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I was at the Apple store to checkout both, though I had already made up my mind and have a new MBA on the way. While the screen on the 13" rMPB is nice, I couldn't get over the lesser resolution with very minimal usable screen real-estate. Additionally, I much preferred the keyboard on the MBA versus the rMPB. It seemed like the key travel distance and responsiveness wasn't as good on the rMPB. Definitely felt like a cheaper keyboard in these newer systems - not sure if it's cost cutting or space saving.

In my normal work use, the screen resolution isn't going to matter much and I'd much rather have the nearly double battery life and weight reduction. I also noticed that the lid the MPA was easier to lift and open (only needed 1 finger) than the rMBP system. I needed two hands to open the lid on the rMBP, presumably due to stronger magnets holding the lid closed and the heavier lid supporting the retina display.

Anyhow, that's my two cents after utilizing both for about an hour this afternoon. I feel like I made the right decision with the 2013 MBA :)

You do realise that you can set the rMBP resolution to be the same as the Air?
 
You do realise that you can set the rMBP resolution to be the same as the Air?

Scaling the resolution to the Air's native res puts more stress on the CPU/GPU and you no longer have the smoothness of the true retina pixel density. I've had the 13" rMBP and experienced this first hand. Things were more choppy and slow on scaled resolutions and it did not look nearly as smooth and flawless as the native "best for retina" res.
 
Scaling the resolution to the Air's native res puts more stress on the CPU/GPU and you no longer have the smoothness of the true retina pixel density. I've had the 13" rMBP and experienced this first hand. Things were more choppy and slow on scaled resolutions and it did not look nearly as smooth and flawless as the native "best for retina" res.

Maybe if you have the pre-Haswell MBP. The new one is very smooth, using it on 1920x1200, no "extra stress" at all, with extra sharp display. The neat thing is no matter what resolution I use, everything looks sharp even scaled. Unline other non-retina displays where you notice a slight "blur" to everything.

No lag, super smooth, more real estate, the rMBP is great.
 
What is the point of owning retina then?

It still has a higher pixel density.


Scaling the resolution to the Air's native res puts more stress on the CPU/GPU and you no longer have the smoothness of the true retina pixel density. I've had the 13" rMBP and experienced this first hand. Things were more choppy and slow on scaled resolutions and it did not look nearly as smooth and flawless as the native "best for retina" res.

Not in my experience. Using it right now.
 
Maybe if you have the pre-Haswell MBP. The new one is very smooth, using it on 1920x1200, no "extra stress" at all, with extra sharp display. The neat thing is no matter what resolution I use, everything looks sharp even scaled. Unline other non-retina displays where you notice a slight "blur" to everything.

No lag, super smooth, more real estate, the rMBP is great.

On my 2013 13" rMBP, I would get some irritating lag and choppiness when at HiDPI 1680x1050 (which is my favorite resolution for the 13"). But when I toggle to non-HiDPI at that res, or even 1920x1200, it is perfectly smooth (just slightly less sharp).

Really for that reason alone, I am still on the fence about returning it though and just sticking with my 2013 13" MBA. For the net amounts I paid, it was about $250 more for the rMBP.
 
On my 2013 13" rMBP, I would get some irritating lag and choppiness when at HiDPI 1680x1050 (which is my favorite resolution for the 13"). But when I toggle to non-HiDPI at that res, or even 1920x1200, it is perfectly smooth (just slightly less sharp).

Really for that reason alone, I am still on the fence about returning it though and just sticking with my 2013 13" MBA. For the net amounts I paid, it was about $250 more for the rMBP.

Was there any lag on the 2013 13" MBA?
 
What is the point of owning retina then?

The point is that you can scale it to resolutions higher than 1440x900. Personally I have it at 1680x1050, non-HiDPI.

The thing with running non-HiDPI on a high resolution screen is that you get an antialiasing effect - running non-HiDPI 1440x900 on the rMBP 13 looks better than the native resolution 1440x900 on the MBA 13 (you'll see what I mean if you have them side by side). Granted it isn't as good looking as the HiDPI version, but 1) it looks like a smoothed over (aka antialiasing) version of the MBA, and 2) it doesn't suffer from the performance loss compared to the HiDPI version. Not to mention the better contrast, viewing angles, color saturation, color accuracy than the MBA 13...

I have no problem with people recommending the MBA 13 over rMBP 13 for reasons like battery life or budget or even the (negligible, personally) 0.5lb weight difference. But saying things like screen estate is better on the MBA 13 or better performance on the MBA 13 is just a little too over the top...
 
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Ah sorry that makes things o right. I have MS in Comp Science worked on Windows Linux and OSX, wrote drivers and multicore programs, even those that have lockless rings spinning on CPU's with RT FIFO priority. Built about 20 computers and numerous servers, first being 9 years old.

Your experience is not to be downplayed, though it is mostly irrelevant here.

So lets take your points into considerations.
For a programmer like myself, this machine not being server but a tool that one will use every day, again I say there is no difference in i7 on Air vs MacProRetina in regular day usage, even for a programmer running XCode or one or two virtualized hosts.

I mean, benchmarks clearly show the 13" retina being drastically faster than the 13" Air, but if your uses are light, then yeah, you probably won't notice real-world differences.


Having said that the i7 in the macbook retina has more to do to support that retina screen. It is not going to hold a battery charge as good no mater what benchmarks say. I would be surprised that it lasted within 30% as long as MBA in the similar usage (say playing movie).


I never said the 13" retina had superior battery life to the 13" Air, the opposite has been clearly and plainly proven and marketed by Apple. All I said is that there are very few scenarios where one would go more than 9 CONTINUOUS HOURS WITHOUT A POWER ADAPTER. Similarly, few scenarios where the additional three hours WITHOUT A POWER ADAPTER would prove any more useful, especially for someone who is more likely to code at a desk than they are in the middle of nowhere. But whatevs. Again, I'm not knocking your preference be it arbitrary or not; it's just your logic that could use a little work.


There is big difference between i7 and i5 however, but that aside for regular user is not going to be a difference. Now those 64 bit benchmarks - heh...
If you are going to do that kind of utilization you are better of having 15inch with dedicated GPU.

What are you even talking about? Most Mac apps these days are for 64-bit Intel. 32-bit Intel OS X code is on the decline, as are apps that don't use more than one single core. Therefore multi-core 64-bit Intel is THE benchmark to give two craps about.


Again working on Air looks so much more natural than on MBPr. Not something to put the finger on, but it feels much more portable, ergonomic than 13 MBPr.
I am not saying that MBPr is not good to work on, just that MBA is more preferable.

Personal preference, neither knocking it nor agreeing with it.

You may not need an all day battery, but I do. :)

9-hour battery life is all-day. It's also a feat to go 12 hours of consistent computer use without being near a wall outlet.

It's getting late and this argument is getting lousy.

No, you just don't have a valid argument for things that are not obviously just personal preferences.

If the retina screen is not a deal breaker, everything else is better on MBA. There.

Again, personal preference, not the rule of thumb. Retina screens are obviously the future of displays as they are technically superior; it's only a matter of time. Good luck hanging onto the past. If the fate of the design elements of the non-retina MacBook Pro are any indication, Apple will not cater to you for much longer.

No it's not! The i7 CPU in the MBA is a low voltage CPU, the i7 in the MBP is a full power mobile CPU. So that's the reason why it's so much more expensive.

The rMBP 13" actually has a smaller footprint than the MBA although the MBA is thinner at its thinnest point thanks to the tapered design.

If you are happier with a MBA then great, but the rMBP is a better computer. This cannot be questioned.

I agree with everything you say, though it looks like the Haswell generation of 13" retina MacBook Pros actually use the same family of low-voltage processors that the Air uses (where the 15" still uses standard full-power notebook CPUs), albeit at 1.1-1.3GHz faster of a clock speed across the line. It does make a speed difference, even though the OP clearly doesn't see it.

2.96lbs versus 3.46lbs doesn't seem like much; .5lbs difference. Both aren't heavy, that's for sure. The fact that both are light-weight laptops is what makes that half pound difference especially pronounced. Put another way, the rMBP is 17% heavier than the MBA (when comparing the 13" models).

Also worth taking into consideration is the weight of the chargers. The MBA uses the smaller and lighter 45Watt charger; the rMBP uses the slightly heavier and larger 60Watt charger. On the topic of chargers, you'll be reaching for it slightly more often with the rMPB With the MBA, one can leave the charger at home and comfortably get 10 hours of browsing, typing, etc. The rMBP user is more likely to need a charger.

So while the difference is small, we're talking about small things in general. The difference is quite pronounced when you make it relative.

The weight difference between a 45-Watt MagSafe 2 adapter and a 60-Watt MagSafe 2 adapter is barely noticable. I need to actually look at what is written on the adapter to be able to tell the difference. Similarly, I don't know anyone that wouldn't be fine with the 13" rMBP's battery life. Again, it's hard to go 9 continuous hours of computer use per day and NOT be near a wall outlet.
 
The weight difference between a 45-Watt MagSafe 2 adapter and a 60-Watt MagSafe 2 adapter is barely noticable. I need to actually look at what is written on the adapter to be able to tell the difference. Similarly, I don't know anyone that wouldn't be fine with the 13" rMBP's battery life. Again, it's hard to go 9 continuous hours of computer use per day and NOT be near a wall outlet.

Yeah, the half-pound weight difference isn't even a big deal. That's crazy talk by the people who say it is.

The only time I would need more than 9 hours battery is for a long flight, but even the 13" rMBP gets like 11 hours of video playback.

Look at what you're getting in return for that half-pound weight difference. Some people make too much of a big deal over it.
 
The weight difference between a 45-Watt MagSafe 2 adapter and a 60-Watt MagSafe 2 adapter is barely noticable. I need to actually look at what is written on the adapter to be able to tell the difference. Similarly, I don't know anyone that wouldn't be fine with the 13" rMBP's battery life. Again, it's hard to go 9 continuous hours of computer use per day and NOT be near a wall outlet.

Yes but with the MBA you can be more confident leaving for the day without bringing your AC adapter. The difference in weight/room between bringing an AC adapter and not IS a significant difference.

Also, keep in mind the longer battery life will alternatively let you use your MBA for 8-9 hours with the brightness near full and while doing more CPU intensive tasks such as watching youtube, keeping music streaming, etc.
 
Is it me or is this whole thread starting to be quite ridiculous.

1) personal preferences counts 100% to the one buying…. ex: my wife would not want a rMBP as the Air is perfect for her…

2) facts:
a) Air is lighter than rMBP
b) Air has longer battery life than rMBP
c) Air is cheaper than rMBP
d) Air is more wedgy than rMBP (some prefer the incline for typing)
u) rMBP has faster CPU than Air
v) rMBP is more customizable than Air (actual options/iterations)
w) rMBP has more pixels per square inch than Air
x) rMBP has more powerful GPU than Air
y) rMBP has smaller foot print than Air
z) Who the $%^& Cares?

"Better" is a term defined by the conditions that amount to the determinations of the individual…. therefore we can argue (speak past each other ) to no end and come up with the same conclusion… that the other person is wrong…

Point being it would be nice to see why people like their Air's more than rMBP… this would be a useful discussion for someone looking to make a purchase.
 
It's actually worse than that. Using the MBP at a non-native 1440x900 resolution causes even more stress on the GPU, so the MBA at its native resolution both performs better and has more screen real-estate than the rMBP.

Thats why I got the 1680x1050 screen option on a non-retina MBP. The rMBP really offered me nothing that made me want it over a normal MBP. Now that the haswell MBA's are out I must say they look like a great proposition, and I would absolutely prefer one over a rMBP.

I dont really understand the rMBP market in general, apart from possibly photographers. The Air's portability and battery life are stunning if thats what you want. If you are a power user the non-retina MBP offers more options than a rMBP (including mounting two internal 2.5" HDDs/SSDs if you remove the optical etc), and better GPU performance due to it needing to push less pixels, and the option for proper native 1680x1050 if you wanted more screen real estate.

The main advantage I see for rMBP is people running photo editing tools being able to display 1:1 pixel ratio on the screen while showing more of the overall image - and getting the PCIe SSD performance edge. Or am I missing something glaringly obvious that the rMBP also does well? Not trying to troll, I'm genuinely curious.
 
The air is a good machine, but retina is a deal breaker.
Spending hard earned money for a lower resolution notebook does not work for me. I use the macbook a lot for reading. After iPad 3 the retina macbook was the first notebook to make reading a pleasure.
 
Yes but with the MBA you can be more confident leaving for the day without bringing your AC adapter. The difference in weight/room between bringing an AC adapter and not IS a significant difference.

Also, keep in mind the longer battery life will alternatively let you use your MBA for 8-9 hours with the brightness near full and while doing more CPU intensive tasks such as watching youtube, keeping music streaming, etc.

Note the words that I have boldfaced in your comment. Given them, I will reiterate my point, which you are not really doing an effective job of addressing in yours. Let's say that for the Haswell 13" rMBP and the Haswell 13" MBA we have REAL LIFE battery lives of 10 hours and 6 hours of CONTINUOUS USE respectively. First off, when I say "CONTINUOUS USE" I'm saying that this person is spending that amount of time glued to their computer without eating meals or using the bathroom or leaving their computer screen whatsoever. This is unrealistic in just about any work environment. You're going to take an hour for lunch, and you're going to use the restroom or get up and stretch or do something where you are away from your computer long enough to let it sleep for a bit. Point being, YOU STILL DON'T NEED TO BRING YOUR ADAPTER. Though to address your point about the adapter being all that big of a difference; it's not. Back when I still owned one of these, I used to carry around my Late 2006 MacBook and a 60-watt MagSafe adapter (differing only in connector type from the 60-Watt MagSafe 2 adapters used in 13" rMBPs) and it was seriously nothing. I know that there's this stigma around the MacBook Air that emphasizes the elegance and simplicity of as much minimalism as is humanly possible, but honestly, it's splitting hairs at this point.
 
Note the words that I have boldfaced in your comment. Given them, I will reiterate my point, which you are not really doing an effective job of addressing in yours. Let's say that for the Haswell 13" rMBP and the Haswell 13" MBA we have REAL LIFE battery lives of 10 hours and 6 hours of CONTINUOUS USE respectively. First off, when I say "CONTINUOUS USE" I'm saying that this person is spending that amount of time glued to their computer without eating meals or using the bathroom or leaving their computer screen whatsoever. This is unrealistic in just about any work environment. You're going to take an hour for lunch, and you're going to use the restroom or get up and stretch or do something where you are away from your computer long enough to let it sleep for a bit. Point being, YOU STILL DON'T NEED TO BRING YOUR ADAPTER. Though to address your point about the adapter being all that big of a difference; it's not. Back when I still owned one of these, I used to carry around my Late 2006 MacBook and a 60-watt MagSafe adapter (differing only in connector type from the 60-Watt MagSafe 2 adapters used in 13" rMBPs) and it was seriously nothing. I know that there's this stigma around the MacBook Air that emphasizes the elegance and simplicity of as much minimalism as is humanly possible, but honestly, it's splitting hairs at this point.

I dunno man, 6 hours of battery == I needs the power brick. I think there are a lot of people who use a computer more than 6 hours a day even if you exclude lunch, bathroom, meetings, etc.

Commuting on a bike with a backpack almost every day, long days in airports, traveling with a single backpack... I'll gladly shed whatever weight I can. And take as much battery capacity between charges as I can.

Every bit adds up. If the rMBP was a better machine for my needs, I would have bought one the day it came out.

This machine is a tool for me and nothing else. I'm not gonna get worked up defending which machine is "better" since that is entirely subjective.

+1 for the MBA, IMO.
 
I dunno man, 6 hours of battery == I needs the power brick. I think there are a lot of people who use a computer more than 6 hours a day even if you exclude lunch, bathroom, meetings, etc.

Commuting on a bike with a backpack almost every day, long days in airports, traveling with a single backpack... I'll gladly shed whatever weight I can. And take as much battery capacity between charges as I can.

Every bit adds up. If the rMBP was a better machine for my needs, I would have bought one the day it came out.

This machine is a tool for me and nothing else. I'm not gonna get worked up defending which machine is "better" since that is entirely subjective.

+1 for the MBA, IMO.

So you think the 13" rMBP is too heavy for those uses? I'm going to be that kind of traveling that you listed, and the rMBP is like the ultimate machine for me. That half pound weight difference is nothing in comparison to what I'm getting for it.
 
So you think the 13" rMBP is too heavy for those uses? I'm going to be that kind of traveling that you listed, and the rMBP is like the ultimate machine for me. That half pound weight difference is nothing in comparison to what I'm getting for it.

I do not think it is too heavy, not at all. The rMBP is going to make a some people happier than the Air. No question. It's an incredible laptop. If the Air did not exist, I would be excited to have a rMBP 13. You may find that most of the time you are happy with the battery life and don't see a need for the longer battery life from the Air.

I used to travel with a 5 pound laptop that had 2.5 hours of battery life. I got the job done but I am more effective today with better equipment. I appreciate the form factor and battery life of the Air more than I appreciate the retina screen on the pro. Simple as that. The cpu difference between the two is not a big enough difference for me to worry about. Both are too slow.
 
Note the words that I have boldfaced in your comment. Given them, I will reiterate my point, which you are not really doing an effective job of addressing in yours. Let's say that for the Haswell 13" rMBP and the Haswell 13" MBA we have REAL LIFE battery lives of 10 hours and 6 hours of CONTINUOUS USE respectively. First off, when I say "CONTINUOUS USE" I'm saying that this person is spending that amount of time glued to their computer without eating meals or using the bathroom or leaving their computer screen whatsoever. This is unrealistic in just about any work environment. You're going to take an hour for lunch, and you're going to use the restroom or get up and stretch or do something where you are away from your computer long enough to let it sleep for a bit. Point being, YOU STILL DON'T NEED TO BRING YOUR ADAPTER. Though to address your point about the adapter being all that big of a difference; it's not. Back when I still owned one of these, I used to carry around my Late 2006 MacBook and a 60-watt MagSafe adapter (differing only in connector type from the 60-Watt MagSafe 2 adapters used in 13" rMBPs) and it was seriously nothing. I know that there's this stigma around the MacBook Air that emphasizes the elegance and simplicity of as much minimalism as is humanly possible, but honestly, it's splitting hairs at this point.

Clearly we have different use scenarios, because I had a 2012 MBA before my 2013 which got about 6-7 hours of continuous use with my needs and I needed my power brick multiple times a week. I wasn't comfortable leaving it unless I could substitute my iPad in for quite a while.

My work requires me to be continuously mobile and bringing my computer with me as a mobile workstation is incredibly useful. Not all of us work at a desk. Even more-so, the lightness of the machine is such that I can comfortably reach for it with one hand without moving my whole body. This was not as comfortable on the 13" MBRr while I owned it. This is also incredibly useful for my work.

The retina display however, makes no difference. That is about all I gain with the MBPr as the processor in the MBA is fine for me.
 
It would have been awesome if the MBAir could accomodate 16-GB of RAM.

I feel 8-GB is a bit limiting.
 
It would have been awesome if the MBAir could accomodate 16-GB of RAM.

I feel 8-GB is a bit limiting.

The Air is Apple's mainstream laptop. I doubt 16GB RAM will even be offered next year. Have to step up to the Pro line for that.
 
I bought both the rmbp and mba last month.
Both machines are great in there own way.
The OP is right, the mba feels more natural, but the retina is nice and novel.
 
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