iFixit Tearing Down 16-Inch MacBook Pro Live

[itsmilo]

Oh, you poor deluded socialist shill...

Oh just let me tell you it was no fun waiting like a week for the battery of my 2012 retina MacBook Pro to be replaced a few years ago. They had to replace the keyboard, the housing just to replace a damn battery like for real? That just shouldn’t be a thing

 

[bsolar]

Oh, you poor deluded socialist shill...

Why? The EU already recognized the "right to repair" for appliances: it's not too far-fetched to think they might look into electronic devices too soon or later.

For the first time the measures include requirements for repairability and recyclability, contributing to circular economy objectives by improving the life span, maintenance, re-use, upgrade, recyclability and waste handling of appliances.

 

[genovelle]

The complaint for the old keyboard is also about key travel distance, reliability etc... not only repairability.

The review is of course negative in terms of repairability, especially due to the soldered RAM/SSD and the fact that there is actually relatively much empty space inside the case which could have been used to provide upgradable components, but very positive for other aspects, like the speakers or the new keyboard compared to the old one.

Having removable items in a portable device creates a point of failure. It is the reason Iphone broke the rule of removable batteries. 80% of my phone issues I had before 2007 came from batteries or their connections. I went from phones lasting a year at the most to passing them on after 3 years or so.

 

[unQuestionable]

Who in the world says they didn’t like the large left/right arrow keys? Dumb.

I personally think Apple is using a BUNCH of old keyboard parts they had. That’s why they didn’t update the camera.

 

[Mascots]

iFixit's brief look at the new MacBook Pro confirms that the internal design of scissor switch is nearly identical to that found in the Magic Keyboard and earlier, pre-butterfly MacBook Pro models. Individual key caps are replaceable, with iFixit even demonstrating that a Magic Keyboard key cap can be snapped on the MacBook Pro's keyboard, although it's a little thicker.

I love this because the Magic Keyboard line is absolutely fantastic - by a very wide margin it's become my favorite keyboard to use so I'm happy to see that it will stick around for awhile, even if wrapped in different forms.

 

[dantroline]

miss the days of a replaceable battery/ram/hdd/ssd

To be honest, I don't, not for a laptop. I am looking forward to waterproofing one day.

I like this new MacBook Pro, it will last 5+ years in good care. I just hope there are no major unexpected design defects like chemical failures on the screen surface and the like.

 

[mi7chy]

save space?

Surface Pro X and Surface Laptop are thinner and have removable/upgradable storage.

 

[639051]

If you listen closely, and you know what to look for, you can see how much bias is present in that video.

One example, the man describes the butterfly keyboard as:

"it's garbage"

This is an opinion, his opinion. I have a MacBook Air 2019, my first ever MacBook Air, and I quite like the keyboard. So, it is clear that a derogatory opinion should not have been allowed in the video because it isn't actually fact and that bias has the potential to inaccurately shape the overall video. Of course, that's my opinion.. but I'm not making a video meant to be viewed by the masses.

Being that bias is present in this section of the video, what guarantee do I have that the same bias isn't present in the rest of the video? (don't answer that.. it's rhetorical)

If you don't like something then don't buy it. But, don't go around saying "it's crap".. someone else may find it valuable. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

The butterfly keyboards have had massive failure rates. Do you think Apple would flip flop on this if there was no problem and the butterfly keyboards were fine?

 

[graafisk]

Who in the world says they didn’t like the large left/right arrow keys? Dumb.

I think maybe it's a tactile thing — the same way a physical esc key is easy to find without looking for it, it helps to have a size difference from option to left-arrow. True, if your fingers have found the right-arrow key without looking, the remaining 3 arrows will fall into place... but it's not a deal-breaker for me. (Disclaimer: I have a 2009 17" and might be biased ;-)

 

[639051]

Then mention that there are repair programs available and allow others to make their own decisions - leave the bias-laden comments out of something that is meant for public consumption.

Mentioning the repair programs is fact, and that's good, but comments like "it's garbage" are not fact and should be omitted.

Perhaps start your own company doing teardowns and then set your rules. If you don't like it, you don't have to watch it.

 

[bsolar]

Having removable items in a portable device creates a point of failure. It is the reason Iphone broke the rule of removable batteries. 80% of my phone issues I had before 2007 came from batteries or their connections. I went from phones lasting a year at the most to passing them on after 3 years or so.

Even assuming a higher rate of failure due to the connection, it would still need to trump the advantages of modularity, which are massive. Furthermore, how much higher rate of failure are we talking about? Last I checked it's not like all other laptops break left and right, even with modular components in them.

Said that, at least for me, lack of modularity was a bigger issue when I had to chose upfront the incredibly expensive largest SSD option: with the last model I feel less such a need.

 

[Joniz]

If you listen closely, and you know what to look for, you can see how much bias is present in that video.

One example, the man describes the butterfly keyboard as:

"it's garbage"

This is an opinion, his opinion. I have a MacBook Air 2019, my first ever MacBook Air, and I quite like the keyboard. So, it is clear that a derogatory opinion should not have been allowed in the video because it isn't actually fact and that bias has the potential to inaccurately shape the overall video. Of course, that's my opinion.. but I'm not making a video meant to be viewed by the masses.

Being that bias is present in this section of the video, what guarantee do I have that the same bias isn't present in the rest of the video? (don't answer that.. it's rhetorical)

If you don't like something then don't buy it. But, don't go around saying "it's crap".. someone else may find it valuable. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

You must hate movie reviews.

 

[MallardDuck]

Watching the video, I'm sure the 'empty' space is there for thermal management and airflow, and isn't really room for upgradable components.

I never had an issue with the butterfly reliability, though were about to get my wife's repaired. I did have an issue with its usability - compared to the new one, it, well, sucks.

 

[Dovydas]

I would have no problems with a thicker MacBook Pro case that allowed for replaceable RAM - and preferably a replaceable SSD. It's not like the older models which had both were all that thick.

Apple would have to increase certain clearances to accomplish this, but it's not like they'd have to add significant weight. I'd be fine with a 3.5 pound 13" laptop which had the overall dimensions of a 2010-era MBP.

When I open my mbp I don’t see how it would be thicker with those parts

Is there a valid technical reason for Apple to solder on their SSD in their MacBooks?

Answer (1 of 11): Space is an important reason. I also know when the RAM was not soldered on a lot of repairs were due to it coming unseated. These were frequently quick easy repairs, but they were frequently traumatic for customers (“I needed to finish my homework!” “I couldn’t do the report fo...

www.quora.com

bs. Just watch Louis Rossman repair a MacBook.

 

[nexusrule]

Apple releases yet another throwable device.
As in throw it in your trashcan in a few years.
No chance to upgrade anything or replace the battery once it stops holding a charge unless you're ready to pay close to the price of a new one anyway.
Nice going Apple.

So paying to replace the battery costs €2500? Really? You couldn’t think of something more false and dumb to say?

 

[bsolar]

So paying to replace the battery costs €2500? Really? You couldn’t think of something more false and dumb to say?

It's definitely hyperbole, but replacing the battery requires replacing the whole top-case, which is nowhere near the price of a new MacBook Pro, but definitely very expensive if done outside warranty.

EDIT: Actually incorrect, Apple's battery service prices are more than reasonable even out-of-warranty.

 

[Dovydas]

Actually they will be more reliable if they are soldered. Socketed parts fall out of their sockets. Socketed parts have more points of failure.

Sockets also increase inductance and impedance, thus increasing power consumption at a given frequency, or reducing frequency at a given power consumption.

Sorry, but my electrical engineering ph.d and years of experience designing CPUs tell me that your claim that my arguments are completely flawed is flawed.
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Because socketed parts fall out. Historically a large percentage of support calls for mobile devices involved parts that have come loose.

Worst excuse ever.

 

[639051]

It's definitely hyperbole, but replacing the battery requires replacing the whole top-case, which is nowhere near the price of a new MacBook Pro, but definitely very expensive if done outside warranty.

As much as I hate "defending" Apple here ... that just isn't the truth:

Mac Repair and Service - Apple Support

Need to repair your Mac? See your service options, their costs by coverage type, and how long they take.

support.apple.com

$199 even for the 16. While I agree this is still expensive it's hardly the price you're trying to say it is.

Edit: Are you thinking about replacement of the keyboard out of warranty? If so, it is possible to reach over $1000 in repair from what I have seen.

 

[AndiG]

The only reason why Apple solders RAM and SSD is the price. 450$ to upgrade from 16 to 32GB for something that costs $55 as a retail price. This is such a damn good business for Apple and the one and only reason - same story for SSDs. Tim wants your money, that’s all.

 

[639051]

The only reason why Apple solders RAM and SSD is the price. 450$ to upgrade from 16 to 32GB for something that costs $55 as a retail price. This is such a damn good business for Apple and the one and only reason - same story for SSDs. Tim wants your money, that’s all.

Not to mention it kind of makes their claim of being environmentally friendly a joke as "upgrading" requires the purchase of yet another entire machine.

 

[bsolar]

As much as I hate "defending" Apple here ... that just isn't the truth:

Mac Repair and Service - Apple Support

Need to repair your Mac? See your service options, their costs by coverage type, and how long they take.

support.apple.com

$199 even for the 16. While I agree this is still expensive it's hardly the price you're trying to say it is.

Edit: Are you thinking about replacement of the keyboard out of warranty? If so, it is possible to reach over $1000 in repair from what I have seen.

Yes, the price I know is based on keyboard defects. I had to replace the keyboard twice in my 2016 model and although it was under warranty, they listed the price I would have paid out-of-warranty. AFAIK the battery is glued to the top-case, so replacing the keyboard and replacing the battery entails actually the exactly same procedure, which is replacing the whole top-case.

I didn't know it had a different out-of-warranty price though, so I stand corrected.

 

[revmacian]

The butterfly keyboards have had massive failure rates. Do you think Apple would flip flop on this if there was no problem and the butterfly keyboards were fine?

As I said, mention the repair program - that is fact and is ok to mention. Leave out the bias-laden comments, those are opinion.. not fact. The problem is too many people have trouble differentiating between fact and opinion.
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This isn't a neutral journalism outlet, this is a company that evangelizes end user repairability - they make no apologies for that - everything they say should be run through that filter.

I see, thank you very much for that information.

 

[639051]

As I said, mention the repair program - that is fact and is ok to mention. Leave out the bias-laden comments, those are opinion.. not fact. The problem is too many people have trouble differentiating between fact and opinion.

It isn't opinion that it has a very bad track record with longevity. If stuff breaks frequently or as easily as those keyboards do (I witnessed multiple failures on them at the hospital I worked at within a few months) you can easily describe them as terrible, that is not opinion that is just the way it is.

It's your opinion that it is a good device.

Again, Apple wouldn't abandon a component this early if it was good. The fact is it is not good for business because it is not a good product, it fails frequently.

 

[gaximus]

Maybe it'd be higher if Apple had respect for consumers and the right to repair bill?

How would the "right to repair bill" make it any easier. Wouldn't it just make Apple have provide the repair parts for sale? I'm honestly asking.

I don't think a bill should be allowed to force a manufature on how to make a product. Apple could weld the enclosure shut if they wanted to, and still repair parts and a Dremal tool.

 

[639051]

How would the "right to repair bill" make it any easier. Wouldn't it just make Apple have provide the repair parts for sale? I'm honestly asking.

I don't think a bill should be allowed to force a manufature on how to make a product. Apple could weld the enclosure shut if they wanted to, and still repair parts and a Dremal tool.

Right to repair isn't simply about design, it is about making parts available as well as the decision to not lock people out from making said repair.