Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Not even more than a few years ago, the idea of "managing" an Apple device was crazy. The reason IT departments resisted Apple devices was not because they hated Apple or were afraid of being replaced, it was because it was very difficult to manage Apple devices at a company level. Tools to deploy Macs were almost non-existist and did not scale very well.
Ahem.

Let me introduce you to the best-kept secret in the Apple IT world: Apple Remote Desktop (ARD). It has been around for quite some time (back to OS X 10.2, or maybe before), and is pretty snazzy. Why Apple doesn't make a bigger deal out of it is a complete mystery to me.

Check it out:

http://www.apple.com/remotedesktop/
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak
Bull5hit. I have half a dozen computers, two each of Mac, Linux, and Windows. Linux (desktop, not server) requires the most support by many factors. Windows requires the least unless you're a developer, in which case, switch to Mac or Linux. For development, Linux is best until you screw something up, which is easy to do and results in wasted days until you've attained god-level Linux skills. Perhaps the IBM statement isn't accounting for developers using Macs and figuring things out for themselves rather than asking for support. So the support cost is hidden but it's there in all the developer time wrangling package managers and permissions and such.

Also, consider what someone does with a Windows machine, upgrading components for gaming and such. If you include optional upgrades as support time, it becomes an apple to oranges comparison.
 
Last edited:
If Apple hasn't released an updated version of the 2013 Mac Pro (Which is non-upgradeable), then yeah. You're going to save money because you have no options

Says someone who is clearly ignorant of corporate purchasing cycles.

Hint: Large corporations, even if they buy from Dell, HP, or the like, don't just run out to the store and buy whatever is on the shelf. They pick a particular model (or set of models) with particular specs and components, and buy *that* for anywhere from 3-8 years at a time, depending on their desktop refresh interval. Being *able* to do that is one of the things that saves a large corporation so much on system maintenance.

The lack of refreshes isn't actually a significant hindrance in those scenarios.
 
Apple products require lest IT support. Who knew? Certainly not the open system PC "experts of the world" that pushed the notion that the Mac eco system as a toy box. One must always be careful when there is too much agreement from experts in a school of thought ignores and even ridicules another school of though based on emotion rather than objective evidence.
 
Part of our cost mitigation is that we have to refresh out Windows Latitudes after 3 years but stretch our Macs to 4... it's an enormous cost saving. To say nothing of the annual support cost average... 4 submitted incidents per user per Mac, versus 27 submitted incidents per user per PC (we have 800 Macs and 2500 PCs)... guess which one costs us more overall.

Regardless your experience doesn't match others.

And then we deal with the **** state of the Mac operating system. It's completely screwed with out of date APIs, incomplete new APIs, poor drivers, and a file manager that crumbles to its knees when dealing high traffic over a corporate network.

Save money all you want on hardware. You still have to live with a clunky OS that has been going downhill since 10.6.8
 
Bull5hit. I have half a dozen computers, two each of Mac, Linux, and Windows. Linux (desktop, not server) requires the most support by many factors. Windows requires the least unless you're a developer, in which case, switch to Mac or Linux. For development, Linux is best until you screw something up, which is easy to do and results in wasted days until you've attained god-level Linux skills. Perhaps the IBM statement isn't accounting for developers using Macs and figuring things out for themselves rather than asking for support. So the support cost is hidden but it's there in all the developer time wrangling package managers and permissions and such.

Also, consider what someone does with a Windows machine, upgrading components for gaming and such. If you include optional upgrades as support time, it becomes an apple to oranges comparison.

IBM statement is very easy to explain. They sell Macs now (or a service for them). Just like any, say, Ford dealer is praising Ford cars, IBM, being Apple dealer, is praising Macs. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rjohnstone
I can't speak for computers on a grand, enterprise level (as I feel that IBM is talking about in this article), but articles like this always intrigue me. With electronics, mileage varies from person to person. For me, I've owned Windows and Macs both throughout my life--I love both platforms! And I've never had a problem with either.

I'm afraid that the stereotype with Windows PC's is that they just "break" over time. But I've never had this issue. As a matter of fact, last week I broke out my ten-year old gaming PC to play Oblivion. It still works like a charm!

In the low volumes that individuals deal with (typically *one* computer every few years), even if you buy the most/least reliable system out there, you can still get the one that doesn't fit the curve. I owned a Packard Bell (during the time when their systems were earning their reputation as pieces of crap), but mine never gave me any trouble. When we have software issues, its almost always a case of 'solve it once and move on'.

Corporations, especially large ones like IBM, on the other hand buy enough systems that they get to see the actual trends of reliability, and have to deal with those trends. When they run into software issues, it's a matter of 'solve it once, deploy the solution to every system, then figure out why it isn't working for these subsets of those systems, etc.'. Small differences in reliability (hardware *or* software) add up to significant costs or savings over time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak and v0lume4
Ahem.

Let me introduce you to the best-kept secret in the Apple IT world: Apple Remote Desktop (ARD). It has been around for quite some time (back to OS X 10.2, or maybe before), and is pretty snazzy. Why Apple doesn't make a bigger deal out of it is a complete mystery to me.
It's not viable, nor even remotely necessary, to manage Macs on this sort of scale with ARD.
[doublepost=1477074110][/doublepost]
I'm sceptical. I work in an environment with around 50 PC's and about 5 Macs. I certainly haven't spent less time supporting the Macs than i have PC's considering the ratio
Do you have any sort of management tools in place for those Macs?
 
I kind of find this hard to believe. Especially because they are only talking about a 4 year lifespan. If I buy an HP or Acer Windows laptop for $999, its a great machine, PCIe SSD and all. Then I can buy a $1999 MacBook Pro. Great machine as well. Then after initial installation of productivity software, firefox web browser (because face it, safari and edge both suck donkey balls). Maybe some video editing software, adobe acrobat, adobe photoshop. What else is there to do over a period of four years other than use each machine. I dont see how the Mac saves any money, especially because mac software is more expensive than Win software too.
 
Using MDM and Profiles, I can setup your computer just based on your user ID. I do not have do any imaging, I just start with factory O/S and run the standard macOS setup.

Even on the small scale, the biggest time savings with deploying Macs is that you don't need to wipe out and *replace* the manufacturer's OS install to get rid of a bunch of unnecessary crap that they put on their machines. The newer management tools *add* to that, making things even easier.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak
You can argue all you want, but IBM has the data. Not only that IBM is buying PCs and software at a price that you can't get unless you're an enterprise customer. Aggregated across their user base the results are significant. They actually are tracking all this information, you most likely are not.
 
One of the big factors is that they have also lost some of they deals they were getting on PCs to start with. Over time the Lenovo discounts have got less and less thus they don't get the huge discounts they were getting with PCs when they owned the Lenovo brand.

The deployment mechanism is fairly good. Get laptop - go to URL, log in and download setup app and away it goes and sets everything up - VPN, Wifi, backups etc etc.
 
And that is because most Apple hardware is more useful for a much longer period than for PCs... making the need for Apple to release a new model every 47 seconds pointless.

Realistically speaking, the only really different and performant part of your computer these days is the graphics card. CPU improvements have been marginal for the last few years; same performance, less power. Let's face it, when your computer is waiting for you to type it doesn't matter how fast it is.

A higher-performance graphics card is nice, but for business apps it doesn't really matter. My MBP 2013 drives 4k at an acceptable level, and will drive multiple 1080p monitors (the sort of corporate standard) just fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak
And that is because most Apple hardware is more useful for a much longer period than for PCs... making the need for Apple to release a new model every 47 seconds pointless.
That depends on what PC you buy.
My company issues both PC laptops and Mac laptops.
Users are issued these for a 3 year period before they are refreshed.
The ThinkPads we use last just as long, if not longer than the Macbook Pros.
We dropped Dell as an option because those were barely lasting a year.
 
This used to be true, but not so much anymore. Now a days, I get more calls from my friends with macs than PCs.

PLEASE READ: THIS IS MY OPINION. KEEP YOUR TROLLING AND FLAMING TO YOURSELF. MY OPINION DOES NOT REFLECT THAT OF TIM COOK, THE APPLE CULT, THE DIE HARD APPLE FANS, ANDROID FANS, OR TAYLOR SWIFT.

The primary issue is that there are various "factors" to cost of ownership... There is the cost of the hardware, there is cost of software, there is cost of user training, there is cost of resolving issues that are "user issues", there is reliability of hardware (and software) and so on.

Every home user is different, and a particular home user could buy a "lemon" mac which constantly has problems... which will translate to Macs being more expensive.

Similarly, an unexperienced Mac user who has only used PC's may be lured into buying Anti-Malware software for their Mac, thus adding up the price, when in fact they usually won't need to.

Lastly, an unexperienced Mac user may consult professional assistance to help them solve problems because they've messed things up while they attempt to learn their way round a new system.

In any case, the point being is that a typical home user isn't really qualified to make such statements in an authoritative manner because the margin of error in such a low sample would make such a statement wholly statistically meaningless. While it may be valid that *you* have found Macs to be more expensive overall, there will almost certainly be others who find the opposite to be true.

IBM have many thousands of users, many thousands of machines, have budgets that they can measure against etc... Their statement will absolutely be true for users in a corporate environment because the numbers they are talking about will even out any issues across the whole group.
[doublepost=1477080767][/doublepost]
That depends on what PC you buy.
My company issues both PC laptops and Mac laptops.
Users are issued these for a 3 year period before they are refreshed.
The ThinkPads we use last just as long, if not longer than the Macbook Pros.
We dropped Dell as an option because those were barely lasting a year.

Absolutely... And this is why all of these "total cost" type articles should be taken with caution. The facts may well bear our in IBMs case, and it can be reasonably assumed that companies that are similar might get the same results.

But not every company operates in the same way that IBM does so other companies will find they get different results.

The point to remember is that there are many smaller businesses that say only have maybe 5-10 Macs in a sea of PC's... In those cases, then Macs are likely to cost more than PCs as there will be a "ramping up" cost to train IT staff on the relatively few Macs, and costs of software like Casper Suite etc won't scale well for such a small number of Macs.

But clearly, the evidence is there that on a larger scale, then Macs may well for many enterprises be more cost effective than PCs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak
we needed IBM after 30 years to tell us Mac are cheaper over the long term then PC ?

and they are saying this just when it's no longer true and when Apple hasn't released a new mac in 4 years

an Intel Skull Canyon is 100 times better then a mac mini of the same price

Apple will be bankrupt and sold very soon
 
Last edited:
For those interested, the video is here:

Ah ok - I see what IBM have done here:

1/ Changed the entire support model. Hired Apple experts and set up a dedicated help desk.
2/ Allow users full admin rights via a local account. No Active Directory connectivity
3/ Make users use Lotus Notes and Sametime (required a seperate Notes user name and password - no Single sign on)
4/ Limit the number of apps they can use. No VISIO or Project (for example). Solution is Citrix or local virtualisation product. They say majority of apps work. Be interesting to see what the apps are.
5/ Ship default image but configure at the users desktop. This takes a long time.

Essentially, they have redone the entire client compute model to use a totally different model, some would argue - compromise security, by providing local admin access in the pursuit of simplification and hire an 'expert' helpdesk dedicated to Macs, staffed by Mac advocates.

If they did the same for a Windows 7/10 PC - would the experience be any different?
 
The first four comments completely missed the point
you missed my point: it was a joke on the headline.
[doublepost=1477084685][/doublepost]
Actually it's because the Mac is cheaper to deploy and support but nice zing... what will you be complaining about after the 27th? I'm sure you'll find something.
thanks for replying to my joke.
[doublepost=1477084724][/doublepost]
No. Its because they are well built. My wife's 2010 MBP is still kicking ass while I've gone through 3 Dells in the same span. and my wife does not baby her MBP.

it was a joke...
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.