I never said they couldn't protest, but last time I checked protesting doesn't involve interfering or turning towards violence... And I will give you some BS, because violence has already happened with or without the app. FFS.
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ICEBlock App Developer Sues Trump Officials, Claims Apple Was Pressured to Remove App
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I never said they couldn't protest, but last time I checked protesting doesn't involve interfering or turning towards violence... And I will give you some BS, because violence has already happened with or without the app. FFS.
It is actually, and the difference is the temperature towards speeding versus immigration and the current administration. That is the difference.
The person mentioned waze has a function where you can call out a police officer on the road who might or might not be looking for speeders etc... Folks "usually" don't go up to the officer on the side of the road and interfere with the officer. Conversely, folks are pretty hot about the whole immigration/ICE and are actively interfering with their operations especially since the current administration is promoting it.
Got it -- thx for the clarity.
I understand why people are "hot" about folks getting ripped out of their jobs or off the street by masked agents.
This is not an America any of us should want to live in.
There are ways to do the ICE job that are not nearly this indiscriminate and inflammatory, the latter of which I would argue is part of the point of why they are doing things as they are.
I believe the saying is "the cruelty is the point" (or at least part of it)
It is more than just the way ICE is doing their job, what you hear from a lot on the left is that there are no "illegal" people. IE they want completely open borders. So while Obama deported so many people and the left said nothing about it or even cared, now it is so far beyond just immigration, it is that immigration itself should not even be a thing because the borders should be open for just anyone to come into the US. So what do people want, illegal aliens to be deported just in a kindler gentler way or you don't want anyone kicked out no matter if they broke the rules to get there? If the first option of the kindler gentler way how long do you think this process should take and how much do you want to spend on that? I don't quite know myself, I think swift removal from the country is the best way but not sure how you can do that in a more civil way.
So the temperature of the public is raised by the actions of the administration, so the public is no longer entitled to know what the administration is doing in public? Seems like a convenient excuse to keep the administration's cruel and indiscriminate behavior out of the press.
When the government is sending masked, well armed agents out in unmarked vehicles to detain people for primarily civil offenses, their actions should absolutely be publicized and kept in the light as much as possible. In our reality, there is no evidence that iCEBlock was used to target violence against ICE Agents. Let alone enough to make it a significant purpose of the app. On the other hand, we have plenty of evidence of violence initiated by ICE agents.
If it wasn't hispanic people being harassed, this would be the exact thing that the 2nd Amendment worshipers have feared.
No one actually believes that, anywhere. Some people (full disclosure: including me) think calling human beings "illegals" dehumanizes them. But that doesn't mean we're for open borders. The idea that many on the left want anyone who wants to come into the country or completely open borders is just patently false. It doesn't exist anywhere except the minds of conservative influencers and politicians who know better and are lying to those who follow them.
I don't think people understand how virtually impossible it is to come legally if you're poor. (you know how many people got a low-skilled worker visa from Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras in 2017? 74. Not 74,000 people - 74 people). You know how many people from those countries got in from the Visa lottery? 13 from Guatemala, 26 from Honduras and 0 from El Salvador. 50,000 spots and people from those countries got 0.078% of them.
I saw someone I know today and they showed me a video of a friend of theirs, who (and I admit I can't confirm this, but not sure why my friend would lie to me) has no criminal record, getting stopped by ICE. They were pulled over by masked people, the friend asks to see some ID from the officer before rolling down the window, and in response, the ICE agent smashed the truck's window open, unlocked the door from outside, and dragged the guy out of the truck. He didn't run, his hands were visible on the steering wheel the entire time, and his friend was clearly recording the interaction, and that's what happened. Can't we at least agree that isn't ok?
I don’t want to live in an America where anybody can walk across (or sneak across) the borders without due process and establish residence. That’s not the way our forefathers did this. Did America change so much that being in this country illegally is now cheered?
The same can be said of police, and law enforcement.
The country has to do something to right the wrongs that have been committed.
I mean, unless you're Native American or a descendant of very recent immigrants, that's literally how our forefathers did this.
For most of US history there was effectively no immigration restrictions whatsoever. If you weren't Chinese (after the Chinese Exclusion Act), or carrying a communicable disease, you got off the boat and were let in. Anyone who could afford passage on a boat (which, in my family's case, included an entire family of illiterate farmers) just came over and established residence.
Again, no one is suggesting we go back to that system, but the idea that our ancestors did it "the right way" and these new immigrants are doing it "the wrong way" isn't accurate at all.
How people got here, vs how they are dealt with when here, and all the varying degrees of status they may have (or not) and what is appropriate conduct for each situation, seems like a very different conversation than what ICE is doing and how they are doing it.
I'm still trying to process what you've said here. I'm concerned with the implications of this mentality as a guiding principle.
I'm just disgusted by some of these tactics and "techniques" being done on my behalf as an American.
I’m with you. The mentality here is very concerning and I wonder how this bodes for our country.
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My grandparents came here through the Ellis island in the 1900s and endured many hardships (as has been told to me). They did not sneak across the border or under the border or take a boat to evade border patrol.
As far as my ancestors I can’t comment on going back 500 to 1000 years, it we have to do something about the illegal aliens and criminals.
Of course the problem is that the right wants to put all undocumented immigrants and criminals in the same group like you did here. The 3.5-4 million people awaiting their immigration hearings are following the law. The millions of dreamers who were brought here as children didn’t break the law.
As shown during the Obama administration, the mainstream left has no problems deporting people when it’s not done in a cruel and indiscriminate way. Deport criminals. Deport people that have already been denied asylum by the courts. Provide a temporary status with path to citizenship for the people that we need in our economy.
Yes. And we need many of them for agriculture, construction, and industry, to say nothing about their tax dollars and contributions to Social Security.
Seen on the internet: “The idea that having entered the country illegally means there is no inhumanity to which you can't be subjected is not ‘rule of law’ or an orderly immigration policy.”
so presumably those entering now, whichever way, face no hardships?
and there was no need to evade no border patrol in the early 1900s, since there were no quotas until 1921, so anyone who could get on the ship came as they were, and all went through Ellis Island.
as for criminals, assorted nazi-affiliated apparatchiks were saught after the war, no questions asked, because wild west america needed whatever 'talent' it could get.
me-me-me-ignorance is bliss.
IMO, the issue is the left wants everybody to just enter the country in any way possible as evidenced by the many posts and it should be perfectly acceptable and the US should do its best to support these people.
Sure that’s one view and the reason there is a raging debate on how to approach this very difficult issue.
At any rate I’m glad Apple has this discretion with apps. Law enforcement shouldn’t worry they have a target on their backs. I still don’t understand why the developer didn’t just use a website.
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Except that's not the mainstream left. That's cherry picking some extreme posts and pretending that it's the left's position. Again, Obama deported more people than any other president. The mainstream left was willing to pass a bipartisan immigration bill that increased enforcement. It was killed by the right at the request of 45/47, so he could continue to pretend that the left wants open borders like you are now.
I agree mostly with what was written except to take out the word “pretend”. Then I would agree even more. To me the word “pretend” mischaracterizes the intent.
But this is now far off the main topic of why the app was removed and whether it hindered law enforcement in the performance of their jobs.
I stand corrected. There are people certainly who seem to have no answer for the immigration issues in the US and there are indeed some who do want open boards but I defer to you that it is the minority or a fringe group.
Does it need to be possible to enter the US if you are poor? Are you suggesting they have a right to enter the country? This raises red flags to me as I feel no one has a right to enter any country, the country has a right to allow in who they want and refuse who they don't. I don't see anyone complaining about Japan and their strict policies.
I do agree that is a problem based on your story if it happened that way. I have seen countless videos of people though refusing to identify not just to ICE but local law enforcement for traffic stops that end up making things far worse for themselves but dragging out the process and refusing. Not saying that is what happened in your story, but there are thousands on YouTube in a similar situation that I would say the person being pulled over has created the problem for themselves. If indeed someone was pulled over and they respectfully asked for ID of the ICE agent and immediately after they smashed their window then yes I think that is escalating things far too quickly. In. the US from my understanding law enforcement has there right to ID people (might be in certain situations or if they have reason to suspect something is going on). In a country with estimated 14 million illegal residents I think that leads to a world where being asked to prove your right to be there is going to be more common and accepted.
Ironically, if ICEBlock was removed, as you claim, because "it hindered law enforcement in the performance of their jobs," then it's certainly an example of censorship. Since Apple doesn't have any guidelines prohibiting that and publishes apps that engage in similar behavior - including Apple Maps.
It varies by state. Around 20 states have Stop and Identify laws. All require reasonable suspicion for the stop. There is no federal Stop and Identify law. You have the right to remain silent.