If you replace your iMac every decade then a separate Mac + display is useless to you

[Longplays]

When Apple announced the 2021 Studio Display 27" & 2021 Mac Studio they neglected to include the replacement of the 2020 iMac 27". That iMac is now 34 months old.

Apple & many others said that you are better off with a separate 27" display + Mac Studio/mini as the monitor wouldn't be "wasted" if you upgrade.

Now there are users out there that replace every refresh but there are others who'd only replace way longer than that like say after the final macOS Security Update was released. This typically occurs nearly 10 years after that Mac was 1st shipped.

After a decade that display would be half the display resolution, half nits of brightness and color space of currently sold displays. Not to mention wear and tear would reduce the published nits.

Example:

2012 iMac 27" has a 2.5K resolution display at 300 nits of brightness with a non-P3 color space. The 2021 Studio Display has a 5K resolution at 600 nits of brightness with a P3 color space. If the 2012 "display" was separate from the "Mac" would you still continue using it for another decade?

It would be showing its age by now after an average daily use of ~8hrs/day for ~3,650 days.

Physically speaking back then miniDisplay port was used 10 years ago and was replaced shortly after by USB-C ports that is being used today. Will USB-C form factor be used by 2033 or 2043?

Yes, we can use dongles but the point is it is that old. Maybe after a decade's use an upgrade is in order? It would be like using VGA or DVI in 2023.

 

[theorist9]

I pretty much agree. Though if you use, say, three monitiors, rotating out the the older monitor to be one of your side monitors can work well. My 8-year-old 4k 27" Dell works fine as one of my side monitors (my main monitor is a 2019 27" 5k iMac). And it still has more than enough brightness for text work.

 

[Longplays]

I pretty much agree. Though if you use, say, three montiors, rotating out the the older monitor to be one of your side monitors can work well. My 8-year-old 4k 27" Dell works fine as one of my side monitors (my main monitor is a 2019 27" 5k iMac). And it still has more than enough brightness for text work.

Thank you for your added input.

My point of view does not cover that specific use case.

IIRC your 2019 iMac 27" shares nearly the same specs as the 2021 Studio Display.

By 2029-2031 I'd wager that the resolution, nits and color space will be marketably improved.

 

[LeeW]

So I think what you're saying is that if there was a new 27" iMac today you would buy it and keep it for 10 years.
Otherwise a Studio Display and say Mac Studio could result in either the Mac or Display being replaced within 10 years.

Not really sure what your point is. Nobody is saying you must upgrade either component. If you want to keep either setup for 10 years, that is your choice.

 

[Longplays]

So I think what you're saying is that if there was a new 27" iMac today you would buy it and keep it for 10 years.
Otherwise a Studio Display and say Mac Studio could result in either the Mac or Display being replaced within 10 years.

Not really sure what your point is. Nobody is saying you must upgrade either component. If you want to keep either setup for 10 years, that is your choice.

As I started this thread so naturally no one's saying that but the other thread said it.

I started this thread to point out this specific use case that not everyone wants to upgrade that quickly as many on MR think their use case is identical to everyone elses.

To many an Apple device is like a TV, HVAC, refrigerator or a washer/dryer where in your replace every 1-2 decades like say a car.

 

[LeeW]

Apple appears to have picked a direction. I don't see a 27" iMac in their future line-up, not alongside a 24" which is clearly for the home masses. If you want a setup larger than 24" they provide a 27" display (even a 32") and a range of options MBA, MBP, Mac Mini, Studio and Mac Pro to go with the display. Or bring your own display.

Is Apple trying to push everyone down a route of more regular upgrades? Sure they are, but it still comes back to the same thing, the choice to upgrade is yours, not theirs.

 

[Sun Baked]

I have not changed the few machines due to the monitor, typically my last few upgrades have reached the limit of the CPU and/or GPU with one or the other making it painful to use.

Midway through the use cycle I upgraded the monitors. And right now I cannot see a 5k monitor in the future when a 6k monitor might be a Black Friday sale away.

 

[Longplays]

Apple appears to have picked a direction. I don't see a 27" iMac in their future line-up, not alongside a 24" which is clearly for the home masses. If you want a setup larger than 24" they provide a 27" display (even a 32") and a range of options MBA, MBP, Mac Mini, Studio and Mac Pro to go with the display. Or bring your own display.

Is Apple trying to push everyone down a route of more regular upgrades? Sure they are, but it still comes back to the same thing, the choice to upgrade is yours, not theirs.

Thank you for your reply but it does echo a lot of past opinions online and does not add anything new.

Replacements is predicated needs/wants/money. Some repalce every spec bunch while others delay even beyond a dozen years and reaching quarter century.

 

[LeeW]

does not add anything new.

There isn't anything new to add, that's why. It seems to me that it's only about what you want, a new 27" iMac.

 

[Longplays]

There isn't anything new to add, that's why. It seems to me that it's only about what you want, a new 27" iMac.

Which many want as well. We often get replied that a Mac + display is the solution... errr... no thank you.

 

[mcnallym]

I am still using my dell 3008wfp screen as everyday screen on games rig/Mac Studio.
Launched and purchased late 2007 so approaching 16 years. Has displayport that used since then that is still relevant today, though my games rig uses a mini-DP to dp cable as is an Intel hades canyon nuc. Use a usb-c to displayport cable for studio so no need for dongles at all.

before had my studio then was using a hackintosh that built to replace my Mac Pro 5,1 as no interest in iMac and Apple had no suitable desktop between mini and Mac Pro.

whilst the screen is not 4K/5K it is 2560x1600, effectively when run the 5k studio display and iMac is 2560x1440 using 4 pixels to represent one on my screen to produce sharper image but not getting any actually more usable real estate. Actual 5k on a 27” screen would be really small.
so also not really losing out on usable screen estate. Whilst text not as sharp as a 5k screen it is still sharp enough to be no problem reading text etc.

There is a whole massive thread about new mac and less then a 4K screen where people arguing back and forth with the starter actually typing that people using less then 4K are lieing about the screen text being readable for them. Seems to have gone quiet since was pointed out came across as intolerant of other people’s views if calling people a liar when they find non retina not blurry. Note pointed out came across as intolerant not that accused them of being intoleranot.

so where people start presuming that there need is everyones they routinely get called out in there thread.

there are plenty of posters in here over the years that bemoaned about having to “throw away” there iMac screen. Others that happy to move on as by the time

there are posters that used to say the 27” too big, others that clamour for a 30-32” size iMac.

there is also the fact that now in the mac arena then there is a lot more business sales then used to be. The lack of server not an issue and IBM of all people has for years offered Mac for desktop/laptop internally and has a business that does the Mac/Windows integration that is quite profitable.
with more business/enterprise software run either on servers or cloud then the fact that not Windows in front of the user less and less an issue. these people won’t be keeping for a decade.

plus from a financial perspective who will Apple listen too, someone spending money regularly every 3 years or someone spending money every decade.

Thank you for your reply but it does echo a lot of past opinions online and does not add anything new.

Replacements is predicated needs/wants/money. Some repalce every spec bunch while others delay even beyond a dozen years and reaching quarter century.

not sure how you expect anything ”new”. AIO vs Seperates has been done to death.
as has Apple doesn’t meet my needs anymore.

will expand on LeeW answer for you.

Some people moan that cannot use iMac in TBD so have to throw the screen.
Some people would just replace anyway even in the days of TBD and didn‘t see the loss as anything important.
some people love the clean look of AIO.
others have the wires go under the desk so everything else out of site with wires hidden by the stand (same as in iMac)
others if the monitor breaks then whole machine out whereas could just hook up another screen.
some will keep the monitor through several machines
some already have a good monitor and don’t see need to throw the monitor away as only use 1 monitor for an AIO.
others will replace the screen anyway with each machine.
some bemoan the loss of iMac Pro and want a Pro level AIO with workstation internals.
others wanting workstation won’t touch AIO as not expandable, upgradable.
some people want larger then 27”
some say 27” too big and wanted smaller screen but still the higher cpu/GPU then the 21.5” internals.
people cannot bootcamp x86 windows now
other people (like me) keep windows and Apple seperate.

you are never going to please everyone, and even under Steve Jobs then Apple never attempted to before people start spewing the ”it wouldn’t have happened under Steve”

I remember watching a video ages ago where Steve Jobs basically said that Apple targets certain usages cases and requirements and builds the best products they can for those. If the product meets your requirements then fantastic, however it if doesn’t then basically tough, people need to find a product that does and Apple is not for you. though he was more polite about it then my wording.

Not in an elitist way but the same way that if want to attempt the record at the ring don’t pick an unmodified 7 seater SUV. Same as don’t pick a high performance souped up 911 etc if want to take 6 kids on school run.

there is not one ”add something new” in the whole thread including the opening post when it comes down to it. So not sure what you expected when started it.

 

[mcnallym]

Which many want as well. We often get replied that a Mac + display is the solution... errr... no thank you.

You get that reply as that is the solution available.
people cannot give you a solution that doesn’t exist.

 

[LeeW]

It's clear what you want, will you get it? Maybe. Next week? No. Likely going to be in 2024, maybe announced in Q4 2023. It just looks clear to me at least that a larger iMac is not high on their agenda at the moment.

What @mcnallym said really sums it up nicely.

plus from a financial perspective who will Apple listen too, someone spending money regularly every 3 years or someone spending money every decade.

 

[klasma]

A modular setup allows you to replace either component anytime you wish, without having to replace everything. You may keep your Mac for ten years, but you may switch out the monitor in five years, for example. In addition, it allows you to mix and match usages, like attaching a difference device to the monitor. It simply provides more flexibility in the face of unknown future products and unknown future needs and wants.

 

[okkibs]

After a decade that display would be half the display resolution, half nits of brightness and color space of currently sold displays. Not to mention wear and tear would reduce the published nits.

Citation needed. I got a 4k screen back in 2014 with 300 nits and covering 93% sRGB according to reviews. It works like it did on day one and unless I use it in bright sunlight without curtains I never even use 100% brightness, so much for your wear and tear claims. It is accurate enough for my hobby editing requirements and nobody who actually edits does that at 300 nits or above. After calibration you'll usually end up with 100-150 nits.

Your entire thread is based on assumptions you pulled out of thin air. And that 4k monitor has survived three Macs and still works just fine with my current M1 Max. Few people replace their computer every year, but many replace it after 3-6 years.

Physically speaking back then miniDisplay port was used 10 years ago and was replaced

What are you even talking about? Every monitor today supports the DisplayPort protocol, except for Apple's two monitors they all have a DP input port as well. And the USB-C adapter cables are passive, meaning these are just as cheap as any other display cables and are really just that, simple cables. Suggesting that DisplayPort is a thing of the past is plain wrong.

 

[Longplays]

Citation needed. I got a 4k screen back in 2014 with 300 nits and covering 93% sRGB according to reviews. It works like it did on day one and unless I use it in bright sunlight without curtains I never even use 100% brightness, so much for your wear and tear claims. It is accurate enough for my hobby editing requirements and nobody who actually edits does that at 300 nits or above. After calibration you'll usually end up with 100-150 nits.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/is-it-bad-to-have-screen-at-constant-full-brightness-retina.1393345/

Can your Android start losing its brightness over time? My Android is on full brightness all the time, but does not look the same anymore.

Answer (1 of 2): Yes, I've been using my Asus phone with LCD display for more than 4 years and , I've always kept brightness at lowest levels possible, but still nowadays when I turn full brightness mode on it feels like 25% increase, not 100% as it used to be and smartphone is still doing fine ...

www.quora.com

Does the screen brightness decrease the o… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

Your entire thread is based on assumptions you pulled out of thin air.

Just let you know the way you write is a tad hostile. I hope it isn't your intent.

What are you even talking about? Every monitor today supports the DisplayPort protocol, except for Apple's two monitors they all have a DP input port as well. And the USB-C adapter cables are passive, meaning these are just as cheap as any other display cables and are really just that, simple cables. Suggesting that DisplayPort is a thing of the past is plain wrong.

The point I am making is you'd need a dongle to connect the two or a change of cables with one end being USB-C form factor and the other end miniDP.

I am pointing out the physical difference after 1 decade of use.

My 2012 iMac's display's is showing dimming LEDs at the edges that is visibly less bright than the center. In other words brightness isn't near 99% uniform from corner to corner, edge to edge, bottom to top, left to right or whichever orientation it may be.

 

[Isamilis]

When Apple announced the 2021 Studio Display 27" & 2021 Mac Studio they neglected to include the replacement of the 2020 iMac 27". That iMac is now 34 months old.

Apple & many others said that you are better off with a separate 27" display + Mac Studio/mini as the monitor wouldn't be "wasted" if you upgrade.

Now there are users out there that replace every refresh but there are others who'd only replace way longer than that like say after the final macOS Security Update was released. This typically occurs nearly 10 years after that Mac was 1st shipped.

After a decade that display would be half the display resolution, half nits of brightness and color space of currently sold displays. Not to mention wear and tear would reduce the published nits.

Example:

2012 iMac 27" has a 2.5K resolution display at 300 nits of brightness with a non-P3 color space. The 2021 Studio Display has a 5K resolution at 600 nits of brightness with a P3 color space. If the 2012 "display" was separate from the "Mac" would you still continue using it for another decade?

It would be showing its age by now after an average daily use of ~8hrs/day for ~3,650 days.

Physically speaking back then miniDisplay port was used 10 years ago and was replaced shortly after by USB-C ports that is being used today. Will USB-C form factor be used by 2033 or 2043?

Yes, we can use dongles but the point is it is that old. Maybe after a decade's use an upgrade is in order? It would be like using VGA or DVI in 2023.

That's half true. In case of 2020 iMac 27", it depends on whether you need better display than display in the iMac after, said, 10 years - or you just need faster cpu, bigger ram and storage? If the latter, separating display is worthy, especially if the needs is for family PC only.

 

[Jay Tee]

If you don't need a new computer, don't buy a new computer.


Once you've decided you have to get one, you'll want to know how much to spend: and this should be the essence of what the OP wants to know.

Well, this is the exact same question Apple has to figure for us: nobody wants to buy a computer just to replace it in 6-months. You don't want that, and Apple doesn't want that. Nobody wants that, except YouTube reviewers, possibly. We're all paying Apple to figure out these questions for us so we can get on with our lives and not pontificate such issues; and Apple's in the best position to do it.

My advice: unless you want to fiddle about with the internals and do your own spec upgrades, get an iMac. Don't get the base model, but step up the RAM and SSD space. Spend the rest of your budget on the unit with the best screen you can get. It's very difficult to go wrong from there.

 

[Longplays]

That's half true. In case of 2020 iMac 27", it depends on whether you need better display than display in the iMac after, said, 10 years - or you just need faster cpu, bigger ram and storage? If the latter, separating display is worthy, especially if the needs is for family PC only.

After a decade's use other things break as well.

Nits of the display will reduce over time. Sometimes not uniformly.

Another would be busted left, right and other speakers.

When Apple stops officially sending macOS Security Updates then it is time to replace for the purpose of preventive maintenance.

That's a decade's use. Time to replace everything.

Yes, you can use hacked macOS for unsupported hardware but many are uninterested in doing that and just want to replace the whole kit.

 

[Warped9]

I upgraded my 2011 21.5 iMac rather than replace it because, at the time, it was cheaper to upgrade then replace it with the computer spec’d the way I wanted it. Even today the computer satisfies my needs and uses well. My previous Mac was about six years before I replaced it even though it was still functioning without issue. For me this durability is a significant part of why I remain an Apple user. Based on this experience I’m expecting/hoping my next Mac (which I expect to get within maybe a year) will hopefully last several years to a decade.

I feely admit I am most likely not Apple’s ideal customer. My iPhones and iPads are replaced about every five years. My desktop is not used heavily every day and eight hours a day—it’s not a work computer. I also think I’m not a good candidate for buying extended warranties because I tend to take good care of my things and I’ve had very few issues and none to make me regret not buying an extended warranty.

I work in retail selling computers including Mac and through qualifying I see all kinds of varying experiences, but there are some commonalities. Five years does look to be the average service life for most people, based on their machines becoming troublesome, too slow or inoperative. While there are exceptions the Macs tend to last longer, but they too can hit their limits. I’ve met a number of older iMac users who never considered upgrading their machines even by just adding RAM. Indeed this idea never occurs for a lot of people, Mac or PC—the mindset is generally use it until it breaks or is annoyingly unusable.

Apple must know this and realistically understands most people are not going to replace devices with every refresh or every few years.

 

[mcnallym]

When Apple stops officially sending macOS Security Updates then it is time to replace for the purpose of preventive maintenance.

That's a decade's use. Time to replace everything.

you replace when Apple stops sending macOS Security Updates so that you aren’t running software with unpatched vulnerabilities.

 

[cateye]

Forgive me (or not, I don't mind), but this reads like some kind of specious, invented consumer drama and I can't for the life of me fathom what your end goal is. Your argument is a strawman full of unsupported statements about what may or may not change technologically and some magical unrepresented audience who hang on to computers for 10 years "until the last security update" as if that kind of focused attention to a fungible good's lifespan were an attainable, reasonable goal and reflective of natural consumer mindset. You give the buying public far too much credit for acting on efficiency rather than desire. That a random consumer electronics widget company could support a site like "MacRumors" attracting thousands of people who would self-identify as "fans" rather than just "buyers" should be evidence enough that this is not a relationship based on rational efficiencies.

The Faustian bargain of being an Apple user is they don't cover all use cases, or even most use cases. It's a matter of choosing among a narrow band of options that is the "least worst" for your given preferences and use case when you are ready to buy. At this point in time, Apple has chosen to move away from All-In-One computers. They are a corporation, and as such, do so because it benefits them, not because they're acting in reflection or representation of user's needs. Apple exists, as a deeply marketing-driven company, to invent need and desire and push an audience toward it. Don't be so surprised if you overlay your own approach to that producer-buyer relationship and it seems skewed and weighed in favor of the producer: Apple manages the relationship in that way on purpose because it maximizes their profit and efficiency, not yours. As they should, as any corporation should. Quelle surprise.

 

[Xials]

As I started this thread so naturally no one's saying that but the other thread said it.

I started this thread to point out this specific use case that not everyone wants to upgrade that quickly as many on MR think their use case is identical to everyone elses.

To many an Apple device is like a TV, HVAC, refrigerator or a washer/dryer where in your replace every 1-2 decades like say a car.

Yes but you are talking about decades here.
Yes. Generally speaking, it’s not unreasonable for Apple to expect people will want to replace their machine within 10 years. Especially because the vast majority of people buying them use them for some sort of work.
Not to mention that of ALL major hardware and software companies, Apple is the leader in the length of time in which they support hardware.

 

[snak-atak]

When Apple announced the 2021 Studio Display 27" & 2021 Mac Studio they neglected to include the replacement of the 2020 iMac 27". That iMac is now 34 months old.

Apple & many others said that you are better off with a separate 27" display + Mac Studio/mini as the monitor wouldn't be "wasted" if you upgrade.

Now there are users out there that replace every refresh but there are others who'd only replace way longer than that like say after the final macOS Security Update was released. This typically occurs nearly 10 years after that Mac was 1st shipped.

After a decade that display would be half the display resolution, half nits of brightness and color space of currently sold displays. Not to mention wear and tear would reduce the published nits.

Example:

2012 iMac 27" has a 2.5K resolution display at 300 nits of brightness with a non-P3 color space. The 2021 Studio Display has a 5K resolution at 600 nits of brightness with a P3 color space. If the 2012 "display" was separate from the "Mac" would you still continue using it for another decade?

It would be showing its age by now after an average daily use of ~8hrs/day for ~3,650 days.

Physically speaking back then miniDisplay port was used 10 years ago and was replaced shortly after by USB-C ports that is being used today. Will USB-C form factor be used by 2033 or 2043?

Yes, we can use dongles but the point is it is that old. Maybe after a decade's use an upgrade is in order? It would be like using VGA or DVI in 2023.

The biggest pain I had with my 2012 27" iMac was when I had to take it to the Apple Store for a repair. If I recall it had something to do with the power supply. The screen wise fine. Anyway, the store was in the middle of a mall, and I had to haul that thing from the parking lot and halfway through the mall to get to the store. I then had to replay that scenario in reverse when I had to pick it up after repairs a couple days later. Besides its size, the weight distribution of that machine makes it awkward to carry.

I loved my iMac, but will never buy an AIO ever again. It's just too big and bulky for my taste. Since then, I converted to a Mac Mini, and now a Mac Studio, both attached to a pair of 27" monitors, the same monitors which I will probably continue to use for years to come.

 

[Robert.Walter]

When Apple announced the 2021 Studio Display 27" & 2021 Mac Studio they neglected to include the replacement of the 2020 iMac 27". That iMac is now 34 months old.

Apple & many others said that you are better off with a separate 27" display + Mac Studio/mini as the monitor wouldn't be "wasted" if you upgrade.

Now there are users out there that replace every refresh but there are others who'd only replace way longer than that like say after the final macOS Security Update was released. This typically occurs nearly 10 years after that Mac was 1st shipped.

After a decade that display would be half the display resolution, half nits of brightness and color space of currently sold displays. Not to mention wear and tear would reduce the published nits.

Example:

2012 iMac 27" has a 2.5K resolution display at 300 nits of brightness with a non-P3 color space. The 2021 Studio Display has a 5K resolution at 600 nits of brightness with a P3 color space. If the 2012 "display" was separate from the "Mac" would you still continue using it for another decade?

It would be showing its age by now after an average daily use of ~8hrs/day for ~3,650 days.

Physically speaking back then miniDisplay port was used 10 years ago and was replaced shortly after by USB-C ports that is being used today. Will USB-C form factor be used by 2033 or 2043?

Yes, we can use dongles but the point is it is that old. Maybe after a decade's use an upgrade is in order? It would be like using VGA or DVI in 2023.

Using my T-bolt display now w my M2 MBA via TB1 to TB3 dongle and it’s doing just fine. (Previously used w a MBA11 then a MM12).

Use it in my home office. No problems with resolution, brightness or sound.

Not showing its age except for the jacket coming off the signal cable and that’s not affecting performance.

Paid 1000$ for it, what, 11 or 12 years ago; that’s like 80-90$/year.