If Apple was actually serious about gaming and wanted to create it's own version of a Steam Machine how should they do it?

[JayKay514]

Steam reportedly has close to 80% market share in the game launcher market. Epic is struggling with about 8% and GOG doesn't seem to have any percentage worth mentioning. Most people who play games will by default go to steam.

OK, just to qualify that statement, Steam's Wikipedia article says they had about 132M monthly active users as of 2021, and as noted in recent news, their servers can serve about 40+M of those simultaneously.

However, the worldwide market of PC gamers - of all types - is about 1.8 billion, according to Statista.

That means Steam serves just 7.3% of the entire PC gaming market.

So the notion that "most people who play [PC] games will by default go to Steam" seems a little unfounded.

As someone who used to work in the games retail sector (back when we had more physical computer games stores), all kinds of people play all different kinds of games.

We got as much, if not more profit from people who dove into the $4.99 CD-ROM bin to buy 10-15 old games at once as a "bargain," than a single copy of the latest AAA game.

I mean, it might feel galling to think about, but... I'm pretty sure both Apple and Google make a ton of profit from silly $2.99 games intended to amuse toddlers while their parents are busy. Parents will easily buy 5-10 of those if not more.

Same thing with any number of puzzle games that people buy to play in the morning or on the bus to work, or "pocket" versions of their favorite console games or RPGs, etc.

The price barrier is so low it doesn't feel like a big decision, and it doesn't require cutting-edge hardware.

 

[JayKay514]

Why not as a main gaming machine? All that's missing is game compatibility, which they are always working on. Apple silicon is always getting more and more powerful for gaming with each generation.

Oh, I have nothing against a Mac as a main gaming machine. I don't think there are any technological barriers.

The questions for me are:

• Does Apple see gaming as a growth market for them to enter?
• Can they leverage their strengths in tablet and mobile gaming to some sort of living room experience + maybe a Mac / Vision component?
• How might they offer something better than their competitors? Where are the opportunities to "Apple-ize" things?
• Would they rather address / create a market sector that doesn't currently exist - i.e. redefine the problem vs. try to take competitors head-on, create their own playing field.

I'm not sure what you mean re they're not chasing specs - they feature the performance of each new chip and often reference gaming performance in every keynote.

Yes, they definitely do. Gaming performance is a good proxy for system performance overall, but again, that's different than making a hard push to sell Macs as game machines. (At least for now.)

Apple wants you in their ecosystem. If their device is good enough for gaming that you don't need a separate Windows PC, that's a win for Apple. You might take the savings of owning a separate gaming device and put that into a better chip or more storage on your next Apple device.

Yes and no. Some people are just not very technical Mac users or upgrade that often. Again, this is the difference between that small percentage of games-focused users who are technically proficient, and people who prefer the simplicity and fun of something like a pocket system or a Wii.

 

[teh_hunterer]

OK, just to qualify that statement, Steam's Wikipedia article says they had about 132M monthly active users as of 2021, and as noted in recent news, their servers can serve about 40+M of those simultaneously.

However, the worldwide market of PC gamers - of all types - is about 1.8 billion, according to Statista.

That means Steam serves just 7.3% of the entire PC gaming market.

And yet they have nearly 80% of the PC digital games distribution market.

So perhaps 80% of computer users who use a digital store to buy and manage their gaming library use Steam to do so.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Yes, they definitely do. Gaming performance is a good proxy for system performance overall, but again, that's different than making a hard push to sell Macs as game machines. (At least for now.)'

What are you actually expecting in a "hard push"? Does Apple make a "hard push" to sell Macs as music or video production machines?

They talk about music and video production occasionally. You could start poking at that and saying the same thing, "but how does it serve them to be in that market when music and video producers are a small percentage of users"?

 

[JayKay514]

And yet they have nearly 80% of the PC digital games distribution market.

So perhaps 80% of computer users who use a digital store to buy and manage their gaming library use Steam to do so.

Presuming we are talking about the same thing here, sure… but you realize we are subdividing a percentage of a percentage here.

Steam have a very good business and a big library, I don’t dispute that. I’m just trying to put it in context.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Presuming we are talking about the same thing here, sure… but you realize we are subdividing a percentage of a percentage here.

Steam have a very good business and a big library, I don’t dispute that. I’m just trying to put it in context.

It seemed to me that you were taking it out of context. What context are you putting it in? We're comparing digital game distribution stores on computer aren't we?

 

[JayKay514]

What are you actually expecting in a "hard push"?

Well, I mean full omnichannel marketing campaigns selling Macs as game machines equal or better to the alternatives; promoting Apple Arcade / the App Store’s games library; showing how easy it is to run PC games in Crossover, play your favorite iOS mobile / tablet games on Mac, stream games online or from consoles; and all with better resolution and color fidelity.

Maybe do special edition color anodized / laser-etched Mac Minis for popular game partnerships!

Maybe leverage, I dunno, Apple Stores with an actual physical Apple Arcade in the bigger ones, a wider range of gaming accessories like 8BitDo controllers, headsets, retro controllers, LED decor and whatnot.

Commit real money to the proposition.

Apple doesn’t really need to sell itself in the AV and design markets because that’s an essential part of their brand. Apple has always been “the creative computer.” The computer the design department uses, the recording studio, your home studio, the photo studio.

From “Here’s to the crazy ones,” to this year’s “What do you see?” ad campaign, their marketing rarely strays too far from that through-line.

 

[JayKay514]

It seemed to me that you were taking it out of context. What context are you putting it in? We're comparing digital game distribution stores on computer aren't we?

I was putting it in the context of the entire worldwide market of people who play games on PCs (estimated at 1.8 billion people), vs the worldwide market for mobile games (estimated to be about 2.5 billion+).

I do stress that “people who play games on PCs” is a much broader and inclusive way to describe it, because “PC Gamer®” seems limiting and reductive.

 

[teh_hunterer]

I was putting it in the context of the entire worldwide market of people who play games on PCs (estimated at 1.8 billion people), vs the worldwide market for mobile games (estimated to be about 2.5 billion+).

Apple will always make more money from mobile gaming than from traditional computer/console games.

It doesn't mean traditional computer games aren't still important. They're still important artistically, they do still make money, and the ability to play them is something Apple is improving and talking about since Apple silicon. And it's something that can help the Mac. I've seen so many people who would use a Mac full time if their games would only run on it.

And Apple's success on taking 30% cuts from mobile games might make them blind to the idea that people who do play traditional computer games and are thinking about switching to Mac are not going to give up their existing game stores and libraries the way they might be willing to on mobile. A potential Mac user and a potential iPhone user are not the same thing.

Well, I mean full omnichannel marketing campaigns selling Macs as game machines equal or better to the alternatives; promoting Apple Arcade / the App Store’s games library; showing how easy it is to run PC games in Crossover, play your favorite iOS mobile / tablet games on Mac, stream games online or from consoles; and all with better resolution and color fidelity.

Maybe do special edition color anodized / laser-etched Mac Minis for popular game partnerships!

Maybe leverage, I dunno, Apple Stores with an actual physical Apple Arcade in the bigger ones, a wider range of gaming accessories like 8BitDo controllers, headsets, retro controllers, LED decor and whatnot.

Commit real money to the proposition.

I think they're just too far behind to do this and lock it in to their own app stores. They would have to have an absolute seismic shift in the company if they were going to actually compete this way. They would have to bring in some HUGE games all at once. Their store sucks, and on Mac which is an open platform, the competition is just too good. Again, why lock myself into the Apple platform and pay higher prices when I can just bring my existing Steam library with me? It's not iOS, it's macOS. It's a computer.

And even the lock in to their app store on iPad is getting a bit tenuous. Once Valve's new stuff comes out, people are quickly going to be able to run full PC games on Android Snapdragon devices using FEX. Why stay locked in on the Apple platforms where there are barely any good games when you can just run your whole Steam library on your Android phone, tablet, etc?

At what point does the iPad Pro become just silly and fall behind in this scenario?

 

[maflynn]

At what point does the iPad Pro become just silly

There's a lot of references about the iPad, and I don't understand the allure. There's mobile gaming, which is on ios and ipados. Apple makes a crapt on of money mobile gaming

there's desktop or pc gaming that includes the mac, and console gaming. The console/pc segments are converging, partly due to sony releasing their exclusivs onto the pc, and partly to microsoft intenting to make the next xbox a pc.

Anyways, desktop and console have advantages over an iPhone and ipad. More processing, more gpu capability and more cooling. While there's some AAA games on the ipad, I have to think many of the demanding ones will suffer from performance and/or cooling.

From what I gather cyberpunk on the switch 2 can cause your handheld to over heat, throttle, shutdown. Battery life is measure in minutes not hours. People complain about the switch's fan noise playing these AAA games - can you imagine a tablet with no fans?

I never understood the allure of playing aaa games on mobile devices, usually there's too many compromises or performance issues, but that's just me. If I want a mobile device I'll get a steam deck

 

[teh_hunterer]

There's a lot of references about the iPad, and I don't understand the allure. There's mobile gaming, which is on ios and ipados. Apple makes a crapt on of money mobile gaming

there's desktop or pc gaming that includes the mac, and console gaming. The console/pc segments are converging, partly due to sony releasing their exclusivs onto the pc, and partly to microsoft intenting to make the next xbox a pc.

Anyways, desktop and console have advantages over an iPhone and ipad. More processing, more gpu capability and more cooling. While there's some AAA games on the ipad, I have to think many of the demanding ones will suffer from performance and/or cooling.

From what I gather cyberpunk on the switch 2 can cause your handheld to over heat, throttle, shutdown. Battery life is measure in minutes not hours. People complain about the switch's fan noise playing these AAA games - can you imagine a tablet with no fans?

I never understood the allure of playing aaa games on mobile devices, usually there's too many compromises or performance issues, but that's just me. If I want a mobile device I'll get a steam deck

The allure is pretty easy to see imo. Just compare it to the Switch 2 and Steam Deck.

- bigger, beautiful screen
- thinner and lighter
- more powerful even accounting for thermal throttling
- great accessories like the magic keyboard
- hands down a way more versatile device for non gaming stuff
- far better battery life

It's only being held back by game availability/compatibility. These games should be at home on the iPad, and it should be a fierce competitor to these handhelds, but the games just aren't there, sadly.

You could go on the internet and read all the people who can see the iPad's potential and are frustrated that it's not reaching it, and never manage to read it all before you were old.

 

[1d1otic]

Impossible.

Console's GPU performance is at least 2~3 times powerful than M5's GPU performance based on the RAW performance or TFLOPS. To match that, it has to be Max series which means it will be a lot more expensive than any consoles out there. Even Xbox and PS's prices are heavily below profits so I highly doubt it.

But of course, Apple has potential since it's easy to unify the hardware and software which is a huge advantage unlike PC. Again M5 wont be enough especially since 4K 60FPS is still difficult to achieve.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

If they want to be real innovators, and make another ton of cash, they should turn the Vision Pro into an immersive game platform. Imagine all the accessories they could sell for it, from weapons to joysticks to simulator pods.

Gaming may indeed be a future AVP usage. However AVP is actually a big deal of useful new tech, with one big limitation being that so many people see AVP through the filter of 2015 VR thinking and gaming. So if Apple was to "turn the Vision Pro into an immersive game platform," it would be a huge denigration of the AVP platform, and reinforce all the lame, short sighted old-VR-based thinking that most here express in their comments.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

This is the biggest one for me. Yes I like the idea that some games are universal across iOS, iPadOS and macOS, and you can play it across all your Apple devices. But it's not worth losing the ability to play on other platforms like Windows or SteamOS in future. It's not worth splitting up my big games library that I've had for over 15 years.

And from what I've read from randoms on the internet, in those cases where a game is ported and launched on the Apple app stores universally across iPhone/iPad/Mac, the deal is they aren't to release it on other stores like Steam.

As much as I like my iPad and my iPhone, I'm not splitting up my Steam library just so I can play AAA games on tiny screens.

The entire gist of these comments ("my big games library that I've had for over 15 years") is simply not a market Apple cares one whit to address. Apple is building a structure (hardware competence, an app store for delivery, and cross-device compatibility) and devs can build to it to access a billion Apple device users, or not. The issue of "so I can play AAA games" means very little.

Sorry but all you experienced gamers can stay where you are. Apple is building to support the next generations, not to support existing AAA gamers. [Just my $0.02, I have never worked for Apple]

 

[diamond.g]

The entire gist of these comments ("my big games library that I've had for over 15 years") is simply not a market Apple cares one whit to address. Apple is building a structure (hardware competence, an app store for delivery, and cross-device compatibility) and devs can build to it to access a billion Apple device users, or not. The issue of "so I can play AAA games" means very little.

Sorry but all you experienced gamers can stay where you are. Apple is building to support the next generations, not to support existing AAA gamers. [Just my $0.02, I have never worked for Apple]

If this was 100% true, why has Apple wasted resources copying feature sets that are explicitly used in AAA gaming?

 

[Allen_Wentz]

If this was 100% true, why has Apple wasted resources copying feature sets that are explicitly used in AAA gaming?

Easy. What I said is not 100% true. To the extent that it does not involve a strong change in direction. Apple will of course pick up AAA usages. My point is simply that Apple will not change direction to suit the needs of AAA gamers.

 

[teh_hunterer]

The entire gist of these comments ("my big games library that I've had for over 15 years") is simply not a market Apple cares one whit to address. Apple is building a structure (hardware competence, an app store for delivery, and cross-device compatibility) and devs can build to it to access a billion Apple device users, or not. The issue of "so I can play AAA games" means very little.

Sorry but all you experienced gamers can stay where you are. Apple is building to support the next generations, not to support existing AAA gamers. [Just my $0.02, I have never worked for Apple]

I doubt even Apple has such a dismissive attitude to people who play non-mobile games.

But that is so sycophantic isn't it? "Apple device doesn't do what you want? Well that's because you're the problem! The platform isn't for the likes of you!".

You should never take for granted the "access to a billion users". Those users are hard won and when every mobile device is able to play any computer game except Apple's, things may shift. By all accounts, the AAA games Apple put on their store with a billion users flopped.

Finally, a 15 year old game library isn't something to dismiss out of hand. Older games are valid forms of art just like music. They're relevant and they matter.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Gaming may indeed be a future AVP usage. However AVP is actually a big deal of useful new tech, with one big limitation being that so many people see AVP through the filter of 2015 VR thinking and gaming. So if Apple was to "turn the Vision Pro into an immersive game platform," it would be a huge denigration of the AVP platform, and reinforce all the lame, short sighted old-VR-based thinking that most here express in their comments.

😅 surely you can't be serious. Having games on the VR headset would be a huge denigration of the platform? I've seen people try to bend things pretty hard to apologise for Apple but that almost takes the cake.

That's almost like the time someone on here said the latency on homepods with FaceTime was fine because the speakers are too premium to be used for such a mundane function.