I'm at a loss - switching TO windows? :o

[aristobrat]

The love I have for using my MacBook (and OS X) is directly proportional to the contrasting experience I've had using Windows (on various hardware) over the last 10+ years.

I don't think that's something that you can explain to a person who's never had the experience.

If a Mac user wants to switch to the Windows world, I say let them. If Mac really is the best choice for them, they'll be back.

 

[I'mAMac]

If I was forced to buy my own computer for work, it would be a MacBook running
PGP desktop on the MacOSX partition and XP Pro as provided by the company.

They would never find anything on my XP partition not related specifically to work.

And with PGP's military grade encryption, my OSX partitional would be off limits
to the IT snoops

whats a PGP? i might know, just cant think of what the letters mean right now.

 

[jeremy.king]

whats a PGP? i might know, just cant think of what the letters mean right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenPGP

 

[matttrick]

i dont understand the hatred alot of people have for windows. ive been using since 3.1 (and even before without windows) and there are some problems here and there, but windows is powerful and pretty much stable.

i never understand how people end up with all of these errors and crashes. yes i have maybe one to three incidents a year, but they are easily remedied. worst possible case scenario i am doing a file/settings transfer and a reformat. not a big deal and not much work anymore.

i think alot of mac fanatics (no i know not all) are the same type of people who use AOL (IE hold my hand/i dont want to -or cant- think). that is not a BAD thing necessarily but there is no reason to just trash windows either.

im buying a mbp so i can have an alternative to windows, enjoy ilfe, and because i love the aesthetics of the system. ill only be using it for school so i like the simplicity.

but what about gaming? ill be using my desktop pc there, with actual power, speed, and game compatability. if apple could just nail down that aspect they would be more attractive.

i dont really prefer either OS. they both have their niceties. soon i will be using both full time for different things.

 

[hulugu]

Well here's one for you - my brother's looking at selling his Powerbook and buying a Windows laptop. Now I've explained the concept of dual booting to him, yet he seems to argue that he 'doesn't see what he can do on a Mac that he can't do on Windows'

Anyone care to put an argument forwardhere?

Tell him: Do what you want, but I'm not helping you fix it.

i dont understand the hatred alot of people have for windows. ive been using since 3.1 (and even before without windows) and there are some problems here and there, but windows is powerful and pretty much stable....i think alot of mac fanatics (no i know not all) are the same type of people who use AOL (IE hold my hand/i dont want to -or cant- think). that is not a BAD thing necessarily but there is no reason to just trash windows either.

im buying a mbp so i can have an alternative to windows, enjoy ilfe, and because i love the aesthetics of the system. ill only be using it for school so i like the simplicity.

but what about gaming? ill be using my desktop pc there, with actual power, speed, and game compatability. if apple could just nail down that aspect they would be more attractive.

i dont really prefer either OS. they both have their niceties. soon i will be using both full time for different things.

Both OSs have their appeal, but unless you're a hopeless gamer or you need a specific Windows app, I think Macs are a much better fit. What I'm surprised about is the continued statement that Macs are for people who are "the same people who use AOL (IE hold my hand/i dont want to -or cant- think)." What this statement fails to note is one of two things: first Macs have on-board a wealth of development tools, including X11, that are fantastically useful for people who really know what they're doing, and second, that a computer has to be difficult to use and must require thinking to use the system rather than just a tool to do fantastic things.
Furthermore, you're still falling into the lazy thinking that because OSX doesn't have a huge games library the machines aren't powerful. Apparently, you've missed the Intel transition in which Apple has some of the most powerful processors in the field.
By the way, do you know many incidents I've had with any Mac this year: 0. How many incidents with Windows: I ran out of fingers and toes.

 

[Reaver]

Ah, come on, everyone has 4 GB of RAM and a 1 TB HDD installed in their PC....

I didnt my mother board would see 4 gigs but had 4 slots for up to 3 gigs of memory how stupid is that (dumb windows boxes) and only had 750 gigs of HD space.

 

[matttrick]

Tell him: Do what you want, but I'm not helping you fix it.



Both OSs have their appeal, but unless you're a hopeless gamer or you need a specific Windows app, I think Macs are a much better fit. What I'm surprised about is the continued statement that Macs are for people who are "the same people who use AOL (IE hold my hand/i dont want to -or cant- think)." What this statement fails to note is one of two things: first Macs have on-board a wealth of development tools, including X11, that are fantastically useful for people who really know what they're doing, and second, that a computer has to be difficult to use and must require thinking to use the system rather than just a tool to do fantastic things.
Furthermore, you're still falling into the lazy thinking that because OSX doesn't have a huge games library the machines aren't powerful. Apparently, you've missed the Intel transition in which Apple has some of the most powerful processors in the field.
By the way, do you know many incidents I've had with any Mac this year: 0. How many incidents with Windows: I ran out of fingers and toes.

no youre right, i should give more credit to the development side of macs.

but if you think they come anywhere near a pc in power, try comparing benchmarks on similar systems. for cheaper than a macbook pro you can configure a dell which will absolutely blow it out of the water, and come with 3 years of accidental damage protection.

the video cards alone are a huge difference. i didnt miss anything about the intel transition, but without the gpu to back it up, its place in alot of applications is lacking. why apple sticks you with 5400 rpm hard drives almost across the board is beyond me.

again i am not saying macs are bad. i obviously dont think so since im buying one. but i know for sure it has limits in certain areas. i just think they would be oh so much more appealing if they made a few changes.

 

[janstett]

Ditto. Besides, there is one thing he can do on a Mac that he cant on windows: work uninterrupted. No crashes, freezes, BSOD's, annoying popups from the taskbar (i HATE those things!!!!!), etc.

Let's not get carried away with the kool-aid. My Mac Mini got fried (under warranty thankfully), my MacBook hard drive just failed rendering OS X unbootable (ironically, Windows still worked) so I had to reformat and reinstall. My MacBook occasionally requires me to give it the hard reboot. I thought this was a Windows thing? Yeah, right.

And taskbar popups are annoying, but the Jack-F*cking-Russel-Terrier of the dock is pretty annoying too.

 

[breakfastcrew]

Let's not get carried away with the kool-aid. My Mac Mini got fried (under warranty thankfully), my MacBook hard drive just failed rendering OS X unbootable (ironically, Windows still worked) so I had to reformat and reinstall. My MacBook occasionally requires me to give it the hard reboot. I thought this was a Windows thing? Yeah, right.

And taskbar popups are annoying, but the Jack-F*cking-Russel-Terrier of the dock is pretty annoying too.

Yea the dock is pretty annoying I wish I can turn that piece of **** off. The guy at the apple store told me my mac will never crash but my macbook just crashed several days ago. The only thing I was doing was listening to itunes..... And today I was recording a song with garage band after laying down the last track I hit save and it rebooted I was like wtf!!!! 2 hrs of work gone to waste. The machine restarted and I was surprise there wasn't even a recovered mode. So good for the perfect mac.

 

[aristobrat]

for cheaper than a macbook pro you can configure a dell which will absolutely blow it out of the water, and come with 3 years of accidental damage protection.

Thing is, you can configure a faster Dell for cheaper than anything else on the market .. Apple, Toshiba, Lenovo, Gateway, HP...

For now, anyways.

After Dell's last quarterly loss, it'll be interesting to see if they continue their crazy pricing.

 

[aristobrat]

Let's not get carried away with the kool-aid. My Mac Mini got fried (under warranty thankfully), my MacBook hard drive just failed rendering OS X unbootable (ironically, Windows still worked) so I had to reformat and reinstall. My MacBook occasionally requires me to give it the hard reboot. I thought this was a Windows thing? Yeah, right..

I didn't think that he was talking about hardware induced errors.

 

[matttrick]

Thing is, you can configure a faster Dell for cheaper than anything else on the market .. Apple, Toshiba, Lenovo, Gateway, HP...

For now, anyways.

After Dell's last quarterly loss, it'll be interesting to see if they continue their crazy pricing.

well that is true. i would love to see apple quality and innovation with dell customization and pricing. ill keep dreaming

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I don't see why you would be so upset. OS X is just a tool, in the same way that XP is a tool.

 

[FFTT]

Sure you can get into a Dell cheaper initially, just like you can buy a loaded Chevy
for less than a Toyota, but which one will end up costing you less in the long run.


The MacBooks allow you to run Mac OSX, Windows or Linux.

So you meet the job requirements of a Windows compatible machine without
sacrificing your freedom to use Mac OSX for everything else you want to do.

Buying with lowest bidder mentality generally results in false economy.

By the time you add A/V software and anti-malware software and add up the time it takes to maintain Windows, that lower initial cost is deceptive.

With the built in iSight, you can Video conference from anywhere with a broadband connection and you can broadcast audio and video podcasts combining Keynote into your presentation.

 

[matttrick]

Sure you can get into a Dell cheaper initially, just like you can buy a loaded Chevy
for less than a Toyota, but which one will end up costing you less in the long run.


The MacBooks allow you to run Mac OSX, Windows or Linux.

So you meet the job requirements of a Windows compatible machine without
sacrificing your freedom to use Mac OSX for everything else you want to do.

Buying with lowest bidder mentality generally results in false economy.

By the time you add A/V software and anti-malware software and add up the time it takes to maintain Windows, that lower initial cost is deceptive.

With the built in iSight, you can Video conference from anywhere with a broadband connection and you can broadcast audio and video podcasts combining Keynote into your presentation.

i think the fact that you can get a 3 year accidental damage plan and still undercut the cost of a mac, with better video card, hard drive, and ram options makes up for that. add to that the fact that i use free virus protection (that works great), a free spy/adware program, and your only concerns are the camera and the av stuff.

im not a low bidder at all. software can always be added later. other than the camera, macbooks lack in the performance hardware area. its just a fact.

 

[Teddy's]

... their tiny little MS Certified brains.

Yeah, there are LOTS of those. However, a friend told me that the number is declining.
MS certificate this! !&#&%^#$!^&#$!

 

[aristobrat]

macbooks lack in the performance hardware area. its just a fact.

According to Vista, MacBook performance only lacks in graphics.

I ran the "Performance Rating Tool" (from the pre-RC1 Vista build) on my MacBook last night.

On a scale of 1-5, Vista rated my MacBooks processor, memory, and primary hard disk performance in the mid-4's. Processor rating surprised me, as I have the slowest MacBook (1.83GHz) that's out there.

Graphics and gaming graphics were rated lower (obviously), bringing the overall MacBook performance rating in at "3".

i think the fact that you can get a 3 year accidental damage plan and still undercut the cost of a mac, with better video card, hard drive, and ram options makes up for that.

Macs aren't the cheapest, but they're affordable. As you're finding out, a lot of folks simply don't care that the prices don't compare to Dells. And after Dell's last quarterly loss, I think Dell is seeing that it's going to require more than just building the cheapest computers out there for them to stay around as a company.

 

[janstett]

I didn't think that he was talking about hardware induced errors.

Well, OK, I can give you some software errors then...

Like Virtue Desktops replacing my main desktop's background with the last virtual desktop's background. Or not being able to quit Konfabulator. Or Safari not working correctly with certain websites. Or Mac OS running out of threads and saying it can't launch a program.

I like my Mac but I know it has some hairy warts just like everything else...

 

[GFLPraxis]

I, like the OP's brother, am thinking of switching back to Windows? Why?

Believe me, it's not my choice. I am switching to a new job where I will do a lot of work on a laptop while "in the field". IT requires it to be a windows machine. All of the proprietary software we run is for windows only. The company intranet even requires IE to function correctly.

Sure, I could buy a macbook and run parallels, but that would not be supported by IT. (plus --- I haven't researched this in depth yet --- I think by the time I added a full copy of XP pro and parallels, it would be more than a comparable HP or Dell.) I have a very small home office, so I do not have room for both my iMac and a notebook. (Yeah, I know I can take the notebook to another room, but I'm the type that if I'm not in my "workspace," I won't be working). So, unless I can think of something else, the iMac is going to have to go.

Woah woah wait, you don't need Parallels. Use Boot Camp and install Windows XP outright. Hold down the Option key to start in Windows and it's ALL Windows, no Mac OS X running in the background, full hardware support, able to play 3D games. Start it up normally, and it's a Mac.

 

[hulugu]

...but if you think they come anywhere near a pc in power, try comparing benchmarks on similar systems. for cheaper than a macbook pro you can configure a dell which will absolutely blow it out of the water, and come with 3 years of accidental damage protection.

It will also weigh 2 pounds more. But, the accidental damage is nice, although I wonder how hard it is to get Dell to actually fix something and not try to beggar out of their responsibility.

the video cards alone are a huge difference. i didnt miss anything about the intel transition, but without the gpu to back it up, its place in alot of applications is lacking. why apple sticks you with 5400 rpm hard drives almost across the board is beyond me.

However, a video card is only a part of the system. I'd like monster FPS too, but I also know in a laptop I'm trading heat and battery life, so I'm willing to let these things balance out a little bit. That's also why Apple limits things to 5400rpm, with a faster drive, there's more heat, more noise, more electricity and less reliability. There's another issue of a trade-off rather than Apple just being stubborn.

again i am not saying macs are bad. i obviously dont think so since im buying one. but i know for sure it has limits in certain areas. i just think they would be oh so much more appealing if they made a few changes.

I want kick-ass hardware, truly, but I also need the OS in order for the computer to be a really useful tool. And, that's why I keep choosing Macs over everything else. I want all the useful applications, all the little touches, which all make me faster and more efficient and thereby eliminate whatever hardware advantages I might gain with a 7200 rpm drive or a better video card. I just like getting the whole useful package.

Cheers.

 

[FFTT]

A whole lot of people here have many years experience running both Windows and Mac OSX.

Many of us here also share a love-hate relationship with Apple.

Last year people were dreaming up what Apple might do it the next generation
of Pro Workstations.

We wanted machines with ultimate connectivity, expandability, power and storage and we wanted it to run ANY OS.

Apple listened.

Windows is O.K. if you really know what you're doing or if your company employs
a sizable IT staff.

I just find that while you can do a lot of things using certain Windows programs, it always seems more difficult.

Mac OSX applicatations just seem to work better.

 

[Lollypop]

Tell your brother to enjoy all the support calls he will be making...

I like my mac for all the cute features of mac os x, expose comes to mind, but most of all things always just work!

Sure windows has come a long way, I almost never need a restart anymore, but all those Microsoft support people seem to love having something to do, and they seem to love bringing up support issues.... even with a heavily controlled and restricted mac I still enjoy it more than a completely unrestricted windows PC

While im thinking of the MS support freaks.... they do like to keep their own domain protected... one of our security guys said before we can even think of getting any macs we will need some sort of middleware, because X doesnt integrate into a domain at all.. and maybe something like the "x serries server stuff" might help.. he also commented that he doesnt like that a mac cant have upgrades pushed to it via MOM.... newsflash... we already have macs in the organization! Way of topic, but I had to rant about the support culture of windows..

 

[reflex]

I just find that while you can do a lot of things using certain Windows programs, it always seems more difficult.

Funny, my experience is the other way around (not talking about browsing the internet or anything like that).

But usually this is just a result of not knowing the other system well enough.

 

[demallien]

I, like the OP's brother, am thinking of switching back to Windows? Why?

Believe me, it's not my choice. I am switching to a new job where I will do a lot of work on a laptop while "in the field". IT requires it to be a windows machine. All of the proprietary software we run is for windows only. The company intranet even requires IE to function correctly.

Sure, I could buy a macbook and run parallels, but that would not be supported by IT. (plus --- I haven't researched this in depth yet --- I think by the time I added a full copy of XP pro and parallels, it would be more than a comparable HP or Dell.) I have a very small home office, so I do not have room for both my iMac and a notebook. (Yeah, I know I can take the notebook to another room, but I'm the type that if I'm not in my "workspace," I won't be working). So, unless I can think of something else, the iMac is going to have to go.

After reading this post, I'm left wondering what your REAL reason for wanting to change back to a PC is. I mean, the reasons listed above are ludicrous. Don't want to use Parallels? Fine, boot into Windows using Bootcamp. Even an IT department can't complain then.

Can't fit a laptop into your workspace as well as an iMac? Apparently you work in a broom closet, but assuming this is really true, why not replace the iMac with a MacBook/Pro?

These are such evident answers to your problem that anyone reading your post is obliged to conclude that either you have a hidden reason that you don't want to admit to, or that you a trolling.

 

[Macnoviz]

Agreed, let him go. Oh, and tell him to have fun running Vista several months from now, making sure he realizes that it is an OS based on 2-year old technology (i.e. Tiger). Tell him you think it's funny he wants to run old technology, and then say, "But oh well, I guess some people like to pointlessly cripple themselves."

If he can run it at all with a Windows laptop