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In regard to the OP's post commenting on unboxing pictures and videos... it's just a bit of fun. Lighten up!

Personally I like both Windows and Mac. I just use one or the other when I feel like it. It's not an either/or thing. You can use one as your main computer and the other as a notebook. Personally, I think Leopard is amazing but not the most intuitive... now I'm sure that comes from a lifetime of using Windows... but I'm willing to take the time to slowly learn!
 
I think pound for pound Leopard blows Vista out of the water. The interface is much better IMHO and it just seems to manage resources better than Vista. Not to mention the 50 different Vista flavors vs 1 Leopard that is full-featured.
 
The MBA superdrive needs extra juice to be powered over a single USB port, more juice than what regular USB ports provide. That's why it only works with the MBA (which includes the high power USB port specifically for the superdrive.) For other Macs you can buy a regular external drive that either uses 2 USB ports (for the extra juice), or one with an AC adapter.

As far as music and movie playback, I'm not sure what you mean. You don't have to use iTunes on any Mac computer. And you can use any number of music players with a Mac. They bundle iTunes with Mac OS X because almost everyone listens to music on their computer, so it makes sense to provide an app in the OS. Just like Windows comes with WMP, but you can use other software as well.

Apple does some things that seem unnecessarily restrictive and at times even user-hostile, just not sure your examples really illustrate that.


It's a business. They do everything they do to make money. They tell you they add iTunes to make stuff convenient, but really they KNOW you will use it if it is on the computer. I am not saying Windows doesn't do the same... the topic at hand was Apple, so I was just using the same example. Every business tries to make stuff "user-hostile" to ensure you keep on purchasing their products. They are called product enhancers. If Apple made Mac OS X compatible with PC's, their sales numbers on computers would be abysmal. Think about it.
 
So what's the difference between a Falcon and a Mac??? Seems like the same off-the-shelf designs to me.

How many Falcon's have hardware designed specifically for them by Intel?

Have you seen a Falcon PC? It's literally parts you can buy from any computer retailer. From the motherboard to the case and the drives. you pay a 3-4K premium for assembly and a paint job.

Try and buy parts to build an Apple machine. You'll get hard drives, video cards and memory. Everything else is designed specifically for the Apple hardware. The chassis, cooling system, motherboard, PSU ...

Take the optical drive door on a Mac Pro. On any other PC that would be just the drive door of an OEM optical drive painted silver or a hinged door that just gets physically pushed aside. Or the fans inside which are Apple designed to use a slide in holder with a built-in PCB and not just another 80mm fan stuck in a generic case bracket.
 
Apple just inflates the price because of the "value" that is perceived when one buys into this whole way of thinking. In the end, hardware is hardware and if Dell can sell a kick-ass system for half the price of a mac pro of similar specs then that is crap. And that is why people are fooled into feeling like they are to treat their beloved macs like little pet hamsters or poodles... Because they spent too much money over and over on apple products and need to make themselves feel better by putting their products on a pedestal.

You must have missed all the cost of parts/licensing breakdowns- namely the ones by iSuppli, which show that Apple products are not inflated. They simply use more expensive parts.
 
/snip/ Thank you all for listening to me with an (mostly) open mind. And even acknowledging the faults that do exist. You've all made my day better. God bless!

We are sending someone out to see if OP was kidnapped and someone swiped his passwords... ;)

I gotta sign onto your complaints about at least the dot-Mac sort of sync. I drew away from that after a couple of funky experiences where I wasn't quite sure what had happened but the results were less than stellar. I only use my idisk now for dragging up any actual files I might want to share to my other machines later. No more dotMac syncing bookmarks or addr books between machines. Maybe I'm cheating myself of great timesaving effects but I think of that day when I went "uh.. hmm. where's... hmm..." and put off my next sync adventure.

But I'm a big admirer of "awaiting shipment" threads and of unboxing photos, and I do keep my Apple / iPod boxes. One of my brothers used to josh me about it because I'd be so hyper as first-delivery days approached. "So did anybody put up a picture of the fricken BOX yet?" But, I noticed after the first nano came out he stopped making fun of me. I loaded a couple hundred songs onto my white nano and showed it to him and he went thumbing through the contents in complete silence. Finally he said "Damn. I could fit everything i own on this thing. What does the box look like?"
 
In answer to the original post...

Apple fanboyism is just part of the "culture" that has always sorrounded mac. I have been a mac user for over a year now and I actually think that part of the whole appeal of the mac experience is the fanboyism. I personally think Steve Jobs as a person is a deuschbag, but the man does have vision.
Then there is the mystique of Apple products. Microsoft usually announces new products years in advance while Apple keeps their cards pretty close to their chest, so you never know what's coming next. That anticipation and rumormongering just create an anticipation that you cannot find in any other company.

Yes, Apple is just another tech company that happens to make good products, but what actually SETS Apple apart from all others are precisely those fanboys you complain so much about. It is they who make Apple what it is and Apple knows it. Although they do occasionally threaten rumor sights with legal action when their "predictions" and "rumors" stray too close to the truth, all in all they pretty much leave them be and let the hype feed on itself. Even the legal threats are probably calculated to add to the Apple hype machine, pure marketing genius!

Apple also tends to have a kind of snobbish superiority complex that trickles down to the average mac user. But that is also part of the Apple "culture". In the end I have to say you are probably taking things too seriously. I see this more as an addition to my Apple experience and nothing more. Many copanies out there make windows machines which are excellent, and may compete with, and even exceed Apple computers in terms of features and price, but non can offer the unique experience of owning an Apple computer.

Apple computers are also beautiful machines. I bought a macbook air and I have to say nothing comes even close to it in beauty. Go to the nearest coffee shop and open up a brand new Sony TZ ultraportable with a macbook air right next to it and place your bet as to which one will get the more attention overall.

With that said the original poster had many valid and not so valid complaints, but in the end he just... doesnt get it.
 
But I'm a big admirer of "awaiting shipment" threads and of unboxing photos, and I do keep my Apple / iPod boxes.

stevegmu doesn't seem to be aware that almost every piece of electronic hardware that's highly anticipated will be unboxed on the internet. It's not an Apple thing, it's a male thing.

Guys get excited by blinky lights and the boxes they come in.

Here's three recent examples:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/ps3-unboxing/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/15/samsung-bd-up5000-gets-unboxed/
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/displays/sonys-sexy-xel+1-oled-display-gets-unboxed-328859.php
 
In answer to the original post...

Apple fanboyism is just part of the "culture" that has always sorrounded mac. I have been a mac user for over a year now and I actually think that part of the whole appeal of the mac experience is the fanboyism.

It is now, but that's only because of it's increased consumer interest. It used to be about celebrating being the underdog and appreciating something that was well designed and different to the Windows alternative.

I am in no way an Apple fanboy. I'll call them out on crap just as readily as I would any other consumer manufacturer.

Case in point the Air. I find it a great piece of engineering but a largely useless consumer device.
 
stevegmu doesn't seem to be aware that almost every piece of electronic hardware that's highly anticipated will be unboxed on the internet. It's not an Apple thing, it's a male thing.

Guys get excited by blinky lights and the boxes they come in.

Here's three recent examples:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/ps3-unboxing/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/15/samsung-bd-up5000-gets-unboxed/
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/displays/sonys-sexy-xel+1-oled-display-gets-unboxed-328859.php

I didn't say anything concerning unboxing. I posted in regards to price- post #57.
 
stevegmu doesn't seem to be aware that almost every piece of electronic hardware that's highly anticipated will be unboxed on the internet. It's not an Apple thing, it's a male thing.

Guys get excited by blinky lights and the boxes they come in.

Here's three recent examples:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/ps3-unboxing/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/15/samsung-bd-up5000-gets-unboxed/
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/displays/sonys-sexy-xel+1-oled-display-gets-unboxed-328859.php

yeah being a girl i can do without the blinking lights (that really IS a guy thing, isn't it) but i love how apple does boxes. And how its designs for iPods and now the MacBook Air are at once so austere and so sexy. I've been known to photograph my iPods with silk and velvet wraps, or more famously the black and the white original nanos sitting in a bowl of plum tomatoes just picked from my garden... a nod to simplicity as a component of luxury.

omg did you look through the unboxing pics in the second link. the fifth picture in from the left, only the mother and father of the Samsung BD-UP5000 could love that picture or be thrilled at that stage of that unboxing. I won't fault the product but really they might pay for some interior box design pointers...

And, sigh, I have to say that the remote for that thing obviously has even the special buttons for get me a beer while you're up honey.
 
I agree the fanboy thing is a bit annoying with Macs but I find it very interesting as well. Just the fact that there are fanboys for Mac is intriguing to me because what other huge corporation has followers like that? There are a few but you don't see it with Microsoft. As much as they annoy me they did make me sort of think there must be something to this whole Mac thing. (I don't own a Mac and never have but am "switching" soon)
 
It is now, but that's only because of it's increased consumer interest. It used to be about celebrating being the underdog and appreciating something that was well designed and different to the Windows alternative.

I am in no way an Apple fanboy. I'll call them out on crap just as readily as I would any other consumer manufacturer.

Case in point the Air. I find it a great piece of engineering but a largely useless consumer device.

:D now wait a sec. didn't you say that once about indoor plumbing? :confused:

Having purchased the MB Air, I will report promptly if it's useless!
 
Sorry to rerad about your issues.....

So what's the difference between a Falcon and a Mac??? Seems like the same off-the-shelf designs to me.

I want to thank you guys for being so well behaved. I must say, I was hesitant to even post my rant but this morning I was immediately pissed off when I walked into work...It was caused by several stupid quirks that I have dealt with in recent days... .mac syncing/duplicating everything, BTMM and my coworker who has been beaten down to a pile of dust with Apple issue after apple issue. He has been left with no choice but to pirate Apple software in order to feel as though he is still getting a good value from Apple products. Thank you all for listening to me with an (mostly) open mind. And even acknowledging the faults that do exist. You've all made my day better. God bless!

I have been an Apple user since 1988. I have purchased computers, monitors, ibooks, powerbooks, and iPods.

In all this time I guess I have been very lucky. I have only had 2 issues with software or sending a product back to Apple for repair. I have not had to pirate software, etc.

I had a Quadra 800 that had a failed HD, Apple sent a repair man to my studio, checked it out, ordered a new one, and returned to install it, (I could have done this myself.)

One iBook had some keys fall off, sent it to Apple, they paid for shipping both ways and I had it back in 2 days with no costs to me.

I started out with system 5 and have paid for every up grade of the OS since. I have had a few issues with some software and a couple of computers, but not like my PC friends. Nowhere near as many issues.

I am sorry you and your coworker have had issues, I wish you a better computing experience in the future.

One question: Has either you or your coworker called Apple tech support to resolve these issues? You do not say if your did or not!
 
:D now wait a sec. didn't you say that once about indoor plumbing? :confused:

Having purchased the MB Air, I will report promptly if it's useless!

For stevegut78, the OP, if he's still around: you originally wrote "screen-sharing", brother. *That* works fine on our D-Link router. BTTM is a mess.

For LizKat, "useless" isn't fair, or accurate. Impractical in comparison to other products in the Apple notebook line, that's fair. But I'm betting you didn't buy your Air on purely practical considerations. It's the defense of Air purchase, among some Air purchasers on this forum, by defining it as the perfectly engineered portable solution for some people -- having nothing to do with fashion or cachet or just ooh, shiny, gimme -- when it's no such thing for anyone, that drives some people up a wall. And you probably wouldn't argue the Air's aesthetic pleasantries weren't you first consideration in this case . But the Air is hardly useless.

In fact, put a 160GB drive in it, or steal more than half my CDs, blank the rips of them, blank my back-up drive, I'm there. I just won't go back to dealing with two Macs at once; I want everything on one portable*. Of course if I did buy one, I'll tell you flat-out I picked the Air over a regular MacBook -- which is still a very nice-looking kit -- because it I think it looks super whizzy cool, not because it's better or some kind of engineering marvel of thin, light design *and* practicality.

*I reserve the right anytime before they release a model with more hard drive storage to crater and buy one anyway. But for now, I'm holding on my current personal model, I believe a very good one, of most-efficient personal computing.

p.s. I'm male. I like Apple's boxes. Still the unboxing photos and movies seem whack to me, but to each his own. Now, for you, LizKat, I used to live pretty near the Catskills. I can see, in winter, smack dead middle of the Catskills, a nice selection of Apple unboxing photos might break the tedium a bit, keep you from axe-murdering your family and maybe the neighbors down the road.

p.p.s. I keep updating this silly post when I could be doing more practical things myself, but the UK novelist Will Self who once entirely embraced personal computers for his work -- the implication is he then became obsessive in using them for everything -- said in an interview maybe six months or a year back, he had become disenfranchised with computers as lifestyle foci, and he now wanted a notebook computer he could use for work or any other thing he wished to do with it, but one and only one which he could easily upend on a shelf off his desk, like a real book, when he wasn't using it. I reached that determination myself almost a year before *I read* he'd said this -- he may well have come to it first -- and the original MacBook hit that sweet spot for me: enough of everything, not much of everything else. The Air would certainly make for a thinner, lighter "book" to shelve up off my desk when not in use, but there's not enough value in that for the trouble in working out solutions to supplement the current inbuilt storage limitations. That's my only complaint.
 
Honestly, don't expect every product apple coughs out to be perfect. I use a Macbook Pro SR and I'm perfectly happy with it: I don't want an apple TV, I don't have an airport extreme, or a BT mighty mouse, and I don't plan to buy a Macbook Air.

I don't need my house to be ubiquitously lined with Apple products. I'll just buy key products from companies that make good ones. And since Apple makes good computers and a good OS, that's what I have.
 
Hey I'm not who said MacBook Air could be useless.

ArcaneDevice was who found it "it a great piece of engineering but a largely useless consumer device." I said I had bought it and would report if it proved useless. I did buy it for the weight. And, as a complementary machine. I cannot lug a 15" book up and downstairs all day any more. The work I ask of the Air is within its spec. The powerbooks are like desktops to me and now they'll be exclusively that. So how is that not perfect. For me. The buyer.

Would I like it more if it had 320Gb flash in there? I dunno, how much does that weigh? Same with the "missing" ports. Who needs them, they're down on the powerbooks and near a row of hard drives and other storage.

If the Air had looked really ugly to me would I have sprung a rat car's worth of money for it? Maybe. I wanted the 3 pounds!!! I'd have painted it bright yellow so that it could have been seen immediately as unmistakably ugly, in a sort of campy way.

As for the weather: yep, the Catskills in winter are a trip, especially when some nor'easter gets parked for awhile. Then you can't even get to your neighbor's place whether to borrow sugar or just commit axe murders when the cabin fever sets in. Fortunately I don't suffer from that syndrome. Or haven't so far. But I do really stock up in winter. Pantry looks like a survivalist fanatic lives here. And, one does. I want to live even if I can't get out for a month!

Winter means not being interrupted as much. In summer, people think to just "stop by" any time when they're not busy, doh. Because they come here when they're on vacation, we must be free to chat them up? Hmm. Bring on the snow! But I could do with less of the ice than what got dished out around here yesterday...
 
I want to take this opportunity to let out some frustrations that have been boiling inside of me for a while. I have been a Microsoft guy for quite some time and switched over to Apple last year. My reasons for making the switch was mainly because I did not see anything worthwhile in Vista and I liked the new features Leopard and felt that they would get good use. One thing that I have noticed since becoming an Apple user is that there is an overwhelming amount of fanboy activity which downright makes me feel like a giant vag.

Without reading the whole thread, I would like to say that this is an incredible post giving the 'site'. Obviously you will find ALL the fanatics on here! I have been a member since 2004 and hardly posted anything since then, as all I wanted was the 'gossip'.

I would say that less than 1% of Mac users are represented on here. How on earth can this make you feel that the OSX platform is a problem?

I love the fact that since 2004, there are still posts that amazes me!

Enjoy your hardware as it is very nice, but not the only way to live... :)

Regards,


C
 
I agree the fanboy thing is a bit annoying with Macs but I find it very interesting as well. Just the fact that there are fanboys for Mac is intriguing to me because what other huge corporation has followers like that? There are a few but you don't see it with Microsoft. As much as they annoy me they did make me sort of think there must be something to this whole Mac thing. (I don't own a Mac and never have but am "switching" soon)

If you had followed the life of this product you would understand why people are fanatical, or at least you would be able to appreciate how 'unlikely' we are to be here today. The Mac platform is a roller coaster ride from start to finish...

The guys who were laughed out of the room for using one only six years ago, are now experiencing a resurgence in the platform...

Regards,

C
 
Liz,

I caught that you didn't say it was useless. I was just backing up your feeling it's not useless.

There you kinda go, though, with the Air. I wasn't thinking of the PowerBook, rather a MacBook or MacBook Pro. Now, the Pro is more costly. The Air, slower with fewer features, connectivity and storage, is a $600 premium over the MacBook, for 2.2 pounds lighter -- essentially the weight of a pretty standard hardback novel; or a thick paperbound volume. Unless you're disabled -- and you may be, and I don't mean any offense at all writing this -- that 2 pounds is nothing by itself, lugging up and downstairs or not. So it seems like maybe, I'm just suggesting, you're a teensy bit justifying your aesthetics-favoring purchase with the practical notion of a lighter weight that isn't nearly as much as it may seem. And, all my point is, if you bought it over, say, a less expensive, more full-featured MacBook merely because you really like how it looks, I don't think you have to rationalize or justify it in any way.

In the event, no matter. If the two pounds is perceptively that much lighter to you, that's all that counts. Plus my perspective is different: up until a month ago, when both of them could finally, safely climb stairs, me trailing behind them as the security "catcher", I'd been, over the course of about three years, lugging two boys, eventually although at different times up to about 20 pounds each, and at one time about sum 35 pounds carrying both, up and down the stairs. A 10-pound Dell laptop monstrosity would, by comparison, be like an iPhone.

Please don't paint it yellow. Although, perhaps ironically, a lot of people would find that even "cooler".

As for the Catskills and surrounding region in winter, yes, I loved it. Quiet. Left alone. Back when I lived there, phone lines weren't redundant by whatever systems they have today; of course they tended to snap in snowstorms, so not even many phone calls. Bliss. (Ice often got the power, too, which was not quite as pleasant.) Starting late, late spring, lovely weather, weekenders and other summer people crawling all over the place like the NTSB on a commercial airline crash site. Ugh.

Hey I'm not who said MacBook Air could be useless.

ArcaneDevice was who found it "it a great piece of engineering but a largely useless consumer device." I said I had bought it and would report if it proved useless. I did buy it for the weight. And, as a complementary machine. I cannot lug a 15" book up and downstairs all day any more. The work I ask of the Air is within its spec. The powerbooks are like desktops to me and now they'll be exclusively that. So how is that not perfect. For me. The buyer.

Would I like it more if it had 320Gb flash in there? I dunno, how much does that weigh? Same with the "missing" ports. Who needs them, they're down on the powerbooks and near a row of hard drives and other storage.

If the Air had looked really ugly to me would I have sprung a rat car's worth of money for it? Maybe. I wanted the 3 pounds!!! I'd have painted it bright yellow so that it could have been seen immediately as unmistakably ugly, in a sort of campy way.

As for the weather: yep, the Catskills in winter are a trip, especially when some nor'easter gets parked for awhile. Then you can't even get to your neighbor's place whether to borrow sugar or just commit axe murders when the cabin fever sets in. Fortunately I don't suffer from that syndrome. Or haven't so far. But I do really stock up in winter. Pantry looks like a survivalist fanatic lives here. And, one does. I want to live even if I can't get out for a month!

Winter means not being interrupted as much. In summer, people think to just "stop by" any time when they're not busy, doh. Because they come here when they're on vacation, we must be free to chat them up? Hmm. Bring on the snow! But I could do with less of the ice than what got dished out around here yesterday...
 
I want to take this opportunity to let out some frustrations that have been boiling inside of me for a while. I have been a Microsoft guy for quite some time and switched over to Apple last year. My reasons for making the switch was mainly because I did not see anything worthwhile in Vista and I liked the new features Leopard and felt that they would get good use. One thing that I have noticed since becoming an Apple user is that there is an overwhelming amount of fanboy activity which downright makes me feel like a giant vag. Steve Jobs could re-invent the pet rock and you guys would be lined up ready to buy one. Even if you had already just purchased the pet pebble 2 months earlier. And to top it off, you would all be rushing to upload your video to proudly show us how to properly unbox our pet rock because, afterall, this is an Apple product and because Steve Jobs hypes it up so much it must be so revolutionary and ground breaking?!?! Who the hell posts unboxing videos/pics??? Why does Apple tout products and features like they are the pioneers? Why does the Back to my Mac feature rely on UPnP for routers and not simply port forwarding/NAT? Why the hell do I need an Airport which costs twice as much as any standard router in order to do screen sharing? Is it because screen sharing has only been tested with a handful of 3rd party routers??? It's about time screen sharing has become available, but I must say, Microsoft Remote Desktop sets up so much easier. Why in 2008 do I have duplicate entries in my Calendar and Address Book because I synced up with .Mac? I thought that sort of problem was the norm in 1997 with Palm Pilots and Psions? Why did I get duplicate widgets when syncing my widgets with .mac? I assumed that would be an OBVIOUS problem and I was so disgusted to see duplicate widgets on both of my Macs after syncing... Come on guys, it's 2008... People expect crap to just freakin work... Especially syncing.... Who really wants to futz around with this kind of crap? Why does one of the biggest Apple fans (who happens to sit 5ft away from me as I type this) have so much anger and frustration at Apple and Steve Jobs? Is it because he was one of the first to purchase the iPhone and has since been let down and still cannot copy/paste? Is it because in 2008 Safari crashes countless times on basic web sites? Is it because as a developer, he has sold his customer on Apple products and he still remains in a development stage because Apple has not released Java 6? It's been 1yr since Sun released Java 6... Get on it Steve!!!

It makes me sad to see you guys praise products such as the macbook air... What's so special? Apple TV... a failure... Im anxious to see how well TAKE 2 works out for Steve Jobs... Im sure now that it's been mentioned twice some people will feel obligated to buy it. Don't get me wrong, I still feel that Leopard is a better OS compared to Vista. But I am ashamed to walk into an Apple store only because the typical Apple fan is the epitome of the geek that I do not want to be associated with. I don't need a "genius" to tell me that the reason why my Mac Pro crashes so much is because I have a Microsoft mouse plugged into the USB port. Would they sell me another sorry "Mighty mouse"??? What kind of design is the mighty mouse? Who uses and enjoys using a mighty mouse? Why does Apple try and simplify computing and downplay the complexity of PC's yet they offer these bozo services such as training which shows me how to use Apple products? I thought Apple products just work?


i switched in 2005 and have had quite the opposite experience as you and have owned 8 macs to date with no problems. perhaps you should consider joining pcrumors.com... if you hate mac so much move on. life is too short. there are always going to be the fanatics when it comes to everything... you wont see me with the trekies and geniuses at macworld next year but as long as apples product works for me flawlessly ill keep buying...
 
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