iFixit Shares 2019 Mac Pro Teardown: 'A Masterclass in Repairability'

[PickUrPoison]

Why then can Lenovo and every other PC maker build expandable desktops for under a thousand bucks but Apple would have to ask $5k for it? I'm not asking for a workstation-class PC with RDIMMs and Xeon chips, I am asking for a prosumer desktop with slots and NO ADHESIVE.

Same answer. There’s just not much demand. 80% of Mac customers buy laptops. Another 10-15% buy iMac. That leaves 5-10% of Mac sales—less than 2 million units—spread across Mac mini, iMac Pro and Mac Pro. Low unit sales lead to higher costs.

Apple chooses not to play in the cut-throat, low-margin hardware market. You might as well ask why they don’t make $50 iPhones to compete with cheap Android phones. Or $300 laptops like the crap you see at Best Buy advertised in the Sunday flyer.

 

[0x0x0x0]

Going to Apple to buy these machines retail without a supplie contract in place is foolish at best. The prices you see on their website are retail prices. There is no supplier management professional worth their salt that will let that dollar value stand. If your IT is starting negotiations with a vendor at the RETAIL price... then you’re already doing the organization a disservice. I am pretty sure the vendor was laughing all the way to the bank.

Dude, do you even read bother reading what you're replying to? What worms in your head could possibly lead to a conclusion that we start with retail pricing if we got 32GB DDR4 LRDIMMs a few years ago from vendor at £100 each?! IT get a budget, then we maximise what we can get within that budget, we never exhaust it and "keep it in the bank" for unexpected expenditure!

 

[PickUrPoison]

<snip>
Anywho, that still doesn't address the other avenues of internal storage upgrades. And can you boot the OS off the internal SATA port or other PCI based storage? If memory serves you could boot from external drives as recently as a few years ago, so if you can boot from a different drive on a PCI expansion card then how does the T2 relate to that?

I can’t imagine Apple would prevent booting from any internal drive. You can still boot off external drives, T2 doesn’t prevent that unless you choose that option in the Startup Security Utility.

 

[thevault]

Nah started with an Apple II Plus. Wrote the code for the world’s first PC-based point of sale system, complete with a solenoid-controlled cash drawer that popped open after the payment was tendered (via a custom interface card that went into one of the slots). It had a pen-type barcode reader that we OEM’ed from HP. Ordering, inventory, sales, barcoded price tags printed out on an IDS 460 “Paper Tiger” printer. All within a maxed out 48k of RAM lol. First job after high school, 1982, I was 18. Good times

But I plan on being around a good while longer as well, so I’m sure I’ll see the a few more Mac Pros. This won’t be the last.

I forgot to use "I" in front of the statement. I'm not agreeing with many with the T2 lock down. Apple is locking down all products but a MP is not a iPhone or a laptop in a mobile open form and purchasing an $8000+ MP I should have full control including upgrades/changes.

I can’t imagine Apple would prevent booting from any internal drive. You can still boot off external drives, T2 doesn’t prevent that unless you choose that option in the Startup Security Utility.

View attachment 883816

T2/Apple still involved. Also, need more definition on all selections.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I forgot to use "I" in front of the statement. I'm not agreeing with many with the T2 lock down. Apple is locking down all products but a MP is not a iPhone or a laptop in a mobile open form and purchasing an $8000+ MP I should have full control including upgrades/changes.


T2/Apple still involved.

Apple controls the boot process, of course. But you can boot off any drive you want. The Apple SSD is encrypted, and if it’s repaired or replaced, Apple needs to update the encryption key.

Is that the “lockdown” that concerns you?

 

[thevault]

Yes
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There should be an option if one needs this over regulated security. Now I have to purchase extra components on top of the $8000+ .

 

[PickUrPoison]

There should be an option if one needs this over regulated security. Now I have to purchase extra components on top of the $8000+ .

Gotcha. Well there seem to be relatively few who consider the privacy and security provided by Apple’s current hardware encryption of the SSD drive to be over-regulation, and most of them seem not to be actual customers.

Unfortunately, I don’t think Apple’s going to reduce data security for the vast majority of users to accommodate you. There are lots of options available if data security isn’t a concern, and some of them can even save you lots of money over buying Apple’s expensive, but encrypted, SSD.

If you post in the Mac forums I’m sure someone will be able to help you out. You should also contact Apple and make sure you give them your feedback.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Dude, do you even read bother reading what you're replying to? What worms in your head could possibly lead to a conclusion that we start with retail pricing if we got 32GB DDR4 LRDIMMs a few years ago from vendor at £100 each?! IT get a budget, then we maximise what we can get within that budget, we never exhaust it and "keep it in the bank" for unexpected expenditure!

In case you missed it earlier, I have lost this discussion and I concede. You are speaking from experience where IT can competently do the job of IT PLUS supplier management and contracts and legal and finance. As I have no experience where that has worked that way (companies I’ve worked in have always had those as separate entities) I concede that, from your perspective, you must be right.

 

[thevault]

Gotcha. Well there seem to be relatively few who consider the privacy and security provided by Apple’s current hardware encryption of the SSD drive to be over-regulation, and most of them seem not to be actual customers.

Unfortunately, I don’t think Apple’s going to reduce data security for the vast majority of users to accommodate you. There are lots of options available if data security isn’t a concern, and some of them can even save you lots of money over buying Apple’s expensive, but encrypted, SSD.

If you post in the Mac forums I’m sure someone will be able to help you out. You should also contact Apple and make sure you give them your feedback.

Again, this is not a iPhone or laptop but desktop which is contained in a closed off environment. Encrypts your drive, Secure Boot makes sure that only a legitimate, trusted operating system loads at startup, encrypted storage and hardens the Mac against a range of sophisticated attacks, sorts of things that a government might carry out if one were to seize a computer.

Vast majority of users don't need it and don't want it but are still purchasing MP7.1 including me. There's other reasons for the placement of the T2 chip.

 

[PickUrPoison]

<snip>
Vast majority of users don't need it and don't want it but are still purchasing MP7.1 including me. There's other reasons for the placement of the T2 chip.

I’ve seen zero support for that claim.

I don’t understand why you don’t want the Apple SSD encrypted if you’re concerned a government may have some reason to seize your computer.

What does “There's other reasons for the placement of the T2 chip” mean. Good reasons? Bad reasons? Are you frightened of something or do you like the T2? Maybe I’m slow but I don’t understand what issue you’re trying to raise here 🤷‍♂️

 

[fairuz]

Hmm.... 33% thinker: 7.6mm vs 10.7mm... but wait... 1440mah vs 2000mah battery! So the thickness/weight was not on the repairablity but in... the battery: the thing that people actually DO want! It didn't sell because Apple had better marketing, the camera still is on par and even better in some cases than XR

In the iPhone 5 days, Android and the other OSs were really third world, so that's probably the reason. Nobody cares about the specs, especially when it's the battery being measured in ambiguous units like amp-hours.

 

[deconstruct60]

I hear I guess my point is that it’s hardly the outdated tech OP was trying to imply. What’s newer that Apple could have used? Maybe there’s something out there but I’m unaware of what it would be. If you’re using the latest product it’s hard to fault them too much.
...

I think more than a few folks just want 'latest' instead of 'latest in the same class'. There is no "big card' latest for AMD, but their mid-range latest is pretty close to the old "big card" and cheaper. So the banging of the drums is for faster and cheaper. They would have taken a slightly slower and $900-1,200 cheaper card ( a sub $2,000 card that doesn't exist ...... yet).

I suspect the folks pounding the drums on that "and cheaper" part will be disappointed in the W5700X as it is not likely to be gamer mid range market priced at all. ( probably pretty close to $1K ). But it will make the folks happier who are motivated by the "latest tech" .

[ And of course the Navi fans and folks with software stuck eyeball deep in that sticky software pit are unhappy. It is yet another wag their fingers moment. ]

 

[PickUrPoison]

I think more than a few folks just want 'latest' instead of 'latest in the same class'. There is no "big card' latest for AMD, but their mid-range latest is pretty close to the old "big card" and cheaper. So the banging of the drums is for faster and cheaper. They would have taken a slightly slower and $900-1,200 cheaper card ( a sub $2,000 card that doesn't exist ...... yet).

I suspect the folks pounding the drums on that "and cheaper" part will be disappointed in the W5700X as it is not likely to be gamer mid range market priced at all. ( probably pretty close to $1K ). But it will make the folks happier who are motivated by the "latest tech" .

[ And of course the Navi fans and folks with software stuck eyeball deep in that sticky software pit are unhappy. It is yet another wag their fingers moment. ]

Yes, there’s no doubt some always want something that doesn’t even exist lol. But you can’t buy something that’s not for sale.

As I occasionally remind fans of 3.5/4.0” phones—and the perpetually disappointed fans wanting the mythical xMac—you can’t always get what you want, even when you’re willing to pay for it.

I think your price estimate is correct, we’ll probably see something like +$600/+1,600 for the one/two of them.

 

[0x0x0x0]

In the iPhone 5 days, Android and the other OSs were really third world, so that's probably the reason. Nobody cares about the specs, especially when it's the battery being measured in ambiguous units like amp-hours.

Precisely the reason why Apple gets away with charging an arm and a leg for yesteryear tech and numbnuts keep flocking for more!

 

[Tech198]

Chip creep - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The only snag here would probably be "chip creep" .. and Apple had to do that to CPU..

Although cooling has improved, and less heat/thermals, i doubt its been solved. Cast back to the Amiga days, where there were problems with 'chip creep' (The only good thing about socketed design was its made life easy for those upgrading)

I don't think this will be a smooth run for Apple, as we know anything that "seems too good" often could be, probably not this but other areas..

Nothing would surprise me, once people start using Ma Pro, we'll see the first few hardware issues surface.

I like the high repair-ability, but no one goes from 0 to 60 overnight neither.

 

[deconstruct60]

... "and cheaper" part will be disappointed in the W5700X as it is not likely to be gamer mid range market priced at all. ( probably pretty close to $1K ). ...

I think your price estimate is correct, we’ll probably see something like +$600/+1,600 for the one/two of them.

The AMD Radeon Pro W5700 was introduced at $799.

Apple's W5700X has features that probably put a floor around $799 (even if Apple wrangles some deal).

1. Uses the up-clocked version of the chip. clocked at mainstream 5700 XT rates along with a bump in CUs ( to 40 from 36 over regular 5700 ). The GPU chip has to be binned to a higher degree. That is a $50 gap in the mainstream market.

2. The VRAM is bumped up 8GB to 16GB. Apple surcharge RAM prices that's probably at least another $50.

3. There are two Thunderbolt controllers and all the associated circuits and certifications. $80-100 range at least . (the controllers aren't that expensive. It is all the stuff around).

4. Apple's 2-4 pounds of aluminum heat sink.


So thousand +/- $200 range.

 

[PickUrPoison]

The AMD Radeon Pro W5700 was introduced at $799.

Apple's W5700X has features that probably put a floor around $799 (even if Apple wrangles some deal).

1. Uses the up-clocked version of the chip. clocked at mainstream 5700 XT rates along with a bump in CUs ( to 40 from 36 over regular 5700 ). The GPU chip has to be binned to a higher degree. That is a $50 gap in the mainstream market.

2. The VRAM is bumped up 8GB to 16GB. Apple surcharge RAM prices that's probably at least another $50.

3. There are two Thunderbolt controllers and all the associated circuits and certifications. $80-100 range at least . (the controllers aren't that expensive. It is all the stuff around).

4. Apple's 2-4 pounds of aluminum heat sink.


So thousand +/- $200 range.

$1,000, so a single card would be a +600 upgrade, a pair would be +1,600.

 

[curtvaughan]

Someone’s probably made this point before now, but repairability hurts reliability. If you‘ve ever opened your machine to reseat a DIMM or PCI card, raise your hand 🙋‍♂️


It makes sense that a machine like this would be easily repairable. Most Apple consumers, though, have no interest (or business) digging into the guts of a machine— and certainly not a phone. That doesn’t mean some folks here wouldn’t like to, and some of those might even be capable of it, but for most people removable parts are just one more thing that can go wrong.

If the motherboard and other devices within the Pro box are designed for easy accessibility to internals, there should be no issue with reliability if the tinkerer is reasonably savvy with computer hardware. Memory expansion, SSD/HDD additions/swaps, and installation of PCI expansion cards should be straightforward and fairly simple. I wish more desktops were designed for easy internal access. Devices designed for greater portability, such as laptops, tablets, and phones, will be harder to repair/upgrade just due to the small form factors. It should still be simple to replace/repair memory cards and SSD storage in laptops - gluing/soldering of potentially slotted parts and use of bizarre proprietary screws and nuts are generally unnecessary, and just make user repair/replacement more difficult than need be. My only real gripe with the three iMacs I've owned has been lack of easy accessibility to the parts listed above. It also makes them more difficult to clean/vacuum, leading to premature overheating issues. I hear iMac Pros have a bit easier access to storage and memory than their lesser brethren. To just replace an SSD, HDD, or memory card on the newer (< 5 years) standard iMacs can take 1-3 hours, and most get low repairability ratings by iFixit (1 or 2 out of 10). I applaud Apple for its new Mac Pro design.

 

[5232152]

Kudos to Apple for the new MacPro, it is amazing (and damn well should be)... but "That wasn't so hard"?! Really? Probably hundreds of Apple people worked about three years on this. And they had to double the price of the finished product to get it to this level. Do you actually WANT a phone that costs two to three THOUSAND dollars and a Macbook that STARTS at $3000...?

Yes i do.
Don't let Apple trick you into thinking that it is actually "magic" that the product is repairable and upgradeable.