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DGFan said:
For a class full of students I think the iMacs are a waste of money. Schools around me are shedding teachers because they have no budget yet your school is prepared to overspend on computers. What gives?

FYI there is a federal program called 'e-rate' that buys computers for a lot of schools, it's tied to the 'leave the child behind', er 'no child left behind' act of our fearless leader in the US.

You can't use it on anything but computing. I've seen a lot of schools go bonkers and buy networking gear that rivals the largest corporation. Of course they could have this networking gear for 20 years before they even get $1 to update again, so who knows.
 
If Apple is introducing the Power5-UL-based PowerMac around the MWSF time frame, then there isn't a real big reason to hold back the consumer G5.
 
Expo Questions

Is it worth going for the 'ordinary' user or the potential switcher? I have been waiting for this update (my first Mac) for so long that I feel I would like to go.
Are most of the exhibits in French or English?
Is there much seating provided for the Keynote?
Can anybody recommend some reasonable accommodation convenient for the Expo?
Thanks for any help.
 
H.264/AV in a chip on-board the display 🙂
---gooddog

While I don't think it will happen, it's an interesting idea.

Here's some number to show why it won't work:

A 23" display (the new model) has a resolution of 1920x1200, or 2,304,000 pixels. Each pixel takes 3 bytes of information to represent all the colors for a total of 6,912,000 or ~6.6MB/s of bandwidth, this is right at the edge of the theoretical max speed of WiFi and only allows for 1 frame/update per second. A refresh rate of 60hz requires bandwidth of 414,720,000 or ~400MB/s.

You would need nearly loss-less compression of about 130:1 to get the data for the 23" display over WiFi.

The only feasible way for this to work is for Apple to design a completely new LCD panel that doesn't require a complete refresh every 1/60th of a second. Such a display would leave a pixel a given color until told to change it again.
Such a display would require a complete redesign of the system, display card, and display panel and moving large portions of functionality from the display card to the display itself.

You can't simply move the entire card to the display and just send the Quartz/OpenGL/etc commands over WiFi because sending the textures and such would be very slow over WiFi compared to the AGP port.
 
Interesting

I discovered this today.

To summarize their 'info' on the new iMac:

Some new iMac specs:


  • Single G5 Processor 1.6GHz, 1.8GHz, 2.0GHz
  • 256MB RAM (minimum)
  • 32MB VRAM (minimum)
  • 60GB HDD (minimum)
  • SuperDrive standard on the top two models, optional on base model
  • One open PCI slot
  • One FireWire 800 port, two FireWire 400 ports (one on front); three USB 2.0 ports (one on front)
  • Optical digital audio input, optical digital audio output, analog audio input, analog audio output, front headphone minijack and speaker
  • Optional AirPort Extreme, optional internal Bluetooth.

However the specs are interesting (except wondering on the vid card with 32MB min? That sounds way wrong to support this next statement:

On the top of the case is a strip of aluminum (identical to the case) from the back to a centered Apple logo in a contrasting material. Removing them reveals a mounting point for an articulating display arm and a cable management groove. The accessory arm is VESA compliant and will work with any other VESA compliant third party monitor, but of course will look best with Apple’s own monitors.

😱
Headless? Holy cow, you snap in the existing line of monitors. Not only does that answer a lot of whining I've seen on here but check this out:

In addition to sitting on a desk, the entire unit, monitor, arm and case, can be mounted flat against the wall for the ultimate in zero footprint computing.

Alternatively, the unit, (without the display and arm, and with the Apple logo blank piece back in place), can stack with the rest of your AV components because with new iLife software (iTV?) will act as a Digital Video Recorder


Now the article adds 'sorry TiVo, Replay, etc' like a smart ass. But I seem to remember a link somewhere about TiVo and Apple doing something more together (aside from iTunes integration) Could this be it? Could we see TiVo Basic on an iMac device and then you can upgrade to TiVo Plus a la the DVD/TiVo players like the two I have? I'll be annoyed if this is the case because I just ordered one (They're $199 at Best Buy, 80 hrs TiVo, DVD player, kick but unit and TiVo works for 3 days w/o season pass options for free)

OK, Now the 'piece de resistance' (sic)

“A highly sought after accessory will be a touch screen tablet that can ‘dock’ with the accessory arm. Call it iPad. Detached, it is powered by an on-board battery and allows remote control of iTunes or iTV and access to your AV media files while within range. It will function as a thin client and will link through AirPort Extreme. One iMac can support multiple iPads allowing simultaneous access, but only one iPad can access each account at a time. The iPad need not dock with the iMac to recharge. A companion charging stand will support the iPad like an easel and will allow Bluetooth connection to a mouse and keyboard. Alternatively, iPad will (finally) make use of Apple’s Inkwell handwriting recognition.

😱 😀 😱 😕

Good god that would rock. iMac not only a TiVo unit, home theater option, but something you can SHARE among family members in the house. Get two of these iPad devices and run two seperate accounts on one machine.

That would rock, would it not?
 
Trekkie said:
I discovered this today.

To summarize their 'info' on the new iMac:

Some new iMac specs:


  • Single G5 Processor 1.6GHz, 1.8GHz, 2.0GHz
  • 256MB RAM (minimum)
  • 32MB VRAM (minimum)
  • 60GB HDD (minimum)
  • SuperDrive standard on the top two models, optional on base model
  • One open PCI slot
  • One FireWire 800 port, two FireWire 400 ports (one on front); three USB 2.0 ports (one on front)
  • Optical digital audio input, optical digital audio output, analog audio input, analog audio output, front headphone minijack and speaker
  • Optional AirPort Extreme, optional internal Bluetooth.

However the specs are interesting (except wondering on the vid card with 32MB min? That sounds way wrong to support this next statement:

On the top of the case is a strip of aluminum (identical to the case) from the back to a centered Apple logo in a contrasting material. Removing them reveals a mounting point for an articulating display arm and a cable management groove. The accessory arm is VESA compliant and will work with any other VESA compliant third party monitor, but of course will look best with Apple’s own monitors.

😱
Headless? Holy cow, you snap in the existing line of monitors. Not only does that answer a lot of whining I've seen on here but check this out:

In addition to sitting on a desk, the entire unit, monitor, arm and case, can be mounted flat against the wall for the ultimate in zero footprint computing.

Alternatively, the unit, (without the display and arm, and with the Apple logo blank piece back in place), can stack with the rest of your AV components because with new iLife software (iTV?) will act as a Digital Video Recorder


Now the article adds 'sorry TiVo, Replay, etc' like a smart ass. But I seem to remember a link somewhere about TiVo and Apple doing something more together (aside from iTunes integration) Could this be it? Could we see TiVo Basic on an iMac device and then you can upgrade to TiVo Plus a la the DVD/TiVo players like the two I have? I'll be annoyed if this is the case because I just ordered one (They're $199 at Best Buy, 80 hrs TiVo, DVD player, kick but unit and TiVo works for 3 days w/o season pass options for free)

OK, Now the 'piece de resistance' (sic)

“A highly sought after accessory will be a touch screen tablet that can ‘dock’ with the accessory arm. Call it iPad. Detached, it is powered by an on-board battery and allows remote control of iTunes or iTV and access to your AV media files while within range. It will function as a thin client and will link through AirPort Extreme. One iMac can support multiple iPads allowing simultaneous access, but only one iPad can access each account at a time. The iPad need not dock with the iMac to recharge. A companion charging stand will support the iPad like an easel and will allow Bluetooth connection to a mouse and keyboard. Alternatively, iPad will (finally) make use of Apple’s Inkwell handwriting recognition.

😱 😀 😱 😕

Good god that would rock. iMac not only a TiVo unit, home theater option, but something you can SHARE among family members in the house. Get two of these iPad devices and run two seperate accounts on one machine.

That would rock, would it not?

That would rock if it could be sold to the public for about the same as current iMacs. Sounds like too much hardware to be sold as a consumer (as apposed to a 'pro') machine. More accurately, that guy just threw every bit if technology he ever wanted in an iMac into the list in hopes he could still get it for $1000. I mean, come on! A docking Phillips "iPronto" remote control, except that I have to use handwriting to change channels on my TV?! (j/k 🙂)

By the way, he left out the IEEE1001 (aka "Mr.Coffee") connectivity so that you can use your Bluetooth enabled phone or PDA to tell your iMac to use it's AirPort card to tell your AirPort Express to tell your TiVo to tell your coffee pot it's time for a fresh cup of joe 😀

Besides, the author of the article was just posting readers' "wish list" descriptions of the upcoming iMac. In other words, they were pulling specs. out of their butts much like we sometimes do here 🙂
 
sorryiwasdreami said:
[By searching for "half dome"]......Could he be hinting that the new iMac form factor will take half the footprint of the current, already space efficient, dome-shaped body?

Wow....some of y'all have way too much time on your hands...

Secret hints in developer conference keynotes? Half hidden allusions in geograpical terms?

C'mon....really.

This is a ten billion dollar company, not a secret society for geeks.
 
I was responding to a previous posting.

A docking station would be great on a future iMac though..

I've just read the posting above regarding the iMac 3...

WOW.. sounds excellent - IF IT IS TRUE! But the cost?? Sounds like it could be quite high, and you don't get a monitor either..

JJTiger1 said:
... and what do iPods have to do with predicting the future of the iMac?

Are you implying that you are wishing that the new iMac have a built-in holder-provision/station for the iPod?

That would be a great feature for an iMac, any Mac really. Built-in iPod docking station.



... iPod station already available with a new BMW attached. 😀
=-=
JJ
 
I have been following Apple for years and love the company and ill never go back to windoze; just for you out there that think im a newbie and dont know what im talking about. This is what i propose:

-G5 processor (single)
-built in lcd
-**expandability through PCMCIA slots. they take up a lot less space and do pretty much anything a PCI slot can do.
-revealed in Paris
-same price range
-aluminum enclosure and take advantage of VESA mounting
-vga/dvi in to double as a standalone monitor
-radical design


*i stopped by the local compusa today and test drive the new g5's and the sales person asked if i knew of the new imacs (i acted like i didnt) and he said that they would have g5's, an aluminum enclosure, and ship out the secong week in september. Whether he is correct is up in the air, but he did speak like he knew what he is talking about.

i never understood how and why Apple could/would keep there products soooo secret. No company will ever match them. It would be good if they gave some insight on an investment side of things.


Just my 2cents
 
All in one LCD IMac

I hope the new iMac will be an all in one flat panel display.
I first thought about this when I saw the new pro displays, look how thick they are... how nice to have the complete PC inside this hangable display.

USB and FW connectors are already there, all you need is a vertical CD drive.

I think Apple will drop the 15in and go with 17 and 20 only. Take the BTO bluetooth option, hang your iMac in your living room and you have the wireless screen we all want.

I hope Apple could add an optional TV input for the high end model and Boom, you have a TV/Mac combo.

They have to be G5 otherwise they won't be "next generation", I doubt they use Al enclosure because iMac isn't a pro mac, and come on Apple you can do better than gray !
 
daveway00 said:
i never understood how and why Apple could/would keep there products soooo secret. No company will ever match them. It would be good if they gave some insight on an investment side of things.
Just my 2cents

Most companies that make "cool" things keep them very secret until they are actually announced to the public. This is especially true when a company makes the "whole widget".

Try to find out anything about a new model of vehicle before the model year announcements, or the development of a feature film for the first 90% of its development, or next season's line from the top fashion houses.

We don't see this secrecy/hype with Dell, HP, Gateway, etc. because these companies use all stock and commodity parts in a plain box. By the time they release a new system we've already seen the new processor specs, we know what HD and video cards will/could be used. The only surprise it where the air vents will be and what color the LEDs and case will be.

With Apple, they work closely with suppliers to keep things secret and they challenge convention with their designs. They may use mostly commodity parts, but they assemble them in some unique ways.
This is very similar to the vehicle and clothing designers; all cars are made of the same stuff, all clothing is made from the same materials. It's how they are assembled that makes them unique and desirable (often at a premium price).
 
Just because...

bar italia said:
Why do you take the time to type this all out?

Let's see...

Because the macrumors audience deserves some humor...a break from the "why isn't my hardware here yet?" whining...and a little change of pace.

Because I was feeling like killing 20 minutes by writing something creative with some pop culture references thrown in.

Because my 1st amendment rights allow me to!

(Hey, if you don't like it, just hit "page down" and move on buddy.)

(P.S. Lighten up.)
 
JJTiger1 said:
I liked it. Maybe he did publish his work previously, maybe he didn't. I didn't catch the original. It's summertime. Everything is in "repeats".

... at least he didn't whine about G5 laptops.
=-=
1000 points for entertainment value. 😎
=-=
JJ

Thanks JJ. Yes, I was thinking that maybe some folks didn't see the previous post because it was buried on page 10+ of the previous news/forum thread. And I think the site could use a bit more levity.

Now here's what I'd really like to hear some rumors about: How will Apple intro the new iPods??? Ideas on new commercials?

Here's an idea:
It's November...day after the elections. I'm picturing a wide angle shot of Air Force One with a voiceover of "please make sure your seatbacks...". Then cut to Kerry and Edwards in the cockpit re-enacting the "Bohemian Rhapsody" scene (in the car) from "Wayne's World" with the plane pitching and diving to the music. The new Pres and Veep look left and catch site of Austin Powers' psychedelic 747 at 9 o'clock. Zoom in on a window portal w/ Austin looking out, with his own set of buds on listening to classical music, saying "Yeah, baby."

Cut to black screen and text.
"The new iPod. Presidential or Psychedelic. It's your choice."

Let's hear your ideas...

-mac2^7
 
DGFan said:
For a class full of students I think the iMacs are a waste of money. Schools around me are shedding teachers because they have no budget yet your school is prepared to overspend on computers. What gives?

Maybe it's a private school that isn't as strapped for cash as the public school system? There are all sorts of reasons why a single school could have the money to spend on this. Hell, this does not sound like a high school course (if it is, well, good on the person for finding a school that offers courses like that), so your comment probably doesn't even apply.

~J
 
mac128k said:
Thanks JJ. Yes, I was thinking that maybe some folks didn't see the previous post because it was buried on page 10+ of the previous news/forum thread. And I think the site could use a bit more levity.

Now here's what I'd really like to hear some rumors about: How will Apple intro the new iPods??? Ideas on new commercials?

Here's an idea:
It's November...day after the elections. I'm picturing a wide angle shot of Air Force One with a voiceover of "please make sure your seatbacks...". Then cut to Kerry and Edwards in the cockpit re-enacting the "Bohemian Rhapsody" scene (in the car) from "Wayne's World" with the plane pitching and diving to the music. The new Pres and Veep look left and catch site of Austin Powers' psychedelic 747 at 9 o'clock. Zoom in on a window portal w/ Austin looking out, with his own set of buds on listening to classical music, saying "Yeah, baby."

Cut to black screen and text.
"The new iPod. Presidential or Psychedelic. It's your choice."

Let's hear your ideas...

-mac2^7

Mac128k - two for two! I enjoy these interludes from you. Very creative - are you in advertising? Keep it up.
thanks
 
I hope the new iMac isn't too conservative in it's design. I know it will look good no matter what they do, but i hope it's eye-catching.

No one ever noticed or commented on our PC in the corner.

My PowerBook, my wife's iBook clamshell, and the kid's ruby iMac are all eye-catching and have received many positive comments.

This is a good thing for Apple. When people come into my home, they want to talk about computers, they want to ask "what is it?", "why did you get an Apple?". I don't have to start the Mac conversations and sound like some sort of Mac maniac.

I reckon if I had've had an iMac LCD.... I reckon they'd be swooning when they came into my home. 😀

Apple design is free non-aggressive advertising. It's worth heaps to Apple.

So, I sure hope the new iMac lives up to - and even exceeds - what's gone before it.
 
Trekkie said:
I discovered this today.

Any specifications provided by that site are pure speculation and have no weight behind them, and I'd discount them more than a little by the sheer idiocy of supporting the Alex Salkever article. Every "point" in that little screed is either so self-evident that Apple would have done it by now if it made any sense, or so ignorant of market conditions that it obviously was intended to rabble-rouse rather than express anything meaningful.

  • Single G5 Processor 1.6GHz, 1.8GHz, 2.0GHz
  • 256MB RAM (minimum)
  • 32MB VRAM (minimum)
  • 60GB HDD (minimum)
  • SuperDrive standard on the top two models, optional on base model
  • One open PCI slot
  • One FireWire 800 port, two FireWire 400 ports (one on front); three USB 2.0 ports (one on front)
  • Optical digital audio input, optical digital audio output, analog audio input, analog audio output, front headphone minijack and speaker
  • Optional AirPort Extreme, optional internal Bluetooth.

This I could actually believe, though I still think that it's a crappy way to do what Apple really ought to do with the single G5 in the consumer space. The iMac should be kept as an all-in-one solution with as small a footprint as possible, while a new line of consumer towers is debuted with matching basic specifications - processor clock, RAM, disk size, graphics options - to the pro machines. Make the consumer machines single processor, and there's your headless G5 for people who are too cheap for a dualie pro tower.

However the specs are interesting (except wondering on the vid card with 32MB min? That sounds way wrong to support this next statement:

On the top of the case is a strip of aluminum (identical to the case) from the back to a centered Apple logo in a contrasting material. Removing them reveals a mounting point for an articulating display arm and a cable management groove. The accessory arm is VESA compliant and will work with any other VESA compliant third party monitor, but of course will look best with Apple’s own monitors.

Actually, all that you need for standard UI and 2D rendering is enough memory to hold the textures in the frame buffer. I forget who did the calculation, but a Macrumors reader has previously figured out that OS X - as of Panther - on a 20" screen takes up some 16MB worth of video card space. That doesn't leave a whole lot of room for flashy effects, and it's also a far cry below the general level of the market at the moment, where 64 and 128MB comes in any machine that isn't using onboard Intel Extreme, SiS, or other built-in chipsets.

However, this next point is something I intend to destroy yet again:

“A highly sought after accessory will be a touch screen tablet that can ‘dock’ with the accessory arm. Call it iPad. Detached, it is powered by an on-board battery and allows remote control of iTunes or iTV and access to your AV media files while within range. It will function as a thin client and will link through AirPort Extreme. One iMac can support multiple iPads allowing simultaneous access, but only one iPad can access each account at a time. The iPad need not dock with the iMac to recharge. A companion charging stand will support the iPad like an easel and will allow Bluetooth connection to a mouse and keyboard. Alternatively, iPad will (finally) make use of Apple’s Inkwell handwriting recognition.

Assume that Apple made a display no larger than 15" inches for this - as that's the current market limit, where you pay $800-1000 for a screen that doesn't display video while mobile - and take their quoted resolution for the iMac. Working from a basis of 1024 by 768 pixels, with 24 bits per pixel (RGB color is 8 bits per color), you get a rate of 18,874,368 bits per frame, 60 frames per second, which means a data rate of 135MB/s for merely displaying the screen at standard refresh rates. Halve that to something that would be almost intolerable on an LCD and more prone to network chop and you come up with 67.5MB/ss, or 540.5Mbit/s. Compare that to the speed of Airport Extreme - 54Mbit/s - and you have a need of dectupling the bandwidth just to draw the screen without any network traffic at all. Even if H.264 could be applied to the stream, that would only quarter the demand to a svelte and unreachable 135.125Mbit/s. In addition, as anyone who has encoded a DVD or burnt a CD can tell you, the process of pushing media into a codec format is CPU intensive and would be constantly draining your machine as it crunched the necessary numbers. Last I heard, video encoding wasn't instant.

Before anyone pipes up with cries of 'Wireless FireWire," I'll cut that train off at the pass and remind everyone that 802.15.3, which the FireWire protocols are being built on, is a mere 55Mbit/s and not even released yet.

Good god that would rock. iMac not only a TiVo unit, home theater option, but something you can SHARE among family members in the house. Get two of these iPad devices and run two seperate accounts on one machine.

That would rock, would it not?

Actually, no, it wouldn't. You'd get an iMac that costs a ridiculous amount of money and which wouldn't be any more functional than the current crop, aside from the improved processor. Oh, and some minor possible benefit from mounting options. Hooray.
 
jouster said:
Wow....some of y'all have way too much time on your hands...

Secret hints in developer conference keynotes? Half hidden allusions in geograpical terms?

C'mon....really.

This is a ten billion dollar company, not a secret society for geeks.

It can't be both?
It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping!
 
Roller said:
Unfortunately, I think they've already missed this one, at least insofar as potential switchers goes. I doubt if the average back-to-school buyer who never used a Mac before will put off their purchase into mid-September. And institutional school purchases will have been complete well before then.

The best thing Apple could do this time around would be to come up with a cheap (well under $1,000 - not $999) rugged iMac that doesn't have a built-in monitor.

I really need to find a "beating a dead horse" smiley. Ok we get it, some people think there needs to be a monitor less mid-low end mac. Enough allready.
 
JJTiger1 said:
Try to remember that the traditional entry level iMac's cost less than the entry level desktop unit.

So, if you are expecting serious new features in an iMac that are optional to the entry level desktop, you should expect to pay serious more money than a traditional entry level desktop unit.

Wishing for BlueTooth this and BlueTooth that ... in an iMac ... better wish for an extra pile of money beyond the cost of an entry level desktop unit.

Today's entry level desktop unit is a G5-1.8 ghz duallie, at $1999 USD.
=-=
Maybe the new iMac will be ... 😱
=-=
JJ

Remember USB? It was released in the iMac before it was released in anything else, so there is precedent.
 
thatwendigo said:
the speed of Airport Extreme - 54Mbit/s

Just a point, higher bandwith is available in wireless routers now @ 108Mbps, Apple may make a new Airport system (leaving many people angry - more $$$)

But as you said, you still couldn't use it for the wireless monitor thingy...

thatwendigo said:
you come up with 67.5MB/ss, or 540.5Mbit/s

...but it could be used for other wireless applications that could benefit from 108Mbps.

Just a thought 😀
 
Bluetooth

Krizoitz said:
Remember USB? It was released in the iMac before it was released in anything else, so there is precedent.

I just checked the current prices for Bluetooth components and accessories ... 😱

They are as cheap as USB !!!

Okay. So let's see if the new iMac has BlueTooth built-in as well as an iPod docking station, and a pci slot, and front mounted USB and FireWire ports.

That's not asking too much.

Imagine Apple's iPod sitting in an Apple iMac's built-in Apple iPod docking station.
=-=
That iCoffeeMaker 🙄 will have to be ported from windoze ...

http://www.edge-inc.net/humor/index.cfm/page/one/id/832/t/Image.htm
=-=
JJ
 
Trekkie said:
I discovered this today.

To summarize their 'info' on the new iMac:

Some new iMac specs:



That would rock, would it not?


Interesting, although as you point out soem of the specs seem way off par...

As for the remote gadget, way cool as long as it works with any Mac. Sure Apple need something like this because it could be used for some many different purposes - control music, control DVD, control powerpoint/keynote, check email, etc
So I am thinking this could be true. A small device with WiFi (and PDAs have WiFi now so size aint too much of an issue) that acts as a universal remote, fully programmable for users with their own keys, menus and features.
It would rock.
But how much? $300 USD? $400 USD? If they could put it out for $150-$200 USD I think it would sell but anymore and its only for those who want the luxury of such a thing...
 
USB was standard on Intel PCs long before the iMac

Krizoitz said:
Remember USB? It was released in the iMac before it was released in anything else, so there is precedent.

This is completely false in regards to the hardware.

USB ports were standard on major label PCs from mid-1996 and later - the Intel 430/440 chipsets used with DRAM (not SDRAM) and the Pentium Pro, Pentium II and original Pentium processors had embedded USB controllers. Mid-range and higher PCs brought the ports out to the motherboard connectors. I had a dual Pentium Pro PC in early 1996 that had USB connectors.

Windows 95 did not support USB natively, and few USB devices existed, so most of these ports were unused. It was well known, however, that Windows 98 was on its way with full O/S support for USB - so manufacturers were building "Windows 98 Ready" PCs.

What was significant with the bondi iMac wasn't the introduction of USB - but the elimination of other ports, which forced USB peripherals. This gave the fledgling USB peripheral industry a small but dedicated market for devices - therefore a number of products already in development for Intel PCs were released to coincide with the iMac introduction (and recased in translucent plastic).

Do you really think that the design for all the USB devices for the iMac were started after the iMac was announced? No, most the parts were already available, in preparation for the Windows 98 USB support.

USB support was like a parade coming down the street, with "Windows 98" on the lead banner. Apple jumped in front of the parade with the "iMac" banner, and to most people it seemed like Apple was the innovator.

The iMac did "jump start" the USB industry, but the only "first" was the elimination of other legacy ports, not the introduction of USB ports.

Sorry though, you need to find a different precedent than USB.
 
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