Resolved iBook G4 shutting down while booting

Knix6593

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Nov 10, 2018
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Hello all :) first post here so sorry if I'm doing something wrong

I bought a seemingly dead iBook G4 for 12$ yesterday.it doesn't look half bad on the outside and no damage to the screen.after opening the keyboard up it seems to be a 1.33ghz mid 2005 12in G4.

now I plugged in my charger hoping nothing blows up, and to my surprise it chimes and displays the apple logo, no gpu issues to be seen. now I was pretty happy for that, until it decided to shut down while booting. I tried booting to the os 3 times, same results. before shutting down the spinning circle froze for half a second

Any ideas whats happening to this poor machine?
 
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DeltaMac

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Shutting down during boot can be a dead hard drive (Tests the hard drive when first powered on. If the drive is not responding, the hardware tries two more times, failure then shuts the system off)

You could try removing any RAM that is installed (your 2005 iBook has 512MB built-in, with one slot that may or may not have a chip installed)

The iBook G4 is a messy beast to replace a hard drive. There's 50 tiny screws to remove to get at the hard drive, quite a job (I have counted those screws - when I was working at an Apple service shop :D )
And, now there's the challenge of actually finding a replacement IDE hard drive. Some users go for an adapter to use an SSD internally. You would have to search for that, not something that I have done myself.
 
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Knix6593

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Nov 10, 2018
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Shutting down during boot can be a dead hard drive (Tests the hard drive when first powered on. If the drive is not responding, the hardware tries two more times, failure then shuts the system off)

You could try removing any RAM that is installed (your 2005 iBook has 512MB built-in, with one slot that may or may not have a chip installed)

The iBook G4 is a messy beast to replace a hard drive. There's 50 tiny screws to remove to get at the hard drive, quite a job (I have counted those screws - when I was working at an Apple service shop :D )
And, now there's the challenge of actually finding a replacement IDE hard drive. Some users go for an adapter to use an SSD internally. You would have to search for that, not something that I have done myself.
I have removed the 256mb ram under the keyboard, same result, also tried with a 512mb from my 12in pb g4. Still same result. Should i try boot to single user mode and test the hard drive from there?
 

DeltaMac

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Single user mode is worth a try, for sure.

If THAT seems to work, and the hard drive appears to pass that test, then you might get a hardware test disk.
You can download a disk image for that from here
Scroll to the iBook images. Your 2005 uses the version 2.5. Download the DMG, and burn to a CDR.
(A dead hard drive might even interfere with booting to ANYTHING, but it's a nice idea to be able to have a test CD, anyway.)
 

Knix6593

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Original poster
Nov 10, 2018
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Single user mode is worth a try, for sure.

If THAT seems to work, and the hard drive appears to pass that test, then you might get a hardware test disk.
You can download a disk image for that from here
Scroll to the iBook images. Your 2005 uses the version 2.5. Download the DMG, and burn to a CDR.
(A dead hard drive might even interfere with booting to ANYTHING, but it's a nice idea to be able to have a test CD, anyway.)
heres what I got running fsck -fy

EDIT: Added image when booting via single user mode, after that it halts the cpu then shuts down
 

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AphoticD

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The machine powering off while booting could also be a thermal issue - it could be getting too hot for safe operation so the PMU shuts the system off.

I would recommend to follow the guides on ifixit.com to dismantle the iBook and replace the thermal pads. If I can recall correctly, this model comes fitted with thermal pads only.

My 12" 1.33GHz model is maxed out for RAM and an SSD upgrade, so it performs pretty well and it was a while ago, but I believe I used thermal paste on the CPU instead of using a pad and used fresh pads on the GPU and the system IC, but I'd have to check to be sure.

It's one of the nicest little PowerPCs you can get, so well done :)
 
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Knix6593

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Have you tried booting off the optical drive - an OSX install disk or Lubuntu live disk?
If that worked it would partially indicate a dead HDD.
The optical drive is functioning but cant read dvds , just scratches it
[doublepost=1541953258][/doublepost]
The machine powering off while booting could also be a thermal issue - it could be getting too hot for safe operation so the PMU shuts the system off.

I would recommend to follow the guides on ifixit.com to dismantle the iBook and replace the thermal pads. If I can recall correctly, this model comes fitted with thermal pads only.

My 12" 1.33GHz model is maxed out for RAM and an SSD upgrade, so it performs pretty well and it was a while ago, but I believe I used thermal paste on the CPU instead of using a pad and used fresh pads on the GPU and the system IC, but I'd have to check to be sure.

It's one of the nicest little PowerPCs you can get, so well done :)
Yeah i wasn't expecting a top of the line ibook but nice find anyway.

Regarding thermals, the machine wasnt hot to begin with and the fan is working, but the battery was almost burning my hands when it finished charging.

And looking at the ifixit guide, getting inside seems to be a nightmare(even worse than my 12in PB G4 that i have to board swap). Well gotta get prepared
 
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weckart

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Nov 7, 2004
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The optical drive is functioning but cant read dvds , just scratches it
[doublepost=1541953258][/doublepost]
Yeah i wasn't expecting a top of the line ibook but nice find anyway.

Regarding thermals, the machine wasnt hot to begin with and the fan is working, but the battery was almost burning my hands when it finished charging.

And looking at the ifixit guide, getting inside seems to be a nightmare(even worse than my 12in PB G4 that i have to board swap). Well gotta get prepared
I did both the 12" PB and your iBook. I would take the iBook over the PB any day.
 
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AphoticD

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Regarding thermals, the machine wasnt hot to begin with and the fan is working, but the battery was almost burning my hands when it finished charging.
Sometimes when the CPU thermal compound or pad is shot, you wouldn’t even know the CPU is overheating because there won’t be much external heat - the heat being trapped at the CPU die and not dissipating via the heatsink.

As others have mentioned, the I/O error is definitely a failing hard drive. But I haven’t seen this error cause the Mac to shut off, it will just fail to get anywhere.
 

Knix6593

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Sometimes when the CPU thermal compound or pad is shot, you wouldn’t even know the CPU is overheating because there won’t be much external heat - the heat being trapped at the CPU die and not dissipating via the heatsink.

As others have mentioned, the I/O error is definitely a failing hard drive. But I haven’t seen this error cause the Mac to shut off, it will just fail to get anywhere.
Okay, i will buy some thermal paste and clean the machine. Thanks for the suggestion
 
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AphoticD

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Okay, i will buy some thermal paste and clean the machine. Thanks for the suggestion
Grab some 1mm thermal pads too. You won’t need much. A 100x50mm sheet would set you back a dollar or two.

It’s worth a shot. The worst case being it doesn’t improve anything and you’re back at the start. if that is the case, PowerBookMedic.com should still have logic boards for this model at a reasonable price. I bought one last year for $18 plus shipping.
 

XaPHER

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Grab some 1mm thermal pads too. You won’t need much. A 100x50mm sheet would set you back a dollar or two.

It’s worth a shot. The worst case being it doesn’t improve anything and you’re back at the start. if that is the case, PowerBookMedic.com should still have logic boards for this model at a reasonable price. I bought one last year for $18 plus shipping.
I think it's worth trying to stay in open firmware to see if it eventually shuts down before a teardown for heat issues. Though, okay, it seems it's going the teardown direction anyway. It's just that in the boot process the board hardly produces heat, that I think even a poor thermal junction should do. Personally I won't bother with re-opening mine until it dies, probably.
 
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AphoticD

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I think it's worth trying to stay in open firmware to see if it eventually shuts down before a teardown for heat issues. Though, okay, it seems it's going the teardown direction anyway. It's just that in the boot process the board hardly produces heat, that I think even a poor thermal junction should do. Personally I won't bother with re-opening mine until it dies, probably.
Good idea. To the OP; Drop into Open Firmware by holding cmd-opt-O-F at startup and leave it running a while to see if it reports any warnings or switches off.

I've witnessed many of my Macs producing heat and have the fans come on while sitting in Open Firmware and even in Target Disk Mode. I guess the power management doesn't [fully] kick in until during boot time, so CPU voltage runs at full draw.

I've worked on many of these little iBooks and they are definitely cumbersome to get into. There are a several layers and some 50 or more screws to remove to replace the logic board and/or renew the thermals. It'll take at least an hour to get the job done! :)
 
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XaPHER

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Good idea. To the OP; Drop into Open Firmware by holding cmd-opt-O-F at startup and leave it running a while to see if it reports any warnings or switches off.

I've witnessed many of my Macs producing heat and have the fans come on while sitting in Open Firmware and even in Target Disk Mode. I guess the power management doesn't [fully] kick in until during boot time, so CPU voltage runs at full draw.

I've worked on many of these little iBooks and they are definitely cumbersome to get into. There are a several layers and some 50 or more screws to remove to replace the logic board and/or renew the thermals. It'll take at least an hour to get the job done! :)
Not the iBook's case :(.. It goes "reducing system power....." but I believe it should shutdown in OF still if it even goes down from overheating while booting OS X.

Personnally I prefer the iBook's look over G4 powerbooks. Aluminium is not a good match for me. I have yet to find a Tibook and they can be somewhat fragile. (the iBook) would be the perfect laptop if the cooling system wasn't so frustrating, and possibly if the firewire port was more usable (mine's hang/freezes both machine in target mode, same for ip over firewire, and intensive usage of a firewire storage often hangs the system, 90% of my good cables hang the system) though that probably doesn't happen with every single board. For what I paid and the way I use it it's pretty much okay with me.
 

Knix6593

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Nov 10, 2018
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Good idea. To the OP; Drop into Open Firmware by holding cmd-opt-O-F at startup and leave it running a while to see if it reports any warnings or switches off.

I've witnessed many of my Macs producing heat and have the fans come on while sitting in Open Firmware and even in Target Disk Mode. I guess the power management doesn't [fully] kick in until during boot time, so CPU voltage runs at full draw.

I've worked on many of these little iBooks and they are definitely cumbersome to get into. There are a several layers and some 50 or more screws to remove to replace the logic board and/or renew the thermals. It'll take at least an hour to get the job done! :)
Ive been on open firmware for 10 mins now, no shutting down to be seen. so i dont think the machine is overheating, better be safe than sorry though
 
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Knix6593

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UPDATE: I Will Be Getting a FW400 cable from my aunt soon to see if the iBook will boot with the HDD inside my PB G4 in Target Disk Mode. And i might see if the files inside are rescuable or not. In the meantime enjoy pics of my 12inch notebooks ;)



 
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havokalien

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Apr 27, 2006
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turn off or remove the airport. iBook g4's and airport are known issues for kernel panic and random shut offs. i have 2, i turned off airport and now they work flawlessly for years, minus wireless. but you can always get a usb dongle.

no i did not read the whole post so if this was already covered i apologize.
 
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Knix6593

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Nov 10, 2018
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turn off or remove the airport. iBook g4's and airport are known issues for kernel panic and random shut offs. i have 2, i turned off airport and now they work flawlessly for years, minus wireless. but you can always get a usb dongle.

no i did not read the whole post so if this was already covered i apologize.
No issues with airport, verbose mode didnt really report anything beside i/o errors and bus errors. I also tried to run the g4 in target disk mode and plug it into my G5, no luck with booting (no spinning wheel)
[doublepost=1542434537][/doublepost]And if it is the airport card, how do i turn it off via sinhle user mode?
 

havokalien

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Apr 27, 2006
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not sure, when my units started getting iffy years ago, i got in and disabled it. Did you try starting in safe mode? Should be able to turn it off that way.

mine never showed anything in logs but kernel panic then off, mostly. But it was very erratic.
 

Knix6593

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Nov 10, 2018
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not sure, when my units started getting iffy years ago, i got in and disabled it. Did you try starting in safe mode? Should be able to turn it off that way.

mine never showed anything in logs but kernel panic then off, mostly. But it was very erratic.
Safe mode wont boot, just freezes at the apple logo. In the meantime i will crack the machine open and put a new 60gb fujitsu drive then install osx leopard
 
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