iMac Pro Teardown Highlights Modular RAM, CPU and SSD Along With Redesigned Internals

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. barmann macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Location:
    Germany
    #151
    You missed the point .
    Which was that lack of access to computer internals can be a benefitial design feature - and that is nonsense .

    It's like welding the bonnet of a car shut to keep random people from readjusting the valve timing of the engine , as passerby do .
     
  2. toke lahti macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2007
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    #152
    Are you suggesting that desktop macs don't have PRAM battery any more?
    :D
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    IMG_3265.JPG IMG_3266.JPG
    I really would like Tim & Jonny to explain how these connectors, size of a a tip of a match, hepls Apple Desktop Macs being "better user experience".
    (Yes, I'm waiting for APFS for Fusion Drive. Which comes first: A-2-FD, new mac mini or TB4, mMP or official support for hot swapping eGPU?)
     
  3. Rogifan macrumors P6

    Rogifan

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    #153
    When was the iMac ever billed as a user upgradeable machine?
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    How is this iMac any different than the ones that have come before it? The current design first originated under Steve Jobs. Hardly anything design wise has changed since. Talk about fake news!
     
  4. pl1984 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    #154
    There is a really simple way to satisfy both sides of this debate: Make the system user upgradable. Those who want an upgradable system will be happy and those who never upgrade their systems will likewise be happy. It's a win-win for everyone except all zero people who wanted a thinner iMac.
     
  5. TETENAL macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2014
    #155
    The design did change with regard to accessibility to the RAM.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. cmaier macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Location:
    California
    #156
    How am I wrong? 14000+ machines in our enterprise. No repairs done on-site - if something goes wrong an identical replacement is swapped in and the machine is sent off. And for security reasons the machines mustn’t be opened. These are business requirements. Just because they aren’t your requirements doesn’t invalidate them.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    It’s not just a beneficial design feature in this case - it’s a business requirement. In certain industries you need to have sealed boxes or seal them ourselves - the latter involves distribution and bookkeeping on thousands of keys, where, due to multiple third party security audits one would have to keep paperwork that shows the chain of custody on each key at all times.

    Believe it or not, not every workplace desktop computer is used just to play solitaire, to browse Facebook, and to run FCP. Security is the primary concern in certain industries.

    If passerby’s really ****ed with your engine, you’d weld your car hood shut in a minute.

    People really do want to break into computers that hold information that could be worth billions of dollars.
     
  7. nt5672, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018

    nt5672 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    #157
    There is no problem with unserviceable Macs, they work for some people. The problem is that unserviceable Macs are the only solution available.

    For example, with the current uproar with iPhone 6 batteries, if the battery was user replaceable, then people could have went out and bought a different battery and it would have been no big deal for either Apple or the user.

    Look at the current security flaw in the Intel processor used in most Macs. No way to fix it except buy a new computer or install a software fix that Intel already admits will slow the processor down. No one is saying the slowdown is significant yet, but since they are already setting the stage, my bet is that it is significant.

    For those of us that are not millionaires, replacing a processor to fix this is significantly better than replacing the entire machine. But, we do not have that option, not because of cost, but simply because Apple does not want machines to last any longer than 2 or 3 years.

    Apple is in a similar situation to where auto makers were in the 1970s where quality was so bad because they relied on replacement parts to generate revenue.

    Apple is designing products that need to be replaced every 2 to 3 years and at the same time claiming about how eco friendly they are. The hypocrisy is unnerving.
     
  8. Zarniwoop, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018

    Zarniwoop macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Location:
    West coast, Finland
    #158
    A computer enthusiast who can tinker with the internals are a dying breed like those who can tune their cars. Some of the millennials don't know even how to use a computer... just how to turn it on and start a web browser. And that's it. It's phones & pads with apps. I've heard some students are in a real trouble in college, when they need to learn Excel etc software. It's nearly same starting point as my grandpa had.

    Some car models need a service point even for changing a light bulb. I had a car once that one had to remove the front bumper first in order to get an access to a front lights.

    A lot of car owners don't care if they can change the engine themselves. Or even change the oil. They'll take the car to a car service.

    Apple is following the suite. Majority does not care about the upgradeability. So it's mid-finger for us.
     
  9. cmaier macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Location:
    California
    #159
    I agree entirely. My argument is with his position that there is no beneficial use case for macs that cannot be user services.
     
  10. d4cl00 macrumors newbie

    d4cl00

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    #160
  11. nt5672 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    #161
    I can go to any Harbor Freight (crap Chinese retail distributer here in the US) and buy the service computer/interface for $50 to $150 depending on the options. I can go to the dealer and buy any replacement parts. I can even buy a different/generic computer to run my car if I desire. As I understand it most cars in the US now come with navigation systems that cannot be operated while driving, not even by the passenger. But I can replace the navigation system with one that can be operated by the passenger even for low sales volume cars.

    So while most choose not to, it is because of choice, not because the car manufacturer forced it. And this is in no way comparable to what Apple is doing.

    Car manufacturers do it this way because it is cheaper for them in the long run to deal with parts that degrade. Apple is making the statement that you just need to replace the computer when parts degrade. And while that was a fine strategy when Computers were doubling in processing power every few years and most customers wanted a new computer, now it is not, because computers can be productive far longer than the degradable components like batteries and SSDs.
     
  12. tallscot, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2018

    tallscot macrumors regular

    tallscot

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2002
    #162
    What is your company name and what does it do? Because most pro software is driven by GPU these days and getting a new video card every 2 years makes much more sense than getting a $6K Mac every two years. It's ludicrous and I've never heard of a company with a replacement cycle of two years. In fact, the 2010 Mac Pro with a Titan or Vega 64 video card has been the fastest Mac in 2017.

    Why do Mac users get butt hurt and try to tell other people that their criticism isn't valid? Everyone's criticism is valid. Everyone's need is valid.

    Considering that Apple's Mac sales have been declining and their customers rejected the new Macbook Pro, I'd say Apple should listen to their customers more.

    I'd love to be able to put in a Thunderbolt 3 card in my Mac that has Thunderbolt 2. But I guess you'd just throw out the $6K Mac and buy a new $6K Mac to get Thunderbolt 3. lol
     
  13. Wash08 macrumors newbie

    Wash08

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Location:
    Space
    #163
    You live in a fantasy world if you think Apple ever do that.... They tried the licensing game way back in the late 80's early 90's it did not go too well for them and I doubt they ever coming back to it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_clone
     
  14. pl1984 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    #164
    iMacs still have USB ports. They have Thunderbolt ports. They have Firewire ports. All can be used to offload information from the system. Furthermore this security requirements appears to support the argument for doing in house repairs as opposed to sending the unit out.
     
  15. cmaier macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Location:
    California
    #165
    USB ports are software disabled. And copying files is just one threat. They also have to worry about insertion of interception devices, etc. Machines are serviced by the manufacturer or by carefully audited service providers who are vetted by the manufacturer and the security team.

    The fact that folks refuse to accept that some people have different needs than themselves is an indication of societal rot or bad parenting. Not sure which.
     
  16. pl1984 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    #166
    Unfortunately Apple's systems require they go back to Apple. Third party service providers are unable to perform repairs on the latest systems.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    The issue isn't whether people refuse to accept some people have different needs than themselves. The issue is when people attempt to use those different needs to rationalize away a feature others desire. I cannot see a single, end user benefit to a system which cannot be user serviceable. You don't want / need that capability? No problem, those that want it accept that. However having that capability in no way impacts your ability to use the system as you see fit. No one is forcing you to upgrade / service your systems. Feel free to continue taking it to wherever you take it for upgrades / service.

    On another note: Can the iMacs USB / Thurderbolt / Firewire ports be disabled?
     
  17. cmaier macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Location:
    California
    #167
    The single benefit has been explained to you repeatedly. It’s more important for some customers that it’s impossible for someone to sneak into an office and insert a data-intercepting device into a machine than it is for the machine to be serviceable on site.

    This may not be a feature you require, but it is a feature required in numerous enterprises in industries like law, finance and medical research.

    You say the issue isn’t whether people refuse to accept others have different needs. Then you proceed to say that those needs are invalid and you refuse to accept them two sentences later.

    I’ve never suggested that the need to upgrade and service devices isn’t real for some people. Apple should make machines for those customers. But that doesn’t mean the iMac design isn’t great for other people.
     
  18. pl1984, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018

    pl1984 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    #168
    I do not see how a non-user serviceable system prevents someone from inserting a data-intercepting device. One can install a data intercepting device inline with the keyboard connection (because we all know people inspect their keyboard connections every time they return to their computer), or plug it into an open USB port, or put it inline with a Thunderbolt device (because every user inspect every cable connection upon returning to their computers).
    If you have such security requirements and someone is able to sneak into the office you've got larger issues.

    Furthermore it makes little sense to send a system with such requirements offsite for service. Such a requirement is an argument for user serviceable systems.
     
  19. cmaier macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Location:
    California
    #169
    So, again, you refuse to accept our requirements as valid. You know how to run our business better than us. When our customers perform a security audit and tell us we must have sealed systems we should ignore them and get different customers. Because our system can’t prevent every threat we should accept all threats.

    (And by the way, our USB ports are disabled by MDM)

    This is exactly what I was talking about. I never said Apple shouldn’t make an upgradeable box. I never said many customers don’t need such boxes.

    But I said some customers need sealed boxes. And rather than accept that, you claim superior knowledge and expertise about MY needs. Because on the internet everyone knows better than everyone else, even about other people’s needs. “I like boxes with card slots. So everyone must need them. I like to replace hard drives so everyone should. I never heard of audited service providers so they must not exist. I keep boxes for five years so you’re an idiot or you are lying when you say you don’t.”

    Whatever.
     
  20. pl1984 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    #170
    I accept your requirements as valid. I reject user upgradable systems cannot meet those requirements. My Z-series systems can be locked to prevent people from opening them. One can install tamper seals to easily identify if a system has been opened.

    A user upgradable system is not mutually exclusive to your requirements.
     
  21. fathergll macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2014
    #171

    All electronics are heading this way. Cars will be electric and very complicated, TVs are already thin. Computers in general are headed this way. I'm not sure if people will be building out PCs from Newegg in 50 years.
     
  22. Peperino macrumors regular

    Peperino

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2016
    #172
    A computer with a 5k starting price that
    1- cannot be user upgraded the RAM?
    2- cannot be user upgraded the HD?
    3- That the external design is still over 5 years old...??

    Really?

    No thanks.

    Another big hardware failure.
    Like the Mac Pro
    Like the lastest Macbook Pro

    When are they planning to fire the person in charge of these mistakes?
     
  23. gugy, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018

    gugy macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2005
    Location:
    La Jolla, CA
    #173
    I like the iMac Pro but with that price tag and lack of upgradability. No thank you.

    I am hoping the Mac Pro will allow users to easily upgrade internals but my fear is that Apple will make it in a way you will only be able to use Apple component$ and no chance of third party ones at lower prices. That will be sad but the writing is on the wall looking at the way Apple is doing business in the last few years.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    Preach brother.

    I am a graphic designer and still use my MacPro 2011, 12 core. The machine is a beast and is just one second slower than the current Trash Can Mac Pro on MR Photoshop test.
    I upgraded couple years back my RAM and added PCIe HD on a RAID. All this from third part vendors at reasonable prices. I can only hope Apple will continue to allow this but my fear is that it will not happen like that.
     
  24. Breaking Good macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2012
    #174
    I've commented on this in the past. But it really wouldn't surprise me to see Apple spin off it's desktop and laptop business into a separate company.
     
  25. soupcan macrumors 6502a

    soupcan

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Location:
    Netherlands
    #175
    It's not in the standard 2280 M.2 form which all M.2 high-performance SSDs come in. So no. Not a feasible upgrade unless OCZ comes out with their own version and then charges way more for it than it should actually cost.
     

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