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I'm furious at PayPal

PayPal

I have had varied experiences with PayPal. Mostly good. I have had to talk to them on the phone on a few eBay auctions however.

I bought RAM from a guy a few years back and never received it. He made all kinds of excuses as to why he did not ship, but took my money anyway! It took me 3 months to get my money back, but in the end the guy was banded from eBay.

I did receive a MOTO cellphone from a seller who stated in his auction that it was new, but we used when I got it. Since it took me a little over 3 months to get my money, PayPal stopped the fraud case against him. I am glad I used a credit card on pay for this and so I received credit form the CC company!

For the last 4 days, I have been getting SPAM supposedly from PayPal that my account has been compromised. On Monday I tried to call PayPal 3 times, I spent waiting on hold for more than an hour each time to check on if my account was compromised or not.

PayPals customer service SUCKS BIG TIME!

I have been on eBay as a buyer and a seller, and 99% of the people who sell are honest. But I have been screwed also. I tried to read feedback etc, to determine if the seller is honest or not. Other than that, it is more of a gut feeling afterwards.
 
Though PayPal prefers it, I will not use transferred funds as a form of payment. Credit card transactions offer more resolution options.

A shipper improperly packed DVDs and some were mysteriously missing from the package delivered with untaped ends. PayPal ruled in favor of the shipper since he had documentation indicating multiple DVDs originally shipped. Receiving less than what was ordered is considered an "attributes or quality of goods" issue. So if you order a chess game and only receive a pawn, PayPal sides with the seller.

Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It
does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods
received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a
refund.
 
Unspeaked said:
A few comments here:

1) You folks do realize that eBay, PayPal and even craigslist (which someone mentioned a little bit upthread) are all the same company, right?

2) The trouble the OP has run into is that he didn't have the seller edit the listing to specify insurance. Thus, PayPal does not know the seller was obligated to insure the package and thought the delivery confirmation was enough. If the auction terms had clearly stated insurance and the seller didn't buy it, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

3) Also, the OP should have used a credit card as someone else mentioned. Of course, if he did use a credit card and issued a charge back from PayPal, they would close his PayPal account (because they're jerks). But at least he'd have his money back for this auction.

The lesson here is: never trust eBay, PayPal or anything and anyone associated with them!

:(
Click to expand...

I find these points interesting.

1) I never knew that Ebay, PayPal, and Craigslist were the same company. Wow!

2) If the OP paid for added insurance, that new extra total would be seen in the PayPal transaction listings for the added amount and on the paid invoice receipt that is sent back to the buyer.....that should be proof enough alone for Ebay AND PayPal.

3) I thought it was safer with PayPal to use funds from a bank account rather than a CC. At least that's how it seems when I pay for items using PayPal from my bank source.

Personally, I trust PayPal since they have been 2 for 2 in solving my disputes as an Ebay buyer. I'm happy with them so far.
 
Eric5h5 said:
Eh? That would be micro claims court, maybe. In the U.S., small claims is up to $25,000 depending on the state. Not less than $1500, average probably about $5000.

--Eric
Click to expand...

He means to file. Not the amount you can recover.
 
TechNutt said:
I find these points interesting.

1) I never knew that Ebay, PayPal, and Craigslist were the same company. Wow!
Click to expand...

I think eBay owns a PART of CL. They did not invest enough to have controlling interest. It's of no consequence since eBay can't tell the majority stake of ownership anything other than "here's my money"

Online classifieds and community site Craigslist has picked up a very high-profile investor, eBay, which has taken a 25 percent ownership interest in the smaller firm. Ebay bought out an existing shareholder who had once been a Craigslist employee. Financial terms weren't disclosed.
Click to expand...
 
Kwill said:
Though PayPal prefers it, I will not use transferred funds as a form of payment. Credit card transactions offer more resolution options.

A shipper improperly packed DVDs and some were mysteriously missing from the package delivered with untaped ends. PayPal ruled in favor of the shipper since he had documentation indicating multiple DVDs originally shipped. Receiving less than what was ordered is considered a "attributes or quality of goods" issue. So if you order a chess game and only receive a pawn, PayPal sides with the seller.

Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It
does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods
received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a
refund.
Click to expand...

Wow! U have got to be kidding me! :eek:

That was very enlightening....so much so that I think i will start to use a cc for my purchases from now on. It sucks it's gotta be that way, though.
 
Mindflux said:
He means to file. Not the amount you can recover.
Click to expand...

Aha, that makes a lot more sense now. :)

DesignerOnMac said:
For the last 4 days, I have been getting SPAM supposedly from PayPal that my account has been compromised.
Click to expand...

Those are phishing emails. Of course they're not from PayPal and of course your account hasn't been compromised. Don't waste your time (or theirs) bothering to contact them about it.

--Eric
 
Eric5h5 said:
Those are phishing emails. Of course they're not from PayPal and of course your account hasn't been compromised. Don't waste your time (or theirs) bothering to contact them about it.

--Eric
Click to expand...

That was a great point! I forgot to mention that myself as I was getting those same emails, but i didn't fall for it. It frickin makes me mad as hell that dishonest people scam out innocent, unknowing people that way.
 
Eric5h5 said:
Those are phishing emails. Of course they're not from PayPal and of course your account hasn't been compromised. Don't waste your time (or theirs) bothering to contact them about it.

--Eric
Click to expand...

paypal ONLY sends emails with your FULL name, first/last in the email.

If it says anything but YOUR NAME, like paypal user, its a scam and a half.

Any link you click doesnt goto a paypal.com url either.
 
TechNutt said:
3) I thought it was safer with PayPal to use funds from a bank account rather than a CC. At least that's how it seems when I pay for items using PayPal from my bank source.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they really try to make you think that, and that's why it's so difficult to change your payment method from PayPal funds or bank account to a credit card (try to do it - you need to go through at least three confirmation screens!), but you're certainly safer with a credit card. Of course...


TechNutt said:
That was very enlightening....so much so that I think i will start to use a cc for my purchases from now on. It sucks it's gotta be that way, though.
Click to expand...

...as I said, if you charge back on your credit card, even if it was with reason, PayPal will close your account. It violates your user agreement and they don't want people to go around their own weak enforcement. And from what I hear, PayPal spends a good amount of their limited resources trying to prevent banned users from opening up new accounts with them. Seriously! It may take them weeks to sort through a dispute, but if you sign up for a second account with them, they constantly run searches for similar addresses, names, credit card and bank accounts, etc. and will have it closed within 48 hours!


Mindflux said:
I think eBay owns a PART of CL. They did not invest enough to have controlling interest. It's of no consequence since eBay can't tell the majority stake of ownership anything other than "here's my money"
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think I was exaggerating a little about the craigslist part, they only own the second largest stake in the company after the founder, but they do own PayPal outright...
 
Unspeaked said:
..as I said, if you charge back on your credit card, even if it was with reason, PayPal will close your account. It violates your user agreement and they don't want people to go around their own weak enforcement. And from what I hear, PayPal spends a good amount of their limited resources trying to prevent banned users from opening up new accounts with them. Seriously! It may take them weeks to sort through a dispute, but if you sign up for a second account with them, they constantly run searches for similar addresses, names, credit card and bank accounts, etc. and will have it closed within 48 hours!
Click to expand...

Now that is very interesting. I have a PayPal business account so I am a buyer and a seller. I also have a merchant account so CC payments can be accepted without PayPal.

All of this makes me tread lightly around chargebacks because I know it incurs a premium surcharge and too many of them can affect the merchant's future interest rate. However, when a merchant refuses to stand by his product, CC companies arbitrate disputes with the authority to reverse charges. PayPal just establishes a repository for mutual emails and then offers a toothless response if accelerated.

I recently had a local vendor charge my Amex $500 (no PayPal) and deliver some erroneously marked printing consumables that apparently expired. After two weeks of unsuccessful efforts to replace the order or obtain partial refund, the matter was referred to Amex. Still pending outcome, he now stands to lose the material and money. I would hate to jeopardize my PayPal account for a justified chargeback but would do so if necessary.
 
Kwill said:
I would hate to jeopardize my PayPal account for a justified chargeback but would do so if necessary.
Click to expand...

I hate to sound glib but as far as I'm concerned it would be no great loss. There are other solutions becoming popular, including Google Payments.
 
Kwill said:
Now that is very interesting. I have a PayPal business account so I am a buyer and a seller. I also have a merchant account so CC payments can be accepted without PayPal.

All of this makes me tread lightly around chargebacks because I know it incurs a premium surcharge and too many of them can affect the merchant's future interest rate. However, when a merchant refuses to stand by his product, CC companies arbitrate disputes with the authority to reverse charges. PayPal just establishes a repository for mutual emails and then offers a toothless response if accelerated.

I recently had a local vendor charge my Amex $500 (no PayPal) and deliver some erroneously marked printing consumables that apparently expired. After two weeks of unsuccessful efforts to replace the order or obtain partial refund, the matter was referred to Amex. Still pending outcome, he now stands to lose the material and money. I would hate to jeopardize my PayPal account for a justified chargeback but would do so if necessary.
Click to expand...

If you've got a legitimate business and can open two PayPal accounts (a business account for processing payments and a personal account for sending them) I would highly recommend that.

That way, if something were to happen with something you bought, you could do a credit card charge-back in confidence and not worry about being unable to process PayPal transactions for your business, even if only temporarily while you find a workaround.
 
notjustjay said:
I hate to sound glib but as far as I'm concerned it would be no great loss. There are other solutions becoming popular, including Google Payments.
Click to expand...

Are you kidding? Compared to everyone else, PayPal is relatively a lot easier to deal with. I tried Google checkout - they put a hold on your payments for a few weeks if you sell a lot of stuff. Amazon put a hold on my payments for 45 days!

PayPal did put a hold on my payments when I initially started to sell.. but they reviewed my account and within 4 days everything was back to normal. Try contacting Google checkout for support.. they don't have phone support.

I don't know why everyone here treats PayPal as the bad guy (no i don't work for them lol.. i just receive exceptional service from them) Any merchant company - Authorize.net, PayFlow, etc.. all of them deal with chargebacks in the same manner. If the shipment tracking shows that the package was delivered.. the seller is not liable for damages.

Yes, the OP should contact the seller, and should ask him to file a claim for insurance. If the seller does not respond, then he should take legal action.. in that what the seller did was fradulent i.e. he was paid for insurance, but he never insured the package. The OP seems to have mixed the two topics - insurance and signature confirmation. Paying for insurance is not the same as paying for signature confirmation.

Then there are sneaky buyers who carry out fraudulent practices - I've dealt with a few idiotic buyers.. who receive their packages.. sign for them.. and then file a chargeback just to see if they can get their money back. In the process, my funds get frozen for a few weeks until the merchant company reviews that the shipment was indeed delivered, and signed for.. and my funds are then sent back to me.
 
cantthinkofone said:
Call your local police, or sheriff office about it. When they start knocking on the guy's door you will get results.
Click to expand...

Psshhh

I got scammed out of 2000 dollars, the police haven't done a damn thing.

I reported it to the internet crime unit but they are too busy finding perverted wierdos that want to rape children (they basically said that to me).

Thing is, the scam I was involved in actually totalled over 5k if you count the others that were scammed including me.

The guy is sitting around in New York, happy that he somehow got away with it. That bastard is going to get a ass kicking from a friend called Karma.
 
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