iBook Radeon 9550 and CoreImage

finalcoolman

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 15, 2005
254
0
So, with lots of conflicting evidence and no definative answers, what is everyone take on if Core Image is supported by the new iBooks' ATI Radeon 9550? I sure as hell want it to be but at the same time I'm not too sure. Also we don't really have Apple stores in Canada so I can't just go to a store and test it because the resellers over here take at least two weeks to get new models in. So, if anyone who is lucky enough to have an Apple Store nearby please test it out with the ripple effect to see if it does indeed support core image. Thanks,

P.S. As you can see I was right about everything I stated, new iBooks today guaranteed with built in Bluetooth and a 3-5 business day ship time :p
 

MalcolmR

macrumors newbie
Jun 30, 2005
21
0
London, UK
finalcoolman said:
So, with lots of conflicting evidence and no definative answers, what is everyone take on if Core Image is supported by the new iBooks' ATI Radeon 9550?
Well, of course, it is supported, but I guess you meant whether Core Image will use the GPU or not. I think it will - someone pointed to an ATI page earlier as evidence that the 9550 was ARB-capable (which Apple's TechNote indicates is the key to Core Image-on-GPU).

Whether that means that you get that all-important ripple effect in Dashboard, I've no idea. It all depends on what criteria Apple used to switch it on or off: Core Image execution location, or laptop model (or something else).

(In theory, it might only be switched on if you've actually got a PowerBook, for example. Time will tell).
 

Gmac07

macrumors member
Jul 13, 2005
65
0
im sorry but im still new to macs, what exactly is so important about core image and "the ripple effect"???
 

ITASOR

macrumors 601
Mar 20, 2005
4,400
3
Gmac07 said:
im sorry but im still new to macs, what exactly is so important about core image and "the ripple effect"???
I'll let someone else answer the importance part. But I think the dashboard ripple is a gimick, unnecessary, and stupid.
 

witness

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2005
435
0
Austria
Gmac07 said:
im sorry but im still new to macs, what exactly is so important about core image and "the ripple effect"???
The basic advantage is that processing of cool effects (like animated ripples) is offloaded from the processor to the graphics card, leaving the processor free to do other things, and therefore giving you a faster Mac that looks even better.
 

MalcolmR

macrumors newbie
Jun 30, 2005
21
0
London, UK
Gmac07 said:
im sorry but im still new to macs, what exactly is so important about core image and "the ripple effect"???
Core Image is an important part of the Mac OS X platform that allows applications to produce on-screen effects using programmable video cards. It's important because it provides an abstraction that means you don't have to worry about the lower-level graphics-card API, and so it opens up a lot of the functionality to application writers.

One obvious use of Core Image is in the Dashboard, where new widgets dropped (or moved) on the Dashboard cause a 'ripple' effect to appear (visible in the WWDC keynote, or the Dashboard movie on Apple's site).

Core Image is supported on all modern hardware, but on some machines, the CPU is actually more powerful than the graphics processor. On those machines, the effects are handles by the onboard CPU. Just to confuse everyone, the highly-visible Dashboard 'ripple' effect is switched off on such machines, leading to the (incorrect) belief that Core Image 'isn't supported', whereas it's really just the Dashboard ripple that's not supported.

The new iBooks appear to have an ARB-compliant graphics card, which means that they will now run Core Image transformations on the GPU, offloading the work from the CPU. It remains to be seen whether the new iBooks will also support the Dashboard ripple...
 

TaKashMoney

macrumors 6502
Jul 15, 2005
298
0
I honestly dont know if the ripple will be present or not. The graphics card apparently supports the technology (As posted on ATI's website) yet ThinkSecret claims it does not. I've called two apple stores in my area. They dont have the new iBooks yet and they have no idea what Core Image is. Thanks a ton apple retail.....
 

Heb1228

macrumors 68020
Feb 3, 2004
2,217
0
Virginia Beach, VA
ITASOR said:
I'll let someone else answer the importance part. But I think the dashboard ripple is a gimick, unnecessary, and stupid.
That argument can be made against a wide array of OS X's attractive effects and garphics. But these things are one of the (many) reasons I really enjoy using OS X. Like I've said before, if I wanted an ugly screen I'd use Windows.

I'm personally glad Apple's programmers included it instead of just dropping a Widget and nothing happens. Its the little things.... :D
 

ITASOR

macrumors 601
Mar 20, 2005
4,400
3
Heb1228 said:
That argument can be made against a wide array of OS X's attractive effects and garphics. But these things are one of the (many) reasons I really enjoy using OS X. Like I've said before, if I wanted an ugly screen I'd use Windows.

I'm personally glad Apple's programmers included it instead of just dropping a Widget and nothing happens. Its the little things.... :D
I love OS X's effects. Love 'em. But they make a big deal of this ripple which you hardly ever even see. How often do you drag a widget out? I did it the first week I got Tiger and now I just use those widgets...
 

Heb1228

macrumors 68020
Feb 3, 2004
2,217
0
Virginia Beach, VA
ITASOR said:
I love OS X's effects. Love 'em. But they make a big deal of this ripple which you hardly ever even see. How often do you drag a widget out? I did it the first week I got Tiger and now I just use those widgets...
Point taken, it doesn't happen that often. :D Its really good for showing off to friends though
 

ITASOR

macrumors 601
Mar 20, 2005
4,400
3
Heb1228 said:
Point taken, it doesn't happen that often. :D Its really good for showing off to friends though
Yeah, it's great for showing off to PC users!
 

lpshean

macrumors regular
May 30, 2005
129
0
Yeah, can someone go down to the Apple store and fiddle with the new iBooks and see whether or not the "ripple-effect" is supported. That'll determine whether the iBooks are indeed Core Image capable or not.
 

TaKashMoney

macrumors 6502
Jul 15, 2005
298
0
As I have also posted in another forum, The powerbook graphics page doesnt discuss core image either. ATI says it should support the ripple while thinksecret blatantly claims 32gb is not enough. I have heard that # of GB is not the real determinin factor but I'm not sure if anyone is positive. I have called both Apple stores in the ATlanta area. Neither of them had the new iBooks and neither knew what COre Image was let alone if it was supported or if the ripple would be present. Unfortunately, this question is still very much in the air....I sure can pray though. While pointless I do love my eye candy....
 

dcv

macrumors G3
May 24, 2005
8,021
1
MalcolmR said:
Core Image is supported on all modern hardware, but on some machines, the CPU is actually more powerful than the graphics processor. On those machines, the effects are handles by the onboard CPU. Just to confuse everyone, the highly-visible Dashboard 'ripple' effect is switched off on such machines, leading to the (incorrect) belief that Core Image 'isn't supported', whereas it's really just the Dashboard ripple that's not supported.

The new iBooks appear to have an ARB-compliant graphics card, which means that they will now run Core Image transformations on the GPU, offloading the work from the CPU. It remains to be seen whether the new iBooks will also support the Dashboard ripple...
Actually, according to System Profiler, CoreImage is *not* supported on all hardware. e.g. the iBook models that were available before today's update. I am assuming that today's updated iBooks do support CoreImage.
 

wwooden

macrumors 68000
Jul 26, 2004
1,993
135
Burlington, VT
TaKashMoney said:
As I have also posted in another forum, The powerbook graphics page doesnt discuss core image either. ATI says it should support the ripple while thinksecret blatantly claims 32gb is not enough. I have heard that # of GB is not the real determinin factor but I'm not sure if anyone is positive. I have called both Apple stores in the ATlanta area. Neither of them had the new iBooks and neither knew what COre Image was let alone if it was supported or if the ripple would be present. Unfortunately, this question is still very much in the air....I sure can pray though. While pointless I do love my eye candy....
It's not dependent on the # of mb's of RAM you have. My 1GHz 12" PB has the ripple effect, and it only has 32mb of RAM.
 

finalcoolman

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 15, 2005
254
0
wwooden said:
It's not dependent on the # of mb's of RAM you have. My 1GHz 12" PB has the ripple effect, and it only has 32mb of RAM.
Really? Cool. What model graphics card does it have?
 

SpaceMagic

macrumors 68000
Oct 26, 2003
1,740
0
Cardiff, Wales
My friend's 12" PowerBook 32mb VRAM Nivida 5200 supports core image.

The new mini's still dont :(

The new iBooks, i think, will... Otherwise why change them? As the ram has stayed the same.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors G5
May 7, 2004
13,521
2,557
Sod off
IIRC the 9550 (on the PC side anyway) is a de-clocked Radeon 9600-family GPU with a 128bit bus. If that's the case it should have all the functionality of a Radeon 9600 Pro (except with decreased performance), including full Core Image compatibility. That's my guess anyway.

Some Cube users have installed flashed PC Radeon 9550s, so Cube-related forums might have already discussed this issue.

BTW, as somebody else mentioned, the amount of VRAM a video card has means nothing as far as Core image compatibility goes. A GeForce3 with 128MB of RAM is not Core Image compatible, for example.
 

Jonnie

macrumors newbie
Aug 13, 2004
17
0
"IIRC the 9550 (on the PC side anyway) is a de-clocked Radeon 9600-family GPU"

Thats correct. So it should support programable shaders like the 9600. And that's required for core image.

Shame they didn't just drop a mobile 9600 64 ram in the ibook.
 

MUCKYFINGERS

macrumors 6502a
Jun 7, 2005
768
15
CA
taken from Apple.com:

When a programmable GPU is present, Core Image utilizes the graphics card for image processing operations, freeing the CPU for other tasks. And if you have a high-performance card with increased video memory (VRAM), you'll find real-time responsiveness across a wide variety of operations.

Core Image-capable graphics cards include:

* ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
* ATI Radeon 9600, 9600 XT, 9650, 9800 XT, X800 XT
* nVidia GeForce FX Go 5200
* nVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
* nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL, 6800 GT DDL
---

Looks like it doesn't support it, folks.