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Re: This is the creator.

Originally posted by happyware
Hello everyone. Man oh man how news travels.

For your information I am already using Mac motherboards and other companies (for server use) are already doing this same thing.

The other thing people have to realize is that while the demand is huge for this.. The supply of older motherboards is far more limted (in fact I know of only around 1000 that I can get my hands on for a low enough cost to make it worth while).

Well just keep up to date: http://www.2khappyware.com

I think this is a great idea: a stripped-down and low-profile Mac on the cheap. Just imagine how many of us could use this as some sort of low-end server or something to store our MP3s and videos. Make sure you make enough to cover cost (we don't want you to go bankrupt or anything!), and don't pay too much attention to the nay-sayers: this is almost how the two Steves started out with their original Apple. As you can tell from the inquiries you're getting, the demand for this definitely exists.

BTW, I like "Core" a heck of a lot better than "TINA."

Good luck!!! :)
 
Re: available...

Originally posted by happyware
The motherboard used is the gigabit ethernet motherboard used in the 500Mhz Range. While you could use a 400 or 550Mhz Processor you are better off using the newest Gigadesigns G4 8002MB cache and higher processors. The case itself will be available for $250-350 and the processor is around $250-300.
Speaking of the case... are you thinking a smoke grey color to try to go well with the Apple/Fowmac LCD screens? Or maybe pick from 3 (black, white, grey)?
 
Thats awsome

Long time reader first time poster... I'd definately buy one, if only to hold me over until I can buy another real mac. My dad switched to windows when apple ran into trouble a few years back, but I ended up getting my first job and spent pretty much all summer earnings on an imac. It still works like a champ (10.1.5) but my brother has been using an old B&W 350 which he somehow managed to break. It won't run in X anymore, and I don't want to touch the machine since its been handed down from about four different people. I'd love to take the monitor and reformatted HD and put it in a little box with a kickass video card and a decent G4, just something that could run Panther and Halo and all the games my bro plays. My computer does fine for what I need it to do, but its at the bottom of the mac gaming food chain. It really hurts to have to play games on my dad's PC or on my Xbox (I only bought one so I could play Halo, and so microsoft would lose money on the hardware.) I really could give a rat's ass about customer service or waranties, I've never called apple tech support once in my twenty years of dealing with their computers. (yes all my life, I learned the alphabet playing this game on the APPLE IIc with a penguin that sang when you pressed the right key.)

Bottom line is, my bro and I would love to buy a new apple computer but thats not going to happen anytime soon cause its gonna take a while to save for one. We've been looking at the emacs, but they aren't very configureable, and we don't need another freaking monitor, Plus the price is a little high. A sub thousand dollar mac clone would be great, I'd love to trick it out as a gaming machine, its within our current budget and I would actually buy more apple software that I wouldn't otherwise get for our outdated computers. Plus, once we did get a new Apple brand computer (970 imac or powerbook I'm wishing for) I could sell it to a PC using friend who I'm sure would realise the foolishness of dealing with windows (oh how he whines when his computer crashes every other hour, and oh how I chuckle when his even whinier excuse is "I know macs are better, but I'm a GAMER")

My situation may be unique, but If I bought one of these, In my estimation, it would only really benefit apple and myself. I hope apple doesn't send its legal goons after this, if they want to do something about it, create a product that would compete, don't use microsoftesque strongarming. Its about time there was another mac on the market that catered to the consumer's tastes, instead of the consumers catering to apple's tastes. Please reserve one of those motherboards for me, hell if apple tries to stop you, maybe we could work something out despite them . ;) I'll contact ya.... eventually. Good luck with the thing you're doing.
 
If you take a bunch of outdated parts and put them together, do you not have an outdated computer?

That's what new Macs are anyway, so its not like he's doing anything different. How old is the G4 now?


.....I think it's a good idea and seeing that he'll be using outdated Apple mobos, he mightdo alright for himself. This will never be a huge market though and there will be the chance that Apple buys him out and repackages this thing (which would be great).


There IS a huge market for this. Anybody who wants a Mac can now afford one. The prices compete at the level of PC's, not most Macs. It's actual competition is the single processor PowerMac that Apple is selling. Apple IS trying to sell you a stripped down Mac, but its selling it at quite an expensive price. This is better for anybody who wants to spend 40% less for the same thing, so why not do it?

About the legal issues: there aren't any. As long as he doesn't sell Mac OSX installed on the computers, I don' t really see the problem. He purchased all the parts from legal vendors of Apple parts, so obviously its legal to purchase these parts individually and put it to (good) use. Just don't call it a Mac, and don't call it an Apple product. Heck, don't call it an "i" product at all and I'm sure you can save yourself a lot of headache. I'm sure Apple will complain about the confusion between an iBox and an actual iMac, for example, when the parts used in both computers are similar.

I agree. Just think take an eMac cut the monitor off the top and sell it for $600 or less. I think I would buy one just as a second compuer. I would love to stick it in my home entertainment system and use it as a music/video server.

Again, that's what the single proc PowerMac is, except that Apple just happened to price it all wrong. They should just make their machine cheaper if they're actually worried about competition.
 
personally i think this is why apple got rid of the 3rd parties, its gives them a bad name. apple no longer has control of this computer and quality will suffer. he will have to buy lots of boxes of os x, quanities will be limited. what if one is bad, is he gonna fix it, will he even be around to fix it. do you send it to his house and have him fix it. will there be phone support. i just do not see this happening.

iJon
 
I really like this idea - but I'm afraid that the heavy hand of Apple legal is going to try to stomp this out right away.

Couple of things that it brings to mind tho -

1. Remember that outfit that was retro-fitting emacs with the SuperDrive? They got a cease & desist and about 2-3 months later, Apple started offering it as an option - and just a few months ago, dropped the price on the SuperDrive eMac.

2. With all this commotion about an affordable Mac, I hope Apple realizes the TREMENDOUS market appeal this idea has. For me, I only see two clear cut ways for Apple to DRAMATICALLY increase market share -

a. Release OS X so that it runs on Intel -or-
b. Release a "headless" computer to compete with the $500-$600 Dell/Gateway offerings.

I don't think the Intel option is really attractive to Apple at this point (lost hardware sales) - but the $500/$600 Mac alternative sure would get people switching in droves. I hope Apple sees the light!!
 
Originally posted by kzoonut
I really like this idea - but I'm afraid that the heavy hand of Apple legal is going to try to stomp this out right away.

Couple of things that it brings to mind tho -

1. Remember that outfit that was retro-fitting emacs with the SuperDrive? They got a cease & desist and about 2-3 months later, Apple started offering it as an option - and just a few months ago, dropped the price on the SuperDrive eMac.

2. With all this commotion about an affordable Mac, I hope Apple realizes the TREMENDOUS market appeal this idea has. For me, I only see two clear cut ways for Apple to DRAMATICALLY increase market share -

a. Release OS X so that it runs on Intel -or-
b. Release a "headless" computer to compete with the $500-$600 Dell/Gateway offerings.

I don't think the Intel option is really attractive to Apple at this point (lost hardware sales) - but the $500/$600 Mac alternative sure would get people switching in droves. I hope Apple sees the light!!
plus the boot rom code is only licensed to an apple computer. so basically his idea is already illegal and this end before it started.

iJon
 
Originally posted by iJon
personally i think this is why apple got rid of the 3rd parties, its gives them a bad name. apple no longer has control of this computer and quality will suffer. he will have to buy lots of boxes of os x, quanities will be limited. what if one is bad, is he gonna fix it, will he even be around to fix it. do you send it to his house and have him fix it. will there be phone support. i just do not see this happening.

iJon


Well since these are just Apple parts repackaged in a custom case I would imagine that any Apple dealer could repair them if they were broken (excluding the case of course)

plus the boot rom code is only licensed to an apple computer. so basically his idea is already illegal and this end before it started.

iJon

No it's only liscened to an Apple motherboard (I think, don't quote me on this) because like he said, he's done the same thing with packaging Apple motherboards/CPUs, yadda yadda in server cases so that part's not illegal at least.

If it were illegal like you said, then everybody who has put an Apple motherboard in a PC case would be hunted down and prosecuted by Apple Legal (which obviously hasn't happened)
What is illegal is running the Mac OS on a machine without an Apple supplied Boot ROM (or something like that) so as you technically could run OSX on one of those PPC Amiga boxes by installing Linux first, then Mac-on-Linux, it's illegal in that case, but not if that Amiga box carried a (legal) Apple supplied boot ROM.

I'm just speculating here so correct me if I'm wrong anyone.
 
Originally posted by vniow
Well since these are just Apple parts repackaged in a custom case I would imagine that any Apple dealer could repair them if they were broken (excluding the case of course)



No it's only liscened to an Apple motherboard (I think, don't quote me on this) because like he said, he's done the same thing with packaging Apple motherboards/CPUs, yadda yadda in server cases so that part's not illegal at least.

If it were illegal like you said, then everybody who has put an Apple motherboard in a PC case would be hunted down and prosecuted by Apple Legal (which obviously hasn't happened)
What is illegal is running the Mac OS on a machine without an Apple supplied Boot ROM (or something like that) so as you technically could run OSX on one of those PPC Amiga boxes by installing Linux first, then Mac-on-Linux, it's illegal in that case, but not if that Amiga box carried a (legal) Apple supplied boot ROM.

I'm just speculating here so correct me if I'm wrong anyone.
good points, this is just what one of mac techs told me. someone here will know the exact answer. but wouldnt it be selling the computer be the illegal part, not sure. anyways i still think this guy will fall flat on his face, but the best of luck to him.

iJon
 
iJon

If Apple has some PPC competition... only good things can happen.

As of right now, Apple is a monopoly (calm down for a second)... they sue out of existance anyone who tries to innovate their work (sounds familiar). They think that they should be the only one to sell the PPC in a home environment. That is cr@p. That is why Apple has become the stagnant elephant that they used to fight against.

Small speed bump here, buy out someones product and re-release it here... big frickin' deal. They have only done 2 things in the recent past that were good; OS X and the iPod. And neither of those was original either. They just modified it, for the better I grant you.

Look at the capabilities of a Macintosh Plus versus those of a PowerMac. The software is newer/prettier/"better" but does it really do anything that couldn't be done before? Not much...
 
Originally posted by yzedf
iJon

If Apple has some PPC competition... only good things can happen.

As of right now, Apple is a monopoly (calm down for a second)... they sue out of existance anyone who tries to innovate their work (sounds familiar). They think that they should be the only one to sell the PPC in a home environment. That is cr@p. That is why Apple has become the stagnant elephant that they used to fight against.

Small speed bump here, buy out someones product and re-release it here... big frickin' deal. They have only done 2 things in the recent past that were good; OS X and the iPod. And neither of those was original either. They just modified it, for the better I grant you.

Look at the capabilities of a Macintosh Plus versus those of a PowerMac. The software is newer/prettier/"better" but does it really do anything that couldn't be done before? Not much...
true, but that elephant is the elephant we have learned to love. i think apple keeping everything to itself is the reason they are so quality. apple can control the quality and that gives them a good name. sure you cant build your own machine cheaply, but thats the reason they are quality. if they get this guy building ibox's and giveing out his home phone for support of whatever and people dont give good service, people wont want a mac. plus who is gonnna fix these. do you go to some convention to get ibox certified. mac service centers have specific details on ordering parts. these people will have to pay outrageos prices on getting parts replaced in that computer, so the answer is yes resellers will fix them, if they want to pay one hell of a fee ot have a part replaced. there are just so many things apple has control of that will make this idea fail in my opinion.

iJon
 
Originally posted by iJon
true, but that elephant is the elephant we have learned to love. i think apple keeping everything to itself is the reason they are so quality. apple can control the quality and that gives them a good name. sure you cant build your own machine cheaply, but thats the reason they are quality. if they get this guy building ibox's and giveing out his home phone for support of whatever and people dont give good service, people wont want a mac. plus who is gonnna fix these. do you go to some convention to get ibox certified. mac service centers have specific details on ordering parts. these people will have to pay outrageos prices on getting parts replaced in that computer, so the answer is yes resellers will fix them, if they want to pay one hell of a fee ot have a part replaced. there are just so many things apple has control of that will make this idea fail in my opinion.

iJon
All of the expensive hard to do bits are NOT made by Apple. All they do is use the PPC architecture that nobody else uses for the home market, throws together a few slightly different configurations (CPU speed isn't a new config), tests it for a few months while fine tuning any new drivers that come from offereing "new hardware" such as FW800 or AE or BT, and then sell it. No different than Dell or Gateway really, on the hardware side of things. It just that Apple sells its "own" software (I use "own" loosely). The "it just works" factor comes from very limited driver base (few hardware specs to support) and the amount of time in between releases. Even then, they screw it up (iMovie 3 and the iPod battery issue as of recent).

Don't misinterpret me... I like Apple. Their approach is probably better than Microsoft and Intel's. But that is not saying much, is it? Don't claim to be bleeding edge innovators, if you aren't. And Apple isn't. Trailing edge... yes.
 
Originally posted by yzedf
All of the expensive hard to do bits are NOT made by Apple. All they do is use the PPC architecture that nobody else uses for the home market, throws together a few slightly different configurations (CPU speed isn't a new config), tests it for a few months while fine tuning any new drivers that come from offereing "new hardware" such as FW800 or AE or BT, and then sell it. No different than Dell or Gateway really, on the hardware side of things. It just that Apple sells its "own" software (I use "own" loosely). The "it just works" factor comes from very limited driver base (few hardware specs to support) and the amount of time in between releases. Even then, they screw it up (iMovie 3 and the iPod battery issue as of recent).

Don't misinterpret me... I like Apple. Their approach is probably better than Microsoft and Intel's. But that is not saying much, is it? Don't claim to be bleeding edge innovators, if you aren't. And Apple isn't. Trailing edge... yes.
quote from the site. "He will use Apple-made motherboards preloaded with Macintosh ROMs -- the vital piece of hardware-cum-software that makes a Mac a Mac." He is using apple stuff i think that is what you meant, not sure.

iJon
 
Originally posted by yzedf
iJon

If Apple has some PPC competition... only good things can happen.

As of right now, Apple is a monopoly (calm down for a second)... they sue out of existance anyone who tries to innovate their work (sounds familiar). They think that they should be the only one to sell the PPC in a home environment. That is cr@p. That is why Apple has become the stagnant elephant that they used to fight against.

Small speed bump here, buy out someones product and re-release it here... big frickin' deal. They have only done 2 things in the recent past that were good; OS X and the iPod. And neither of those was original either. They just modified it, for the better I grant you.

Look at the capabilities of a Macintosh Plus versus those of a PowerMac. The software is newer/prettier/"better" but does it really do anything that couldn't be done before? Not much...

I pretty much agree. I love my TiBook as much as the next guy, but as someone who regularly uses a PC at work and home, I do understand both the benefits and drawbacks of the Mac. The megahertz myth does indeed exist, but anyone who says a top-of-the-line G4 is faster than a top-of-the-line Pentium 4 has either bought in completely into Apple's propaganda or only does heavy rendering with Photoshop on their Macs. :rolleyes:

Look, Apple makes great computers, but it is not infallible and beyond reproach. Steve Jobs has basically imposed his own asthetic tastes on the Macs, and while some designs are indeed really cool, others are quirky or impractical. The Arstechnica article today on the OS X Finder is also a case in point. Believe it or not, I actually like some features of Windows (except for the occassional Blue Screen of Death :D ), and I think OS X can borrow a few of those features.

There is obviously demand for this product, and this fellow John is supposedly trying to meet this unfulfilled demand. I hope people like him will get Apple to wake up and listen more closely consumer demand.
 
sounds like it would have been a good idea for him to speak to the patent attorneys before he even started making prototypes etc. it will be a good idea if he can pull it off... actually it would be awesome!! :D :D

this might also draw some 'Mac' users that previously unable to purchase a Mac because of price. and as mentioned before, some Power PC competion would have to be a good thing, right?

the 'stagnant elephant' that is Apple might finally un-stagnate itself.:rolleyes: :p :)
 
Wont Happen

I am an authorized Apple service technician and it won't happen.

Apple's exchnage process means a dead board must be sent back in its place or a huge fee is added to the price.

In AUstralia, a typical G4 Logic is about $1000 Exchange or $1500 - 2500 OUTRIGHT.

Considering new machines are $3000, its not worth it for the one board, not to mention the processor.
 
Re: Wont Happen

Originally posted by digitalrampage
I am an authorized Apple service technician and it won't happen.

Apple's exchnage process means a dead board must be sent back in its place or a huge fee is added to the price.

In AUstralia, a typical G4 Logic is about $1000 Exchange or $1500 - 2500 OUTRIGHT.

Considering new machines are $3000, its not worth it for the one board, not to mention the processor.
exactly what i was saying. its just to complicated. this john guy isnt gonna get these parts forever. and if a reseller is supplying him apple will give them the boot.

iJon
 
Originally posted by vniow
If it were illegal like you said, then everybody who has put an Apple motherboard in a PC case would be hunted down and prosecuted by Apple Legal (which obviously hasn't happened)[/COLOR]
I'll bet if I started reselling them and got my name plastered on a major tech website and/or magazine (like Wired! did here), they would.
 
Originally posted by yzedf
Look at the capabilities of a Macintosh Plus versus those of a PowerMac. The software is newer/prettier/"better" but does it really do anything that couldn't be done before? Not much...
How about:
Firewire, desktop video editing (NLE's), DVD authoring, Mp3 (and AAC some day) music compression and CD authoring.
Not to mention color screens and ethernet!

None of these possible on a Mac Plus :p
 
You are all DREAMIN'!!!

I don't think it would work - at all! nice try but naive...

Okay, Apple has less than 5% of market, out of these 5%, how many people would buy such a thing? Design studios? Scientists? Parents and Schools? Musicians? nope, the MAJORITY of its market will not even look at it - but a few fans who are hooked on apple (both the hardware and software), and always want the best for less... come-on guys, wake up! its not what Apple stands for and Apple has formed a brand - thats right, its not always about the hardware or software - and people buy their product for the brand - no matter how "cheap" it is, not many people would want it - especially when its really second rate to the real deal... really, majority of people who can afford and use a mac (the majority of apple's market share) would not spend time on boards like this, crying for a cheaper alternative, but actually making a real difference with the mac they've got - that's right, stop crying you little babies, if you can't afford it, maybe its not for you? Its like not everyone can afford a BMW... but do you see anyone building his own BMW and reselling it under another name? what a joke! I can't believe how naive some people are.

and someone said switchers can now buy a "cheap" mac - which switcher would want such a thing? when he or she could just get a PC -when brand is not associated with this ****box apart from it can run OS X... I guess what I'm getting at is if you are a TRUE mac user, and stand by your BRAND, then its what you'll be getting, a mac experience, not some half-baked stripped down, cheap-ass, no support, one man show - who does nothing but rehashing and defacing a great product that we all love and cherish. I know it will not happen! when it does, I know the apple brand is dead.

Now if he's a true fan, he'd use his mac and actually do something useful with it... instead of seising an opportunity because the "encouragements" he gets from people on internet boards without any afterthought, or consultation - he's got to be naive.
 
Re: You are all DREAMIN'!!!

Originally posted by hokka
I don't think it would work - at all! nice try but naive...

Okay, Apple has less than 5% of market, out of these 5%, how many people would buy such a thing? Design studios? Scientists? Parents and Schools? Musicians? nope, the MAJORITY of its market will not even look at it - but a few fans who are hooked on apple (both the hardware and software), and always want the best for less... come-on guys, wake up! its not what Apple stands for and Apple has formed a brand - thats right, its not always about the hardware or software - and people buy their product for the brand - no matter how "cheap" it is, not many people would want it - especially when its really second rate to the real deal... really, majority of people who can afford and use a mac (the majority of apple's market share) would not spend time on boards like this, crying for a cheaper alternative, but actually making a real difference with the mac they've got - that's right, stop crying you little babies, if you can't afford it, maybe its not for you? Its like not everyone can afford a BMW... but do you see anyone building his own BMW and reselling it under another name? what a joke! I can't believe how naive some people are.

a number of people have made references to how macs are the BMWs of the computer world...i'm not particularly fond of that analogy. with the exception that computers in general are luxuries in a global sense, i didn't choose to buy a mac because i want a leather mouse and an apple hood ornament. i bought it because in a variety of ways it serves me much better than the PC i gave up for it...stability, performance (in certain respects), usability. i ended up using a mac at work and then going home to my PC was a hideous experience, so i switched. i didn't spend the money on my mac just for the sake of spending more money. it's not a luxury item in that sense.

i hope that this hobby or project is at least allowed to get as far as a small production run...i think it's in every mac user's best interests. let's face it...the only reason that apple isn't involved in an anti-trust lawsuit is because of its paltry market share. apple behaves in a manner that microsoft only wishes it could.
 
Are you guys even reading the article?

HE'S NOT COMPETING WITH APPLE!

He says himself that there is a total of about 1000 motherboards available. This is supposed to be a hobby thing for him to get a little extra money. What part of that "will never work?" If he only sells 100 total computers, I bet he would feel it was a success. Lighten up on the guy.
 
Mac-on-Linux

It would be interesting to see someone attempt something like this based on generic PPC hardware and running a highly cut down Linux with MOL. Surely Apple would have no way of taking legal action against this if the machine didn't actually ship with Mac OS.

If I could just easily get my hands on PPC procs and mobos in the UK then I would have a go at making my own machine like this. Sadly every PPC chip and mobo is totally unreasonably priced in single units.
 
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