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aperfectcircle

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 9, 2020
60
135
I'd like to try and inject some sanity into the conversation about M1 Pro/Max versus M2 Pro/Max, and hopefully alleviate some concern that some seem to be having over the upcoming upgrade to the MacBook Pro line.
  • Stop obsessing over "benchmarks".
  • The M2 will be better than the M1, irrespective of how "little" that improvement might be.
  • If you are looking to upgrade to Apple Silicon, the M2 generation will be better than the M1, but that doesn't mean the M1 isn't worth considering if you can get a good deal
  • If you have an M1 generation MBP you don't need to upgrade - what are you chasing here? Your MBP is already an insanely good machine and if it's not meeting expectations you probably need more RAM or storage.
  • Apple was never going to introduce an M2 Pro/Max line on TSMC N3 - the architecture was built for N5E/N4.
  • Stop being a "whiny Wills" that the leaked benchmarks aren't REVOLUTIONARY from the M1. We never expected them to be after the M1 to M2.
If you're that worried that a PC is better for you with the upcoming M2 MacBook Pro line, then go get a damn PC laptop. Apple has made the call to move to its own silicon, and it's already bloody fantastic. It'll only keep getting better. If a "15%(?)" CPU benchmark score increase doesn't satisfy you then your current M1-based MBP is clearly enough for you so stick with it.
 

russell_314

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2019
5,247
7,464
USA
Stop obsessing over "benchmarks".
This is one thing I’ve never understood. I’ve seen so many people here talk about benchmarks, but when you ask them what they’re actually going to use the computer for they either don’t answer or it’s for some simple task like web browsing.

You’re not going to notice the difference browsing the web on a M1 versus an M3 Ultra Pro Uber Max Extra 😂. If your hobby is eking out high scores in benchmarks, then get something you can tinker with and build a PC.
 

aperfectcircle

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 9, 2020
60
135
This is one thing I’ve never understood. I’ve seen so many people here talk about benchmarks, but when you ask them what they’re actually going to use the computer for they either don’t answer or it’s for some simple task like web browsing.

You’re not going to notice the difference browsing the web on a M1 versus an M3 Ultra Pro Uber Max Extra 😂. If your hobby is eking out high scores in benchmarks, then get something you can tinker with and build a PC.
The benchmark obsession is rather foolish. I have a MBP M1 Max 24core 14" and it is by the far the best machine I have ever had. It runs insanely well. I've yet to throw anything at it that has made it stutter. A machine that has ~12% single core and ~20% multicore improvement might look nice on paper, but it's hardly going to be something I notice in day to day. If you have an M1X machine, you already have an amazing machine - you don't need an M2X machine. If you're stuck on an Intel machine, then sure, make the cost/performance decision to upgrade.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
71,210
40,046
Stop obsessing over "benchmarks".
Everyone falls into this, I know I have and the reasons are many
People want to validate the computer they bought, they want to validate the brand they want. Brand Loyalty is at an all time high. I see people all over the interwebs bend over backwards defending apple even when it doesn't make sense.

Benchmarks are the equivalent of waving a male appendix.

I will say that benchmarks can be helpful for purchase decisions, and for hobbyists that upgrade/mod their PCs its very helpful as its a means to measure their changes. This doesn't apply to Macs though simply because you have no way of upgrading your computer after purchase.


The M2 will be better than the M1, irrespective of how "little" that improvement might be.
Yep, but I think one issue, is that both AMD and Intel have released new generations of their CPUs and in both cases the improvements are significant. In Intel's case their last 2 or 3 generations have each show significant progress. Conscience or subconscious there is a concern of apple falling behind imo.


If you're that worried that a PC is better for you with the upcoming M2 MacBook Pro line, then go get a damn PC laptop
I'm a big believer in using the right tool for the job. In some situations, a PC is a better option, in others, the Mac. I agree, don't get so hung up on a single metric, that you miss the big picture. Macs have a lot of advantages, and if those advantages line up with your priorities and needs then don't worry about if a Lenovo is 5 points faster in geekbench or something like that.

I've personally been on a journey to enjoy contentment. Enjoy what I have and not worry about what I don't have. I far from achieving that goal, but I think people need to think about that ideal as well. Just enjoy what you have.
 

pshufd

macrumors G3
Oct 24, 2013
8,833
13,663
New Hampshire
I go by benchmarks when I'm looking for something that I'm not familiar with as it gets me into the ballpark. For actual usability, though, there's nothing like getting your hands on one and trying it out. The next best thing is to find someone else with a similar workload and asking them for hardware recommendations.

I am quite happy with the combination of MacBook Pro 16 + Mac Studio. I can do what I need to at my desk or on the road. The M1 mini wasn't enough but I bought one in 2021 just to see how good it was and it just has limitations. Am I concerned about the M2? No. I delayed upgrading MacBooks from 2016 to 2021 and it was worth the wait. I do think that the M3 will be very nice but I don't see buying one unless my workload changes dramatically. I usually like to keep new Macs running for 10 years. That may get longer with Apple Silicon as I think that things are less likely to break on Apple Silicon Macs because of the lower heat levels.
 

hoo-man-b-ing

Cancelled
Mar 13, 2022
116
105
Agreed with the above general points. As always, buy what you need when you need it and don’t fret/obsess over a future that may never come. Plus, there’s both the opportunity cost of waiting an indeterminate time (ie., think of all the amazing stuff you could have built/done on the currently available product while you were waiting) and the slippery slope of release estimates (e.g., M2 going from mid 2022, to Oct 2022, to Nov 2022, to Q1 2023 to….?)

That said, I’d also like to add something that I feel is often lost in these discussions:
1. This is one benchmark and an unverified one at that, meaning it could be from an actual M2 Max that had other processes running or it could be a forged result (for the lulz, etc.) or it could be a pristine M2 Max running with no background processes.
2. Based on the M1 to M2 comparisons, the biggest gains we’d expect to see are on the GPU side, which this does not cover.
3. Additionally, unless it starts adding new measurements, GeekBench is going to become a less meaningful benchmark over time. For example, we know that the M2 added a ProRes encode and decode engine and added hardware acceleration for ProRes RAW, neither of which (to my knowledge) are measured by GeekBench. It’s reasonable to assume that an M2 Max would add some multiple of these capabilities (e.g., 1 to 2 ProRes encoders/decoders), which could significantly impact some workloads. Plus, I expect Apple will continue to add these dedicated capabilities at a hardware level (just as they did with the Neural Engine) because they’re in a unique position to do so, differentiating them in the marketplace.
4. This and likely most other benchmarks don’t matter to you since they only serve as a rough proxy measurement of potential performance. What does matter is your specific workload (apps and data) and use case (where/how you’ll use it). For example, I have an M1 Max MacBook Pro and while I‘m often tempted by the M1 Ultra or what the future may bring, it’s helpful to bring it back down to reality for me by looking at measuring what I actually do. For example, I currently have a small, hobby Xcode project (Swift/SwiftUI) that builds and runs all of its tests in a whopping 7s. Say it grows 100x and takes 700s. Even if the Ultra scaled linearly (it doesn’t) and cut it down to 350s (~6 minutes vs ~12 minutes), that doesn’t really change my experience. I’d still likely check email, get a cup of coffee, stretch my legs, whatever during that time. For me, I generally wait until something offers a 4x improvement or until it actually starts to bottleneck my productivity. (Or, let’s be honest, when I just really, really want one.)

As for comparisons to AMD/Intel, since I’m not tempted to maintain a Hackintosh or run something other than macOS, I just don’t focus on them, particularly for my mobility focused workload. Plus, Intel’s past shenanigans have adeed them to my “do not support“ list. However, there are valid scenarios for considering them (e.g., gaming, large ML workloads, etc.), so if that’s one of your primary concerns, by all means consider them, or cloud-based resources if appropriate.
 

wilberforce

macrumors 68030
Aug 15, 2020
2,713
2,919
SF Bay Area
Benchmarks are sometimes useful. Especially when people start throwing around broad unsupported generalizations like "Intel is slow." Quoting a few benchmarks can shut down such unsupported claims. (Or maybe not. Some people are stubborn in their beliefs.)
 
Last edited:

BootsWalking

macrumors 68020
Feb 1, 2014
2,227
13,980
Yep, don't let research and relative value get in the way of your impulse to buy an expensive computing device that you probably don't need in the first place.
 

Mr. Dee

macrumors 601
Dec 4, 2003
4,773
8,904
Jamaica
For what I do these days, the M1 Pro and Max are overkill, but it would be nice to have. I really wanted a larger screen MacBook Pro though, so that would be my only reason for upgrading. But thats just a want rather than a need. I probably will be in the market for new Mac around 2025, so, I will likely be upgrading to the 16 inch when its time for me to do so. But the performance of my M1 2020 MBP is more than enough for what I do. I even edited my friends wedding videos on it and it did the job just fine.
 
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pshufd

macrumors G3
Oct 24, 2013
8,833
13,663
New Hampshire
For what I do these days, the M1 Pro and Max are overkill, but it would be nice to have. I really wanted a larger screen MacBook Pro though, so that would be my only reason for upgrading. But thats just a want rather than a need. I probably will be in the market for new Mac around 2025, so, I will likely be upgrading to the 16 inch when its time for me to do so. But the performance of my M1 2020 MBP is more than enough for what I do. I even edited my friends wedding videos on it and it did the job just fine.

The only thing that would interest me would be an M3 MacBook Air 15 as may be enough for mobile use. I like my M1 Pro MacBook Pro but sometimes I'd like something smaller and lighter.
 
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LibertySound

macrumors newbie
Sep 27, 2022
9
14
I'd like to try and inject some sanity into the conversation about M1 Pro/Max versus M2 Pro/Max, and hopefully alleviate some concern that some seem to be having over the upcoming upgrade to the MacBook Pro line.
  • Stop obsessing over "benchmarks".
  • The M2 will be better than the M1, irrespective of how "little" that improvement might be.
  • If you are looking to upgrade to Apple Silicon, the M2 generation will be better than the M1, but that doesn't mean the M1 isn't worth considering if you can get a good deal
  • If you have an M1 generation MBP you don't need to upgrade - what are you chasing here? Your MBP is already an insanely good machine and if it's not meeting expectations you probably need more RAM or storage.
  • Apple was never going to introduce an M2 Pro/Max line on TSMC N3 - the architecture was built for N5E/N4.
  • Stop being a "whiny Wills" that the leaked benchmarks aren't REVOLUTIONARY from the M1. We never expected them to be after the M1 to M2.
If you're that worried that a PC is better for you with the upcoming M2 MacBook Pro line, then go get a damn PC laptop. Apple has made the call to move to its own silicon, and it's already bloody fantastic. It'll only keep getting better. If a "15%(?)" CPU benchmark score increase doesn't satisfy you then your current M1-based MBP is clearly enough for you so stick with it.
You gotta stop telling people how to think. Owner of a M1 Pro since feb barely use it until I have mobile work
 

MauiPa

macrumors 68040
Apr 18, 2018
3,247
4,783
Everyone falls into this, I know I have and the reasons are many
People want to validate the computer they bought, they want to validate the brand they want. Brand Loyalty is at an all time high. I see people all over the interwebs bend over backwards defending apple even when it doesn't make sense.

Benchmarks are the equivalent of waving a male appendix.

I will say that benchmarks can be helpful for purchase decisions, and for hobbyists that upgrade/mod their PCs its very helpful as its a means to measure their changes. This doesn't apply to Macs though simply because you have no way of upgrading your computer after purchase.



Yep, but I think one issue, is that both AMD and Intel have released new generations of their CPUs and in both cases the improvements are significant. In Intel's case their last 2 or 3 generations have each show significant progress. Conscience or subconscious there is a concern of apple falling behind imo.



I'm a big believer in using the right tool for the job. In some situations, a PC is a better option, in others, the Mac. I agree, don't get so hung up on a single metric, that you miss the big picture. Macs have a lot of advantages, and if those advantages line up with your priorities and needs then don't worry about if a Lenovo is 5 points faster in geekbench or something like that.

I've personally been on a journey to enjoy contentment. Enjoy what I have and not worry about what I don't have. I far from achieving that goal, but I think people need to think about that ideal as well. Just enjoy what you have.
"Benchmarks are the equivalent of waving a male appendix." A vestigial organ with no sex? is there a female appendix?
 

h.gilbert

macrumors member
Nov 17, 2022
47
85
Bordeaux
I'd like to try and inject some sanity into the conversation about M1 Pro/Max versus M2 Pro/Max, and hopefully alleviate some concern that some seem to be having over the upcoming upgrade to the MacBook Pro line.
  • Stop obsessing over "benchmarks".
  • The M2 will be better than the M1, irrespective of how "little" that improvement might be.
  • If you are looking to upgrade to Apple Silicon, the M2 generation will be better than the M1, but that doesn't mean the M1 isn't worth considering if you can get a good deal
  • If you have an M1 generation MBP you don't need to upgrade - what are you chasing here? Your MBP is already an insanely good machine and if it's not meeting expectations you probably need more RAM or storage.
  • Apple was never going to introduce an M2 Pro/Max line on TSMC N3 - the architecture was built for N5E/N4.
  • Stop being a "whiny Wills" that the leaked benchmarks aren't REVOLUTIONARY from the M1. We never expected them to be after the M1 to M2.
If you're that worried that a PC is better for you with the upcoming M2 MacBook Pro line, then go get a damn PC laptop. Apple has made the call to move to its own silicon, and it's already bloody fantastic. It'll only keep getting better. If a "15%(?)" CPU benchmark score increase doesn't satisfy you then your current M1-based MBP is clearly enough for you so stick with it.

Threads like this exactly highlight the problems here on Macrumors.

1. Who do you think you're getting at with this? The vast majority of us here on this forum are the exactly the type of nerdy folk (no offence) who care about all these little details.

2. What kind of vested interest in Apple do you have that gets you so worked up to the point that you're actively calling people names when they say something critical about a product?

We're all in a little bubble here. Let people obsess over benchmarks if they want.
 
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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
6,453
5,073
Threads like this exactly highlight the problems here on Macrumors.

1. Who do you think you're getting at with this? The vast majority of us here on this forum are the exactly the type of nerdy folk (no offence) who care about all these little details.

2. What kind of vested interest in Apple do you have that gets you so worked up to the point that you're actively calling people names when they say something critical about a product?

We're all in a little bubble here. Let people obsess over benchmarks if they want.
We don't need threads like Apple is lost, or Apple should wait for Intel's benchmarks before designing their chips, or Apple needs to step up because 13th gen is DESTROYING even leaked M2 benchmarks etc.

Discussion topics are important. Talking about "how amazing the 13th gen Intel is" is a different conversation than "Apple is in trouble".
 
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Leon Ze Professional

macrumors 6502
Sep 23, 2021
383
1,774
Thanks I'm one of those deliberating on a purchase. I think the thing that concerns me the most is how long the M1 will be supported given Apples recent fiasco regarding stage manager on the ipads for pre M1 chips.

Also considering the M1 Pro/Max are 13 months old at this point in time. No argument over the abilities of these chips and what they can handle.
 

Populus

macrumors 68040
Aug 24, 2012
3,054
3,969
Spain, Europe
Benchmarks are the equivalent of waving a male appendix.
1669937735416.png
 

CalMin

Contributor
Nov 8, 2007
1,233
1,615
OP - great post!

Couldn't agree more. If you're crushing an M1Pro/Max and need more performance then an M2 Pro/Max ain't gonna help. Firstly - what the hell are you doing??? (I've only ever heard the fans spin up once on my M1 Pro). Secondly, if you are disappointed with the performance then you need to get an M1 Ultra or wait for the Mac Pro.

Apple Silicon is the real deal for me. I have an 14" M1 Pro and an 8GB M2 Air. Both are extraordinary. I can't get the M2 to slow down under normal workloads and even so, what is an extra 30 seconds or so for anyone who isn't paid by the hour for their computing work?
 

Wokis

macrumors 6502a
Jul 3, 2012
763
867
Stockholm, Sweden
Kudos to OP for owning the M1 but still having a sober outlook on the whole situation.

I think a lot would be different if these chips would've been called say the M14 vs the M15 (corresponding to the A-chips they're based upon). An A14 owner knows the A15 isn't primarily meant for them.

Now the "M2" sounds like "double-M1" and people often seem to infer that a 15-20% performance boost isn't good enough, even though historically it's quite a decent leap.
 

ihakim

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2012
195
157
Stanford, CA
my reasons for telling folks to get a m1 14 or 16 now vs wait fro the m2 variant is cause these m1 are on massive discounts lately, when m2 pro comes out, they gonna be msrp for at least 1-2 years while a m1 max 64gb 14inch was going for sale at 2499, a massive 1300 off msrp.
Umm, where are you seeing that configuration $1300 off? I have been keeping an eye on prices and haven't seen that anywhere. I don't believe you.
 
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Choco Taco

macrumors regular
Nov 23, 2022
235
333
I think anybody will be plenty happy with either one at this point. The M1 Pro and Max are still incredible machines and will be for years to come.

I'm still eagerly awaiting the Mac Pro announcement though.
 
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