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Also sounds good:

"While supporting 64-bit computing for emerging applications, the PowerPC 970 also provides native support for traditional 32-bit applications, which can help preserve users’ and developers’ software investments..."

Sure sounds like it's 'Made for Apple'. Wish they had talked more about its vector unit, though.
 
This chip has to have VMX (or some facsimilie thereof) in order for Apple to use it, right?
 
MHz Obession is unhealthy....

I find it amusing that so many people are, here of all places, are completely obsessed with MHz... Very funny. I look at it like this:

Which would be more efficient at getting work done?

Emptying a pool, 1 bucket at a time, but do the buckets very fast? Or emptying a pool, 1 40-gallon drum at a time, but done slightly slower.

Obviously, the drum will empty the pool faster. A well designed 64-bit CPU at a lower speed will do much better than anything Intel has for the desktop *or* server arena.

AMD and Apple really need to team up and come up with a meaningful speed rating (not AMD's PR "QuantiSpeed" bull...). I can't remember the name of the thingee, but there was a processor I recall hearing about that ran at 100MHz, but was inexpensive and massively parallel, and went really *really* fast.

I think, in the end, Apple would do well to even *reduce* clock speeds if possible. Don't even *try* to compete on that basis. Maybe even put out promo literature that refers to P4s as incredibly expensive EZBake Ovens... If they note "real world" performance specs, not stuff Harry Homeowner doesn't use like Photoshop UnSharp filters, and talk about how their "advanced design" gives them better performance at lower clock, rather than just generate lots of heat, they'd be better off. But Apple is the passive/aggressive co-dependant marketeer... <shrug>

Name names, bust heads, fire whatstheirnamewhowrotetheswitchads. Make funny ads. Hire guys that write beer commercials to do Apple marketing.

"Apple Macintosh. Faster, Sexier, and Easier. Unlike Girls. True."

;)

Binky
 
Originally posted by ogun7
This chip has to have VMX (or some facsimilie thereof) in order for Apple to use it, right?

Correct answers would be NO

But this new CPU does have VMX so the first part of the question isn't really relevant and as for the 2nd part... Apple's software OS X etc runs on G3 class processors right? So AltiVec isn't required either.

All of that being said...

I have a feeling none of this really matters because the VMX unit in the GPUL will play just fine with AltiVec code. From everything I've read...

Dave
 
Originally posted by ogun7
This chip has to have VMX (or some facsimilie thereof) in order for Apple to use it, right?

I think the reuter's line that says "optimized for graphics" imples a vector processor. That would be a way for non-techs to comprehend what SIMD is...

<grin>

Binky
 
What's really sad about this whole MHz matter is that most of us REALLY care what the PC weenies think about Macs. I mean, when you see the reaction on most people's faces when you boot up X on a Powerbook, they're already hooked. so the "elegant" interface is what really matters most. Speed is only important really when it comes to people like me who study animation and visual effects and 99% of the folks in school look at you like you need to be committed when you say you want to use a Mac for 3D. ( The IT department knows better, though...)
 
Re: MHz Obession is unhealthy....

Originally posted by DharvaBinky


I think, in the end, Apple would do well to even *reduce* clock speeds if possible. Don't even *try* to compete on that basis. Maybe even put out promo literature that refers to P4s as incredibly expensive EZBake Ovens... If they note "real world" performance specs, not stuff Harry Homeowner doesn't use like Photoshop UnSharp filters, and talk about how their "advanced design" gives them better performance at lower clock, rather than just generate lots of heat, they'd be better off. But Apple is the passive/aggressive co-dependant marketeer... <shrug>


Binky

no offense but i think you're nuts. you're thinking of ways for apple to dupe the public. you would rather have them spend their time doing that then actually make their computers faster? ghz is not a myth. the upcoming 3ghz p3 will be faster than the dual 1.25 mac. some of you people are coming up with very creative ideas on being complacent.
 
Originally posted by ogun7
What's really sad about this whole MHz matter is that most of us REALLY care what the PC weenies think about Macs.

so what's the difference between a pc weenie and a mac weenie? :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re: MHz Obession is unhealthy....

Originally posted by Jookbox


no offense but i think you're nuts. you're thinking of ways for apple to dupe the public. you would rather have them spend their time doing that then actually make their computers faster? ghz is not a myth. the upcoming 3ghz p3 will be faster than the dual 1.25 mac. some of you people are coming up with very creative ideas on being complacent.

I think he's nuts too, but it's not being complacent to want Apple to market the 'Megahertz Myth' harder. I want and need faster chips for 3D and digital video, but I stay Mac for the efficiency of the OS
 
Re: Re: MHz Obession is unhealthy....

Originally posted by Jookbox


no offense but i think you're nuts. you're thinking of ways for apple to dupe the public. you would rather have them spend their time doing that then actually make their computers faster? ghz is not a myth. the upcoming 3ghz p3 will be faster than the dual 1.25 mac. some of you people are coming up with very creative ideas on being complacent.

So what. A 900MHz Itanium 2 would wipe the floor with both of those chips. People who focus on an oscillation frequency rather than the bigger picture of system design are just playing into the marketing department's hands. If you think Apple would be duping the public by doing something like that, just wait till Intel starts their marketing spin for Itanium or a slower clocked P5. They'll have a lot of explaining to do to Joe Consumer.

End game is that GHz is a piss poor rating to put on a box as a performance indicator.
 
Re: MHz Obession is unhealthy....

Originally posted by DharvaBinky
I find it amusing that so many people are, here of all places, are completely obsessed with MHz... Very funny. I look at it like this:

Which would be more efficient at getting work done?

Emptying a pool, 1 bucket at a time, but do the buckets very fast? Or emptying a pool, 1 40-gallon drum at a time, but done slightly slower.

Obviously, the drum will empty the pool faster. A well designed 64-bit CPU at a lower speed will do much better than anything Intel has for the desktop *or* server arena.

Your analogy does not work correctly for most applications. It assumes that the work is nearly continuous and is not made up of certain logical atomic units.

If you are primarily working with image manipulation on 32-bit pixels, a 64-bit processor does not bring anything to the table other than the ability to manipulate images larger than 4GB more efficiently. A 64-bit processor does not perform two 32-bit arithmetic operations per clock cycle.

A 64-bit processor does bring a lot to the table for anything that consumes large amounts of memory or lots and lots of long integer or floating point calculations. For chunking on a 300MB TIFF 8-bit color image or running iMovie, you probably are not going to see any improvements beyond those provided by the large cache and newer design.

I imagine the 3D rendering guys and movie producers have to be eagerly anticipating Apples based upon this chip. For most of us using PowerMac G4s today, the Pentium 4 will still offer more useable horsepower.
 
"Running at a speed of up to 900 megahertz, the bus can deliver information to the processor at up to 6.4 gigabytes per second"

talking about FSB! that number sounds super cool and 6.4 G bytes comes indeed down to 64 bit wide at 860 MHz...
 
Originally posted by GPTurismo
A) I am running OS X 10.2 on a g3 400 with 256 ram and it is running very damn smooth. Try running XP on a 400 p3 with 256 and see how nice it is.
D) Just shut up your whining. Sheesh. Apple is looking to be the first true 64 bit OS + System out there. and you guys still whine.

I do A all the time at work, it is fine. And much faster in day to day activities than the cube I use at the same time. Sorry it is just a fact.

As to B linux and FreeBSD will both have full 64 bit version on Itanium and Hammer at least 9 months before this hits the streets.
 
kenohki:

So what. A 900MHz Itanium 2 would wipe the floor with both of those chips. People who focus on an oscillation frequency rather than the bigger picture of system design are just playing into the marketing department's hands. If you think Apple would be duping the public by doing something like that, just wait till Intel starts their marketing spin for Itanium or a slower clocked P5. They'll have a lot of explaining to do to Joe Consumer.
Since when will Intel be marketing a Itanium II system starting at like $7000 to $10000 to "Joe Consumer"? And why does everyone here think that the P5 will be clocked lower, when all indications are that the "P5" will simply be a modified P4 on 90nm process tech? I swear, everything about P4's and Intel is distorted to suit people's wildest fantasies and their deep insecurities about current Mac hardware.
 
Oh, and for those people thinking Apple is pioneering this whole 64-bit thing, or even those that think it will be the first 64-bit desktop, you should look at this Sun computer:

http://www.sun.com/desktop/sunblade150/

Similar models have been available for a year or two, starting at about $1000. And lets not forget what porovaara said about 64-bit Linux on Hammers and Itaniums... quite true.
 
There are way too many assumptions going on here. The facts as I see them are.

IBM PowerPC 970 at up to 1.8Ghz by second half of next year.
It will support up to 6.4GB/s throughput on the bus.
It is a 64bit processor with backwards 32bit support.
It does have VMX coprocessor on board.
We do not know if Apple even plans on using this processor.

What needs to be said is we do not know how fast this processor is. We do know that clock cycles are not the end all speed factor of any cpu. Also to anyone claiming how fast this processor is, how do you know? This is not a Power4 it is based on it but it is different.

What is also fact is in the next year or so cpu speeds are going to take a tremendous plunge and 1.8Ghz is not that slow as compared to what is going to be on the cutting edge in a year or so. Intel will be marketing a faster processor then the current 3Ghz P4s but the same processor will also have a much lower frequency.

I also believe that Motorola has a new cpu hidden up there sleeves that will be released early next year. This is in my oppinion the processor that Apple will be using come July.
 
MacBandit, others:

Where in the heck is this low-clocked Intel chip rumor coming from? I know that there is going to be a new chip for latops that clocks lower, but it is not the Pentium 5.

Someone needs to provide linkage to back up this whole low-clock Pentium 5 thing.
 
Power4 in Xserve?

Question to somebody who may know: If Apple wanted to boost Xserve for a more demanding market (Hollywood-remember shake etc), could they use the Power4 chip (not the light version) with little trouble? MOM
 
Re: Power4 in Xserve?

Originally posted by MOM
Question to somebody who may know: If Apple wanted to boost Xserve for a more demanding market (Hollywood-remember shake etc), could they use the Power4 chip (not the light version) with little trouble? MOM
They'd need to completely redesign the motherboard, and the cost would go way, way up, and they wouldn't be able to fit the Xserve in a 1U form factor anymore, and the Power4 doesn't have a SIMD unit, so... not really. :)
 
Originally posted by GPTurismo
A) I am running OS X 10.2 on a g3 400 with 256 ram and it is running very damn smooth. Try running XP on a 400 p3 with 256 and see how nice it is.

Originally posted by porovaara
I do A all the time at work, it is fine. And much faster in day to day activities than the cube I use at the same time. Sorry it is just a fact.

And I'm running XP on a 366 PII, w/ 256meg, runs fine, actually a little snappier than windows 2k was.
 
Re: New processor

Originally posted by Roger1
I didn't see this link posted. Probably just a copy of the same announcement. Enjoy
http://reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=technologynews&StoryID=1571983

With all this banter over how painfl it is to wait, and how Intel is stomping all over Motorols'a Mhz, and how people are talking anbout running out and buying a pee cee and all, I thought a brief and likely ignored bit of insight would be helpful.

People buy macs for reasons mainly OTHER than pure speed. If the computer does what YOU want it to do, the slight premium you pay compared to those chop shiops that make up pee cee kits to order, is more than made up by system reliability, component parts quality, and more than double the service life.

As with any computer product, there will always be a twice as good computer a short year away. But it is a year away. To deal with reality you have to buy the best computer you can afford when it is time for YOU to buy one.

Rocketman
 
Looks like it's time to finally start saving for a Mac. 64-bit OSX. Mmmmmmmm sweet!

I've been using a Windows PC for a while now. Can't say I've been too impressed, especially with Microsoft. I've been wanting to get a Mac, but the slowness of the processor has made me think twice. No longer. Hopefully this time next year I'll be the proud owner of a new Mac.
 
I don't know if someone has posted this (didn't feel like reading 4 pages) but Apple will use the IBM processors.
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_689753.html?menu=news.technology

Anyway, I hope the PPC 970 will live up to the expectations, I mean 1.8 Ghz (probably with larger pipelines -> less power in one clockcycle) in late 2003 isn't really mindblowing. At the end of 2003, Intel's chip will probably run at 4-5 Ghz.
 
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