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iMac or PC

There's tons of FUD in this already.

It boils down to what you need.

If you need a PC? Buy a PC.

If you need a Mac. Buy a Mac. Choose the tool that works best for you.

For Work/Gaming/Intensive applications. The macs don't have the power I need, or the versitilty. My Windows/Nix machines do. So I use them for gaming and work.

For my daily driver computer? I use my 2011 iMac.

Always pick the best tool for the job.
 
turtlez said:
people don't take into account the cost of the aluminium, glass, (1 year of designing the computer to be beautiful and work vs 1 week for a pc counterpart), comes with os x vs windows you have to buy for a few hundred, comes with aluminium keyboard vs one that you have to buy and is plastic, comes with premium mouse vs buying one for $100, also a lot of people compare the size of the display to a lower resolution display at the same size. Then there is the resale value. PC you just throw out, mac you sell for half price. Basically the Mac is cheaper if you wanted your PC to look beautiful and didn't pirate windows.
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...great list...you forgot the commercials of apple which have to be financed, probably more than development
 
G51989 said:
Or simple, a basic budget box doesn't really have that much to it. Motherboard, power supply, hard drive and optical drive, and ummmm....
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a cpu, fan, case and an OS installed plus motherboard drivers etc.

Much longer than 30 minutes, and hardly comparable to an iMac in any case. Not even comparable to a Mac Mini.
 
classixuk said:
a cpu, fan, case and an OS installed plus motherboard drivers etc.

Much longer than 30 minutes, and hardly comparable to an iMac in any case. Not even comparable to a Mac Mini.
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Could I have the hardware together? You bet I could in 30 minutes. Booted up with the windows install screen already up? yep

Have Windows installed shortly after? You bet I could.

Drivers? Something that windows normally already has, yes there are cases where you gotta install motherboard drivers and the like. But on sub 500 dollar machines, I've never had that to be an issue, Graphics drivers, audio drivers, and stuff like that sure, how long does that take? Couple of minutes? Tops?

So, in about 1 and a half hours, I could have a basic PC tower up and running and ready to use. Maybe 2 hours if windows takes forever to install ( Depends on the machine its being installed on. I installed XP Pro on a REALLY high end machine with an SSD a few weeks ago, think it took....under 5 minutes? My first XP machine took a solid 45 mins to install XP lol )

And no its not as good as an iMac ( well that depends what your using it for ), and sure its not as small as a Mac Mini, but I'd take a mid range budget PC tower, assuming it was ATX form factor, and had a PCIE16X slot ( which it would ), over a Mac Mini anyday.
 
Just go and Buy a PC, if you have no idea if you want an iMac or PC, I would just go with a PC.
 
G51989 said:
Could I have the hardware together? You bet I could in 30 minutes. Booted up with the windows install screen already up? yep

Have Windows installed shortly after? You bet I could.

Drivers? Something that windows normally already has, yes there are cases where you gotta install motherboard drivers and the like. But on sub 500 dollar machines, I've never had that to be an issue, Graphics drivers, audio drivers, and stuff like that sure, how long does that take? Couple of minutes? Tops?

So, in about 1 and a half hours, I could have a basic PC tower up and running and ready to use. Maybe 2 hours if windows takes forever to install ( Depends on the machine its being installed on. I installed XP Pro on a REALLY high end machine with an SSD a few weeks ago, think it took....under 5 minutes? My first XP machine took a solid 45 mins to install XP lol )

And no its not as good as an iMac ( well that depends what your using it for ), and sure its not as small as a Mac Mini, but I'd take a mid range budget PC tower, assuming it was ATX form factor, and had a PCIE16X slot ( which it would ), over a Mac Mini anyday.
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So you'd take an ATX tower with a Celeron chip, onboard graphics and sound, loaded with XP over a Mac Mini? (I'm saying this because you stated sub 500)? Crazy.

Now, if you had suggested mATX (let's at least try and get the size down), decent CPU, use the PCIE16X speed to host a decent graphics card and invested in a decent mobo (most cheap ones don't even have wireless built in) then I might agree ... but then you'd be way over the Mac Mini budget too ;)
 
classixuk said:
So you'd take an ATX tower with a Celeron chip, onboard graphics and sound, loaded with XP over a Mac Mini? (I'm saying this because you stated sub 500)? Crazy.

Now, if you had suggested mATX (let's at least try and get the size down), decent CPU, use the PCIE16X speed to host a decent graphics card and invested in a decent mobo (most cheap ones don't even have wireless built in) then I might agree ... but then you'd be way over the Mac Mini budget too ;)
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Or this.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1553701&CatId=2627

Would I take that over a Base Line 500 dollar mini? You bet your ass I would.

For another 100 bucks I can jam a decent video card in there to. And, it will be supported much longer than the mini.
 
classixuk said:
Interesting.

No bluetooth, no wireless lan, no HDMI and a cut down version of Windows 7 (why no ultimate) that won't fit under the TV.

Great choice!

:p
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Its a desktop, it doesn't need blue tooth. And most monitors are DVI, so your good there, tho the 100 dollar video card I would add to it would fix the HDMI issue. Oh yeah, the Mac Mini lacks an optical drive, and the room to upgrade...anything. I can easily upgrade the HDDs, video card, processor, optical drive and everything. Not in a mini.

The vast majority of users don't NEED ultimate. Pro does it just fine for them. Do you really need a ****ing network tray in your launch bar?

And no wireless lan? a 15 dollar WLAN card can fix that. I dont think 15 dollars buys ANYTHING at the apple store ;)

And it doesn't fit under the TV? Well, its a DESKTOP. Therefore, it goes on a DESK.

If I want to use it to power my TV, then thats nothing a 10 dollar cable cant fix.
 
G51989 said:
Its a desktop, it doesn't need blue tooth. And most monitors are DVI, so your good there, tho the 100 dollar video card I would add to it would fix the HDMI issue. Oh yeah, the Mac Mini lacks an optical drive, and the room to upgrade...anything. I can easily upgrade the HDDs, video card, processor, optical drive and everything. Not in a mini.

The vast majority of users don't NEED ultimate. Pro does it just fine for them. Do you really need a ****ing network tray in your launch bar?

And no wireless lan? a 15 dollar WLAN card can fix that. I dont think 15 dollars buys ANYTHING at the apple store ;)

And it doesn't fit under the TV? Well, its a DESKTOP. Therefore, it goes on a DESK.

If I want to use it to power my TV, then thats nothing a 10 dollar cable cant fix.
Click to expand...

And there you go. You see ... the machine you linked to for $499 'looks' as if it should do everything the average householder would need for their computing day to day requirements, but by your very own admission there are lots of updates needed which require more bucks and expertise to fit.

Most PC users these days have a bluetooth enabled phone - I would imagine they would like to be able to use that feature when transferring files or syncing their phones.

They also have wireless internet routers usually provided by their telecoms company or cable company - most would assume you could wirelessly connect a new computer out of the box (it is 2012 after all).

And in a world of Playstations and Xboxes most parents have bought their kids flatscreen TVs for their rooms - what a headache to discover the new computer needs either a special monitor or a special cable/upgrade before you've even had a chance to use it.

Mac Mini does all of this out of the box. It's a revelation! :) LOL
 
classixuk said:
And there you go. You see ... the machine you linked to for $499 'looks' as if it should do everything the average householder would need for their computing day to day requirements, but by your very own admission there are lots of updates needed which require more bucks and expertise to fit.
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No, thats just to make it better than a Mac Mini, you don't NEED a new GPU, I would just personally stuff one in there. And I think most people who would use it heavily would to. Its still cheaper than a Mac mini that you'd want to buy.

Wifi? 10 bucks. Problem solved.

Really want a new video card? Can go as low as 50 bucks, and get a better card than what the Mini offers.

Other than that....? Nope. Its good to go.

So, Wifi card, 50 dolllar GPU if you want to game ( which you can't at all on a mini. ). So, we are looking at still a sub 600 dollar machine.

And I can upgrade everything in that machine, nothing in the mini can be upgraded.

Most PC users these days have a bluetooth enabled phone - I would imagine they would like to be able to use that feature when transferring files or syncing their phones.
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I could be wrong, but I've never seen anyone use blue tooth as well, anything else headsets. Most people just plug their phones in.

They also have wireless internet routers usually provided by their telecoms company or cable company - most would assume you could wirelessly connect a new computer out of the box (it is 2012 after all).
Click to expand...

Those tend to cost lots of money from the cable company, every ISP i've had come do an install ( and I've moved ALOT in the past 5 years, its ****ing annoying ), give you a modem, and an ethernet cable.

I was once qouted over 150 dollars to " install " a router. And then pay 20 bucks a month to use it. I just bought a ****** linksys router for 50 bucks ;)

And in a world of Playstations and Xboxes most parents have bought their kids flatscreen TVs for their rooms - what a headache to discover the new computer needs either a special monitor or a special cable/upgrade before you've even had a chance to use it.
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You mean an HDMI cable? That can be found...anywhere? Installing a Wifi card isn't hard, hell. You can do it vis USB as well.

Mac Mini does all of this out of the box. It's a revelation! LOL
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Yes it does, but it doesn't have a good GPU, it can't be easily upgraded. It gets bricked by Apple after 4-5 years ( No security updates = bricked if you want to actually use your machine ), and its performance is ugh.

No Optical drive, really?

Sometimes people see my 2011 iMac in my living room, then ask me what kind of mac they should get, I always say iMac. Its the best Apple desktop right now.

No offense to your purchasing decision, but I couldn't deal with a mini.
 
G51989 said:
No, thats just to make it better than a Mac Mini, you don't NEED a new GPU, I would just personally stuff one in there. And I think most people who would use it heavily would to. Its still cheaper than a Mac mini that you'd want to buy.

Wifi? 10 bucks. Problem solved.

Really want a new video card? Can go as low as 50 bucks, and get a better card than what the Mini offers.

Other than that....? Nope. Its good to go.

So, Wifi card, 50 dolllar GPU if you want to game ( which you can't at all on a mini. ). So, we are looking at still a sub 600 dollar machine.

And I can upgrade everything in that machine, nothing in the mini can be upgraded.


I could be wrong, but I've never seen anyone use blue tooth as well, anything else headsets. Most people just plug their phones in.



Those tend to cost lots of money from the cable company, every ISP i've had come do an install ( and I've moved ALOT in the past 5 years, its ****ing annoying ), give you a modem, and an ethernet cable.

I was once qouted over 150 dollars to " install " a router. And then pay 20 bucks a month to use it. I just bought a ****** linksys router for 50 bucks ;)



You mean an HDMI cable? That can be found...anywhere? Installing a Wifi card isn't hard, hell. You can do it vis USB as well.



Yes it does, but it doesn't have a good GPU, it can't be easily upgraded. It gets bricked by Apple after 4-5 years ( No security updates = bricked if you want to actually use your machine ), and its performance is ugh.

No Optical drive, really?

Sometimes people see my 2011 iMac in my living room, then ask me what kind of mac they should get, I always say iMac. Its the best Apple desktop right now.

No offense to your purchasing decision, but I couldn't deal with a mini.
Click to expand...

I am speaking your language, honestly. I've built (and used) more PCs than I care to remember and I like them. But then again, like yourself, I enjoy putting things together and having the satisfaction of knowing I can upgrade my machine at any point in the future (assuming they don't change ports like when they did AGP to PCIEX which leaves you buggered).

But most shoppers don't want that. They barely know how to switch a computer on. They want something that works out of the box without much thinking involved (in my experience anyway).

Who cares about graphics cards when their kids already have a wii, playstation, xbox and portable devices? Who cares about SSD when the keyboard is soooo pretty?

When I build for myself I spend most on the GPU, CPU and Mobo.

When I build for others I do what Apple do and look for the prettiest form factor and work backwards from there - hence my point - when I do that I cannot beat the Mac Mini in 'bang for buck'. Seriously - go ahead and try it including all of the features of the Mac Mini (plus optical drive to load the OS).

It's impossible!

iMac is amazing, but Mac Mini competes really well with the cheap-mid range tower market. There's no denying that.

:)
 
classixuk said:
I am speaking your language, honestly. I've built (and used) more PCs than I care to remember and I like them. But then again, like yourself, I enjoy putting things together and having the satisfaction of knowing I can upgrade my machine at any point in the future (assuming they don't change ports like when they did AGP to PCIEX which leaves you buggered).
)
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I wasn't buggered with the AGP to PCEI switch lol, I kept my AGP based system till I couldn't max games out at 60FPS anymore, then went to PCIE :D

I like being able to keep my hardware for a long time.

What do I do with old hardware? put it in the basement and add it to my network ( currently at 19TBs of storage )

But most shoppers don't want that. They barely know how to switch a computer on. They want something that works out of the box without much thinking involved (in my experience anyway).
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Yeah, to a point. And there are lots of people out there like that, but I think there are also lots of people who would never have opened up their machines, out of fear, 5 years ago. I think lots of those people wouldn't be to scared to pop off the side panel and shove a PCI card in lol.

Who cares about graphics cards when their kids already have a wii, playstation, xbox and portable devices? Who cares about SSD when the keyboard is soooo pretty?
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Oh I do, and I know lots of people who still love PC games, Unless I knew the person buying the machine would ONLY do basic stuff like FB and Amazon and email, I would say spend the 50 bucks on the graphics card.

My keyboard is made by Rain PC, and its super pretty :)

When I build for myself I spend most on the GPU, CPU and Mobo.
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Yep. I always build myself, except for Apple machines. The only non built by me computer I've owned in about 7 years is this one.

http://www.gamepc.com/shop/systemfamily.asp?family=ds3

I worked on a huge project, didn't get a day off for 81 days, so I bought it as my gift to myself. Frist PC I had in years and years that wasn't in pieces when I bought it, Ironically, I have it hooked up to a 30 inch Apple Cinema display ;)

I had to upgrade to Crossfired 7980s and 96gb of ram of course ;0

When I build for others I do what Apple do and look for the prettiest form factor and work backwards from there - hence my point - when I do that I cannot beat the Mac Mini in 'bang for buck'. Seriously - go ahead and try it including all of the features of the Mac Mini (plus optical drive to load the OS).
Click to expand...

When I build for people I know, not only do I not charge money, but I listen to what they want. If they want cheap cheap cheap, I buy a 50 dollar mobo, 30 dollar case/psu, and equally crappy everything, I've built boxes for people for under 400 dollars ( I have a Windows Volume license...shhhh ), that have been going for almost 10 years ( yep, some of the first ones I built ), still chugging along.

I can deff build, or BUY a PC from an OEM that is better than a Mac Mini. Will it be larger? yes. Much larger, but god damnit I dont put **** under my TV's, besides my Blu Ray Players and 360s ;):cool:

To be honest, I HATE gateway.

The cloest thing you'll get in the PC world.

http://us.gateway.com/gw/en/US/content/sx-series/sx-series

Ive seen these in the wild, awesome little machines The first thing Ive seen from gateway in like....10 years that I'd actually buy.

It's impossible!
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see gateway link :cool:

iMac is amazing, but Mac Mini competes really well with the cheap-mid range tower market. There's no denying that.
Click to expand...

I LOVE my iMac now with 10.8, there is some stuff I hate about 10.8, but meh, I've already disabled most of what I hate. :)

The Mac Mini for me, can't compete with those towers. Because those towers will be viable machines 7-10 years from now, and the Mac Mini won't. Because Apple says so.
 
Add the 1000 dollar 27" Dell monitor that competes with the iMac's screen, then recalculate the price difference ;)
 
For you who want a Mac and powerful machine, I'd say

MBA + ultimate gaming box + 1440@27" or 1600@30" from Dell/HP is best of tech pieces you can get today on reasonable prices.

Now if Dell update their UltraSharp lines with Thunderbolt capabilities, that would be more and more tempting instead of ATD. In term of powahh, a Mac should comes last to mind. Any geeks should know that.

:apple: is just freckin awesome at making disposable computers and devices, and .. well, that's about it. No need to be ashamed and deny it.
Unless they do something about the MacPro, which I doubt.
 
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