iMac Pro Described as Blazingly Fast, Quiet, and Fairly Priced, But Lacks Upgradeability

[nofear1az]

"...one of the major downsides to the new machine, with no way to swap out the RAM, processor, or hard drive."

So essentially it's a throw-away after it's spent life. Maybe this is to just benefit Apple so they don't have a repeat of the Mac Pro saga.

Eventually Apple might have to introduce a subscription price model for their Mac hardware and you get to upgrade every 5th year. Now that's a thought.

 

[BWhaler]

Anyone know why the Macrumors Buyers Guide has it as a “Caution” it hasn’t even been released yet.

 

[dannys1]

Sometimes (or maybe I should say most times) professional also work on a budget.

Also, what happens when the SSD fails in this iMac Pro? Instead of changing it for a new one in half a day on your office, you must send it to Apple for a week.

What happens if, what happens if. Most graphics, image, music, video professionals wouldn't know how to fix an SSD and restore their system anyway, or want to. Also why would they have a spare one laying around, you're not likely to have a £1800 PCI-E SSD laying around as backup and you won't be getting one of them next day from Amazon. If you're really switched on to disaster proofing you'd have an external SSD you can boot from - anything could go wrong with any computer thats part of life and you'll get it fixed by Apple a lot quicker than other brands (and if you've built it yourself you'll have to fix it yourself)

I don't know why people feel entitled that a computer should be upgradeable. Audio professionals buy 2 channel sound cards that cost £3500, they literally do one thing, give you stereo audio output. Guess what, you can't upgrade them.

I just bought a £75k car, guess what, it's not upgradable.
I bought a £4500 65" OLED TV, guess what, it's not upgradable.

 

[nofear1az]

Exactly. And I just thought of something else along those lines.

Wanna know what companies spend the most on? Talent.

Let's say the company drops a $5,000 iMac Pro on Jim's desk. And he's to use it for the next three years... which would work out to $1,667 per year.

But Jim's salary is $50,000 a year... which would be $150,000 for those three years.

So the company is paying A LOT more for Jim himself rather than the computer he's using.

Suddenly... equipment cost doesn't sound so bad!

Please tell that to my company then, my whole building here is still struggling with nearly 9 year old computers (Core 2 Duos) that run so slow with a WAN setup at the speed of token ring. They even re-purpose old PS2 keyboards with PS2 - USB dongles to use with newer tech. Can you imagine the nasty grime on those old keyboards with the turnover rate during 9yrs long. If only our business could see it like you do.

 

[BrooksA]

Would it be wrong to get one to play World of Warcraft?

 

[Martyimac]

I just bought a £75k car, guess what, it's not upgradable.

In all my decades of buying and driving cars, I have yet to find one that is not upgradable. What in the heck did you buy?

 

[melendezest]

What happens if, what happens if. Most graphics, image, music, video professionals wouldn't know how to fix an SSD and restore their system anyway, or want to. Also why would they have a spare one laying around, you're not likely to have a £1800 PCI-E SSD laying around as backup and you won't be getting one of them next day from Amazon. If you're really switched on to disaster proofing you'd have an external SSD you can boot from - anything could go wrong with any computer thats part of life and you'll get it fixed by Apple a lot quicker than other brands (and if you've built it yourself you'll have to fix it yourself)

I don't know why people feel entitled that a computer should be upgradeable. Audio professionals buy 2 channel sound cards that cost £3500, they literally do one thing, give you stereo audio output. Guess what, you can't upgrade them.

I just bought a £75k car, guess what, it's not upgradable.
I bought a £4500 65" OLED TV, guess what, it's not upgradable.

Audio professionals also buy chassis that they can swap said cards if they don't work out or something else goes wrong.

Sorry but Pros using computers know what they are doing, or they have an IT department that knows what they are doing.

No pro automotive shop would ever buy vehicles for their fleet with a sealed hood.

In the same sense, computer tech has not changed that much in the pro sector. In the consumer and prosumer world? Sure, maybe.

Most of the world uses PCs, and most of those PCs are user upgradeable in some way, unless the enterprise contract has an AMAZING device swap clause in it.

Non-field repairability for high failure items (like drives, RAM, or Graphics cards) are a non-starter for many enterprises, and for pretty much EVERY Pro Audio/video situation in the field.

The truth is that this iMac is a "Pro" device in the loosest sense of the word. Just like every other current Apple "Pro" device.

Non-repairability of Apple products has nothing to do with whether it is actually professional grade, it's all about how much Apple can charge for it and market it as such while keeping the build costs down.

 

[dannys1]

The truth is that this iMac is a "Pro" device in the loosest sense of the word. Just like every other current Apple "Pro" device.

Non-repairability of Apple products has nothing to do with whether it is actually professional grade, it's all about how much Apple can charge for it and market it as such while keeping the build costs down.

1. No it isn't
2. Correct.

Steve Jobs also hated upgradeability from day one and wanted to build a box that "as is"

I don't own anything else that can be "upgraded" either.
My phone can't be
My iPad can't be
My TV can't be
My car can't be
My synthesisers can't be
My amps can't be
My speakers can't be
My TV box can't be
My surround sound amp can't be
My central heating can't be
My sofa can't be

I could go on, you get the point. If you want to mess around with specs years after you've bought something buy a PC - even when I used a PC I never bothered upgrading - there's stuff every year that comes out spec wise that I want, that would require an entire new logic/mother board. If people can't afford the spec they want from day one, then either don't buy it or buy a PC and upgrade later when you can afford it, it's not the way i've ever done it though.

 

[TheHateMachine]

nMP 2 - Revenge of the Trashcan!

 

[Plutonius]

It's still an iMacs so of course it has a lack of upgradeability.

 

[VRing]

He said the iMac Pro's biggest weakness is its lack of upgradeability, but he said its expensive $4,999 starting price is actually fair for the hardware included, and he priced out a PC with mostly equivalent tech specs at $5,100.

put together a similar speced computer with components and let us know what it comes out too.

Here's a build that offers considerably higher performance than the entry iMac Pro.

• AMD Threadripper 1950X (16 cores / 32 threads) + ASRock X399 Taichi [$970]
• Corsair H80i [$80]
• 32 GB Samsung DDR4 ECC [$400]
• 1 TB Samsung 960 EVO [$450]
• AMD Radeon Pro Vega Frontier Edition 16 GB HBM2 (Vega 64) [$790]
• Corsair RM850x [$110]
• ASUS XG-C100C 10 Gbps [$100]
• Phanteks Enthoo Pro [$100]

Total for hardware: $3000

That leaves $2000 to budget on a display, OS, keyboard and mouse. The display preference will vary depending on the industry and use case for this machine. You might need a display with high color accuracy/reproduction or you might need multiple displays, etc.

 

[melendezest]

1. No it isn't
2. Correct.

Steve Jobs also hated upgradeability from day one and wanted to build a box that "as is"

I don't own anything else that can be "upgraded" either.
My phone can't be
My iPad can't be
My TV can't be
My car can't be
My synthesisers can't be
My amps can't be
My speakers can't be
My TV box can't be
My surround sound amp can't be
My central heating can't be
My sofa can't be

I could go on, you get the point. If you want to mess around with specs years after you've bought something buy a PC - even when I used a PC I never bothered upgrading - there's stuff every year that comes out spec wise that I want, that would require an entire new logic/mother board. If people can't afford the spec they want from day one, then either don't buy it or buy a PC and upgrade later when you can afford it, it's not the way i've ever done it though.

We can play the semantics game all day.

Most of your examples are made of straw. But I'll bite for a few non-ridiculous ones:

My phone can be upgraded: SD card slot, OS customization level qualifies as an upgrade in my opinion as well
My tablet can be upgraded: Same as above (non iOS)
My tv can't be: Not a computer, anlthough I have replace components in a flat tv before (sound board, IO board)
Pretty sure your car can be upgraded with all manner of after market parts to improve performance, handling, etc, unless it's a Prius or something like that (I don't know anything about hybrids)
My surround amp can be upraded: I can choose the tubes in it and put better quality ones if they fail

As far as Steve Jobs hating upgradeability, see the G4 Cube, the tabletop iMac, the first "iPod" iMac G5, every subsequent iMac until his death, EVERY PowerMac, every MacPro before the trashcan, every MacBook until his death.

In other words, every real computer Apple made was upgradeable, until he died.

iOS devices have always been un-upgradeable however, which is their biggest flaw and why I choose to NOT use them.

 

[anticipate]

Awaiting tests on peak load throttling. The Vega Pro 64 in there runs at 83% of a desktop ones Gflops (and working backwards from that – clock speed) and 83% of the memory bandwidth, so it should be tamped down enough to not be a heat monster with the iMac Pros 500 watts of cooling dissipation. Wondering if it hits those much tamped down speeds at least 100% consistantly.

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2871/radeon-rx-vega-64

https://www.apple.com/ca/imac-pro/

Here's the most detailed tests I've seen, numbers of course look good

http://hrtapps.com/blogs/20171212/

They are quoting the 56 number on the apple website, which lines up perfectly with the retail card. I don't think it's downclocked much if at all?

 

[Crzyrio]

Yes but in doing so you now have a modular system, which when one component fails or needs to be upgraded you may do so and still have a viable machine or in fact a better one. Compare Apples to...well Apples!!!!

But you also have module system, where there is no single channel of contact.

1 component gives you trouble

Here's a build that offers considerably higher performance that the entry iMac Pro.

• AMD Threadripper 1950X (16 cores / 32 threads) + ASRock X399 Taichi [$970]
• Corsair H80i [$80]
• 32 GB Samsung DDR4 ECC [$400]
• 1 TB Samsung 960 EVO [$450]
• AMD Radeon Pro Vega Frontier Edition 16 GB HBM2 (Vega 64) [$790]
• Corsair RM850x [$110]
• ASUS XG-C100C 10 Gbps [$100]
• Phanteks Enthoo Pro [$100]

Total for hardware: $3000

That leaves $2000 to budget on a display, OS, keyboard and mouse. The display preference will vary depending on the industry and use case for this machine. You might need a display with high color accuracy/reproduction or you might need multiple displays, etc.

The Display it self is easily worth any way from $1000 - $1800.
The iMac also consist of HD Camera, Thunderbolt, Multiple Microphones, Speakers.

So at the end of the day, price/power they are pretty much on par and it comes down to what your personal preference is to customization vs reliability vs support, modularity etc etc.

 

[VRing]

The Display it self is easily worth any way from $1000 - $1800.
The iMac also consist of HD Camera, Thunderbolt, Multiple Microphones, Speakers.

So at the end of the day, price/power they are pretty much on par and it comes down to what your personal preference is to customization vs reliability vs support, modularity etc etc.

The display is likely the LG UltraFine 5k, which goes for ~$1300, although it depends on the users use case. You might not need that type of display, you might need multiple displays, or you might need something a lot better.

Thunderbolt has little to no use on the PC above. It has 64 PCIe lanes, 4x PCIe 3.0 x16 ports, 3x Ultra M.2, 1x U.2, 8x SATA3, 1x USB-A 3.1 gen2, 1x USB-C 3.1 gen2.

They're not on par. For starters, that PC uses the same GPU as the top tier iMac Pro. The 1950X CPU is also going to outperform the W-2145 by a fair margin.

Personal preference is obviously the decision maker here, however for a workstation the iMac Pro is extremely niche. It seems to only be a consideration if your work is exclusive to MacOS/Final Cut. Not because it's the best option, but it's essentially the only option.

 

[Abazigal]

Personal preference is obviously the decision maker here, however for a workstation the iMac Pro is extremely niche. It seems to only be a consideration if your work is exclusive to MacOS/Final Cut. Not because it's the best option, but it's essentially the only option.

It seems to me that the only real reason for getting a Mac is final cut pro.

If you are going to use adobe premiere to edit your video, then may as well get a windows workstation. At least, that's the messaging I am getting from tech youtubers online.

 

[Chopper9]

I cannot believe I waited all year for this thing and only NOW they announce (well, Apple didn't announce anything, the reviewers did) that it's not upgradable. Not even the RAM.

Golf clap for another pathetic move, Tim.

 

[jwpoof]

Why? What about "Pro" means 'user upgradeable'? That sounds more like 'enthusiast' than pro to me. A professional buys the specs they need from day one and gets working straight away because their hourly rate is high. They don't waste time tinkering around or trying to save a couple of hundred quid (dollars) getting parts a bit cheaper, the time they've done that they could have worked an hour that earns more than the savings they've made.

An enthusiast wants to tinker and wants to save money, or build the best spec for the least price - what you want is an iMac Enthusiast machine. Although probably not an all in one at all.

There's a lot of truth to this. I appreciate computer enthusiasts, and can remember a time when tinkering was worth it from my own perspective. Apple isn't offering tinkerers much to play with anymore. So it goes...

I would rather buy a brand-new, updated pre-2013 Mac Pro tower with 2018 guts and an upgrade path, but the inconvenience of this machine's lack of upgradeability is minor in the grand scheme of things. I'm just happy to see Apple release a powerful professional grade Mac of any kind.

The iMac pro is a no-brainer for somebody like me. If you make your living using Macs, then overpaying for RAM is the least of one's worries. I've never in my life looked back at my computer purchases and lamented the money spent. They're just tools to get jobs done and they pay for themselves in short order.

I'd overpay for RAM and a complete lack of upgradeability in exchange for not having to interrupt my well-worn workflow by switching to PC. Convenience has its place.

 

[HarryPot]

What happens if, what happens if. Most graphics, image, music, video professionals wouldn't know how to fix an SSD and restore their system anyway, or want to. Also why would they have a spare one laying around, you're not likely to have a £1800 PCI-E SSD laying around as backup and you won't be getting one of them next day from Amazon. If you're really switched on to disaster proofing you'd have an external SSD you can boot from - anything could go wrong with any computer thats part of life and you'll get it fixed by Apple a lot quicker than other brands (and if you've built it yourself you'll have to fix it yourself)

I don't know why people feel entitled that a computer should be upgradeable. Audio professionals buy 2 channel sound cards that cost £3500, they literally do one thing, give you stereo audio output. Guess what, you can't upgrade them.

I just bought a £75k car, guess what, it's not upgradable.
I bought a £4500 65" OLED TV, guess what, it's not upgradable.

I never said anything about feeling entitled. I'm just stating my opinion and what I would like Apple to do.

As for not having a PCI-E-SSD at hand.... this is part of the problem. Just use normal drives that are much more affordable and as fast as most people need.

Again, this is my opinion. Not me feeling entitled.

As for your analogies, please pardon me, but cars are very much upgradable. Imagine if you bought a car which you couldn't replace its tires anywhere but in the dealership. And that it took weeks to replace...

 

[apolloa]

Oh dear, Brownlee the guy who buys the latest RED super multi thousand dollar camera to make his You Tube videos says the iMac Pro isn’t expensive.. and then he runs geekbench?? A useless synthetic benchmark? I hope he actually does some real world tests like video rendering to show its performance capabilities.

 

[DesterWallaboo]

When you cannot load Mac native apps... then it's not a replacement.

 

[Abazigal]

Here's a build that offers considerably higher performance than the entry iMac Pro.

• AMD Threadripper 1950X (16 cores / 32 threads) + ASRock X399 Taichi [$970]
• Corsair H80i [$80]
• 32 GB Samsung DDR4 ECC [$400]
• 1 TB Samsung 960 EVO [$450]
• AMD Radeon Pro Vega Frontier Edition 16 GB HBM2 (Vega 64) [$790]
• Corsair RM850x [$110]
• ASUS XG-C100C 10 Gbps [$100]
• Phanteks Enthoo Pro [$100]

Total for hardware: $3000

That leaves $2000 to budget on a display, OS, keyboard and mouse. The display preference will vary depending on the industry and use case for this machine. You might need a display with high color accuracy/reproduction or you might need multiple displays, etc.

I am reminded of the video by Jonathan Morrison who showed how his macbook running final cut pro smoked better-specced windows laptops running adobe premiere when it came to editing 4k footage.

What was that saying by Oscar Wilde again about knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing?

 

[va1984]

I cannot believe I waited all year for this thing and only NOW they announce (well, Apple didn't announce anything, the reviewers did) that it's not upgradable. Not even the RAM.

Golf clap for another pathetic move, Tim.

I’m pretty sure the non replaceable ram had been outed after the unveil event this summer...

 

[star-affinity]

I could go on, you get the point. If you want to mess around with specs years after you've bought something buy a PC - even when I used a PC I never bothered upgrading - there's stuff every year that comes out spec wise that I want, that would require an entire new logic/mother board. If people can't afford the spec they want from day one, then either don't buy it or buy a PC and upgrade later when you can afford it, it's not the way i've ever done it though.

I usually agree with what you write, but can't really agree on this. Like melendezest says the Mac Pro (pre black 2013 version) was very upgradable and the Mac Pro (Mid 2010) I have is still a capable machine by today's standards (even if Apple vintage'ed it recently) thanks to 32 GB RAM (it didn't have that from the start), SSD's for the operating systems (Windows 10 and macOS High Sierra), and last but not least: the graphics card I bought in 2015 (Nvidia GTX 970).

I hope something similar is what Apple is building with the upcoming ”modular” Mac Pro. I can't help to think about the graphics card in this new iMac Pro which in a year or so will have a new much more capable version available that you can't change to. If there's any calculating hardware that make big leaps each year it's graphics cards. Now, there is upcoming support for external GPUs via Thunderbolt 3 in High Sierra (still beta as I undersand it), and while a welcome feature that does seem to come with a few caveats compared to a ”real” PCI-E GPU.

 

[Thunderbird]

Yeah, I know. A fully specced out Z8 is way overkill for 99.98% of people, but you can start configuring it at about $3k, and add more later. Is the adding later part that'd make the Mac Pro great again (no pun intended).

Actually the base configuration for that HP workstation is $2439. http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/workstations-z8/index.html
[doublepost=1513122777][/doublepost]

You mean professionals like doctors, architects, economists, real estate brokers, history professors, structural engineers, interior decorators, tax professionals, accountants, dentists, surveyors, musicians, attorneys, statisticians, and on and on?

Or do you mean tech enthusiasts who are in love with their computers who like to tinker? Yes, some like to tinker, especially people who hang out on tech forums. But that's a very tiny segment of Apple's market.

Since when do any of those professions (except for maybe engineers) need a pro workstation computer?