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Hetman said:
I use [my Rev A iMac G5] for Video/Audio editing with Final Cut. Therefore I added 2 gigs of matched RAM and put it to good use. I was told that you get better performance if your RAM is matched not only in size but if it's also from the same batch. That can't be done with the new iMac. Will there be a preformance cut? Is it still worth my upgrading to the new machine? besides not having a modem you will also no longer use a VESA attachment on the new machines (attching an arm or haning your mac on a wall) both of which are not deal breakers for me. My only concern is the RAM right now. FCP and Motion do work better with more RAM but 2.5 GIG is a strange number. Will it work as well as matched RAM on my Mac?
There is no question of 128- vs. 64-bit access in the iMac iSight (DDR-2) machines. You get DDR-2 RAM at 533 MHz, straight up. Whether that is higher performance than 128-bit access PC3200 isn't tested yet (and the advantage of 128-bit over 64-bit was mostly in synthetic benchmarks anyway).

Theoretically, DDR-2 533 MHz should be a small improvement orver DDR 400 MHz -- but we have a "weakest link" scenario here -- gains in one area cannot speed the machine up past the limitations of the next most restrictive bottleneck, which in this case would be the front side buss, the CAS Latency of the RAM, and the 'mesh' between the processor clock speed, the FSB and the RAM.

In the other issues, the X600XT video in the 20" should be an improvement on the Radeon 9600 (Barefeats says up to 50% faster core and 85% faster video memory speed -- not that that will translated into real-world improvements of anywhere near that magnitude). It may be true that the X600XT is comparable to a 9600XT in the PC, but remember that the iMac used a motherboard version of the 9600 that was not an XT: and there is plenty of performance difference 9600 to 9600Pro to 9600XT.

The heat issues should be solved with the new chassis.

Thanks
Trevor
CanadaRAM.com
 
CanadaRAM said:
...The heat issues should be solved with the new chassis.

Based on a Temp monitoring widget, my new 17inch iMac is running at around 50 in general. Upto a high of 65'C so far when I was rendering an iDVD project for burning. The great thing is that the new model is very quiet, even when the fans are going.
 
The problem with incorporating a TV tuner is that Apple will have to come up with regional differences, Secam, Pal, NTSC etc, then of course there's DTT, HD as well.

Probably better to let the likes of Elgato sort it all out for them, although I can see Elgato being bought by Apple in the long run.

My 20" 2.1mhz iMac G5 is on order, I should get it sometime next week, I've already ordered an additional 1mb of RAM for it, so I'll report back about the slot availability.
 
groobster said:
The problem with incorporating a TV tuner is that Apple will have to come up with regional differences, Secam, Pal, NTSC etc, then of course there's DTT, HD as well.

Probably better to let the likes of Elgato sort it all out for them, although I can see Elgato being bought by Apple in the long run.

My 20" 2.1mhz iMac G5 is on order, I should get it sometime next week, I've already ordered an additional 1mb of RAM for it, so I'll report back about the slot availability.

I thought it had 2.1 Ghz rather than 2.1 Mhz.....
 
I'm surpised the Barefeats rev C iMac GPU tests haven't been mentioned in this thread.

http://www.barefeats.com/im21b.html

Here's an excerpt:

ANALYSIS OF GRAPHICS INTENSITY

These are impressive gains by the iMac G5/2.1 with Radeon X600 XT over the previous
iMac G5/2.0 with Radeon 9600. The 3D Games were as much as 46% faster. iMaginator,
our Core Image tester, ran 108% faster!

What startled us was that it beat the Dual Core G5/2.0 Power Mac (GeForce 6600LE)
running iMaginator and Halo. It tied it running Motion 2.
 
I missed that. My iMac has been shipped to Amsterdam...Apple say it'll take 7 days to get to Leeds. Argh.
 
How to make my 20" show off??

Hi everyone
I live in Nth Qld Australia and have ordered a 20" 2.1 imac g5 with 1 g ram and also elgato eyetv 410. I know the imac is not really designed as a games machine but if I wanted a game to really showoff it's graphical power, what would I go for?
 
Doom 3 would show it off quite well, but it get's a bit boring after a while. Homeworld 2 looks good...and it's sci fi!
 
subtlefly said:
Hi everyone
I live in Nth Qld Australia and have ordered a 20" 2.1 imac g5 with 1 g ram and also elgato eyetv 410. I know the imac is not really designed as a games machine but if I wanted a game to really showoff it's graphical power, what would I go for?

UT2004 :confused:
 
fudongshi said:
Anybody know of which make and model the new superdrive is???

Here is what is says in System Profiler about the Superdrive on my iMac 2.1 ghz:

MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-846:

Firmware Revision: FA0G
Interconnect: ATAPI
Burn Support: Yes (Apple Shipped/Supported)
Cache: 2048 KB
Reads DVD: Yes
CD-Write: -R, -RW
DVD-Write: -R, -RW, +R, +RW, +R DL
Burn Underrun Protection CD: Yes
Burn Underrun Protection DVD: Yes
Write Strategies: CD-TAO, CD-SAO, DVD-DAO
Media: No
 
I have found three problems with my 2.1Ghz 20inch iMac.


Nobody supports the x600xt. ATi only support the x800 and above series for Apple computers, Apple do not support it either. So, no new drivers, no way to configure the settings (please tell me if you can, I'm new to Mac's, Apple support had no idea and ATi wouldn't help as it's unsupported by them). Image quality in 3D apps is just diar, hence why i want to change a few settings.

RAM - The internal RAM is hard wired to the motherboard, there's no way you can run dual channel, and one socket takes the pee.

Oh, and no hash on the UK keyboards sucks, I have to run it in USA international settings. Not too good if your a programmer or do web design.




I have bought all these up with Apple. Keyboards has been sorted and it is being revised, and ATi do not want to support the x600 series for Apple's, Apple were not too happy wih ATi.


Mightly mouse is awful too, I've ended up running it in single button mode, or when my hand gets tired because it feels awful, I use a logitech cheap £10 mouse.
 
i sold the mighty mouse that came with my imac on ebay, some guy bought it for full price! :cool: , i dont like microsoft but i am a fan of their mice. other than that my new imac is lovely! :eek:
 
howesey said:
I have found three problems with my 2.1Ghz 20inch iMac.
Nobody supports the x600xt. ATi only support the x800 and above series for Apple computers, Apple do not support it either. So, no new drivers, no way to configure the settings (please tell me if you can, I'm new to Mac's, Apple support had no idea and ATi wouldn't help as it's unsupported by them). Image quality in 3D apps is just diar, hence why i want to change a few settings.
What? The machine has been out 1 month and the video card drivers are in the OS... What are you asking about. Configure the settings -- how?

howesey said:
RAM - The internal RAM is hard wired to the motherboard, there's no way you can run dual channel, and one socket takes the pee.
We have covered this before. The PowerMac G5s are there for those for whom dual-channel memory access is a dealbreaker. This is a consumer machine, afterall.

howesey said:
Mightly mouse is awful too, I've ended up running it in single button mode, or when my hand gets tired because it feels awful, I use a logitech cheap £10 mouse.
Mighty mouse is Apple's noew standard - I just put on Microsoft Intellimouse Opticals and have done with it, no matter what Apple mouse comes.
 
Yeah, Mighty Mouse sucks ass. Logitech 310 is a nice mouse to use. I'd like to try that laser one (G5?) that Logitech have but they don't make the drivers for Mac. You can use third party programs though.
 
CanadaRAM said:
What? The machine has been out 1 month and the video card drivers are in the OS... What are you asking about. Configure the settings -- how?
How can you force AA (including temporal), change LOD, anisotropic filtering etc? There's no options in the OS to do this.

Defaults seem to be no AA, awful textures... Makes em want to scream when using 3D apps/games.
 
CanadaRAM said:
We have covered this before. The PowerMac G5s are there for those for whom dual-channel memory access is a dealbreaker. This is a consumer machine, afterall.
That, and I've got the previous iMac running with 1GB. Didn't see a difference between 2 512s running in dual mode and 1GB stick. 2GB seems to speed some things up though, dual channel or no. 2.5 must be nice in the new machines, if you can afford it. Would have been nice to have 4GB though. :D
 
CanadaRAM said:
What? The machine has been out 1 month and the video card drivers are in the OS... What are you asking about. Configure the settings -- how?
I can only think of the extra setting/panel you get with the retail card and ATI drivers -- which need to be hacked to work on the OEM cards.

Probably talking about these functions which aren't part of the OS, but ATI's drivers and may need a hack to work on OEM cards.
 
howesey said:
How can you force AA (including temporal), change LOD, anisotropic filtering etc? There's no options in the OS to do this.

Defaults seem to be no AA, awful textures... Makes em want to scream when using 3D apps/games.
ATI just added the new iMac's X600 to their ATIccelerator software:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/
 
This is a good thread. Thanks for the info all!

I just ordered a Rev. C 20" this morning. My old Rev. A 17" is getting passed down to my parents...so now my immediate family will be completely windows-free!

...well, except for my work laptop...
 
fklehman said:
P.S.: do we know yet what kind of G5 is in there? the 3x bus multiplier is odd. Is that jut Apple hobbling the iMac for product differentiation, or might there be a different proc in there? There's been specualtion elsewhere that it's the low-power G5 overclocked to 1.9/2.1 because heat has been an issue in the previous iMacs and even overclocked the 970GX (that's the low-power one right?) gives off less heat. Just a thought.

First, the G5 itself supports all kind of multipliers, like 2, 2.5, 3 and probably a few more so there is nothing weird about a 3x multiplier per se. Now why did they choose this multiplier? There are two important things with memory access: Bandwidth and latency. Latency is on the order of 100 nS. At 2 GHz, that is about 200 processor cycles. Whether the bus runs at 2x or 3x doesn't make the slightest differences (the only difference is that you wait 100 bus cycles at 2x or 67 bus cycles at 3x, but the time is the same).

The other thing is bandwidth. Here the multiplier has some importance: A G5 can both read and write four bytes every eight out of nine bus cycles (in other words, it can both read and write 32 bytes every nine bus cycles). At 2.1 GHz and 2x multiplier, 1050 MHz bus, that would be 3733 MByte per second, both read and write. At 3x multiplier, 700 MHz bus, that would be 2489 MByte per second, both read and write.

If you do reads and writes simultaneously, you would need RAM chips capable of handling 7466 MByte per second, or the 1050 MHz bus is wasted. Even at 700 MHz, the RAM chips won't be able to handle the 4978 MByte/second maximum. If you only read or only write, then there is a good chance that the processor won't need more than 2489 MByte/sec anyway. So 700 MHz bus speed is unlikely to slow you down, and it will save a lot of money (building a 1050 MHz part connecting to RAM is much much harder than building a 700 MHz part); it will use less power and make the machine much easier to build.

For the towers, it is a bit different: There are two processors, so they can produce twice as many reads/writes per cycle than a single processor, and they both go through the same bus. The RAM is also doubled and can provide twice as much bandwidth. In this configuration, the 700 MHz bus would be the bottleneck. In a tower, two of the three parties involved (CPU and RAM) can handle twice as much bandwidth, so you want the bus speed improved as well.

I would be curious to run some serious memory benchmarks on a quad processor system: I am sure there the memory must be the limiting factor (there are four CPUs instead of two, two buses instead of one, but the same memory).
 
howesey said:
Oh, and no hash on the UK keyboards sucks, I have to run it in USA international settings. Not too good if your a programmer or do web design.

Hash key has been option-3 for many many many years.
 
solvs said:
That, and I've got the previous iMac running with 1GB. Didn't see a difference between 2 512s running in dual mode and 1GB stick.

Well, you wouldn't note a difference. Just because you put in two 512Meg chips doesn't mean it runs in dual mode. You will only get dual mode on machines that _require_ pairs of identical RAM chips, like the towers.
 
gnasher729 said:
Well, you wouldn't note a difference. Just because you put in two 512Meg chips doesn't mean it runs in dual mode. You will only get dual mode on machines that _require_ pairs of identical RAM chips, like the towers.
Well, actually the last 2 models of the iMacs supported dual channel if you are running 2 of exactly the same sticks. It's supposed to add up to a 15% performance increase, but in real world stuff you don't really notice.
 
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