If I return a rMBP will it be sold as refurbished?

[GGJstudios]

GGJ seems to miss the stories about people that got a ream of paper or something in a box...

Certainly such things can and have happened. However, Apple does not, as a matter of policy, sell returned items as new. What an individual working in a store may do is another matter. The OP's question is regarding a Mac that was ordered online and delivered, not picked up at an Apple store.

 

[TRMC13]

What if the unit was damaged during shipping? Even though no signs may be visible to the box, the computer could have something wrong internally that occurred during shipping.

You do know that the products on the shelves and the products you get delivered from your house usually come from the same factory right? So when you say damaged during shipping, shipping from where? It's just as likely to be damaged going from China to Apple as it is going from China to your front door.

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34 Fed. Reg. 176-77. Federal Trade Commission's 1969 Enforcement Policy

The Federal Trade Commission bans deceptive labeling in the sale of any product. This means that returned items cannot be sold as new, and retailers who sell rebuilt or otherwise remanufactured items must label them as such and not sell them as new items. If an item has merely been re-shelved without being used by another consumer, retailers should indicate that.

Your interpretation of what you think the reg means is entirely inaccurate. It's a regulation against deception, not the sheer act of reselling a sealed product that appears not to have been opened and used. I don't know about you, but I certainly don't have the same vacuum sealing equipment that Apple uses to seal their products, but I may be the minority.

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Just the fact that they were employed by a company doesn't mean they have knowledge about everything the company does.

As one who processed and inspected (checking the plastic for signs of tampering and opening) returns of sealed products, and restocked them at the close of business that day, I'd say I have a pretty good idea.

 

[PatriotInvasion]

Isn't there a restocking fee for an opened box?

 

[TRMC13]

Isn't there a restocking fee for an opened box?

Not at Apple any more. They changed the policy a year or so ago I believe.

 

[Geckotek]

34 Fed. Reg. 176-77. Federal Trade Commission's 1969 Enforcement Policy

The Federal Trade Commission bans deceptive labeling in the sale of any product. This means that returned items cannot be sold as new, and retailers who sell rebuilt or otherwise remanufactured items must label them as such and not sell them as new items. If an item has merely been re-shelved without being used by another consumer, retailers should indicate that.

Sorry, but are you a lawyer? A judge? Your interpretation of the policy is meaningless.

Return a sealed item to a store and it will go back on the shelf. I believe the former Apple employees over anyone else regarding this matter.

 

[GGJstudios]

Sorry, but are you a lawyer? A judge? Your interpretation of the policy is meaningless.

Return a sealed item to a store and it will go back on the shelf. I believe the former Apple employees over anyone else regarding this matter.

First, I didn't "interpret" anything. Second, as already stated, the OP did not get their Mac from a store, but had it shipped from Apple. Third, you have zero proof that Apple puts returned computers "back on the shelf". Fourth, you're accepting not an Apple employee's word, but the word of someone who joined this forum 10 days ago and who claimed something that is allegedly from an unnamed former Apple employee who worked at an unnamed location doing an unnamed job. If you choose to go with that, that's your right. I'm not buying it.

 

[Tharian]

Current employee here. If a box is unopened and undamaged, we will resell it. Period.

-d

 

[Geckotek]

First, I didn't "interpret" anything. Second, as already stated, the OP did not get their Mac from a store, but had it shipped from Apple. Third, you have zero proof that Apple puts returned computers "back on the shelf". Fourth, you're accepting not an Apple employee's word, but the word of someone who joined this forum 10 days ago and who claimed something that is allegedly from an unnamed former Apple employee who worked at an unnamed location doing an unnamed job. If you choose to go with that, that's your right. I'm not buying it.

Your statement directly after posting the policy was an interpretation. Not sure how you don't understand that.

My friend WAS an Apple employee who told me they did. And another friend works there now, I'll go ask him if it makes you feel better. Not sure why you think the store would be different from online.

 

[thekev]

Isn't there a restocking fee for an opened box?

They used to have one. It was removed. This may be one of the reasons for pulling the old imacs prior to the launch of the updated ones. They do not want to encourage a flurry of returns/exchanges at that time. When the new macbook pros came out, and incredible number of refurbished units became available online. I have yet to see retina macbook pros come up refurbished. Perhaps they're working on the display thing prior to listing any of them. Image persistence is nothing new. It's just that I've never seen signs of the issue on new displays in the past.

 

[Irock619]

You do know that the products on the shelves and the products you get delivered from your house usually come from the same factory right? So when you say damaged during shipping, shipping from where? It's just as likely to be damaged going from China to Apple as it is going from China to your front door.

I'm talking about apple or bestbuy or what ever retail store that ships to your house of course. Computers shipped from china are in bulk and crated, which makes them less prone to damage, didn't you know?

 

[T5BRICK]

I'm talking about apple or bestbuy or what ever retail store that ships to your house of course. Computers shipped from china are in bulk and crated, which makes them less prone to damage, didn't you know?

On occasion they are still shipped individually. I used to work at a 3rd party Apple reseller and we'd get a hundred or so PowerBooks from China, individually shipped. It happened with iPods too sometimes. I never understood how shipping that way was economical, but it happens.

 

[Mr.Retina]

It's not a matter of being idealistic or "saints". It's purely business. Apple would be facing countless lawsuits if they misrepresented returned products as being new. You can believe whatever you want, but the fact that a former employee states something is hardly a reliable source, as many who are even currently employed don't have all the facts. This forum is filled with examples of Apple employees who gave false information. Just the fact that they were employed by a company doesn't mean they have knowledge about everything the company does.

I just recently moved on from my BOH(Inventory specialist) Job at an Apple retail store. If an item is retuned closed boxed it is automatically put back into our sellable bucket. If the item is an open box return or CTO Machine/ipad/ipod ect it automatically goes into our RTW bucket. I hope this clears things up for all that are in a disagreement....

 

[Mdwall]

I'm beginning to wonder where all the refurbs are to be honest

 

[TRMC13]

I'm talking about apple or bestbuy or what ever retail store that ships to your house of course. Computers shipped from china are in bulk and crated, which makes them less prone to damage, didn't you know?

I did know, but that's not what I'm talking about, and you're partially incorrect.

On occasion they are still shipped individually. I used to work at a 3rd party Apple reseller and we'd get a hundred or so PowerBooks from China, individually shipped. It happened with iPods too sometimes. I never understood how shipping that way was economical, but it happens.

This is what I was talking about. When I worked at Apple, we would often get shipments the same way you would to your house.

I just recently moved on from my BOH(Inventory specialist) Job at an Apple retail store. If an item is retuned closed boxed it is automatically put back into our sellable bucket. If the item is an open box return or CTO Machine/ipad/ipod ect it automatically goes into our RTW bucket. I hope this clears things up for all that are in a disagreement....

Thanks for the verification. It's been a while since I worked Apple Retail, but I knew nothing had changed. When you make over 20 posts a day on a Mac forum, I understand if first person experience gets in the way of the way people think things work.

 

[emgoodman]

Well certainly wasn't my intent as the OP to start a heated discussion. Anyway, the Macbook remains sealed in the box and will be dropped off that way with the return label attached. Bou, its tempting to crack the puppy open and play around but I'm going to have to resist - partially I know because once I start messing around with it I'd probably somehow let the return date slip by...

 

[Geckotek]

Well certainly wasn't my intent as the OP to start a heated discussion. Anyway, the Macbook remains sealed in the box and will be dropped off that way with the return label attached. Bou, its tempting to crack the puppy open and play around but I'm going to have to resist - partially I know because once I start messing around with it I'd probably somehow let the return date slip by...

That's too bad, mine (15") arrived a day early today and I'm posting from it right now. It's pretty sweet.

 

[alexander25]

When a Mac is sold, the warranty clock starts and is tied to that serial number. If they took it back and resold it as new, the new buyer would get less than 1 year warranty coverage. Refurb models are given a new serial number that identifies them as refurbs, and also allows for the warranty clock to start again when they are sold. You can verify remaining warranty/AppleCare coverage for any Mac by entering the serial number here.

Apple refurbished products are considered by most to be a very good deal, as they're pretty much like buying a new Mac, except for the box.

• Apple Certified Refurbished Products are available online from the Apple Refurb Store and are not sold in local Apple stores
• Educational discounts do not apply to refurb products.
• Refurb products come with the same warranty as new products, and qualify for AppleCare
• Refurb products have a changed serial number that identifies them as refurbished
• Refurb products come with whatever OS version and software they originally shipped with as new
• Refurb products come with the same items in the box as new products, only the box is a plain one, not the new box.
• A refurb product could have some cosmetic signs of prior use, but rarely do
• A refurb Mac may have some cycles on the battery, but not a significant enough amount to affect usable life
• The refurb store inventory changes frequently, sometimes several times a day, and doesn't have any direct relation to upcoming product releases. What's available in the refurb store is determined by what has been returned to Apple.
• If you're looking for a particular item, refurb.me can alert you when it becomes available.

you couldn't be anymore wrong dude.

the warranty doesn't start until you boot up the machine.

either way, apple makes these machines and they can reset the warranty to whatever they feel like.

 

[GGJstudios]

the warranty doesn't start until you boot up the machine.

That is false. Apple has no idea when a user first boots up their computer. The warranty starts when the purchase is complete, which for online orders is usually when the computer ships and the credit card is charged. A user could keep their computer for 6 months without booting it up and the warranty would be half gone by then.

http://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/products/mac-english.html

Apple warrants the Apple-branded hardware product and accessories contained in the original packaging ("Apple Product") against defects in materials and workmanship when used normally in accordance with Apple's published guidelines for a period of ONE (1) YEAR from the date of original retail purchase by the end-user purchaser ("Warranty Period").

 

[mrsir2009]

you couldn't be anymore wrong dude.

the warranty doesn't start until you boot up the machine.

either way, apple makes these machines and they can reset the warranty to whatever they feel like.

Haha, so you could go and buy a MacBook, not boot it up for 10 years and then have your warranty start in 2023? If that's true I might buy a Mac and not boot it up for 10 yrs, then go into an Apple Store and demand support just to see the look on their faces

 

[TRMC13]

That is false. Apple has no idea when a user first boots up their computer. The warranty starts when the purchase is complete, which for online orders is usually when the computer ships and the credit card is charged. A user could keep their computer for 6 months without booting it up and the warranty would be half gone by then.

http://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/products/mac-english.html

God, wrong again! It's as simple as buying a sealed-as-new MacBook Pro from an authorized reseller. Even if the machine was purchased 6 months ago, assuming they were able to return it to Best Buy (or in some cases from my experience, an Apple Store), whoever ends up buying it and using it simply has to show proof of purchase via fax or email to AppleCare Support, and they will reset the warranty from date of purchase by the new user. This is also the case with floor models purchased from Best Buy, and used to be the case when Apple Retail stores sold their former floor models at a discount to customers. The warranty was set from the time of purchase by the end user, and that date is fluid based on who it's purchased from.

 

[GGJstudios]

God, wrong again!

No, I'm not wrong, as I'm quoting directly from Apple's warranty. You should learn some facts before you falsely claim that someone is wrong. It is absolutely false that warranty begins at boot up, as was claimed.

 

[alexander25]

No, I'm not wrong, as I'm quoting directly from Apple's warranty. You should learn some facts before you falsely claim that someone is wrong. It is absolutely false that warranty begins at boot up, as was claimed.

i bought a macbook pro last year, before i turned on the computer i went online to check the status of my warranty. it said something along the lines of not being registered yet and if i bought a computer to register it now.

well, i set up the macbook without it being connected to the internet and guess what, it still wasn't registered.

i typed in my serial number a month later, and it asked me to register the computer. i did, and it asked for a purchase date. i lied (on purpose to see if it would know) and i ended up getting an extra month of apple care.

not that it matters anyways because i didn't use it, but please.. you don't know everything.

Haha, so you could go and buy a MacBook, not boot it up for 10 years and then have your warranty start in 2023? If that's true I might buy a Mac and not boot it up for 10 yrs, then go into an Apple Store and demand support just to see the look on their faces

i think it only works if you buy it from a source other than Apple. i did it last year, read above.

 

[GGJstudios]

so i waited a month and finally did it, it asked when i bought the computer and i lied (yes, on purpose) to see if it would know and i got an extra month of apple care.

Your post proves the very point I was making. Warranty commences on the date of purchase (in your case, the dishonestly claimed date of purchase), and is not based on when you first boot up your computer.

 

[Weaselboy]

34 Fed. Reg. 176-77. Federal Trade Commission's 1969 Enforcement Policy

The Federal Trade Commission bans deceptive labeling in the sale of any product. This means that returned items cannot be sold as new, and retailers who sell rebuilt or otherwise remanufactured items must label them as such and not sell them as new items. If an item has merely been re-shelved without being used by another consumer, retailers should indicate that.

That is not a citation. You posted text from an eHow article word for word. Hardly a legal citation.

15 U.S.C. § 45 is actually the relevant code section that prohibits deceptive business practices.

All 34 Fed. Reg. 176-77 is is the FTC's published policy in the 1969 Federal Register on what they would view as a deceptive business practice. For a good analysis of how this policy is actually applied, review this PDF from the FTC to Sony's legal counsel. If one reviews the FTC response to Sony it is quite clear Apple is not being deceptive within the context of this statute by putting an unopened product back on the shelf. The FTC even goes so far as to tell Sony they can resell a television as new that was previously sold AND opened, as long a they have a reliable method of proving it was never turned on and no parts are missing.

Bottom line, there is nothing illegal about Apple putting an unopened product back on the shelf for sale as new.

 

[GGJstudios]

That is not a citation. You posted text from an eHow article word for word. Hardly a legal citation.

The first part of my post was the citation. The second part was the quote from the article. I never claimed that the eHow statement was a legal citation.

For a good analysis of how this policy is actually applied, review this PDF from the FTC to Sony's legal counsel.

I read that opinion completely. Sony stated very specific procedures that the FTC reviewed and based their opinion on. Absent such procedures, the opinion would have been different. There is no such indication that all other companies have the same procedures in place or would have the same outcome.