iFixit Shares M4 MacBook Pro Teardown

[cjsuk]

Let's start with soldered NAND modules. They wear down over time and are very hard replace with new ones.

This one is usually a non issue. People just fail to understand big numbers.

In perspective my 3 year old M1 Pro MacBook Pro I just sold was used constantly for several hours a day doing fragmented small writes (millions of small ones per block) and huge streaming writes (gigabytes). It managed to get to 4% of the total SSD lifespan.

I doubt this is going to be an issue for anyone really. Even our big database servers at work with MLC disks last years with heavy write loads.

As for replacing them it’s not trivial but not impossible. There are many of us who can do it out there but it’s not something I’d be particularly bothered about. Something power related will die first.

 

[macguru9999]

On my positively antiquated M2 Max.

I have an M1 pro with 16gb ram. Using a 2 k external monitor, performance is excellent

 

[Parowdy]

Why would Apple continue to do this? Why put all the wires and stuff infront of the motherboard, let alone connect them to it? I demand easier access to the motherboard, I need to access it at least once a month. It shouldn’t be this complex and tedious.

/s

 

[macguru9999]

Why would Apple continue to do this? Why put all the wires and stuff infront of the motherboard, let alone connect them to it? I demand easier access to the motherboard, I need to access it at least once a month. It shouldn’t be this complex and tedious.

/s

whats the point ? you cannot fix it anyways ...

 

[Parowdy]

whats the point ? you cannot fix it anyways ...

/s stand for sarcasm
And that’s my point. Why does it matter how easily or not you can access a part you can’t do anything with?
I was taking a jab at the article.
I mean, I was literally asking why Apple would connect the cables to the motherboard…

 

[RestlessCaviar]

wish they would use small recessed Allen screws instead of those easy strippable screws on the back cover.

They are pentalobe - as long as you use those, it works fine.

 

[cicalinarrot]

It's mostly terrible for iFixit's business and the whole repair services industry who are backing up the right to repair movement. Other than a narrow enthusiast portion of the market, a quite loud one, no one gives a crap about this. I think the right to repair movement is a net negative if I'm honest - companies are quite happy to cut their warranties short and kick immature, poorly engineered products over the fence for the end users to fix and that is worse for society as a whole. There should be lifecycle and fit for purpose legislation introduced instead which makes the manufacturer look after the product if it fails within its usable lifetime and have fixed price up front quoted repair costs.

As for the technical side, I'm formally qualified to design products like this from an electronics perspective at least and I have little problem with this as well. The majority (95%+) of systems are never upgraded. The majority of systems are never repaired (I would suggest 80%+) and then repairs are mostly mechanical and module replacement which is catered for. The design trade offs are quite ok on that basis because the less mechanical parts, including connectors, that you have the better generally as it leads to a much further out MTTF. The storage MTTF is a non issue these days. That stuff will last longer than the MLCC capacitors on the board which are likely to be the first statistical failure (evidenced from M1 iMac failures I've seen).

The only reason they provide storage on cards in the M4 mac mini is it means they have to carry less hardware configurations in stock on their BTO options which I would suggest probably backfired a little historically and I bet they have a lot of weird non standard configurations that they did not sell.

What *is* a problem with the macbook pros is how they sell the battery bonded to the top case only via self service repair and you can't replace the top case only. That **** has to stop.

Being able to take the drive out if the motherboard dies to save data is a must-have for professionals. I don't want a "pro" machine that is dangerous for my work.
Soldering stuff with the sole purpose of shortening lifespan and making upgrades cost 4 times market's average is just evil to me.

 

[t0rqx]

Why is it “unfortunate” that this is similar to the M3 model and Apple kept the internals the same? Nothing is wrong and nobody was complaining!

They cut down cost on the heatsink with M2, the M4 uses more than double the M1 power usage. The heatsink should have been reinstated to its original size.

 

[FlyingDutch]

This one is usually a non issue. People just fail to understand big numbers.

In perspective my 3 year old M1 Pro MacBook Pro I just sold was used constantly for several hours a day doing fragmented small writes (millions of small ones per block) and huge streaming writes (gigabytes). It managed to get to 4% of the total SSD lifespan.

I doubt this is going to be an issue for anyone really. Even our big database servers at work with MLC disks last years with heavy write loads.

As for replacing them it’s not trivial but not impossible. There are many of us who can do it out there but it’s not something I’d be particularly bothered about. Something power related will die first.

SO you do approve Apple policy. They are making very expensive devices as disposable products.
I strongly disagree.
Even if the NANDs could last for a decade, people should be able to upgrade/replace the SSD in a more reasonable time frame. Same for the battery.

 

[casjohnr]

Being able to take the drive out if the motherboard dies to save data is a must-have for professionals. I don't want a "pro" machine that is dangerous for my work.
Soldering stuff with the sole purpose of shortening lifespan and making upgrades cost 4 times market's average is just evil to me.

If they were "professional" enough they would be smart enough to take regular backups of their data

 

[cjsuk]

Being able to take the drive out if the motherboard dies to save data is a must-have for professionals. I don't want a "pro" machine that is dangerous for my work.
Soldering stuff with the sole purpose of shortening lifespan and making upgrades cost 4 times market's average is just evil to me.

Backups are more important. We have have zero disk failures in the last few years. We have had a lot of lost machines though.

 

[cjsuk]

SO you do approve Apple policy. They are making very expensive devices as disposable products.
I strongly disagree.
Even if the NANDs could last for a decade, people should be able to upgrade/replace the SSD in a more reasonable time frame. Same for the battery.

If you think the NAND is likely to fail first then you know nothing about the current state of electronics or of engineering. The lowly MLCC capacitor, of which there are hundreds dotted around the machine, are the most likely part to fail first. Way before the NAND goes. I suspect that as process sizes shrink as well we'll start losing processors as well earlier due to electromigration. And there's nothing you can do about that!

As for upgrading the storage, this happens a lot less than most people think. There is a lot of selection bias there. Just buy what you think you will need up front.

The battery I agree with. It is however easy to replace. The problem is of course that Apple only sell it with the top case which I complained about above.

 

[FlyingDutch]

If you think the NAND is likely to fail first then you know nothing about the current state of electronics or of engineering. The lowly MLCC capacitor, of which there are hundreds dotted around the machine, are the most likely part to fail first. Way before the NAND goes. I suspect that as process sizes shrink as well we'll start losing processors as well earlier due to electromigration. And there's nothing you can do about that!

As for upgrading the storage, this happens a lot less than most people think. There is a lot of selection bias there. Just buy what you think you will need up front.

Don’t make assumptions on people you don’t know. I’m an IT engineer and I perfectly know the matter. The NAND was just an example of something that could fail and it isn’t replaceable in Apple products for a specific design choice.
You buy what you can afford, but needs could easily change over the time.
We are back at the disposable device: do you work for Apple ?

The battery I agree with. It is however easy to replace. The problem is of course that Apple only sell it with the top case which I complained about above.

No it’s not. In many Apple ‘s devices the battery is a nightmare to be replaced. I can understand for a thin iPad, but on a MacBook is ridiculous. I’m an Apple user since 1989, I love apple products and I’m going to use Apple’s products in the future. But that doesn’t mean I can’t criticize those marketing choices

 

[litmag01]

Why has the MBP become such a soldered on snooze-fest?

Now the iFixit MacMini 2024 storage teardown he alludes to in the video in the latest lineup is much more noteworthy.

 

[switz]

Back in the day when we could swap memory, graphics cards and drives, the iFixit tear downs enables the casual owner the ability to do these simple jobs (like swapping the disc drives in the Mac mini could be a challenge).

Since the done and welded machines became the norm, I have not had issues with Apple Displays, computers, phones or iPads. However, I did have two failures of lithium batteries in the last two iPods I had and took them to Apple to dispose of them (became very pregnant and lifted the glass of the display off the case).

At my age (80 next spring), manual dexterity has declined and a steady hand for tiny parts is no longer an option. Lots of the things I used to do twenty years ago are but fond memories now.

I have no interest in working on the car engines anymore and let the youth do the maintenance. Same goes for electronics today. They just work. The new Apple gear we just acquired may out live me.

If it is not broke, don't fix it

 

[InnSuu]

If anyone from ifixit is reading this... please, I beg you, make the music stop. Or if you must have brain melting looping pap playing, make it a lot, lot, quieter. I beseech you!

 

[cjsuk]

Don’t make assumptions on people you don’t know. I’m an IT engineer and I perfectly know the matter. The NAND was just an example of something that could fail and it isn’t replaceable in Apple products for a specific design choice.
You buy what you can afford, but needs could easily change over the time.
We are back at the disposable device: do you work for Apple ?

IT engineer is not an actual professional engineering position. If we’re waving titles around, BSc Microelectronics, several years actually designing this stuff … I know what I’m talking about.

The rest is a straw man.

Lots of people fall for marketing and not the rational engineering and failure modelling that a large as hell company actually did. The repair marketing leans to the past which was not a good place. Things are far far far more reliable now. And that’s due to design and engineering decisions like these.

Check the MTTF and reliability of the chop shop laptops made out of whatever was left in a Shenzhen electronics market as a comparison point.

 

[FlyingDutch]

Why has the MBP become such a soldered on snooze-fest?

Now the iFixit MacMini 2024 storage teardown he alludes to in the video in the latest lineup is much more noteworthy.

As you can see, people is accepting those decisions, and Apple is more than happy to make the MBP a disposable machine.
i voted with my wallet: no more MacBook, even if I bought my first Macintosh when several users here weren’t even born.

IT engineer is not an actual professional engineering position. If we’re waving titles around, BSc Microelectronics, several years actually designing this stuff … I know what I’m talking about.

who exactly cares?
who said you are clueless? You were the one making assumptions…

The rest is a straw man.

Lots of people fall for marketing and not the rational engineering and failure modelling that a large as hell company actually did. The repair marketing leans to the past which was not a good place. Things are far far far more reliable now. And that’s due to design and engineering decisions like these.

Check the MTTF and reliability of the chop shop laptops made out of whatever was left in a Shenzhen electronics market as a comparison point.

It doesn’t matter the reliability. You cannot replace basic components and the battery. This is not an “engineering decision“. It is Mr.Greedy Cook at his best, forcing people to upgrade even $2000+ computer after a few years just for a bigger SSD or more RAM.

 

[farmboy]

Back in the day when we could swap memory, graphics cards and drives, the iFixit tear downs enables the casual owner the ability to do these simple jobs (like swapping the disc drives in the Mac mini could be a challenge).

Since the done and welded machines became the norm, I have not had issues with Apple Displays, computers, phones or iPads. However, I did have two failures of lithium batteries in the last two iPods I had and took them to Apple to dispose of them (became very pregnant and lifted the glass of the display off the case).

At my age (80 next spring), manual dexterity has declined and a steady hand for tiny parts is no longer an option. Lots of the things I used to do twenty years ago are but fond memories now.

I have no interest in working on the car engines anymore and let the youth do the maintenance. Same goes for electronics today. They just work. The new Apple gear we just acquired may out live me.

If it is not broke, don't fix it

Truer words, brother. I've followed a similar path of both well-spent and misspent youth and I'm within visual distance of your age. I appreciate that I basically never have to worry about electronics or cars anymore, unlike my youth when I spent an inordinate amount of time repairing radios and TVs, and automatic chokes on carburetors drove me nuts.

(See kids, a carburetor used to be where the go juice used to mix with the air and...never mind)

 

[farmboy]

As you can see, people is accepting those decisions, and Apple is more than happy to make the MBP a disposable machine.
i voted with my wallet: no more MacBook, even if I bought my first Macintosh when several users here weren’t even born.


who exactly cares?
who said you are clueless? You were the one making assumptions…

It doesn’t matter the reliability. You cannot replace basic components and the battery. This is not an “engineering decision“. It is Mr.Greedy Cook at his best, forcing people to upgrade even $2000+ computer after a few years just for a bigger SSD or more RAM.

I'm sorry, Dutch, but too many people on these forums seem to know the price of everything but the value of nothing. Cjsuk is absolutely right. God, if you only knew how unreliable electronics used to be even 20 years ago, you would appreciate what we have, soldered and all. Besides, you can sell your "no longer desirable Mac" for a pretty penny on eBay--because it still works because of the way it's built.

 

[cjsuk]

who exactly cares?

Clearly your good self or it would not have been mentioned.

It doesn’t matter the reliability. You cannot replace basic components and the battery. This is not an “engineering decision“. It is Mr.Greedy Cook at his best, forcing people to upgrade even $2000+ computer after a few years just for a bigger SSD or more RAM.

You're making a lot of naive assumptions which don't stand up to even the lowest level of professional understanding in this area.

And yes, you can replace the battery. It is just annoying that they only ship the battery attached to the top case. I can understand why they do it (safety) but it's a pain in the butt. I mean if you actually watched the video above you'd see how easy it is to get the battery out.

 

[FlyingDutch]

I'm sorry, Dutch, but too many people on these forums seem to know the price of everything but the value of nothing. Cjsuk is absolutely right. God, if you only knew how unreliable electronics used to be even 20 years ago, you would appreciate what we have, soldered and all. Besides, you can sell your "no longer desirable Mac" for a pretty penny on eBay--because it still works because of the way it's built.

Who said today’s electronic is unreliable ? I’m 53, my first Mac was a Macintosh… another one making assumptions on people who don’t know.
people justifying soldered RAM and SSD is just worshipping Apple no matter what. There is no technical reason to design a notebook that way, if not to maximize profits making it disposable.

 

[Alameda]

Why is it “unfortunate” that this is similar to the M3 model and Apple kept the internals the same? Nothing is wrong and nobody was complaining!

Because iFixit is a right to repair advocate, the previous MacBook Pro had atrocious repairability, and Apple hasn’t improved its repairability. They didn’t do a product review, they did a teardown and assessed its repairability.

 

[glindon]

Remember when they used to have detailed tear downs on the web and you could click on the photos, zoom in, and it was informative and interactive?

Now you get this brief 9 minute video with an annoying preachy dude and terrible background music.

 

[cjsuk]

Who said today’s electronic is unreliable ? I’m 53, my first Mac was a Macintosh… another one making assumptions on people who don’t know.
people justifying soldered RAM and SSD is just worshipping Apple no matter what. There is no technical reason to design a notebook that way, if not to maximize profits making it disposable.

These points have been thoroughly rebutted at this point. A nice illustration of how far we have come.

Here's a nice repairable item.

Introduced in 1966. This particular specimen was made in 1969, it is a Tektronix 453 oscilloscope. 50MHz bandwidth pretty standard dual trace oscilloscope but it was the first properly portable unit on the market that wasn't crap. It takes a strong person to carry it. Every single part is replaceable in it and most parts can be replaced today. This particular specimen is currently being repaired by me because, well it's fun getting your hands dirty. However reliable it is not. It runs for about 200 hours before something fails and it needs a repair and recalibration. Repair requires extensive knowledge of electrical engineering (try even comprehending a quantum tunnelling diode based trigger) and the diagnostics take hours. The parts are expensive even today. Inflation adjusted pricing puts the original cost of this particular piece of kit at $19,500 (yes 19 thousand dollars) in 2023 dollars.

Your first Macintosh was actually built on the pillars of that machine which broke a lot of new ground at the time. The learnings of millions of man hours of engineering analysis went into it and every thing we built since has been like that. Hugely complex arrays of components were shrunk and normalised into integrated circuits, then they were reduced in size constantly and performance increased by orders of magnitude. Eventually manufacturing by hand became difficult and machines were introduced. Then things got smaller and simpler. Repeat over and over again.

Every single step we took pushed us along from that quite remarkably short 200 hour service life and extreme initial cost and hourly service cost (us engineers are much more expensive than an SSD) back to something that literally lasts years with no service.

Your soldered on RAM and your soldered on SSDs are part of that. Better integration, less mechanical connections, easier and cheaper replacements (just replace the whole assembly!). For the edge cases where people want to do this, which are I assure you extremely few cases out of the millions of machines they ship, you're SOL. Sucks to be a 1-percenter. But adding additional cost and reliability problems do not necessarily result in a better product for the majority of users.

There is some movement I see on the SSD front with the Mac Mini and that's only used because the number of SKUs they need to keep on hand or build to order is multiplied considerably by the disk options available. 99.9% of those Mac Minis will never see a different SSD installed.

Anyway you can have all of that if you want to pay $19500 for your computer. But you don't I bet.