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iBox?

Re: Brilliant!!

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
I'm dying for one of these. I've got a fully loaded beige G3 and if the processor or motherboard goes, I'd love to just take my drives, pci cards, CDRW, whatever and put it in with a newer processor. $650 is a LOT cheaper than $1500...
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...which is why Apple will probably mire this guy in legal red-tape.

I'd be very surprised if Apple's patents on their G4 motherboards don't make it illegal to use them in non-Apple machines without their concent. (I asume that the company that sells rack mounted Mac's worked something out with Apple since they came out long before the XServe.)
 
Originally posted by runningman
It would be nice to give apple a little competition. They have a strangle hold on their devices that inhibits competition. With competition comes innovation. Look at the PC market. It's a prime example of how competition can drive prices down and still have innovations. Good for him
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This would be NO competition for Apple. How many spare motherboards can he get his hands on? A few hundred, maybe? Certainly not enough to meet the kind of demand that would have any impact on Apple's bottom line.

...But I think Apple will pull the plug on this before we ever see the first iBox.
 
RTFA...

MikeH: All of your "questions" were answered in the article:

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,58310,00.html

A Minnesota man has plans to launch his own Macintosh-manufacturing business, building a low-cost, upgradeable Mac called the iBox.

John Fraser, a 21-year-old engineer from Chanhassen, Minnesota, is finalizing the design for his flat "pizzabox" Mac and hopes to go into production in three to four months. If successful, Fraser will be the first third party to make a Mac since Apple shut down its three-year experiment in clone licensing in 1997.

Unlike the world of Windows PCs, which has many hardware makers, Apple is the only company making Macs. Apple doesn't license its operating system to outside hardware manufacturers.

Fraser hopes to sidestep the licensing issues by using older, off-the-shelf parts made by Apple and sold to computer repair outfits as spare parts. He will use Apple-made motherboards preloaded with Macintosh ROMs -- the vital piece of hardware-cum-software that makes a Mac a Mac. Customers will supply their own Mac operating system.

However, Fraser may still face legal problems with patents and trademarks, legal experts said. Apple is notoriously protective of its intellectual property, and has not hesitated to go after hardware manufacturers, software publishers and websites for infringement.

Fraser hasn't yet contacted Apple, and the company didn't respond to requests for comment.

"I always wanted to build Macs," said Fraser, who runs a part-time PC customization business, 2khappyware. "But I want to get Apple's full support. I want to make sure I'm on the up and up. I'm an Apple supporter. It's not something I want to clash with them about. I want to make sure what I'm doing is legal."

Fraser's iBox will be a low-cost, upgradeable machine. It will offer everything Mac customers expect: FireWire and USB ports, Airport connectivity, Gigabit Ethernet and so on -- for about a third of the price of comparable Apple machines.

Fraser plans to offer both bare-bones and complete systems.

For $250 to $350, the bare-bones iBox will feature a case, motherboard and power supply. Customers will add their own processor, memory, hard drive and operating system.

Fraser will build full-featured configurations to customers' specifications. A fully loaded iBox will cost between $650 and $2,000, depending on the speed of the chip, the size of the hard drive and other features. He plans to offer configurations with dual processors, just as Apple does in its current line of PowerMacs.

Fraser will base the iBox on so-called "Gigabit" motherboards built by Apple as spare parts for previous generations of G4 PowerMacs. As well as Gigabit Ethernet, the boards have a daughter-card slot for the CPU, which can accommodate a range of G4 chips, including those yet to be released. The iBox includes open slots for extra memory, two PCI cards and an AGP video card.

Fraser said a clear demand exists for a low-cost Mac that customers can outfit themselves with cheap, off-the-shelf parts or parts taken from older machines.

Now, Apple customers must decide between Apple's entry-level iMac or eMac, neither of which can be significantly upgraded, or spend more money for a pro-level Power Mac.

Fraser is in the final stages of iBox production. The missing piece is finding a manufacturer for the machine's distinctive case, which was designed by Mario Micheli, a designer from Milwaukee. Fraser said he is meeting with companies that mold plastic next week to discuss putting it into production.
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page 2

Fraser has already struck a deal to buy parts from Other World Computing, a Mac parts and peripherals supplier. OWC said it may sell Fraser's systems through its website.

"I think it has great promise," said Larry O'Connor, OWC's founder and CEO. "Mac users like unique and interesting things, and this has definitely got people's attention. There's definitely interest in what he's doing."

Fraser isn't new to building PCs. He earned his living with his 2khappyware customization business for a few years before he had a child and sidelined the business to a hobby.

And Fraser said he doesn't have any grand plans for building the iBox business into the next Dell or Gateway. "I'm not doing it for profit," he said. "I'm doing it for a hobby."

The project has already generated considerable buzz on a number of online forums. In fact, it was encouragement from members of the dealmac forums that persuaded Fraser there was demand for the iBox.

But intellectual property lawyer Mark Dickson said Fraser has to be very careful not to infringe Apple's trademarks, trade dress or patent portfolio.

Dickson, a partner at the Menlo Park, California, office of Arnold White & Durkee, said Apple could challenge Fraser if his machine's look, name or marketing confuses customers into thinking it's an Apple product.

Dickson also cautioned Fraser to be careful not to infringe any patents. Even if Fraser uses Apple parts, Dickson said the company may hold patents governing how they are put together. The patents may not even be held by Apple, but by another PC manufacturer, Dickson said.

Dickson said he had no knowledge of Apple's patent portfolio, but strongly cautioned Fraser to consult an intellectual property lawyer before proceeding.

"I think he would be wise to talk to a patent attorney before he does anything else," Dickson said.
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Re: No net gain

Originally posted by bikertwin
If he does succeed (and I don't think he will due to intellectual property), then all it will mean is that Apple hardware prices will come down and software (OS, iLife, etc.) prices will go up. Apple has to make profits somewhere.

Net gain: zero.

And of course Apple won't support you if you have any OS or application problems.

And the whole idea is silly. Who would want to buy a BMW-compatible car frame so that you could stick in a BMW engine and some cheap, leftover seats from your last car? :D
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I agree and disagree. Unfortunately there are people out there who pirate software, so getting the Macs cheaper would benefit them more.

In response to other posts, I totally agree that this is a mistake in form factor now that LCD screens are more common, unless this thing fits under the feet of an Apple Display? Anyone?
 
I don't quite get it.

If you take a bunch of outdated parts and put them together, do you not have an outdated computer?

If you want an updated processor but want to keep all of your other hardware (hard drive, ram, graphics card, ect) get a processor upgrade.
 
i think its pretty cool. it would be nice for alot of people who have switched to the mac, especially techies, to get their hands on a cheap box like this. the linux implications are infinite. it would be a great cheap small server to just sit around to be toyed with. people need to realize its not a massmarket thing. its just one of those toys for techies. i think the creator has a pretty good handle on that too. i'd love to see it hit the market.
 
Apple Legal will probably fry him but its a cool idea!

I was waiting for something like this from Apple for years now. I want a living-room multimedia comp. The PowerMac is too big and too loud for the job, the iMac has a screen attached to it, so both are out of the question. This thing however is PERFECT. So if Apple really is going to fry his ass hopefully they at least buy him out for the design and market something similar themselves.
Cheers,

Ahmed
 
Its exactly what I need for my hosue next year. I want to rum my kdx server on a dedicated old mac running os x. But old macs are far too expensive for what they are, yes this will be an old mac too but it still looks like it will be far better value.
 
Maybe if there's enough interest ...

... Apple will take the hint and start peddling their own version of the iBox. The lack of that product is what's really inspiring this stripped-down neoclone.
 
Re: Maybe if there's enough interest ...

Originally posted by QuiteSure
... Apple will take the hint and start peddling their own version of the iBox. The lack of that product is what's really inspiring this stripped-down neoclone.
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I agree. Just think take an eMac cut the monitor off the top and sell it for $600 or less. I think I would buy one just as a second compuer. I would love to stick it in my home entertainment system and use it as a music/video server.
 
Originally posted by runningman
It would be nice to give apple a little competition. They have a strangle hold on their devices that inhibits competition. With competition comes innovation. Look at the PC market. It's a prime example of how competition can drive prices down and still have innovations. Good for him
Click to expand...

I hardly call the plethora of portable space heaters a market of innovations.

Look at the instability.

You really must be a PC user.
 
Apple needs a midrange again. They had it with the Cube but for the price it wasn't upgradable enough. The price of the eMac should be dropped about $200. Then you have the iMac which is the all in one with all the power or you could get the same priced mini-desktop with one PCI and one AGP and no monitor. Apple needs to understand that I don't particularly need 4 PCI's nor do I need that clunky tower with the handle.

I think it's a good idea and seeing that he'll be using outdated Apple mobos, he mightdo alright for himself. This will never be a huge market though and there will be the chance that Apple buys him out and repackages this thing (which would be great).
 
Think of this

A lot of people have been crying for Apple to do something like this. They haven't. They could very well put a legal crunch on him, or they could let him do the marketing test to see if people like the idea, then buy him out.

On the flip side, if they were to shut him down, they would probably hire the guy. I mean, from what he's doing he's obviously an Apple type employee.

Ever hear of security people hacking into networks (white hat), then letting the person in charge of the network know that they did it so that they can get a job working security there? It happens. And i'm sure no matter if this machine gets to market or not, that's one smart dude there.

I say, "go, dog, go!" :cool:
 
Dropping prices on the eMac is not the answer...

... to this. It still has the annoying screen. I dun need a screen. All I want is a barebone Mac like the Shuttle is for the PC. It would be the ideal living-room comp. Cutting the Screen off the eMac and just selling that would be a great idea though.
Cheers,

Ahmed
 
Here's hoping...

I really hope this comes to pass. For the past few years I have stuck with my "desktop pizza box" Beige G3 configuration, simply because I don't have room for an extra tower. If something flat can be made, then I'm all for it, as long as it has some degree of expandability (i.e. PCI, AGP, etc.)

Knowing how Apple is, I hope they think twice before shooting this guy's hopes and dreams down with their legal crap.

At least make the G5 platform in tower/desktop configurations if you don't side with the iBox!!!!
 
Prices

He must be getting a good deal on those MB's and power supplies. It is telling that the Wired article and/or his web site say that he is in this as a hobby and, "not to make a profit", because at those prices he probably won't.

Before I got my current G4, I was seriously considerring putting together my own from used or refurbished parts and slapping an OWC G4 upgrade in it. Every time I added it all up, though, it came within a couple hundred dollars of a better, used machine on eBay.

For example (aprox eBay completed item prices unless otherwise noted):
  • G4 Gigabit MB, $140
  • Mac AGP Rage 128 Video Card, $30
  • 24 Pin PowerSupply, $50
  • G4 Case, $150
  • 40GB Hard Drive, $45
  • Apple DVD-ROM Drive, $20
  • G4 800 from OWC, $300
  • 256MB PC100 RAM from OWC, $40

Total (not including shipping): $775
Take $100 off if you go with a cheap PC case, but you will still need to come up with the power button/speaker circuit board and probably need to do work on the case to get it to fit correctly.

Now check eBay for completed auctions on used PowerMac G4's, here's a couple better machines within a $125 bucks of that:
My DP G4 500 (debatably better) with DVD-RAM, 256MB RAM, 40GB and an AGP Rage 128 was $700 on clearance at CompUSA a couple weeks ago including the manditory 3 year CompUSA Platinum waranty.

How much cheaper do you think this guy's materials will be? What do you think the cases will end up costing to produce?

Don't get me wrong, I think what he is doing is very cool, but I just don't think it'll make it very far out of his garage before crashing and burning due to costs or legal woes.
 
This is the creator.

Hello everyone. Man oh man how news travels.

For your information I am already using Mac motherboards and other companies (for server use) are already doing this same thing.

The other thing people have to realize is that while the demand is huge for this.. The supply of older motherboards is far more limted (in fact I know of only around 1000 that I can get my hands on for a low enough cost to make it worth while).

Well just keep up to date: http://www.2khappyware.com
 
Re: Here's hoping...

Originally posted by kinless
...I have stuck with my "desktop pizza box" Beige G3 configuration...
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Not to take away from your arguement (it's a good one), but the pizza box term refers to cases that litteraly are about the thickness of a delivery pizza box.

IE:
 
Hi there John!

Core is much better name than iBox (some Japanese thing anyways) or Tina (lame reminder of Lisa). You should create a poll of 10 or so names and put that on your webpage. Try to use something without a i or x as the first character please :rolleyes:

HM xxx (headless mac 867 or whatever speed)

Leo -- http://www.astrology-online.com/leo.htm
 
Re: This is the creator.

Originally posted by happyware
Hello everyone. Man oh man how news travels.

For your information I am already using Mac motherboards and other companies (for server use) are already doing this same thing.

The other thing people have to realize is that while the demand is huge for this.. The supply of older motherboards is far more limted (in fact I know of only around 1000 that I can get my hands on for a low enough cost to make it worth while).

Well just keep up to date: http://www.2khappyware.com
Click to expand...

I wish you the best of luck because many people believe that there is a genuine market for what you are doing and Apple hasn't realized this so it's good that someone stepped up to the challenge.

Here's to hoping Apple Legal doesn't slam your ass for this.
attachment.php
 
If this pans out I have a gut feeling that it would take forever to get any kind of support. A fully loaded iBox will cost between $650 and $2,000. I think I would wait an extra 2 months, save the additional money and buy from apple. I wonder how much service one of these "pizza b0xes" can provide before it dies. With Apple I don't have to wonder. If you could pick one of these things up for around $499 though, I would get one for my parents, or for any one who complains about not being able to afford a mac.
 
Price is key

If I could get one of these, with a G4 500 or something, for about $400, I'd buy one. (If I was shopping right now)
 
available...

The motherboard used is the gigabit ethernet motherboard used in the 500Mhz Range. While you could use a 400 or 550Mhz Processor you are better off using the newest Gigadesigns G4 8002MB cache and higher processors. The case itself will be available for $250-350 and the processor is around $250-300.
 
I really hope Apple just lets this happen. Think about it. He's not competing with Apple, he's competing with all those people that are selling used Macs on eBay. Someone could buy a used G4 400 tower on eBay for about $600-700 with no warrenty. Or they could buy one of these. I think it's a killer idea, it would be healthy for the mac community, and I see no reason why Apple should feel any threat. Good luck dude.
 
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