.). It does not matter that wireless connections are not as reliable or fast as the wired ones.
It is good that there is a headphone port as the wired connection represents a much higher quality.
What is the reason for this contradicting argumentation? The unquestionable design of the machine.
Just once, try to be consistent.
It is not a problem at all that there is only one port because we are living in a wireless wolrd (iCloud etc.). It does not matter that wireless connections are not as reliable or fast as the wired ones.
It is good that there is a headphone port as the wired connection represents a much higher quality.
What is the reason for this contradicting argumentation? The unquestionable design of the machine.
Just once, try to be consistent.
Of course, the rMB would have been a better computer from a principal stand without a headphone jack. Unfortunately, Apple is much more a pragmatic computer maker, so sometimes they are slow with removing stuff.
I think the very opposite is true. Apple, contrary to the rest of the marketplace, do think about their vision and consequently remove things all the time while also introducing new ideas when they have them. Other manufacturers tend to have far less of an interest in any of this, and pretty much just build what everyone else is building and selling.
But in this instance, yes I agree they made a decision with some pragmatic thinking behind it. But I don't see how any principles are compromised, it's not like wireless headphones aren't fully supported. Have been for years.
I agree. Since Steve Jobs left, Apple has certainly been much more conservative with their products. Removing the 1/8" phone jack is one example of technology that could better be served by outboard gear, or wirelessly. It's clear speculation as to whether Apple made this decision out of pure market research or whether the timing was wrong given the substantial and troublesome product launches they were simultaneously making, or something else altogether. My vote is that it is in the works, both from a design perspective, as well as to accommodate an impending change from 16bit to 24bit HD audio support in the mobile devices.
You know, it's interesting that you make this observation, which happens to reflect my own. One perk for moving the audio to an outboard DAC, is that such a port can power things like noise cancellation in headphones which are quite popular for airplanes, and noisy public spaces. Otherwise, they require a bulky battery pack. Such a connection could also support a much wider array of digital control features, just as a wireless headphone can. Far superior to a any headphone that can just plug into a 1/8" phone jack, and something that would make the switch for many justifiable.
I just got a marketing survey from Apple asking about my use of, opinions on, and satisfaction with the new MacBook. After I noted that one of the (few) peripherals I use with my MB is headphones, it specifically asked me whether I use wired or bluetooth headphones, and some questions about frequency of use. I'd say that Apple hasn't decided to remove the headphone jack yet, but they're definitely considering the question for the future.
Thought I would resurrect this thread in light of this patent revelation from Apple:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...9,142,925.PN.&OS=PN/9,142,925&RS=PN/9,142,925
Seems clear Apple is exploring ways to reduce the profile of the headphone connector they are currently using in their devices. Obviously such a major design change would require adapters for anyone wanting to use a pre-existing headphone without Apple's proprietary jack configuration. And it would require the user to correctly orient Apple's proprietary connector. Of course, they would only need modify the connector in those devices that could not accommodate a full-sized port.
However, while extending the life of 1870s technology, it will require adapters for anyone seeking to use standard mini phone connectors. At this point, wouldn't it be far more advantageous to go with a non-proprietary solution, and if an adapter is going to be required anyway, offer native Lightning port solutions, and DAC adapters for analogue audio connections.
Apple has doubled down on its use of Lightning, in the Apple Pencil, and ATV remote, which would make a fine replacement port for the rMB adding at least some multi-functional port support, if not full USB-C. It's also a connector anyone who owns an Apple product is going to already be familiar with.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...9,142,925.PN.&OS=PN/9,142,925&RS=PN/9,142,925
Seems clear Apple is exploring ways to reduce the profile of the headphone connector they are currently using in their devices. Obviously such a major design change would require adapters for anyone wanting to use a pre-existing headphone without Apple's proprietary jack configuration. And it would require the user to correctly orient Apple's proprietary connector. Of course, they would only need modify the connector in those devices that could not accommodate a full-sized port.
However, while extending the life of 1870s technology, it will require adapters for anyone seeking to use standard mini phone connectors. At this point, wouldn't it be far more advantageous to go with a non-proprietary solution, and if an adapter is going to be required anyway, offer native Lightning port solutions, and DAC adapters for analogue audio connections.
Apple has doubled down on its use of Lightning, in the Apple Pencil, and ATV remote, which would make a fine replacement port for the rMB adding at least some multi-functional port support, if not full USB-C. It's also a connector anyone who owns an Apple product is going to already be familiar with.
I agree, that doesn't really make much sense at all. What's the point in installing a "standard" socket that doesn't allow other components to be plugged in? It appears to be a picture of a modified plug (male end) which would fit into both a modified socket and a standard one, but there's no point in that unless you're going to install the modified socket into a new piece of equipment.
Far better to sell a USB-C to headphone adaptor and use that, or supply USB-C headphones, or use wireless. If you're going to go USB-C the game will be to move everything to that as soon as possible. They decided it was too soon with the iphone 6s, perhaps it won't be by next year.
Far better to sell a USB-C to headphone adaptor and use that, or supply USB-C headphones, or use wireless. If you're going to go USB-C the game will be to move everything to that as soon as possible. They decided it was too soon with the iphone 6s, perhaps it won't be by next year.
I think it really boils down to the user use distribution. If people demand a headphone jack then it will still be around. I do though agree that as time passes peripherals will change, just as headphones over time will most likely become completely wireless. With the Addition of the APT-X encoding you're getting the same quality you could over a physical wire even at the extremely high bit rates of the best FLAC audio. Not to mention, a normal human couldn't barely distinguish 1000Kb/s FLAC from something like 320Kb/s AAC anyways.
The reason I figured apple moved to USB-C was because they could mitigate a physical USB port, and use a smaller profile port that could be broken into a full USB hub, with the addition of also being capable of powering the whole notebook at the same time as running a separate display over HDMI. That's pretty incredible.
The connection strength on the USB-C port is pretty good at letting the cord go if it's yanked on. I've had a dog get wound up in my MacBook's power cable twice, and both time the cable pulled free without yanking the laptop off the table.
Thanks, thats handy to know as i will be buying one of these at some point, probably wait for the second generation now. If we are very luck that could be oct/nov but probably more likely march/april next year.
Do you think your dog would have pulled it off if the Macbook had been on the arm of a sofa, thats a sofa with flat arms but not as wide as the Macbook.
If I was using it, yes. If it was just sitting there, maybe, but I'd be less confident.
Ummm, than a "redundant" USB port, yes, by definition. But I can't see why you'd think more people would use an audio jack than a general-purpose everything-connector. Again, why would you ever use an audio jack with a laptop?