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Some math issues here....

MBA has 33% more battery than rMPB

9 x 1.3333= 12 hours

With that much extra battery life, I can almost see myself NOT buying an additional charger for work. I could charge it at home and have it run completely on batteries when I am at work or visa versa.
 
The CPU performance depends. The 11" MBA with 1.7 GHz i7 boosts to 3.3GHz, and seems to be able to stay in the boost mode as long as needed. Only the 2.8GHz i7 (boosting to 3.3GHz) 13" MBP can beat it on CPU performance, but by only ~2%. The other 13" MBPs are slower than it.

MBPs do have more RAM maximum (8GB vs 16GB?). Good for running virtual machines.

I think the 13" MPB had an edge in clock speed (especially compared to the 11" MBA) more ram too.
 
9 vs 12 hours of battery life is a big deal to me when I am traveling. Stuck in an airplane with dead battery is not my idea of fun.

And in what situation would that happen? I have a 13-hour flight next year, and even the 13" rMBP can play videos for 10-11 hours. And in an event that you run out of battery, there is something called sleep/relaxing. Or an iPad if you have one of those.

Look, I will be doing tons of traveling. On a daily basis. And the battery difference is negligible.

I don't buy the travelling argument at all, exactly because of what you said, it's not like you're hooked to the laptop all the time anyway.

Where I do see the difference is the amazing comfort that the MBA gives you, especially when half of the time you do undemanding tasks anyway. I sometimes get as much as 15h real world use. Not having to worry about charging this thing is a real blessing. I sometimes have to care more about the juice on my blackberry than on this laptop. The 9h out of the rMBP wouldn't have been enough today for example. I started the day at around 6:30am watching the news with my breakfast, then research/presentations and 2 evening meetings, now it's midnight, I'm posting here and watching a bit of a video and I'm still on 12%, about to plug in for the night.

There's absolutely no way you're gonna get 11h of continuous video playback out of the rMBP (I'm pretty sure even at the lowest backlight setting, on the MBA it makes huge difference, and when saying 15h I meant at a comfortable backlight level). I don't think it's possible on the MBA (the video playback). 9 hours... maybe, definitely not on the rMBP. So let's keep it realistic, without fanboy masturbation.

Longer battery life means I need to recharge less often. How is that not a benefit? 9 vs 12, that's a 25% difference. And you say it is negligible? Would you be just as happy with 6.75 hours instead of 9? That's only a 25% difference. Why would I want to bring an iPad when I am trying to cut weight and volume? Speaking of iPads why did they make an iPad air? Isn't the normal iPad small enough? The less times I need to dig out my charger the better, it's convenient, it makes my life better.

I am going off of numerous reviews that have stated those 11 hours battery life with continuous video playback on the 13" rMBP. And they weren't doing that with low brightness. I don't see how it's not realistic. Keep in mind we are talking about iTunes HD videos here, and under Mavericks there is even greater battery efficiency when it comes to watching movies through iTunes. But in any case, I'd still prefer the rMBP for those usage patterns you stated.

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Of course the Air is going to be better if you're after maximum portability/battery life. If that's all your after, then by all means have the Air.

Then why were you busting my balls earlier about battery life?

Yes, just like I was expecting 12h battery life on the MBA no matter what basing on the interviews at that time. It's simply not true when you start watching videos on comfortable brightness (and from what I've seen you have to crank up the rMBP much higher than the MBA as far as that goes). 11h of general messing around, I guess, but I won't believe 11h of watching videos with 1/2-3/4 brightness. Don't believe everything you read. It doesn't change the fact that the rMBP has great battery life, but lets not steal it from the MBA, cause that's where it really shines and still brings enough of an edge over the rMBP that's worth mentioning.

The thing I don't get is this:

MBA has 25% more battery and weighs 15% less (13" vs 13").

Some of you guys are dismissive of that but cherry pick a few benchmarks on the rMBP where it is marginally better than the MBA and make a big deal out of it.

Retina screen, sure, that is nice, I love looking at it, but honestly it does not make me any more productive and doesn't increase my earnings, so I can live without it.

Yeah, my problem with those 13" configurations of the rMBP is that they don't quite cut it as ultimate performance machines (as much as a portable laptop can be), so performancewise they are practically on par with the MBA (practically, not synthetic-benchmarkingly). Yet they weigh more and last shorter on a charge... Again, the only distinctive feature being the retina display that for some is a must, for others just a welcome but not a deal-breaking feature (like myself).

Some math issues here....

MBA has 33% more battery than rMPB

9 x 1.3333= 12 hours

With that much extra battery life, I can almost see myself NOT buying an additional charger for work. I could charge it at home and have it run completely on batteries when I am at work or visa versa.

This bickering about battery life is stupid.

1. None of you are going to be glued to a computer for 12 consecutive and continuous hours. You will need to eat, you will need to sleep, and if you value your mental health at all, you will also spend some time not looking at your computer.

2. 9 consecutive and continuous hours is still a long time to be glued to your computer. Overseas flights (as all local flights will not exhaust your battery unless you are playing serious games on it) or not, that's still crazy and not at all realistic. I'm sorry.

3. No one is arguing that the battery life isn't superior in the MacBook Air. What is being debated is (a) the fact that the difference in battery life is practically nil given that both batteries have a life of greater than 8 hours, which is a standard work day, (b) the weight difference between the retina 13" MacBook Pro and the 13" MacBook Air is really nominal (unless you have trouble carrying things) and (c) the former machine is a markedly superior machine in terms of what's under the hood (and let's be real here, when we're talking about computers, that's what really matters).

4. The retina screen isn't being debated at all here. IF it were, that'd come down to a simple matter of "is your software optimized" and if so, that screen is superior and if not, stick with the MacBook Air. End of story. Is it mandatory for those with optimized apps? No, but again, I don't recall anyone saying it was.

5. If we are going to have the "in-flight" debate, for those of you going across the pond, are you really going to have both WiFi and Bluetooth on? You do know that having those turned off increases the battery lives of these respective machines that much more, right? If your retina 13" MacBook Pro has 12 hours of consecutive and continuous battery life without those two things on, are you really going to tell me that the extra 3 hours does that much for you even still? Because that's a trite bit silly, I'm sorry.
 
I like my 11" Air very much. I just miss a second Thunderbolt port or hdmi connection so I can have Gigabit Ethernet and a display connected at the same time.
I find the screen better on the Airs than the Retina MacBook Pros.
Surfing the web is a pain on the Retinas.

For me it's the complete opposite. Even my old and unloved 2009 MBP had a better screen. I pulled it out to compare. The panel on the MBA is disappointing and I cannot understand why people are happy with it.
 
So basically, you're trying to justify your decision on the internet because you're not satisfied with the decision you've made? I don't understand the point of this...

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MBPs do have more RAM maximum (8GB vs 16GB?). Good for running virtual machines.

Yep, I do a lot of VM work so I went with the rMBP but I was already pretty set on the retina display so I don't think I'd get the MBA simply because of that. I used to have a i7 based 11" MBA with 4GB ram (max at the time), I did love the thing but the screen res and 4gb ram was the biggest limiting factor for me as far as usability. Was still a great machine for it's size and could barely tell it's in my backpack.
 
I had the new macbook air but returned it a week after I bought it for the new 13 inch retina. The screen is definitely enough for me to pick it over the air.
 
I wanted the new rMBP, truly I did. I had enough money saved for most any Apple laptop. After going to the store and looking over both of them numerous times, the 11" Air was just to awesome FOR MY needs. And thats where it all comes in, what YOU want out of a machine. For me, the 11" was ideal for how I work and what I wanted. The screen fit my needs, I dont expect to do serious watching on my laptop, a couple episodes on a flight at most, and I'd probably use my iPad for that anyway.

Honestly, you cant go wrong with any mac, it jsut comes down to what works for you!
 
The CPU performance depends. The 11" MBA with 1.7 GHz i7 boosts to 3.3GHz, and seems to be able to stay in the boost mode as long as needed. Only the 2.8GHz i7 (boosting to 3.3GHz) 13" MBP can beat it on CPU performance, but by only ~2%. The other 13" MBPs are slower than it.

MBPs do have more RAM maximum (8GB vs 16GB?). Good for running virtual machines.

How did you come to the conclusion that the 2013 13" MBPs are slower than the MBA 1.7? Could you provide some more insight, as I am very curious?
 
How did you come to the conclusion that the 2013 13" MBPs are slower than the MBA 1.7? Could you provide some more insight, as I am very curious?

This is dumb overall... most these laptops do not have the cooling capacity to run at the stock speed for 100% of the time, never-mind the boosted speed. They will usually hit the thermal limit and start to throttle. It's just people trying to rationalize their buying decisions.
 
How did you come to the conclusion that the 2013 13" MBPs are slower than the MBA 1.7? Could you provide some more insight, as I am very curious?

Only slightly (for 2.4GHz and 2.6GHz 13" MBPs). Here is the Geekbench result, which measures CPU performance. http://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

64-bit single-core score

MacBook Pro (13-inch Retina Late 2013), Intel Core i7-4558U 2800 MHz (2 cores), 3296

MacBook Air (13-inch Mid 2013), Intel Core i7-4650U 1700 MHz (2 cores), 3147

MacBook Pro (13-inch Retina Late 2013), Intel Core i5-4288U 2600 MHz (2 cores), 3107

It's not a surprise. The "1.7GHz" i7 in the MBA boosts to 3.3GHz. The 2.8GHz i7 boosts to 3.3GHz too, but the 2.6GHz i5 boosts to a less 3.1GHz.

In the past, a processor may not stay for a long time in a boost mode because of heat constraint. But the new Haswell processors have changed the game. They rarely overheat in MBA, so they can stay in a boost mode as much as needed (there was an Anandtech test on this).
 
Only slightly (for 2.4GHz and 2.6GHz 13" MBPs). Here is the Geekbench result, which measures CPU performance. http://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

64-bit single-core score

MacBook Pro (13-inch Retina Late 2013), Intel Core i7-4558U 2800 MHz (2 cores), 3296

MacBook Air (13-inch Mid 2013), Intel Core i7-4650U 1700 MHz (2 cores), 3147

MacBook Pro (13-inch Retina Late 2013), Intel Core i5-4288U 2600 MHz (2 cores), 3107

It's not a surprise. The "1.7GHz" i7 in the MBA boosts to 3.3GHz. The 2.8GHz i7 boosts to 3.3GHz too, but the 2.6GHz i5 boosts to a less 3.1GHz.

In the past, a processor may not stay for a long time in a boost mode because of heat constraint. But the new Haswell processors have changed the game. They rarely overheat in MBA, so they can stay in the boost mode as much as needed (there was an Anandtech test on this).
I thought you may be focussing on Geekbench and single core tests. Thanks for the confirmation. :)
 
Well, there are other benchmark results, if you're willing to search and assemble. :)

MBA and 13" MBP use about the same memory and PCIe SSDs. Their processors are the same type (the same microarchitecture). In this case, Geekbench does tell the difference.

Don't get me wrong. The 13" rMBPs are wonderful machines and the retina display is beautiful. And they have better GPUs. But it's a false statement to say they have more capable CPUs (over a few percents) than the MBAs.

I thought you may be focussing on Geekbench and single core tests. Thanks for the confirmation. :)
 
This bickering about battery life is stupid.

1....


You obviously haven't read the posts you were quoting or didn't take enough time to understand them, because the points you are making have already been discussed. I'd say in quite an unbiased way.

As far as CPU power goes, I hope you know benchmark results are idiotic and rarely have anything to do with real world use. Those are just numbers for discussion boards fiends to feel hot to. The truth is that neither the rMBP 13" or the MBA is a "pro" machine. Whatever the name they put on it. Who cares if there's a few points difference between the two in such a case.


I am by no means trying to defend the MBA, because in all honesty I could not care less. I chose it over the rMBP for my own good reasons, I'm not entirely happy with it at all and I'm sure I wouldn't be with the rMBP either. The point is, don't try to prove to others they made a mistake in their purchase. It's just silly. I made a very well informed decision, played around with both of these machines enough, had the money at the time and went with the MBA. The reasons for my decision haven't changed. As far as that goes, I am getting exactly what I hoped for (it's the other little things that made me a little disappointed with the MBA). I feel no regret for not getting the rMBP and frankly I would be an idiot if I did.
 
This bickering about battery life is stupid.

1. None of you are going to be glued to a computer for 12 consecutive and continuous hours. You will need to eat, you will need to sleep, and if you value your mental health at all, you will also spend some time not looking at your computer.

2. 9 consecutive and continuous hours is still a long time to be glued to your computer. Overseas flights (as all local flights will not exhaust your battery unless you are playing serious games on it) or not, that's still crazy and not at all realistic. I'm sorry.

3. No one is arguing that the battery life isn't superior in the MacBook Air. What is being debated is (a) the fact that the difference in battery life is practically nil given that both batteries have a life of greater than 8 hours, which is a standard work day, (b) the weight difference between the retina 13" MacBook Pro and the 13" MacBook Air is really nominal (unless you have trouble carrying things) and (c) the former machine is a markedly superior machine in terms of what's under the hood (and let's be real here, when we're talking about computers, that's what really matters).

4. The retina screen isn't being debated at all here. IF it were, that'd come down to a simple matter of "is your software optimized" and if so, that screen is superior and if not, stick with the MacBook Air. End of story. Is it mandatory for those with optimized apps? No, but again, I don't recall anyone saying it was.

5. If we are going to have the "in-flight" debate, for those of you going across the pond, are you really going to have both WiFi and Bluetooth on? You do know that having those turned off increases the battery lives of these respective machines that much more, right? If your retina 13" MacBook Pro has 12 hours of consecutive and continuous battery life without those two things on, are you really going to tell me that the extra 3 hours does that much for you even still? Because that's a trite bit silly, I'm sorry.

Do you think Apple made a design mistake by creating a laptop with a 12 hour battery? Do you think it is useless to have a battery that lasts longer than 8 hours?
 
You obviously haven't read the posts you were quoting or didn't take enough time to understand them, because the points you are making have already been discussed. I'd say in quite an unbiased way.

You obviously didn't read my first sentence in which I said that the CONTINUOUS bickering was stupid. I have read every word and have presented my opinion on the matters as such. Similarly, I welcome your opinion, despite it being similarly worthless to the topic, which was already worthless to begin with.

As far as CPU power goes, I hope you know benchmark results are idiotic and rarely have anything to do with real world use.

Okay pal, I'm gonna stop you right there. I've been working with computers, both Mac and PC, for nearly three decades. You needn't talk down to me because I DO know what I'm talking about.

That being said, I'm not talking about benchmarks. I'm talking about a faster integrated graphics processor (on an OS that boasts drastically improved OpenCL performance on integrated graphics processors) and a processor that is 1.1GHz faster on one model than the other. I know that clock speed differences aren't what they used to be; 300MHz isn't much, but even 1.1GHz even in today's machines is pronounced and you cannot deny that. Then there's Thunderbolt 2, which, I'm sorry, is superior to Thunderbolt 1 and USB 3; period. Great if you don't use it or care; some of us do.

Those are just numbers for discussion boards fiends to feel hot to. The truth is that neither the rMBP 13" or the MBA is a "pro" machine. Whatever the name they put on it. Who cares if there's a few points difference between the two in such a case.

I don't recall calling either machine a Pro machine. We were comparing one to the other and I'm sorry, one is faster than the other. One has a minimum of a 1.3GHz Haswell Core i5, one has a minimum of a 2.4GHz Haswell Core i5. The latter has better graphics. Therefore, even if the margin is small, the latter one is better. I'm pretty sure that's all I was trying to say. But whatevs.


I am by no means trying to defend the MBA, because in all honesty I could not care less. I chose it over the rMBP for my own good reasons, I'm not entirely happy with it at all and I'm sure I wouldn't be with the rMBP either. The point is, don't try to prove to others they made a mistake in their purchase.


You should actually read comments before making assumptions about them. I even stated that I'm not trying to make MBA buyers feel bad about their purchases, just to poke necessary holes in their logic that one machine is superior to the other. Again, reread before making assumptions.

It's just silly. I made a very well informed decision, played around with both of these machines enough, had the money at the time and went with the MBA. The reasons for my decision haven't changed. As far as that goes, I am getting exactly what I hoped for (it's the other little things that made me a little disappointed with the MBA). I feel no regret for not getting the rMBP and frankly I would be an idiot if I did.

I believe that falls under the "good for you" category. Again, I never said anything to belittle those who picked one machine over the other. Given the lack of retina-ready versions of software that I use, I probably would go with the Air over the retina Pro myself.

Do you think Apple made a design mistake by creating a laptop with a 12 hour battery? Do you think it is useless to have a battery that lasts longer than 8 hours?

Where did I ever say that it was a mistake? I don't think it's useless to have a 12-hour battery life, nor did I ever say that. I said that after 8 hours, additional time becomes NEEDLESS because it's extremely rare that one will go THAT long without a charger. Useless vs. Needless; two different words with two different meanings.
 
Where did I ever say that it was a mistake? I don't think it's useless to have a 12-hour battery life, nor did I ever say that. I said that after 8 hours, additional time becomes NEEDLESS because it's extremely rare that one will go THAT long without a charger. Useless vs. Needless; two different words with two different meanings.

Just asking; I was genuinely curious to try and understand your reasoning. No need to be pedantic about it.

The only point I was ever trying to make is that I personally prefer having the longer battery life and form factor of the MBA over any features that the rMBP 13 has. The title of this thread has the word "prefer" in it. Would you like to hear the definition of it?
 
Price-wise, the rMBP isn't that much more expensive than the 13" MBA when equivalently specced (especially for the 8gb RAM / 256 SSD option). Seems the main reason to get an air would be if you want the 11" version.

I am taking this as an indication that Apple plans to converge the two next year. No more distinction between macbook airs or pros, just 1 retina macbook of each size category, aptly named Macbook.
 
I bought the mid level 13" rMBP a few weeks ago (1499.00 model) and it was a great machine. It lasted my entire work day (developing) and had some left over, though I returned it because I'd prefer 16GB 512GB 2.8Ghz i7 due to my needs (VM/RDC, Photoshop, Chrome/FF/Safari open while testing, iTunes and other behind the scene task). Side note, WTH is up with the 3-4 week BTO times for 13" 16GB...

I really want to buy an 11" maxed out Air but for me it's mainly the display, if it even had a non Retina IPS screen I'd be all over it. With that said I've been spoiled by Retina based devices for a while, 2012 15 Retina, iPhone 4/5 and iPad. I could probably do without Retina but I can't do without IPS, considering I've been using some sort of IPS screen for a few years; Cinema Displays and Retina 15.

Their is no denying the MBA is an amazing machine, the maxed out current models are shockingly good workhorses... At least for my needs I could rock out with a maxed out Air. Actually I bought a maxed out Mid 2011 (in 2011) and used that for a few months but ended up giving it to my wife for a 2011 cMBP 15 (1650x1080 Matte) w/SSD upgrade and 16GB ram.

With that said, using a 15 rMBP since 2012 I've become extremely spoiled by the IPS Retina screen and of course SSD (moot point). If Apple decides to move to IPS for the Airs, even none Retina, count me in. Todays SSD speeds make 8GB of ram on the Air a non-issue since page ins/outs are 1000% better than the old 2.5" counterparts, but if you can have a 16GB BTO option plus O.C.D., best to curve the sleepless nights.

Both are amazing machines, arguing over the two is a very subjective topic, suit your needs, not forum trolls. The rMBP will ever so slightly edge out the Air in performance but I'm willing to bet most people using either won't notice a difference in performance and if you're doing "Pro" work, get the 15 (Quad i7 > Dual i5/i7 for demanding processing needs in everyway). Oh and reading text on a Retina is a dream for sans 20/20 vision people like me.
 
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