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Should I choose VBR when ripping the CD's? Thanks.

Jon

VBR is POINTLESS these days...unless you are still on a machine with a 5gig hard drive and a 512KB video card. :)

VBR's entire purpose was to try to save a littttttttle more space. Around 2003 VBR was basically rendered obsolete due to large(r) hard drives.

-Eric
 
VBR is POINTLESS these days...unless you are still on a machine with a 5gig hard drive and a 512KB video card. :)

VBR's entire purpose was to try to save a littttttttle more space. Around 2003 VBR was basically rendered obsolete due to large(r) hard drives.

-Eric

Thanks for the explanation. Interestingly, opinions seem to vary depending on where you look. On the Ilounge forum, they still seem to be fans of using VBR as they feel it gives better sound than CBR. My whole library is 128 kbs and I'm probably going to re-rip to 256 kbs (its only about 300 CD's), so I did some searching on the topic. Ilounge folks seem to think that 128 kbs is plenty, 192 is a little overkill, and 256 is way overkill. Some claim that if you do a true blind test, you can't tell the difference between 128 and 256. In my unscientific listening, I feel like I can tell the difference, but I guess it could be my imagination.

Jon
 
14000 songs! i guess that is about 1000 CD's.

i would try to hire a student via craigslist to do that.
the guy rips 10 CD's per hr, so he's don in 100 hr's. at $5/hr it cost you only $ 500:eek:

if you find somebody with access to three macs then yopu might be able to get away with $150. just make backups every day.
 
wma to mp3

I'm currently doing about 1470 of 9000 songs. I decided to use Magix Cleaning Lab for windows, via VMware on a Mac Pro. I am amazed at how fast it is converting the files even as I type this note. It is buzzing along at about 100 songs per 7 minutes, totally awesome! At this rate I will have all of the 9,000 songs done in about 900 minutes. Sure beats the heck out of the old way using Switch and loosing all the song data, artist, album etc..
Magix lets you clean, normalize, add effects etc.. to them as it converts.
If ya have access to a windows PC or a virtual windows installation it flies.

Too bad Mac's don't have a simpler solution for the conversions, at least I couldn't find one, I already had the Magix software from the PC I converted from.

Rock On
 
Thanks for the explanation. Interestingly, opinions seem to vary depending on where you look. On the Ilounge forum, they still seem to be fans of using VBR as they feel it gives better sound than CBR. My whole library is 128 kbs and I'm probably going to re-rip to 256 kbs (its only about 300 CD's), so I did some searching on the topic. Ilounge folks seem to think that 128 kbs is plenty, 192 is a little overkill, and 256 is way overkill. Some claim that if you do a true blind test, you can't tell the difference between 128 and 256. In my unscientific listening, I feel like I can tell the difference, but I guess it could be my imagination.

Jon

Well, I'm not about to start a die-hard debate but it's all relative. There are questions you need to ask yourself in order to find the best bitrate (or even using MP3s to begin with).

Some points and questions are:

1)Yes, if you plan to only use your $2 iPod standard headphones, then you will NOT hear a difference between a 128K and a 256k and even a WAV on your tiny little headphones. You can even quote me on that if you buy a $70 pair of headphones.

2)Continuing on #1, if you plan to use your Headphone Out jack to hook it up to a home stereo, I believe you will notice a difference IF YOUR STEREO is a high quality stereo...meaning, you've invested in more than $3000 in a quality receiver and speakers. You also will need to have a pretty nice room acoustically speaking. In this case, I would recommend encoding at 192k. I doubt very much you will hear any difference over 192k but I am confident that (from my own experience) 128k files just sound fair/poor on a nice home system. More importantly, a Headphone Out jack is NOT the same as a Line Out jack....nor are the 2 of equal quality. Line Out is far better.

3)If you plan to use your iPod, in ANY shape or form (fm tuner, headphone jack, 3rd party direct connect, etc), in an automobile (and mostly use the iPod only in an automobile), you might as well rip at 128k. Automobiles are so acoustically poor and the road noise is typically loud that there is not much of a point going above 128k. However, considering where you may also play your iPod, I would rip at 192k...there's not much of a file size difference.

4)If you plan to use iTunes (not the iPod) to play your music directly over a quality stereo via the Line Out jack of a high quality soundcard, then LOSSLESS is the best way. WAV or APE (iTunes doesn't support APE but I love it) or other lossless format. These file formats will be much larger than a 128k mp3 but again, it's all relative in 2009 where 1TB hard drives are $109 at your local store. My entire 192k CBR mp3 collection of 21,000+ songs eats up about 120gigs on my hard drive (I have a LOT of songs that are club mixes clocking in over 7 minutes so technically a lot of my MP3s count as 2 MP3s because they are so long). 120gigs--Big deal. Cheap computers have been shipping with 100gig+ hard drives for the past 5 years. My collection of APEs (I don't have a count yet) is somewhere around 500gigs because I haven't finished re-ripping everything yet.



I agree with other people that 90% of the human population fail at blind music listening tests. It's just that 90% of the people on this planet can only hear so much. The other 10% (I feel I am in this category) can tell the difference IF THE EXPERIMENT IS DONE FAIRLY.

So, think about where you want to listen to your tunes. Think about if you have enough disk space to hold a lot of music. Think about the FUTURE. Do you want to re-rip everything 5 years from now at WAV or lossless quality because you felt 256k was good enough? 128k is soooo 1996. It's pathetic to put it frankly. I would choose 2 options: encode at 192k CBR or simply rip at full quality WAV or whatever Lossless format you like. There is no point in nickel and diming to try 256k or 320k.

It's always best to rip the full quality...then you have them on your hard drive. Then you can down-convert them to your hearts content without spending months physically inserting cds and staring at a computer monitor. You have 300 cds. At most that would be: 300 cds X 700MB per cd = 210gigs at full quality WAV....and likely around 170gig in a Lossless format. That math is pretty close depending on how long each audio cd is. 700MB is the max size of a cd. I find that ripping an entire cd at 192k produces files totalling just a hair over 100MB...so...300 cds x 100MB per cd @ 192k = 30gigs roughly. So in your case it's 30gig vs. 170gig vs 210gig. 256k rips are probably going to make that 30gig more like 40gigs.

:)
 
So, I've been slacking for the past couple of weeks and haven't worked on my library at all. I'm going to start back up tonight... hopefully.

I'm still debating on whether to invest in a Drobo or just get a bunch of external hard drives. I need something in the next month or so for backing up all my music.
 
Thanks for the explanation. Interestingly, opinions seem to vary depending on where you look. On the Ilounge forum, they still seem to be fans of using VBR as they feel it gives better sound than CBR. My whole library is 128 kbs and I'm probably going to re-rip to 256 kbs (its only about 300 CD's), so I did some searching on the topic. Ilounge folks seem to think that 128 kbs is plenty, 192 is a little overkill, and 256 is way overkill. Some claim that if you do a true blind test, you can't tell the difference between 128 and 256. In my unscientific listening, I feel like I can tell the difference, but I guess it could be my imagination.

Jon


Hmmm, well I find 128 is so far away from CD quality - voices and percussion decay is where I think the compression stands out the most. IMHO the quality improves massively up to 256/320. But what I also found was that using LAME on VBR at an average of around 200 in HQ encoding mode is perceived as the same quality as 320CBR, i.e. for me I cannot hear any degradation from 320 CBR. And I get 50% more onto my ipod...... which is still maxed out......

And I did find that mp3 sounds a lot better than AAC (itunes encoder).

Anyway, just my thoughts..... if I re-ripped everything now I'd rip to FLAC (so I don't have to do it again in the future) and batch encode to mp3 for the ipod.

Anyway, those are my thoughts - best thing to do is rip a couple of tracks you know and love in various ways and see if you can hear the difference.

S
 
I couldn't pick out the difference between lossless, 128 and 256 using a pair of $100 Sennheiser over-the-ear headphones and my newer aluminum iMac.

I used a free program that lets you set up a blind listening test.
 
I finally reached the half-way mark for ripping all of my CDs to Apple Lossless. I was slacking for a while, but I really picked it up in the past week. If I keep this up, I should have my entire library finished by mid-April.

I'll be so happy once this is finished.
 
So, I've been slacking for the past couple of weeks and haven't worked on my library at all. I'm going to start back up tonight... hopefully.

I'm still debating on whether to invest in a Drobo or just get a bunch of external hard drives. I need something in the next month or so for backing up all my music.

I think Drobo is overpriced. I use a PowerMac Dual G4 (sits in basement) with SATA card as storage device, connected via gigabit ethernet.

As for music portable storage, I use a firewire bus powered drive so it works everywhere with my MBP and you don't have to worry about powerline fluctuations damaging your drive which happened once when I was DJing (power in the area went out, had to use disk warrior).
http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=11038


I'll let the people who know the answer give you the proper answer but for some reason I would think it would depend on the player you use? That's an interesting question. Obviously with ALAC you'd only be able to use iTunes, but I wonder if an AIFF file would sound different if played by iTunes, Quicktime, VLC, etc etc (assuming that all the cables, etc remain the same) from a technical standard. I'm sure any differences would be almost imperceivable but I wonder if there actually would be a difference.

CD players have D/A converter: Digital to Analogue converter. Quality differs.

Same for computers.

That's why I suggest an external sound card. I am using the Apogee Duet. The burn in time is really long (sounds tinny in the beginning, thought about returning), but sounds amazing now after >6 months (although I didn't use it as much as I should).
 
I think Drobo is overpriced. I use a PowerMac Dual G4 (sits in basement) with SATA card as storage device, connected via gigabit ethernet.

As for music portable storage, I use a firewire bus powered drive so it works everywhere with my MBP and you don't have to worry about powerline fluctuations damaging your drive which happened once when I was DJing (power in the area went out, had to use disk warrior).
http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=11038

That looks like a nice hard drive. I like that it doesn't need to be plugged into an outlet (if you use FireWire). It's a little pricey for the 500GB of storage it offers, but it has no fan, which is a big plus. I'll look into this drive more... thanks.
 
The Drobo may be "pricey" but it very quite. I wouldn't know it was there if I didn't have the little Drobo Dashboard app installed to monitor the storage space. Drobo is continually expandable, easily upgradeable storage space without need to mess with RAID software. I call that a winner. Sure it has the potential to fail, but you know so does any HDD, and JBOD setup would have to be setup in some sort of RAID array to avoid one failing and losing your data. I would gladly spend the 900 dollars for a fully loaded Drobo just for the piece of mind of not having to worry about ten of thousands of dollars of Data being lost by a HDD failure.

I have my Drobo fully loaded with 4 1TB WD Green Drives have been using it for many months now trouble free. I'm patiently waiting on the WD 2TB drives to ship so I can load add them in for even more space. :)

Just my imo. :)
 
That looks like a nice hard drive. I like that it doesn't need to be plugged into an outlet (if you use FireWire). It's a little pricey for the 500GB of storage it offers, but it has no fan, which is a big plus. I'll look into this drive more... thanks.

You can often get it for less from price comparison web sites.

I paid $500 or so for an older version 3 or 4 years ago but no biggie compare to the cost of CDs.

You can also get a firewire 800 enclosure and put in a 500gb 2.5" in it. About $200 for 500gb 5400rpm with enclosure.
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/MSTG800U2K/
 
Yay! It's good knowing other folks are ripping cds to their library. I currently have 13,000 songs in my iTunes, but I have about 250-500 cds to rip. I'm also thinking about ripping my moms album collection and surprising her with a new iPod with all her old music on it.

- Edit:

I just put in a CD from 97 that had multimedia on it and I was looking at the minimum requirements.

Mac: Mac LC III or higher, 25MHz 68030 or faster, 8 megabytes RAM, System 7.1 or later, 640x480 256 color display, double speed CD-Rom drive. Quicktime 5.1.

My oh my how quickly things change. This was barely 10yrs ago.
 
I currently have all my music at 320 AAC, around 12,000 songs. First I had it at 224 AAC but I could hear a difference on my dad's big stereo, so I started again. I did a blind test and could even hear a difference from 320 to ALAC, though pretty small. But I am still hesitant to move over to Lossless just because of the size. When iPods come in 100GB sizes and the Apple tv comes in at least 320GB then I might think about it. I just don't feel like managing more than one version of a song.
Decisions, decisions :D
 
I currently have all my music at 320 AAC, around 12,000 songs. First I had it at 224 AAC but I could hear a difference on my dad's big stereo, so I started again. I did a blind test and could even hear a difference from 320 to ALAC, though pretty small. But I am still hesitant to move over to Lossless just because of the size. When iPods come in 100GB sizes and the Apple tv comes in at least 320GB then I might think about it. I just don't feel like managing more than one version of a song.
Decisions, decisions :D

You could always rip all your cds as Apple Lossless and then convert them to 256 AAC (VBR) for your iPod. That's what I'm doing.

I'm storing all the Apple Lossless versions of my cds on my external hard drive (backed up obviously) and then converting them to AAC for iTunes and my iPod. If I ever need a better quality version, I can just use the lossless version to create it.

My biggest reason for doing this was so that I don't ever (hopefully) have to redo the ripping process again, just encoding.
 
VBR is POINTLESS these days...unless you are still on a machine with a 5gig hard drive and a 512KB video card. :)

VBR's entire purpose was to try to save a littttttttle more space. Around 2003 VBR was basically rendered obsolete due to large(r) hard drives.

-Eric

VBR is far from pointless for most of the general public who are not audiophiles. I listen to my music on an iPod, home system (iPod dock), and car via iPod. I cannot tell a difference between VBR and 320KBPS on any of these systems. I do notice that in some instances the source quality can have a drastic effect on the sound, but not bit rate. For example, I have a CD copy of Rumors from like 1988. Even if I rip it at a high bit rate it sounds bad. However when I use a remastered copy it sounds great at VBR. VBR strikes a good balance between quality and size for the average user. Unless you are an audiophile or have a high-end sound system it should be more than adequate.

I have also seen many people in this thread talking about the future. The question you should ask about the future is are you going to become an audiophile, or buy a high end system. Just because you can get 1TB cheap does not justify ripping your entire library in lossless. Speakers and audio systems have always fallen into that category of "you get what you pay for". For the past two decades high end audio systems using quality components have always been pricey. VBR or 256 will likely suffice on most systems indefinitely.
 
I think the time has come for me to re-do at least the older parts of my library.

All my songs from before 2005 were imported from my old iPod mini (hard drive on pc died), and the POS shareware program I used purposely downscaled everything to .wav :mad:

I didn't really care back then because I was just a kid, but now I'm beginning to think I should do some serious re-torrenting....
 
If you go lossless, you'll never have to do this again. You're building this collection that should last the rest of your life. People have never truly been able to build a workable lifelong collection. Digital files have the possibility to be around forever. 8 tracks went the way of the Dodo, LP's became antiques and your CD's become drink coasters.

If you put in all this time and effort to your music collection, make it last a lifetime.


Also, for my iPod and my MBP, I created a separate library for lossy files. Multiple libraries do need better support from iTunes, IMHO, but it does work well enough.


This is exactly what I have evolved into doing. I am slowly going back to the most important and best recorded of my music to redo in lossless. Some music I will never redo, but the music I really like to listen to that is recorded well is worth it. I also did AAC in addition to the lossless for the ipods, but have since switched to 320 mp3 because it's compatible with mp3 disks and, if needed some time in the future, other devices, such as GPSs and probably ereaders eventually.

Mooch
 
I couldn't pick out the difference between lossless, 128 and 256 using a pair of $100 Sennheiser over-the-ear headphones and my newer aluminum iMac.

I used a free program that lets you set up a blind listening test.


I couldn't tell either a year or so ago. Then I started listening to better headphones and amps. (I rarely use speakers.) Now I can tell the difference between lossless and lossy. I'm not totally pleased with this development but I am switching to lossless with the computers with 320 mp3 copies for my ipods.

Mooch
 
I did this project about a year or two ago and finished it. Except that I converted mine to 192 kbps MP3. Midway I changed to 256 kbps. But really at 192 kbps I can't tell a difference from the CD. At 128 kbps I can definitely tell, but not at 192. Everything in MP3 because I need the compatibility for many things. But I have no desire to re-encode at a higher bitrate or format. It was a long and painful process.

Good luck.
 
I just started this project today - can't even count how many hundres of cd's I'm dealing with.

I decided to completely anal-ize my music in the process and I'm replacing singles I have bought on itunes over the years with the full cd version as I've acquired them, fixing up my tagging, and cleaning out my compilation cd's from my digital collection where I can. And of course, fixing my album art.

The tricky part is copying over all the tagging, playcounts and last played dates, but it is looking like I found a script on Doug's site that will do this rather painlessly.

Ultimately I am replacing all my aac files that I've encoded since 2004 with LAME mp3. It's not even that I think the quality is "that" much better than most of my AAC (other than the itunes 128 bitrate garbage), but now that I am no longer buying from itunes and have been downloading from Amazon and Emusic over the past year or so, I'd like consistency in my collection and I don't want to be tied to AAC anymore.

So, I'll be doing this for the next century or so...I'm up to disc 4:)
 
You could always rip all your cds as Apple Lossless and then convert them to 256 AAC (VBR) for your iPod. That's what I'm doing.

I'm storing all the Apple Lossless versions of my cds on my external hard drive (backed up obviously) and then converting them to AAC for iTunes and my iPod. If I ever need a better quality version, I can just use the lossless version to create it.

My biggest reason for doing this was so that I don't ever (hopefully) have to redo the ripping process again, just encoding.

This is what I want to do... but I want to keep the AAC on the iMac and lossless on my external hard drive. Any suggestions?
 
Now that I'm on this kick, I decided to get rid of all my music from "questionable" sources as well, and purchase what I want to keep either on emusic, amazon mp3, or from second hand cd's.

I'm going for library purity at this point....
 
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