Apple stock would plummet. Likely the only time Jobs will ever wear a suit again is while lying in state.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I'm starting to dislike every Apple Store worker I come across..
- Thread starter maclook
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Apple stock would plummet. Likely the only time Jobs will ever wear a suit again is while lying in state.
I think the Apple store employees are just fine. The two times I've been they were knowledgeable and polite. They also gave me no hassles. Who could ask for more than that?
But why cut off or disconnect with a huge potential segment of the market (retired middle-aged and elderly people tend to have more discretionary income to spend, at least in this area) just because of something such as attire? It's not a very smart business move to cut off a group of potential customers who have the money and are willing to spend it (on themselves, kids, grandkids, etc). It's certainly possible to allow your employees to "express themselves" through attire, while still keeping some basic guidelines. I have to do just this in golf course management. Traditional "golf attire" is not very attractive to most of my 20-something year old employees, but I can offer them a little freedom in that to push the boundaries a bit, wear what they want to (within reason), yet still fall in line with what the customers expect to see from golf course/clubhouse staff. Again, this might not be a huge issue all over, I just know that in this area (Atlanta metro), I hear lots of my customers/members in the 40 and up age bracket mention (they talk to me about it because they know I'm a Mac-head) how they went to the Apple Store to get something for their child/grandchild, but disliked talking to the "rude, punk kids" working the Apple Store. Just an observation as a business operator, that's all. I personally just overlook it, I know what I want before I walk in there.
Here in Taipei and in Bangkok at the Apple shops they are great with helping customers out and are beyond helpful. In the US they tell you that you will need to book an appointment for technical support and one has to pay for technical support which sort of reminds me of the poor service that one gets in Hong-Kong (Before you buy the computer the salesman seems to know everything but once you have bought the computer he no longer knows anything lol..)
All you are saying is that Apple could be more absurdly profitable if they appealed more to middle aged consumers? I submit if they required a dress-code they'd turn off a huge segment of their young, hip customers. You really can't have it both ways.
The way I see it it Apple tailors their employee hiring in any store to the community they are in. Of course the 5th Ave Manhattan store is gonna be filled up with hip, trendy types!
No, I'm saying there is a middle-ground to encompass the majority of each of these segments of potential customer bases. If you had the employees take out the piercings and earrings and such, toned down some of the "punkness" that some exhibit, but still wore the Apple t-shirts, allowed jeans, sneakers, etc, I'm 99% sure that the young, hip customers you speak of would still frequent the stores, still think of Apple as a "cool" company, yet they just might also pick up a few more customers on the other end of the spectrum, too. Customers with typically a lot more money to throw around than the 20 and under crowd.
It's going to vary across the country how good or bad the service at the Apple Store is going to be and generally will stem from management at that specific location.
You'll have managers who are all about the profit and are looking to make the most sales. Then you have those who know the sales will come and are looking to maximize customer satisfaction. Working for both the Apple Store and AppleCare in the GTA, I can honestly say that Apple in the GTA isn't that bad. I won't speak on the Apple Store since I was only there as a seasonal employee but will speak on my experience working in AppleCare.
My team leaders were in no business to screw over callers PERIOD. We as AppleCare agents were actually given pretty much the power to do anything. Generally if you wanted to do something but the customer was not eligible or there were other problems, they put it on us to basically decide what to we should do to help the customer. That made the job so much more easier. Obviously if a person was 3 years out of AppleCare or whatever, we weren't giving away free support. Instead if they were out of phone support, we would hear them out and then go from there. It was no point of wasting the customers time telling them to go to the Apple Store because they couldn't eject the disc in the SuperDrive when it would be much more simpler to tell them to hold the trackpad button down while booting up. Stuff like that helped us avoid the easy confrontation if we were to deny that customer and made the job so much more easy.
Again, in the perfect world, you would like the business to be the same everywhere but there are some people who power trip. I'm happy that I didn't have to work with those people.
You'll have managers who are all about the profit and are looking to make the most sales. Then you have those who know the sales will come and are looking to maximize customer satisfaction. Working for both the Apple Store and AppleCare in the GTA, I can honestly say that Apple in the GTA isn't that bad. I won't speak on the Apple Store since I was only there as a seasonal employee but will speak on my experience working in AppleCare.
My team leaders were in no business to screw over callers PERIOD. We as AppleCare agents were actually given pretty much the power to do anything. Generally if you wanted to do something but the customer was not eligible or there were other problems, they put it on us to basically decide what to we should do to help the customer. That made the job so much more easier. Obviously if a person was 3 years out of AppleCare or whatever, we weren't giving away free support. Instead if they were out of phone support, we would hear them out and then go from there. It was no point of wasting the customers time telling them to go to the Apple Store because they couldn't eject the disc in the SuperDrive when it would be much more simpler to tell them to hold the trackpad button down while booting up. Stuff like that helped us avoid the easy confrontation if we were to deny that customer and made the job so much more easy.
Again, in the perfect world, you would like the business to be the same everywhere but there are some people who power trip. I'm happy that I didn't have to work with those people.
I don't hate the employees though a number of them can come off as being arrogant and treat the unwashed masses as unworthy of their knowledge.
Overall, most of the people I've dealt with inthe apple stores have been helpful and polite.
What I do hate is the actual apple stores. Just empty space with tables, when they first started opening up apple stores they had aisles full of software and ipod stuff. Now I see a the software tucked away in the corner they only carry a few titles.
Overall, most of the people I've dealt with inthe apple stores have been helpful and polite.
What I do hate is the actual apple stores. Just empty space with tables, when they first started opening up apple stores they had aisles full of software and ipod stuff. Now I see a the software tucked away in the corner they only carry a few titles.
Are you defending their lies? Seriously, the difference between a $600 PC and a $2500 PC is 410%. They would over-pay by 410% and you defend this?
That's only because it's the fastest connection Apple gives its users. Without eSata or USB 3.0, what would we use?
Seconded. I've been to a couple of local Apple stores a handful of times and the staff at both are astonishingly helpful.
They bent over backwards when I bought my MBP (a decision I'd made before entering the store, so it wasn't one they'd had to talk me into), and even went so far as to get me a discount I wasn't actually eligible for... and, on a separate occasion, replaced my mother's iPod Nano on the spot for the least little problem without so much as a question.
I'm wondering if it's perhaps a locational / regional thing, the issue of people experiencing bad service; for all my talk of how wonderful my local branches are, a friend of mine (who lives a couple hundred miles away) has been turned off Apple completely by poor customer service in his local store...
I think some of you need to grow some balls. If I walk into a store for something I buy it. The magic word you use is NO if they say it more than twice then simply say 'look I want this I don't want extras kept it up you lose a sale' works every time.
If you think apple is bad try pc world.
If you think apple is bad try pc world.
Anyone who can shell out $2500 CASH for a PC is not dumb enough to overpay if they only really needed a netbook. Are you serious?
Every Specialist on the floor should have an EasyPay (mobile check-out) with them. The new iPod Touch based EasyPays that Apple rolled out around Thanksgiving easily complete a transaction 5-10x faster than the old ones that were running Windows Mobile on that Symbol device.
Every store has at least one. It's used for customers that write checks, customers that want to split a payment up over multiple cards, and in some stores, customers that pay with cash.
Apple uses the Net Promoter method (via a third-party) to track customer/employee experiences with their retail stores. If you give Apple your email address/permission during a transaction (sales/repair/training) at the store (and also give them permission to contact you), you're likely to get an email asking you to rate your experience in the store. If not, you can go to http://www.apple.com/retail/feedback at any time. An overall rating of 6 or less will generate a call back from store management.
If you actually follow what Apple has done with its retail stores over the last few years, you'd see that they're constantly making operational adjustments based on customer input. They close busy stores (for weeks) to change the physical layout, they'll create new systems for customers to use (like Personal Shopper, or completely refresh the Concierge system), they'll create new in-store positions to assist customers (Concierge, Family Room Specialist). And if something doesn't work, they'll nix it, like how they're removing the Concierge in-store position, and replacing all of their older, slower EasyPay devices.
Their stores are far from perfect, but the Net Promoter scores that customers are giving them currently rates them second only to Nordstrom, and easily 20x better than places like Best Buy.
If you're looking at it from a strictly "what would it take to ring up the customers waiting with iPod cases in their hands" point-of-view, perhaps.
But if you really watch an Apple store, and the number of customers that walk in with the "We have a PC that's about to die, and we're thinking of getting a Mac but don't know anything about it" scenario, you'll quickly see your employees get tied up for 30-45 minutes, sometimes an hour -- with the same customer.
Seems to me that Apple's combating that by putting more people on the floor. If you happen to catch a store when there aren't a lot of "customers needing a lot of information", then yeah, it'll seem way overstaffed.
At the nearest Apple Store, that "register" is at the Genius Bar, and it is almost always being used as a Genius terminal/workstation, and they have to complete their operation before it can be used as a register. Very annoying. And with the lengthy lines that are usually there for Genius appointments, it seems they should increase the store space dedicated to the Genius Bar area, and separate this one and only register from it.
If Apple is really into keeping that much detail about their store operations (and I'm sure they are), then they would also know when best to staff this many employees, and only do it during the time periods that show the traffic to need that many employees. For instance, if during the weekdays, from opening to around 3:00pm, shows you have very little customer traffic, with maybe a slight spike near lunch (like the store near me), then efficient management would dictate that you do not need 10-15 floor employees, not including Geniuses/back room people, standing around in groups while 4 or 5 customers walk around the store periodically. Even with the high of a ratio of employees to customers during this time, it STILL takes on average 30 minutes to walk in and purchase even an iPhone/iPod case. This is the stuff I'm talking about. It just seems like an extreme waste of resources to have a store so staffed during proven slow times.
And thank you for including the link to retail store feedback. I wasn't aware of this, and will definitely use this from now on.
For new purchases of iphone accessories perhaps but for Mac service they've become very difficult to deal with. After helping two co-workers try to get service at the Apple store (2 different stores in the SE US) it was very clear they look for ways to deny service.
In one instance my co-worker took his daughter's MBP in explaining the unit got very hot, turning her legs pink and powered off. The "genius" opened the memory door on an older MBP and declared water damage, pointing to a crystalline bit in the corner. When assured they was no water damage he replaced the screws and returned the laptop, saying, best to buy a new one since the repair with be over $1000. I had him ship the unit to me. I took the time to actually remove the RAM chips and discovered one had completely burst and burned. The burning smell was still strong. Had this so-called genius even taken the time to remove the chips he would have seen this. I called Applecare and they immediately sent a shipping box and repaired the unit.
For all service I recommend calling Applecare or better yet using a reliable local authorized service center. Both are not nearly so eager to deny service.
Cheers,
I happened to get a gal who was going on her lunch break in 30 minutes so i was out of there in 20! Thats the trick.
What I found on this visit, though, is that Apple hired people with clearly little product knowledge. Neither knew that the Mini has a Firewire Port! Pretty sad.
Luckily I knew what I wanted-$799 Mini, Applecare, iWork, and the free HP Printer. Quick and painless.
Now if i could only find a Monitor, wired keyboard and mouse that I actually like everything would be groovy.
I've shopped several times in the Belfast Apple Store and have always been in and out in minutes. I usually use the staff who are floating around with the handheld payment devices.
Assuming anyone who voices their opinion is a kid is childish in itself, so regardless of age, you should question your own maturity.
Back on topic, like a couple responses i read, i made this thread after coming back from an apple store and being extremely frustrated with the workers i encountered. This was never an issue when I first got my mac a few years ago, and I can't speak for every employee of course (there are gems out there). I'm not bashing Apple, I'm criticizing their hiring process since it is important because these people become associated with the company. The customer experience is nowhere near as terrible as the now extinct Circuit City but having any computer knowledge puts me in the position where I will become aggravated by employees' smart a$$ attitudes. It's as if they feel like they need to be smarter than you since they work there. I'm really not trying to compete (@flippinloud - your story is similar to mine). This extends to the genius bar, where (on 2 or 3 occasions for me) the genius gets intimidated if I know more than he does concerning the issue. There were two specific times when I had researched the issue online beforehand, and in the process of explaining everything that I read the genius would stop me and act like he had everything under control.
I don't blame Apple since they're in the process of winning over a lot of new PC-to-Mac customers and so hiring really basic employees to explain the fundamentals is working for them. While it's so easy to find someone on a site like macrumors who is on the same knowledge level (and many times above my level) to get help, it's frustrating if i ever need help at the store because i have been bumping into employees with no knowledge whatsoever but the ego that says otherwise. (that's my problem with the apple stores, i have no beef with the time it takes or anything else like that. just the type of people they have been hiring really bug me)
I too have noticed this changing of the attitudes of the Geniuses towards customers, and is one of the reasons I mentioned the smugness of Apple Store employees in my first post. I have seen them go from being truly helpful and nice to customers to being almost rude, arrogant, and a bit defensive toward customers over the past couple of years. I honestly think some of that change has to deal with the iPhone and iPod Touch, and the amount of customer fraud they (Apple) has dealt with over customer damages that they (the customer) have passed off as manufacturing defects (example=all the water damage issues that people try to sneak past them). I remember with my first iPhone, I had two serious issues with it, took it to the Genius Bar and they were extremely helpful, smiling, chatting, and exchanged them both without a moment's hesitation. The last 3GS I witnessed returned (went with a friend to exchange his) was completely different. The Genius poured over the device, checking the sensors, and had just an awful attitude toward my friend, asking him question after question saying "iPhones don't just usually quit working after a few months like this...". I know they have been scammed quite often, but at least give a customer that has no prior returns on his record the benefit of a doubt. The lower half of his screen had become unresponsive to touch, which seems to have a documented occurrence frequency (I've seen this problem listed on here quite often). If you're in my particular local store often, you overhear this "new" Genius attitude toward customers quite often now. They aren't too friendly anymore...they have a real defensive attitude toward Apple products having defects.
Here, in the San Francisco Bay Area, the Apple store employees are quite courteous and knowledgeable.
With this seemingly similar employee type that has been described at many different retail locations by several different people in this thread (the big ego, smarta$$ but uneducated on the products type), do you guys think that this is a result of Apple specifically looking for this trait in hiring, or that it's established after hiring? Kind of like an orientation where they are told that "the general public are sheep and don't know what they need/want until we (Apple) tell them"....this isn't really too far off from S. Jobs attitude toward the general public, after all.
Maybe that's because they're close to HQ?
In my experience, Apple's customer service is almost beyond reproach, until you get to the stores, which are a whack-a-mole game of finding someone who's not a pretentious know it all. Some are, some aren't. It just comes down to which one you get on the day you go in.
I didn't used to be this way. I noticed that this has all come to fruition since the intro of the iPhone. I think in Apple's quest to increase their customer base, which they have and there is nothing wrong with that, they have also opened up the doors to anyone who has the slightest, most minute issue. Plus the amount of bs they have to put up with regarding troubleshooting and repairs.
"I dropped water on my MacBook Pro, how dare AppleCare not cover the damage!" and so on and so forth.
All the ridiclous expectations people have and the attitude that the genuises and the store employees get probably makes them give back in kind, even if it's unwarranted.
I mean, let's face it, people are crappy, selfish, annoying, entitled, bubble-living twits. At least society in general seems to be going in that direction
But then again, I live in LA. It's a breeding ground of self-delusion. So I might be biased there.
Maybe that's because they're close to HQ?
In my experience, Apple's customer service is almost beyond reproach, until you get to the stores, which are a whack-a-mole game of finding someone who's not a pretentious know it all. Some are, some aren't. It just comes down to which one you get on the day you go in.
I didn't used to be this way. I noticed that this has all come to fruition since the intro of the iPhone. I think in Apple's quest to increase their customer base, which they have and there is nothing wrong with that, they have also opened up the doors to anyone who has the slightest, most minute issue. Plus the amount of bs they have to put up with regarding troubleshooting and repairs.
"I dropped water on my MacBook Pro, how dare AppleCare not cover the damage!" and so on and so forth.
All the ridiclous expectations people have and the attitude that the genuises and the store employees get probably makes them give back in kind, even if it's unwarranted.
I mean, let's face it, people are crappy, selfish, annoying, entitled, bubble-living twits. At least society in general seems to be going in that direction
But then again, I live in LA. It's a breeding ground of self-delusion. So I might be biased there.
Much better way of what I was attempting to say a couple of post ago about the recent attitude changes I've noticed, especially with the Geniuses.
Yeah, having managed restaurants in a prior life (and always having to worry about controlling labor %), it makes me cringe when I see a place with a lot of non-busy employees.
I think a lot of this comes down to the individual mgmt of each store (and I guess I've lucked out that the store near me seems to run well, most of the time).
For example, they always have a check-out open at the Genius Bar.
They also always have at least one (low-volume) to four or five (high-volume) Specialists stationed in the software/cases/peripheral area, checking people out with their EasyPays, before they make it back to the regular check-out. If you come up to them with a sales/technical issue, they use a headphone and call someone else to help you. And if they get swamped with customers checking out, they'll use the headphone and call for assistance. I can't see getting caught in there for 30 minutes and not being able to pay.
They also seem to always have at least one manager on the floor, watching everything and moving the people around as needed.
It's too bad not all Apple stores seem to have as much floor control. Oh well.
Yeah, having managed restaurants in a prior life (and always having to worry about controlling labor %), it makes me cringe when I see a place with a lot of non-busy employees.
I think a lot of this comes down to the individual mgmt of each store (and I guess I've lucked out that the store near me seems to run well, most of the time).
For example, they always have a check-out open at the Genius Bar.
They also always have at least one (low-volume) to four or five (high-volume) Specialists stationed in the software/cases/peripheral area, checking people out with their EasyPays, before they make it back to the regular check-out. If you come up to them with a sales/technical issue, they use a headphone and call someone else to help you. And if they get swamped with customers checking out, they'll use the headphone and call for assistance. I can't see getting caught in there for 30 minutes and not being able to pay.
They also seem to always have at least one manager on the floor, watching everything and moving the people around as needed.
It's too bad not all Apple stores seem to have as much floor control. Oh well.
I figure it is determined store by store, but I guess I just feel like Apple corporate would see that it's run a bit more efficiently than it current is. And of the several stores in the Atlanta area, I haven't had much better luck with any of them, although the North Point location seems slightly better. And as far as the 30 minutes or so to check out, during even moderately busy times I've witnessed customers put items down in frustration after waiting to pay for so long, and finally giving up. Yes, as much as I've had issues with this store, I'm in it almost every time I go to the mall, as I just like tinkering with things, and through frequent purchasing have developed friendships with a few of the more personable employees there. I only purchase when they are working.