If Apple was actually serious about gaming and wanted to create it's own version of a Steam Machine how should they do it?

[progx]

What game publisher/developer will increase their overhead, complexity for 2% of gamers playing on the mac?

Here's the issue as I see it, if a publisher produces a game on windows, that means that its available on linux/steam deck, and mac users can play it via crossover and/or Geforce Now. What motivation is there for studios, to add a platform that will not increase their sales.

You do realize not EVERYONE uses Steam for gaming. While Mac Gaming isn’t huge, Steam has been bleeding Mac users since they decided to can their support for it. Apple has done a pretty good job funneling people to their App Store, plus the purchase the app one time and play it across all your devices is enticing.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

You do realize not EVERYONE uses Steam for gaming. Mac gaming is much larger than Steam’s claimed survey. Apple has done a pretty good job funneling people to their App Store, which has hurt Mac gaming on Steam.

Have you looked at the top games in the app store?

For the free tier, #1 is Steam Link and #4 is Solitaire.

In top paid games we have Geometry Dash (2013) and The Sims 2 (originally 2004). Cyberpunk 2077 is the only AAA game I recognize from this decade (2020). They're advertising Myst, a Mac App Store Game of the year from 2021, but it's originally from 1993.

I'm sure that mac gaming is more popular than Steam would lead you to believe, but by the same token, most of the games on steam - AAA or otherwise - won't even run on a mac.

 

[maflynn]

Apple has done a pretty good job funneling people to their App Store, which has hurt Mac gaming on Steam.

This is an assumption, you have no way to back up your claims

 

[diamond.g]

This is an assumption, you have no way to back up your claims

this neatly dovetails back to my assertion about seeing game sales and active users in the Mac App store (or in game center).

 

[maflynn]

this neatly dovetails back to my assertion about seeing game sales and active users in the Mac App store (or in game center).

Yep, and it clearly benefits both the studios and consumers. Apple though has never really been that open about a great many things they manage and control.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

You do realize not EVERYONE uses Steam for gaming. Mac gaming is much larger than Steam’s claimed survey. Apple has done a pretty good job funneling people to their App Store, which has hurt Mac gaming on Steam.

A publisher’s “desire to get paid and not give away Mac development time for free (or cheap) via Steam” has done more to push developers to the App Store than anything Apple’s doing.

 

[maflynn]

A publisher’s “desire to get paid and not give away Mac development time for free (or cheap) via Steam” has done more to push developers to the App Store than anything Apple’s doing.

How so? I don't understand your point?

 

[progx]

This is an assumption, you have no way to back up your claims

So… what’s your stats to show EVERY PC gamer uses Steam? I guess GOG is fake to you

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

So… what’s your stats to show EVERY PC gamer uses Steam? I guess GOG is fake to you

I am not @maflynn of course, but you made the original claim/assumption. It is up to you to back it up.

 

[maflynn]

So… what’s your stats to show EVERY PC gamer uses Steam?

First, you're making a statement of fact, so back it up.

Secondly there's a big difference, let me spell it out for you.

When mac people use crossover to play games they're using the windows version of steam and the windows version of the game. Game publishers thus are seeing windows sales. They don't care if the person is playing on windows, steam deck, linux or mac. they just made a sale.

So to put it another way the 2% mac marketshare does not help apple's stance on gaming regardless of its accuracy. The publishers will make the sale anyways and mac users will play via crossover

 

[JayKay514]

Apple hasn’t missed with gaming. They do quite well. Top 5. It’s just not the gaming you’re thinking of. And there’s not much money in “non mobile gaming” for them. Sad to say. If there was they’d be after a slice.

This.

Dedicated PC and console gamers seem to forget that the VAST majority of "gamers" are on mobile, for a wide variety of reasons.

Newzoo, which tracks and publishes game market data, noted that in 2024, mobile was fully 50% of the worldwide game market; 30% was on consoles, and only 20% was on PC.

Breaking down that PC segment further, only about a third are high-end PC gamers; the majority are either playing on entry-level PCs / laptops or on "medium" spec machines.

From that same report, the vast majority of games are free-to-play / freemium or subscription-based, with only 30% being premium paid titles.

So high-end premium AAA PC gaming is maybe 2% of the total market (30% of 30% of 20%).

It's a profitable niche the same way that BMW and Porsche have a profitable niche in the car industry, but the reality is that most people drive Hyundais and Toyotas, and even more people ride bikes and scooters (worldwide).

Developing for iOS is a much more desirable target because the hardware and OS variations are minimal, a developer account is $99/year, and you can publish bug fixes and updates to the App Store for free.

For comparison: A friend of mine worked on the indie hit Fez, which is now multiplatform, but was originally an Xbox exclusive at launch in 2012. At the time, Microsoft charged developers forty thousand dollars to publish updates to their platform, so getting bug fixes out was a massive cost to an indie studio.

In any case... I can see Apple continuing Apple Arcade (funding ports / limited time exclusives) as part of the same strategy behind Apple TV original content; it's part of the product halo that makes their Apple One subscription service a good value for families.

 

[lapstags]

I recently played metro exodus again on Mac after purchasing it in 2020. It would be cool if they brought that to iPad with ray tracing using the new metal 4 fx features. Bring the enhanced version to Mac and iPad. Apple needs to help devs with AAA games.

 

[diamond.g]

This.

Dedicated PC and console gamers seem to forget that the VAST majority of "gamers" are on mobile, for a wide variety of reasons.

Newzoo, which tracks and publishes game market data, noted that in 2024, mobile was fully 50% of the worldwide game market; 30% was on consoles, and only 20% was on PC.

Breaking down that PC segment further, only about a third are high-end PC gamers; the majority are either playing on entry-level PCs / laptops or on "medium" spec machines.

From that same report, the vast majority of games are free-to-play / freemium or subscription-based, with only 30% being premium paid titles.

So high-end premium AAA PC gaming is maybe 2% of the total market (30% of 30% of 20%).

It's a profitable niche the same way that BMW and Porsche have a profitable niche in the car industry, but the reality is that most people drive Hyundais and Toyotas, and even more people ride bikes and scooters (worldwide).

Developing for iOS is a much more desirable target because the hardware and OS variations are minimal, a developer account is $99/year, and you can publish bug fixes and updates to the App Store for free.

For comparison: A friend of mine worked on the indie hit Fez, which is now multiplatform, but was originally an Xbox exclusive at launch in 2012. At the time, Microsoft charged developers forty thousand dollars to publish updates to their platform, so getting bug fixes out was a massive cost to an indie studio.

In any case... I can see Apple continuing Apple Arcade (funding ports / limited time exclusives) as part of the same strategy behind Apple TV original content; it's part of the product halo that makes their Apple One subscription service a good value for families.

So what you are saying is Apple couldn't get a Steam Machine to work because folks only play non-AAA freemium mobile games.

I recently played metro exodus again on Mac after purchasing it in 2020. It would be cool if they brought that to iPad with ray tracing using the new metal 4 fx features. Bring the enhanced version to Mac and iPad. Apple needs to help devs with AAA games.

So unless Apple is doing the port themselves this isn't something that one should hope for because 4A Games most likely wouldn't make the costs to port (to add RT and Metal 4 support) back.

 

[JayKay514]

So what you are saying is Apple couldn't get a Steam Machine to work because folks only play non-AAA freemium mobile games.

I am saying -- as @cateye and others have noted -- that form of gaming is probably not a profitable niche for Apple to devote hardware resources to.

Their version of a "Steam Machine" is anything that meets Apple Arcade minimum specs, so relatively recent Macs, iPhones, iPads, and Apple TVs.

The phone and tablets alone are a massive target market for developers, and Macs are an easy reach because if the games meet Designed for iPhone / iPad specs, then they will run on Macs with Apple Silicon.

 

[leman]

I know Apple would never do this but let's just do a theoretical exercise. The Steam machine is said to be stronger than the steam deck which puts it around 9 tflops. If Apple actually wanted to create an Appletv Pro or gaming console hybrid would they need to stick a M2 Max or M3 pro or something similar into this machine? How would the pricing be?

Apple already has a Steam-machine equivalent gaming computer, it's called a MacBook Air.

 

[lapstags]

So what you are saying is Apple couldn't get a Steam Machine to work because folks only play non-AAA freemium mobile games.

So unless Apple is doing the port themselves this isn't something that one should hope for because 4A Games most likely wouldn't make the costs to port (to add RT and Metal 4 support) back.

I agree that’s what I’m saying Apple should pay to port it to metal 4 and market it on the m3/4/5 iPads. It’s a an old game but playing the enhanced version on a iPad would be remarkable. Same with cyberpunk bring AAA games with RT and advanced graphics to iPads. Remedy’s control will be our first taste of that.

 

[OptimusGrime]

Apple already has a Steam-machine equivalent gaming computer, it's called a MacBook Air.

Just replying so I get notifications of goalposts being moved.

 

[Luis Ortega]

@cateye nailed the problem, but for the sake of playing your game:

Apple do already have a major gaming platform with lots of games - it’s called iOS. They’ve already got a range of hardware devices you buy to play those games - iPhones & iPads.

So if Apple really wanted a gaming console their best bet would be a handheld with better game-playing ergonomics than an iDevice but still compatible with touch- and gyroscope-based games. Plus, this plays to the strengths of Apple Silicon which is ahead of the game for small/low power/integrated CPU power but struggles when size and power consumption are less important.

If they want to be real innovators, and make another ton of cash, they should turn the Vision Pro into an immersive game platform. Imagine all the accessories they could sell for it, from weapons to joysticks to simulator pods.

 

[teh_hunterer]

You do realize not EVERYONE uses Steam for gaming. Mac gaming is much larger than Steam’s claimed survey. Apple has done a pretty good job funneling people to their App Store, which has hurt Mac gaming on Steam.

Well to be honest it really is EVERYONE who uses Steam except you and maybe some of your friends. Nobody uses the App Store outside of YouTubers and a tiny tiny group of people.

 

[OptimusGrime]

Well to be honest it really is EVERYONE who uses Steam except you and maybe some of your friends. Nobody uses the App Store outside of YouTubers and a tiny tiny group of people.

I’m sure the people who love demanding proof of assertions will be along soon…unless…

 

[teh_hunterer]

I’m sure the people who love demanding proof of assertions will be along soon…unless…

It's real grim if reports are to be believed.

"

• Example of Assassin's Creed Mirage: Received over 123,000 downloads, but fewer than 3,000 users paid the
  $49.99
  unlock fee.
• Example of Resident Evil 4: Had over 357,000 downloads, but only about 7,000 users paid the
  $29.99
  unlock fee."

Which doesn't surprise me. The number of traditional PC gamers, now using Macs, who are willing to part from their massive decade+ backlog of games from Steam or other stores, in order to pay full price so they can use a worse store and be able to play the game on their phone sometimes, has to be only a few thousand people in the whole world.

Those games aren't even in the top 200 paid games on the store.

For me it's Steam or bust. I want to buy my game once on my preferred store. I would prefer to use Apple devices to play said game, but if they aren't going to play ball because they're chasing their 30% cut, then most people won't either.

 

[OptimusGrime]

It's real grim if reports are to be believed.

"

• Example of Assassin's Creed Mirage: Received over 123,000 downloads, but fewer than 3,000 users paid the
  $49.99
  unlock fee.
• Example of Resident Evil 4: Had over 357,000 downloads, but only about 7,000 users paid the
  $29.99
  unlock fee."

Which doesn't surprise me. The number of traditional PC gamers, now using Macs, who are willing to part from their massive decade+ backlog of games from Steam or other stores, in order to pay full price so they can use a worse store and be able to play the game on their phone sometimes, has to be only a few thousand people in the whole world.

Those games aren't even in the top 200 paid games on the store.

For me it's Steam or bust. I want to buy my game once on my preferred store. I would prefer to use Apple devices to play said game, but if they aren't going to play ball because they're chasing their 30% cut, then most people won't either.

These are all from the same couple of sources if I’m not mistaken. Mobilegamer.biz and other such execrable places. These also relate to iOS releases and not macOS. Other than that good job.

For me I avoid Steam at al costs. Refuses to follow platform standards, craps nonsense in my ~/Library and is electron. No thanks.

 

[teh_hunterer]

These are all from the same couple of sources if I’m not mistaken.

There are no other sources to go on. Evidently because nobody really cares.

Mobilegamer.biz

Nope.

and other such execrable places. These also relate to iOS releases and not macOS.

Aren't they the same purchase anyway? Even then, nobody has access to real numbers because neither party will publish the numbers. All we have to go on is this.

For me I avoid Steam at al costs. Refuses to follow platform standards, craps nonsense in my ~/Library and is electron. No thanks.

You're in a tiny minority. Most people who play games on computer already have a big backlog of all their games on other stores like Steam. That takes precedent over incredibly niche complaints like storing things in the library folder or it being an electron app. Nobody cares.

 

[OptimusGrime]

There are no other sources to go on. Evidently because nobody really cares.

That doesn’t follow. You are making the case that nobody cares because non-existent data tells you so, and that there is no data because no one cares. Bizarre.

Nope.

Yep and if not then what? As said before, if you’re making the case, you should provide evidence.

Aren't they the same purchase anyway? Even then, nobody has access to real numbers because neither party will publish the numbers. All we have to go on is this.

What? The only data is what? You didn’t provide any and denied my source.

You're in a tiny minority. Most people who play games on computer already have a big backlog of all their games on other stores like Steam. That takes precedent over incredibly niche complaints like storing things in the library folder or it being an electron app. Nobody cares.

You don’t know whether it’s a minority because as you admit, there isn’t any data.

Most people who play games use Windows and that’s a sad enough fate. You’re on a Mac forum. The fact that you think following platform standards is niche and nobody cares tells me everything about the value of your opinion.

 

[teh_hunterer]

That doesn’t follow. You are making the case that nobody cares because non-existent data tells you so, and that there is no data because no one cares. Bizarre.

Nobody is bothering to write about it because nobody cares. Apple and the publisher aren't providing any data because that data would show those releases flopped. They're not going to embarrass themselves.

Yep and if not then what? As said before, if you’re making the case, you should provide evidence.

"Apple has done a pretty good job funneling people to their App Store, which has hurt Mac gaming on Steam."

I was responding to this, not coming here to make a case.

What? The only data is what? You didn’t provide any and denied my source.

Don't even know what you're saying here. Aren't those apps universal? You buy it on Mac or iOS, same purchase.

You don’t know whether it’s a minority because as you admit, there isn’t any data.

If you truly think the games on the Mac app store are actually meaningfully competing with Steam, all I can say is have fun.

I'm not going to waste my time providing citations for something that's bleedingly obvious. Look it up your own self and waste your own time.

Most people who play games use Windows and that’s a sad enough fate. You’re on a Mac forum. The fact that you think following platform standards is niche and nobody cares tells me everything about the value of your opinion.

Most people who play games on computer are already long and well bought in to a non-Apple store. The fact you can't take this information in tells me everything about the value of your opinion.