I wonder why Apple chose a headphone port instead of a 2nd USB

[Psyfuzz]

Because 99.9% of headphones are wired and I'm not buying a pair of bluetooth headphones specifically for a new laptop considering my current wired pair work fine with everything else and I've spend a decent amount on them.

Loosing the headphone port is a stupid idea all round, it's extremely important to nearly everyone who consumes media on their laptop.

Again, why would you ever use an audio jack with a laptop?

Why would I use an audio jack on a laptop? Because if I'm travelling with my device I want to listen to my media without flooding the surrounding area with noise. If I'm at the library and want music alongside my work/studies it's a viable option, if I'm creating content and haven't got adequate referencing equipment on me externally I'm able to do rough mixes and edits on the fly. Basically take any scenario where sound is involved and having a headphone option becomes a huge asset.

Are people really undermining the value of headphones within the laptop space? Go to a campus, library or anywhere people work with their laptops - count the headphones. A huge part of a laptop's usability and enjoyment personally is being able to sit down regardless of the location with some music and log out from the world for a bit.

 

[duervo]

that's fine, the point of this is meant so you can charge and also plug in a device at the time time. also, the chromebook pixel figured it out how to have two usb-cs i feel like apple can as well. it's more like comparing which port is more important for end users.

I think you're confusing Apple's intentional design choice with one that they did "because they couldn't figure out how to put more in."

It was an intentional decision that not everyone agrees with. It doesn't really affect me one way or another. I have my long-in-the-tooth 2012 cMBP with all of its ports, and I only use one of the USB 3.0 ports on occasion (like maybe once or twice a month), and for no longer than 10 or 15 minutes each time. The Ethernet port is used even less often, and the rest of ports have never been used (or used so seldom that I cannot honestly remember the last time I used them.)

There are other products that they make that have more ports, and I suspect that they will (eventually) have some with more than 1 USB-C port. If you don't want to get any of those products, or you don't want to wait, then there's really no constructive reason to complain. In which case, you may as well get a Pixel if you want multiple USB-C ports "right now".

 

[Mac 128]

I think you're confusing Apple's intentional design choice with one that they did "because they couldn't figure out how to put more in." It was an intentional decision that not everyone agrees with.

Yes, but that's slightly disingenuous. Apple stated that they didn't want any ports, but since they decided to have just one for power, they made it the most versatile port possible. What they fail to mention is that this design choice to have only one port is an exaggeration, there really are two ports, the second being a single use port based on 150 year old technology. If Apple wanted to make a real statement with this, they would have required a dongle, or dock to use headphones as well. Apple is basically telling customers if they want more than one thing plugged into to the MacBook at a time, they need a dock. When going portable, such as in an airplane, where few people are going to have the option to plug in their MacBooks to power, they only need the one port to supply headphone audio to wired headphones. All that's needed is a simple little dongle which any rMB user is likely going to have to carry anyway if they want to plug anything else into this rMB, especially legacy equipment like fairly ubiquitous thumb drives. And to the extent that they are already carrying their charger so they can plug in somewhere and simultaneously listen to music, how much more inconvenient is it to carry a thumb-sized dongle to split power and audio?

 

[boltjames]

Yes, but that's slightly disingenuous. Apple stated that they didn't want any ports, but since they decided to have just one for power, they made it the most versatile port possible. What they fail to mention is that this design choice to have only one port is an exaggeration, there really are two ports, the second being a single use port based on 150 year old technology. If Apple wanted to make a real statement with this, they would have required a dongle, or dock to use headphones as well. Apple is basically telling customers if they want more than one thing plugged into to the MacBook at a time, they need a dock. When going portable, such as in an airplane, where few people are going to have the option to plug in their MacBooks to power, they only need the one port to supply headphone audio to wired headphones. All that's needed is a simple little dongle which any rMB user is likely going to have to carry anyway if they want to plug anything else into this rMB, especially legacy equipment like fairly ubiquitous thumb drives. And to the extent that they are already carrying their charger so they can plug in somewhere and simultaneously listen to music, how much more inconvenient is it to carry a thumb-sized dongle to split power and audio?

Stop with this "150 year old technology" already.

What Apple decided is that a single data/power port is what was needed and that the headphone port could stay for the following reasons:

1. It is universal.
2. It has no impact to battery life, thickness or weight.
3. There are no royalties to drive up cost.
4. People who use headphones use them a significant amount of the time.

Compared to ports like SD, USB-A, HDMI, VGA:

1. They are not universal.
2. They have significant impact to battery life, thickness and weight.
3. They have outrageous royalties to drive up costs.
4. They are situational and used sparingly by consumers.

BJ

 

[Mac 128]

Stop with this "150 year old technology" already.

What Apple decided is that a single data/power port is what was needed and that the headphone port could stay for the following reasons:

1. It is universal.
2. It has no impact to battery life, thickness or weight.
3. There are no royalties to drive up cost.
4. People who use headphones use them a significant amount of the time.

While it is universal, it most definitely has an impact on thickness, as the above patent suggests Apple is clearly looking for a way to reduce the thickness of the connector because it's too thick for their plans. They could also reduce costs by including a less expensive DAC since the built-in speakers have relatively low quality audio requirements, compared to the headphones.

The fact Apple has now Trademarked "AirPods" suggests future plans as well.

In the end, it is 150 year old technology which Apple can improve. Add the release of Lightning audio device standards last December, and there's a pretty clear picture that change may be in the air. Continuing to include a port that has one single function, and also is thicker than any other port Apple is currently using in its mobile devices, as well as USB-C, seems uncharacteristically Apple to me. The rMB seems premature to me, but let's see what happens with the iPhone 7, because I don't think the universal headphone jack is going to be part of it, and so goes the rest of the product lineup.

 

[boltjames]

While it is universal, it most definitely has an impact on thickness, as the above patent suggests Apple is clearly looking for a way to reduce the thickness of the connector because it's too thick for their plans. They could also reduce costs by including a less expensive DAC since the built-in speakers have relatively low quality audio requirements, compared to the headphones.

The fact Apple has now Trademarked "AirPods" suggests future plans as well.

In the end, it is 150 year old technology which Apple can improve. Add the release of Lightning audio device standards last December, and there's a pretty clear picture that change may be in the air. Continuing to include a port that has one single function, and also is thicker than any other port Apple is currently using in its mobile devices, as well as USB-C, seems uncharacteristically Apple to me. The rMB seems premature to me, but let's see what happens with the iPhone 7, because I don't think the universal headphone jack is going to be part of it, and so goes the rest of the product lineup.

Releasing a notebook without an integrated headphone jack is like releasing a notebook without a speaker or a camera. It's just not done. It has nothing to do with "technology". It has everything to do with common sense. Removing a headphone jack from a notebook would enrage people; removing HDMI/SD/USB-A/VGA liberates people. It reduces size and weight and price. It puts old technologies on an outboarded dongle for those who absolutely need it. Most people will use an SD slot 2x a year. Most people will use their headphone jack 100x a year.

Regarding Apple's patent around a new headphone jack design, if they are looking to save space in the future that is for their iPhone's not their notebooks. Again, there is ample space for the standard headphone jack even in the thinnest notebooks made today. And they are universal. And they are cheap.

I am constantly amazed at what qualifies as meaningful forum discussion here. This one may very well take the prize.

BJ

 

[Mac 128]

Releasing a notebook without an integrated headphone jack is like releasing a notebook without a speaker or a camera. It's just not done.

You mean like releasing a computer without a floppy drive?

It has nothing to do with "technology". It has everything to do with common sense. Removing a headphone jack from a notebook would enrage people; removing HDMI/SD/USB-A/VGA liberates people. It reduces size and weight and price. It puts old technologies on an outboarded dongle for those who absolutely need it. Most people will use an SD slot 2x a year. Most people will use their headphone jack 100x a year.

Regarding Apple's patent around a new headphone jack design, if they are looking to save space in the future that is for their iPhone's not their notebooks. Again, there is ample space for the standard headphone jack even in the thinnest notebooks made today. And they are universal. And they are cheap.

I am constantly amazed at what qualifies as meaningful forum discussion here. This one may very well take the prize.

BJ

Your condescending tone aside, Apple is looking for a new headphone design to save space. Even if it's truly for their mobile products, Apple is not a company that likes to have a lot of competing standards for the same thing. The fact is the mini-phone jack is the largest port on the Retina MacBook. In order to make that product much thinner, they will most likely have to eliminate that port. Add to the fact it's a dedicated port that only does one thing and it seems even less practical. And despite your assertion that "even in the thinnest notebooks" there's room for the port, this picture suggests otherwise. Apple will have to redesign the MacBook to accommodate a single function audio port if they want to go thinner. And I think it wouldn't surprise anyone to find Apple intends to make this MacBook as thin and light as possible, even over the thinnest notebooks available today.

Apple has enraged customers before, and they will enrage customers again. But I doubt you can come up with an argument that will convince me that an Apple customer will stop buying Apple products just because they take away a dedicated headphone jack, especially if Apple gives them a free pair of Lightning earbuds with their iPhone 7 to replace the free sub-mini jack pair Apple already gave them. Yes, customers will be "enraged", but they will get over it, and buy their dongle, and life goes on for the better.

 

[boltjames]

You mean like releasing a computer without a floppy drive?

The floppy drive was dropped because a) several new technologies were burgeoning on the horizon, b) less than 5% of the population even had a computer to begin with, c) they were incredibly expensive, d) they were incredibly heavy, e) they used incredible amounts of battery.

The headphone jack is the inverse; a) there is no new wired solution gaining traction, b) 150% of the population has headphones, c) the jack is dirt cheap and without royalty, d) it is lightweight, e) it uses fractional battery power.

Your condescending tone aside, Apple is looking for a new headphone design to save space. Even if it's truly for their mobile products, Apple is not a company that likes to have a lot of competing standards for the same thing. The fact is the mini-phone jack is the largest port on the Retina MacBook. In order to make that product much thinner, they will most likely have to eliminate that port. Add to the fact it's a dedicated port that only does one thing and it seems even less practical. And despite your assertion that "even in the thinnest notebooks" there's room for the port, this picture suggests otherwise. Apple will have to redesign the MacBook to accommodate a single function audio port if they want to go thinner. And I think it wouldn't surprise anyone to find Apple intends to make this MacBook as thin and light as possible, even over the thinnest notebooks available today.

1. Meet the iPod Nano. The day that Apple makes a notebook thinner than this is the day they have a headphone jack problem.

2. There are no 'competing' standards for the headphone jack; it's the standard. No one is moved to change because they don't have to.

3. The 3.5mm headphone jack was developed in 1954 for transistor radios. It's not 150 years old. Not even close.

Apple has enraged customers before, and they will enrage customers again. But I doubt you can come up with an argument that will convince me that an Apple customer will stop buying Apple products just because they take away a dedicated headphone jack, especially if Apple gives them a free pair of Lightning earbuds with their iPhone 7 to replace the free sub-mini jack pair Apple already gave them. Yes, customers will be "enraged", but they will get over it, and buy their dongle, and life goes on for the better.

The headphone market is bigger than the notebook market. The notebook has to cater to the headphone. There is no technical, physical, or financial reason for Apple to move away from the 3.5mm standard. So they won't.

BJ

 

[Mac 128]

The floppy drive was dropped because a) several new technologies were burgeoning on the horizon, b) less than 5% of the population even had a computer to begin with, c) they were incredibly expensive, d) they were incredibly heavy, e) they used incredible amounts of battery.

The headphone jack is the inverse; a) there is no new wired solution gaining traction, b) 150% of the population has headphones, c) the jack is dirt cheap and without royalty, d) it is lightweight, e) it uses fractional battery power.

1. Meet the iPod Nano. The day that Apple makes a notebook thinner than this is the day they have a headphone jack problem.

2. There are no 'competing' standards for the headphone jack; it's the standard. No one is moved to change because they don't have to.

3. The 3.5mm headphone jack was developed in 1954 for transistor radios. It's not 150 years old. Not even close.



The headphone market is bigger than the notebook market. The notebook has to cater to the headphone. There is no technical, physical, or financial reason for Apple to move away from the 3.5mm standard. So they won't.

BJ

We shall see. But imagine how much more battery they could squeeze into the nano if there were no headphone jack. There's a reason why they dropped the 30-pin connecter. Splitting hairs on the mini phone jack ... it's a miniature version of the phone plug technology invented in the 1870s, and there are better technologies on the horizon which accomplish many of the other things Apple expects to with their mobile products. Not to mention, the Lightning connector is also royalty free for Apple.

 

[boltjames]

We shall see. But imagine how much more battery they could squeeze into the nano if there were no headphone jack. There's a reason why they dropped the 30-pin connecter. Splitting hairs on the mini phone jack ... it's a miniature version of the phone plug technology invented in the 1870s, and there are better technologies on the horizon which accomplish many of the other things Apple expects to with their mobile products.

How much more battery would drain with your imaginary "Lightning Jack"? A lot more.

Can we get the weekend off from this thread please? Or perhaps discuss the optimum amount of grains of rice one should expect with Moo Shu Pork at the local Chinese restaurant instead?

BJ

 

[Mac 128]

How much more battery would drain with your imaginary "Lightning Jack"? A lot more.

Can we get the weekend off from this thread please? Or perhaps discuss the optimum amount of grains of rice one should expect with Moo Shu Pork at the local Chinese restaurant instead?

BJ

Good thing there's more room to increase the battery capacity then. Look if you don't want to debate this -- don't.

Since when has Apple cared about offering the customer the most battery life available at the expense of making their products thinner -- the answer is: never. Could Apple have left the iPhone thickness the same between models and packed more battery into the case to give customers better battery life they've been asking for? You betcha. But they didn't. So I don't really think they are gonna care if their royalty-free Lightning connector solution draws a little extra battery if they decide they need it to make their devices ever slimmer.

 

[BarcelonaPaul]

I think we are forgetting people who connect speakers and a sub (BOSE for example) to the headphone output of the MacBook or connect it to an amplifier etc. A lot of my friends do this. Apple is or at least used to be all about creativity and sockets like the headphone jack are definitely needed!

 

[Mac 128]

I think we are forgetting people who connect speakers and a sub (BOSE for example) to the headphone output of the MacBook or connect it to an amplifier etc. A lot of my friends do this. Apple is or at least used to be all about creativity and sockets like the headphone jack are definitely needed!

I'm not forgetting it at all. But that's not the most common way a mobile device is used. Even my iMac at work doesn't use the headphone jack, my audio is streamed via AirPlay to my TV connected receiver, and it's much higher quality than any cable runs which can introduce noise.

And speaking of the TV, Apple didn't seem to care about all the people who currently use the optical output to get sound to their home theater setups -- it's equivalent to the headphone jack for such uses. So now TV 4 customers will have to buy dongles and adapters, to upgrade their equipment. Your use case I see as no different.

 

[duervo]

Some advice to the seemingly passionate ones here:

The moment that hyperbole overtakes anything else in a discussion, the discussion is over and is best left alone.

 

[Jessica Lares]

You know what was the first thing I did when I fired up this 2010 MacBook Pro I'm using at the moment?

I plugged in some headphones and loaded up some music in iTunes.

I am not buying a dongle or a $200 pair of bluetooth in-ear/headphones for what a much cheaper pair of wired ones can do better (you know, ones that are $100-150, don't have those extra components but better everything else).

In my case, I am already getting a delay with streaming live video/radio, having to deal with bluetooth will add another few seconds. And the worst part is that because I'm just going to use these bluetooth headphones while sitting at my computer, there's really no point. Plus, I have to deal with charging them - Meaning when the battery dies, which could be whenever, they'll go too. It's expensive when you consider that if you take good care of these things (even the $30 ones), they last you for a long time.

A laptop, isn't made for you to leave around and use as a music player. It sits at a desk, on your lap, or connected to a screen. It isn't like your phone or an iPod you can keep in a bag or pocket and is designed for you to be able to use while it's not in front of you. The times in which you do use it to play audio, tend to be in the background while you're doing something else, or when you're watching a movie or YouTube video.

All which are not cases where a third-party speaker makes any sense.

Another thing to remember is that we all have smartphones (and maybe tablets). Ten years ago, it was more common that our computers would still be the primarily device we'd go for all these things. Now, most people just grab their iPhone and get into bed or whatever.

 

[Mac 128]

You know what was the first thing I did when I fired up this 2010 MacBook Pro I'm using at the moment?

I plugged in some headphones and loaded up some music in iTunes.

I am not buying a dongle or a $200 pair of bluetooth in-ear/headphones for what a much cheaper pair of wired ones can do better (you know, ones that are $100-150, don't have those extra components but better everything else).

In my case, I am already getting a delay with streaming live video/radio, having to deal with bluetooth will add another few seconds. And the worst part is that because I'm just going to use these bluetooth headphones while sitting at my computer, there's really no point. Plus, I have to deal with charging them - Meaning when the battery dies, which could be whenever, they'll go too. It's expensive when you consider that if you take good care of these things (even the $30 ones), they last you for a long time.

A laptop, isn't made for you to leave around and use as a music player. It sits at a desk, on your lap, or connected to a screen. It isn't like your phone or an iPod you can keep in a bag or pocket and is designed for you to be able to use while it's not in front of you. The times in which you do use it to play audio, tend to be in the background while you're doing something else, or when you're watching a movie or YouTube video.

All which are not cases where a third-party speaker makes any sense.

Another thing to remember is that we all have smartphones (and maybe tablets). Ten years ago, it was more common that our computers would still be the primarily device we'd go for all these things. Now, most people just grab their iPhone and get into bed or whatever.

So the first question I have is what kind of headphones did you plug in? Apple's free earbuds that came with your iPod or iPhone?

And second, if you knew the MacBook did not have a standard headphone jack would you have bought a PC instead, rather than a $20 adapter?

Third, you chose MacBook Pro for a reason. Have you ever plugged more than one thing into it at a time, including power?

Fourth, your use case is exactly why I would want wireless headphones with a laptop. Because in order to set it aside, you have to take the headphones off too. I can't tell you how inconvenient that has been for me, especially on an airplane when I have to get out of the way for the guy in window seat who needs to go to the bathroom. Or, when the phone rings and I have to set my MacBook down and walk over to answer it. With wireless, I just set the macbook down and go.

But I'm not even advocating for that. I'm suggesting a multifunctional port that allows the port to do something other than supply audio, while giving a headphone wearer the ability to plug in a pair of wired headphones. Something I would think would be important to a MacBook Pro user. But maybe not and you're planning on buying a new Retina MacBook next with one port. But I have to conclude, if Apple replaces all of their traditional headphone jacks with Lightning connectors, are you going to leave Apple over it and buy a PC? Because that's the only reason for Apple not to do it.

 

[boltjames]

Good thing there's more room to increase the battery capacity then. Look if you don't want to debate this -- don't.

BJ

 

[boltjames]

You know what was the first thing I did when I fired up this 2010 MacBook Pro I'm using at the moment?

I plugged in some headphones and loaded up some music in iTunes.

NOOOOOO!

This can't be true. Headphone jack in a notebook being used? But the thickness.

BJ

 

[Mac 128]

Such interesting developments:

https://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/27/iphone-7-no-3-5mm-headphone-jack-lightning/

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-0-transfer-speeds-new-adapters-in-the-works/

So, Apple seeks patents to reduce the size of the headphone jack. Then Apple launches a Lightning audio standards support program. Then Apple launches a MacBook with just one port, where the single function headphone port is the largest. Now Apple is rumored to open up Lightning to USB 3 speeds making it a much more comprehensive port. And now, Apple is rumored to drop the headphone jack from the next iPhone.

Seems fairly obvious to me -- if all these rumors pan out, Apple will most likely replace the headphone jack on all but possibly it's top line Desktop and Pro Macs to achieve parity with their largest selling mobile device. This of course solves one major criticism of the rMB, which is to offer a dedicated headphone port that can optionally serve almost all of the same functions of USB-C if desired.

 

[boltjames]

Such interesting developments:

So, Apple seeks patents to reduce the size of the headphone jack. Then Apple launches a Lightning audio standards support program. Then Apple launches a MacBook with just one port, where the single function headphone port is the largest. Now Apple is rumored to open up Lightning to USB 3 speeds making it a much more comprehensive port. And now, Apple is rumored to drop the headphone jack from the next iPhone.

Seems fairly obvious to me -- if all these rumors pan out, Apple will most likely replace the headphone jack on all but possibly it's top line Desktop and Pro Macs to achieve parity with their largest selling mobile device. This of course solves one major criticism of the rMB, which is to offer a dedicated headphone port that can optionally serve almost all of the same functions of USB-C if desired.

It's not that interesting, it's merely Apple trying to set a new standard for its devices that would allow for smaller devices and allow Apple to collect a royalty from yet another business segment.

They do this all the time. Whether or not it actually works its way into consumer products remains to be seen.

BJ

 

[Mac 128]

And the plot thickens ...

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...eloping-high-resolution-audio-formats.1945791

 

[boltjames]

And the plot thickens ...

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...eloping-high-resolution-audio-formats.1945791

This would be the dumbest move since Apple Music.

People consume music today, they don't relish it. And people don't want to spend money needlessly on sound quality they can't hear, most of us using our car stereo systems or pedestrian headphones, not $10,000 McIntosh home systems, it's not 1980. And then let me get started on the cost of 'premium HD audio', the crazy file sizes choking our iPhone's, the large download sizes killing our dataplans.

It's cool that Apple is rumored to be looking at fidelity. Let them focus on a new codec, not bloated file sizes.

BJ

 

[0x100]

.

 

[BarcelonaPaul]

Jesus christ why do people even bother with compression nowadays? Harddrives store 10 terabytes. File size has not been relevant for 5 years now. It's not the year 2002 with 20GB drives being all the rage. You could literally store 200 000 songs in 16 bit 1,5 Mbit/s CD-rips (assuming 50MB/song which is a realistic average) on a 10 TB drive.

The only reason we need compression is because of ISPs (mostly mobile) giving data caps instead of bandwidth. This is easily fixed by upgrading infrastructure but that won't happen soon…

Fair point, but I think the vast majority of laptop users don't buy 10TB hard drives. They like me, use the MacBooks SSD For the majority of young people, it seems hard enough getting them to pay 99p of an iTunes download not a 'free' version I saw that Technics were charging £2 for a FLAC single track download. I wouldn't be prepared to pay that. 20p more but no more over the 99p of an iTunes download.

 

[GizmoDVD]

Most of us need a headphone port! You can't take that away.

I've never end used it ever in al, my MacBooks. So "most" is LOL.