iCloud mail, silent spam filtering, and reliability

exi

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 16, 2012
336
36
I am a long-time Gmail user. I'm thinking about switching to iCloud for everything, as in a couple of my other threads about iCloud issues.

iCloud has been called out this year for silently filtering spam such that it never even makes it to your junk folder and the false positives associated with that. I'm sure other providers do this as well, but iCloud seems to be the one that catches a bad reputation for more false positives than others.

There's also the bit in the iCloud ToS about them having the right to pre-screen, modify, delete, etc, at their discretion, which I don't much care for. Unsure if Gmail includes a similar clause.

My reasons for switching: push support; unification with the same service which stores my contacts, calendars, notes, and reminders; minimalism in that I'm not spread out over services if I don't need to be.

My question is this: do you think that it is still "safe" / reliable to go to iCloud over, say, sticking with Gmail or moving to Outlook.com? I hate the thought of emails never being sent or received because Apple is getting heavyhanded with its nannying.
 

Weaselboy

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 23, 2005
30,207
9,911
California
I have been using iCloud exclusively for email since back when it was called dotmac then later MobileMe and I have never once had a false positive block an email (that I know of). Once in a while a spam message gets through and I forward it to spam@icloud.com and they stop.

No complaints here.
 
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rmhop81

macrumors 68020
Apr 4, 2005
2,248
98
Dallas, TX
I am a long-time Gmail user. I'm thinking about switching to iCloud for everything, as in a couple of my other threads about iCloud issues.

iCloud has been called out this year for silently filtering spam such that it never even makes it to your junk folder and the false positives associated with that. I'm sure other providers do this as well, but iCloud seems to be the one that catches a bad reputation for more false positives than others.

There's also the bit in the iCloud ToS about them having the right to pre-screen, modify, delete, etc, at their discretion, which I don't much care for. Unsure if Gmail includes a similar clause.

My reasons for switching: push support; unification with the same service which stores my contacts, calendars, notes, and reminders; minimalism in that I'm not spread out over services if I don't need to be.

My question is this: do you think that it is still "safe" / reliable to go to iCloud over, say, sticking with Gmail or moving to Outlook.com? I hate the thought of emails never being sent or received because Apple is getting heavyhanded with its nannying.
they all are going to have their own faults. Gmail isn't anything special anymore. They do a lot of negative stuff just like you hear about the others. I used to be a big gmail user from the very beginning when it was in beta back in 2004. It was very reliable as i never lost any email etc. Over the years I got tired of all the ads and spam email. Sure the spam filter was great, but i've never received so much spam email in my life....even if it did go into the spam folder. But i would have to go through and review to make sure I don't miss an important email.

They finally lost me when they got rid of push support and were forcing it's iOS users to use their app. I'm an apple guy, so we have multiple machines and devices. I found it easier to just switch to iCloud and ditch gmail. I still forward my email in case anything comes from Gmail, but my main email is Gmail.

Like the other guy said, email spam@icloud and you won't have any issues. It's reliable and push works great across all devices.
 

pmontanarella

macrumors 6502
Oct 12, 2012
321
7
Vancouver, Canada
I am a long-time Gmail user. I'm thinking about switching to iCloud for everything, as in a couple of my other threads about iCloud issues.

iCloud has been called out this year for silently filtering spam such that it never even makes it to your junk folder and the false positives associated with that. I'm sure other providers do this as well, but iCloud seems to be the one that catches a bad reputation for more false positives than others.

There's also the bit in the iCloud ToS about them having the right to pre-screen, modify, delete, etc, at their discretion, which I don't much care for. Unsure if Gmail includes a similar clause.

My reasons for switching: push support; unification with the same service which stores my contacts, calendars, notes, and reminders; minimalism in that I'm not spread out over services if I don't need to be.

My question is this: do you think that it is still "safe" / reliable to go to iCloud over, say, sticking with Gmail or moving to Outlook.com? I hate the thought of emails never being sent or received because Apple is getting heavyhanded with its nannying.
Have been using iCloud pretty much since 2009 (it was MobileMe back then) with a short break because I was using an Android device, I haven't had a single issue with emails not getting to me or not getting delivered to others correctly, as far as I know. I'd call it very reliable.
 

satirev

macrumors 6502
May 23, 2010
430
0
just lost about 10 emails with the "move to folder" glitch in iCloud. stay away from it.
 

exi

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 16, 2012
336
36
just lost about 10 emails with the "move to folder" glitch in iCloud. stay away from it.
Read as I'm switching everything over to iCloud. :)

Believe this to be a Mail 7 issue with Mavericks. Saw this occur with Gmail messages via IMAP.
 

satirev

macrumors 6502
May 23, 2010
430
0
Read as I'm switching everything over to iCloud. :)

Believe this to be a Mail 7 issue with Mavericks. Saw this occur with Gmail messages via IMAP.
think you're right, I see on the web side of iCloud if I try to move an email from the inbox to the inbox it won't even let me because the inbox is greyed out and can't be selected.

Guess I will be ditching the mail app and sticking to the web side for now.
 

moocherx

macrumors newbie
Oct 20, 2010
5
0
Don't Do It!!!

I hope it's not too late.

I switched over form Gmail to icloud a month ago. BIG mistake.

With no rules, and no way to remove the Junk folder, I am now having CRITICAL emails dumped into Junk, and so not appearing on the email client I use on my smartphone.

Worse, when I log into icloud on the web for mail, and physically MOVE the emails into INBOX and/or mark them as Not Junk... within SECONDS they move themselves back to JUNK.

Big big big big big mistake to have moved to icloud for email.
 

exi

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 16, 2012
336
36
Just to add to this:

I've recently sent a few emails from iCloud to people who have no incentive to play the whole "oh, I never got that email" card.

Some of those people have said "oh, I never got that email." One eventually "found it"; the other, still no response; the third says he just never got it and was surprised when I forwarded the original from a separate Exchange address I have.
 

BroadcastDoc

macrumors 6502
Nov 22, 2008
263
40
Milwaukee, WI
The receiver not getting the message is not necessarily an iCloud issue as much as their servers filtering messages. That's not to say that there's nothing wrong with iCloud, but from what you're describing that sounds more like filtering issues from their providers.

Anecdotally, I've used iCloud mail for years (I have a mac.com address) and I can only think of a few times that mail didn't get to a recipient and 100% of the time it was an issue with the recipient's mail server. On inbound, I haven't had an issue with "lost" email, but I generally don't receive email with content or senders that could possibly be considered spam (in other words all clearly non-spam).

Your mileage may vary, but I've been overall happy with iCloud mail.
 

exi

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 16, 2012
336
36
Appreciate the input. Still not sure if I ought to switch back or not.

One of the people I'd emailed as above, when I emailed her from an organizational Exchange account, had no idea I'd emailed her months prior from @icloud.com and was able to find them in her spam folder. So it seems that at least some mail servers are a little more prone to spam/filter iCloud mail.

So it's between Outlook for having ActiveSync, or ol' king Gmail. Would hate to have contacts / notes / calendars / tasks / mail divided across services.

(Edit: I posted similar concerns on Apple's forum recently, and one of the community mods removed the post. Got an automated email talking about it being a "poll or petition" as opposed to a technical, answerable question. Hah.)
 
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exi

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 16, 2012
336
36
Adding to my thread for those searching for the same sort of thing: I was recently told of an email sent out days ago to myself and a few dozen other people. No trace of it in my iCloud account, not in junk mail, not in iCloud.com's webmail interface, nowhere.
 

robgendreau

macrumors 68040
Jul 13, 2008
3,341
259
You might wanna at least look at paid professional email providers. You might lose push, but there are often better server-side services available. And you can get a real domain-specific address instead of the cheesy icloud or me or whatever. And better rules and filtering. Joe Kissel had a good article about switching from Gmail to easyMail from easydns; it's pretty inexpensive. And there are others.
 

MUWarrior10

macrumors member
May 7, 2014
77
2
Chicago
Spam spam spam

This question is more out of curiosity, but has anyone else had issues with spam/junk mail coming through to their icloud account. I used my icloud email as my primary account for a period of about two years. I switched to gmail this past January for work purposes, but still use icloud for some select people. However, the last couple weeks all I have been getting is junk mail.

I see in previous posts to forward to spam@icloud.com is this still the best way or is there another way I improve the filtering?
 

impaler

macrumors 6502
Feb 20, 2006
438
7
FL
This question is more out of curiosity, but has anyone else had issues with spam/junk mail coming through to their icloud account. I used my icloud email as my primary account for a period of about two years. I switched to gmail this past January for work purposes, but still use icloud for some select people. However, the last couple weeks all I have been getting is junk mail.

I see in previous posts to forward to spam@icloud.com is this still the best way or is there another way I improve the filtering?
That's the best way to filter it at the server level. If your desktop mail application supports it, you can also junk filter at the client level. Be sure if you use Mail on OS X that you forward the email as an attachment.
 

exi

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 16, 2012
336
36
Not to bump my own thread, but figured I'd post again about this whole thing.

The upcoming Dropbox-style iCloud changes are nice, as is the rest of iCloud. But goodness, Mail is just... I don't know.

Since posting this thread, I have still had several occasions where emails to people who generally are prompt with replies, fail to get replies. The same message resent via Gmail does not have this problem.

Anyone else have any similar experiences (or great experiences)? Back in that place where I'm trying to scheme out the most harmonious approach for seamless function across devices, full contact field sync (like how Exchange does not support email field labels), and mail I never doubt. Was toying with Outlook but have not had a chance to trial their upcoming rules/undo/etc update -- have two accounts on bay176 and bay181, not there yet. Though would not use webmail interface often. Suggestions appreciated.
 

AX338

macrumors regular
Dec 20, 2013
153
8
London
I often label emails that are coming to my icloud as junk but this doesnt stop them from coming, doesn't seem very effective.

I tend to then pic up my emails from my Galaxy Note which offers the option to add the entire email senders address to Spam or just the domain section, which is far more effective.
 

LoveMyPens

macrumors regular
Mar 11, 2013
113
4
Still having some issues as well. I've primarily used Gmail... giving iCloud numerous tests. My two issues were messages not being sent, just disappearing. I knew I sent something's to myself at work and when I got there the next day there was nothing. I went to sent items and nothing there either. The last couple months I decided to give it another try. I haven't had any issues with sent items but something did come up the other day. Went in my Gmail to delete messages that were forwarding to my iCloud. Noticed that one from Kmart titled "shop your way" never arrived in my inbox. It is any ad they send daily or weekly. I still do not receive it. Not in my junk either. Who knows what else I may not be receiving for mail that is sent directly to iCloud. So want this to work but iCloud mail once again gives me reason to doubt :mad:
 

dave dave

macrumors newbie
Jun 4, 2010
14
0
still broken Nov 2014

I was missing some important emails this week. After sending 20 different test emails, I narrowed the problem down to a single phrase. Any email sent to an @me.com or @icloud.com account containing the phrase "abcwidgets.com" is silently deleted. It doesn't go into Trash or Junk and the sender is not notified -- it just disappears silently. How many other emails have I been missing due to Apple's dislike of various phrases???

Apple's level 2 support confirmed this behavior using their own personal iCloud account. I'm waiting to see what level 3 support comes back with, but I suspect it will be something like "you're emailing it wrong".
 
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Weaselboy

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 23, 2005
30,207
9,911
California
I was missing some important emails this week. After sending 20 different test emails, I narrowed the problem down to a single phrase. Any email sent to an @me.com or @icloud.com account containing the phrase "abcwidgets.com" is silently deleted. It doesn't go into Trash or Junk and the sender is not notified -- it just disappears silently. How many other emails have I been missing due to Apple's dislike of various phrases???

Apple's level 2 support confirmed this behavior using their own personal iCloud account. I'm waiting to see what level 3 support comes back with, but I suspect it will be something like "your emailing it wrong".
Can confirm. Just sent two tests from gmail to my iCloud address. One with "hello test abcwidgets.com" that never arrived, then two seconds later sent just "hello test" and it came through right away. Interesting.
 
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