iMac Pro Teardown Highlights Modular RAM, CPU and SSD Along With Redesigned Internals

[barmann]

Except his post isn’t made-up nonsense. My employer doesn’t allow tinkering with work computers either due to regulations around the data being analyzed. Hell, the only way to get software installed is through encrypted package delivery so only software dual-authorized can be pushed to a computer.

You missed the point .
Which was that lack of access to computer internals can be a benefitial design feature - and that is nonsense .

It's like welding the bonnet of a car shut to keep random people from readjusting the valve timing of the engine , as passerby do .

 

[toke lahti]

No, because it does not have batteries.

Are you suggesting that desktop macs don't have PRAM battery any more?

[doublepost=1514985925][/doublepost]

I just had to replace the HD in a mac mini late 2014 with a samsung evo ssd. All went fine but i am still angry about the effort required to upgrade this totally impractical design. Now we have another imac pro which requires a strip down to add ram. Admittedly it sounds great speedwise but I despair about the next mac pro design and wonder if it really will be upgradeable.. I mean all you really need is a squatter version of the old cheesegrater tower with a space grey paint job. A dozen or so xeon cores on a current chipset mobo and space for multiple blade ssds and some conventional drives and regular graphic cards such as nvidia titan, radeon vega etc, and a big tough power supply to suit !

I really would like Tim & Jonny to explain how these connectors, size of a a tip of a match, hepls Apple Desktop Macs being "better user experience".
(Yes, I'm waiting for APFS for Fusion Drive. Which comes first: A-2-FD, new mac mini or TB4, mMP or official support for hot swapping eGPU?)

 

[Rogifan]

This is the bean counter design. Its function is to increase Apple's revenue by promoting hardware replacement, as opposed to hardware upgrades.

When was the iMac ever billed as a user upgradeable machine?
[doublepost=1514986941][/doublepost]

Apple's design philosophy used to come from an engineering and ergonomics perspective. Now it comes from an accounting and marketing perspective. Deep down we all know, Apple is losing its edge and giving the competition free kick after free kick.

It's just not a compelling device.

How is this iMac any different than the ones that have come before it? The current design first originated under Steve Jobs. Hardly anything design wise has changed since. Talk about fake news!

 

[pl1984]

There is a really simple way to satisfy both sides of this debate: Make the system user upgradable. Those who want an upgradable system will be happy and those who never upgrade their systems will likewise be happy. It's a win-win for everyone except all zero people who wanted a thinner iMac.

 

[TETENAL]

When was the iMac ever billed as a user upgradeable machine?
[doublepost=1514986941][/doublepost]
How is this iMac any different than the ones that have come before it? The current design first originated under Steve Jobs. Hardly anything design wise has changed since. Talk about fake news!

The design did change with regard to accessibility to the RAM.

 

[cmaier]

For some people , erectile dysfunction is a feature .
There, I posted made-up nonsense on the internet , let's discuss !

How am I wrong? 14000+ machines in our enterprise. No repairs done on-site - if something goes wrong an identical replacement is swapped in and the machine is sent off. And for security reasons the machines mustn’t be opened. These are business requirements. Just because they aren’t your requirements doesn’t invalidate them.
[doublepost=1514990615][/doublepost]

You missed the point .
Which was that lack of access to computer internals can be a benefitial design feature - and that is nonsense .

It's like welding the bonnet of a car shut to keep random people from readjusting the valve timing of the engine , as passerby do .

It’s not just a beneficial design feature in this case - it’s a business requirement. In certain industries you need to have sealed boxes or seal them ourselves - the latter involves distribution and bookkeeping on thousands of keys, where, due to multiple third party security audits one would have to keep paperwork that shows the chain of custody on each key at all times.

Believe it or not, not every workplace desktop computer is used just to play solitaire, to browse Facebook, and to run FCP. Security is the primary concern in certain industries.

If passerby’s really ****ed with your engine, you’d weld your car hood shut in a minute.

People really do want to break into computers that hold information that could be worth billions of dollars.

 

[nt5672]

My employer doesn’t service anything. When the machine breaks they swap in an identical one and send the broken machine off for service. Your solution is fifteen thousand keys (and you can’t explain why a master key isn’t a terrible insecure idea).

There is no problem with unserviceable Macs, they work for some people. The problem is that unserviceable Macs are the only solution available.

For example, with the current uproar with iPhone 6 batteries, if the battery was user replaceable, then people could have went out and bought a different battery and it would have been no big deal for either Apple or the user.

Look at the current security flaw in the Intel processor used in most Macs. No way to fix it except buy a new computer or install a software fix that Intel already admits will slow the processor down. No one is saying the slowdown is significant yet, but since they are already setting the stage, my bet is that it is significant.

For those of us that are not millionaires, replacing a processor to fix this is significantly better than replacing the entire machine. But, we do not have that option, not because of cost, but simply because Apple does not want machines to last any longer than 2 or 3 years.

Apple is in a similar situation to where auto makers were in the 1970s where quality was so bad because they relied on replacement parts to generate revenue.

Apple is designing products that need to be replaced every 2 to 3 years and at the same time claiming about how eco friendly they are. The hypocrisy is unnerving.

 

[Zarniwoop]

A computer enthusiast who can tinker with the internals are a dying breed like those who can tune their cars. Some of the millennials don't know even how to use a computer... just how to turn it on and start a web browser. And that's it. It's phones & pads with apps. I've heard some students are in a real trouble in college, when they need to learn Excel etc software. It's nearly same starting point as my grandpa had.

Some car models need a service point even for changing a light bulb. I had a car once that one had to remove the front bumper first in order to get an access to a front lights.

A lot of car owners don't care if they can change the engine themselves. Or even change the oil. They'll take the car to a car service.

Apple is following the suite. Majority does not care about the upgradeability. So it's mid-finger for us.

 

[cmaier]

There is no problem with unserviceable Macs, they work for some people. The problem is that unserviceable Macs is the only solution available.

For example, with the current uproar with iPhone 6 batteries, if the battery was user replaceable, then people could have went out and bought a different battery and it would have been no big deal for either Apple or the user.

Look at the current security flaw in the Intel processor used in most Macs. No way to fix it except buy a new computer or install a software fix that Intel already admits will slow the processor down. No one is saying the slowdown is significant yet, but since they are already setting the stage, my bet is that it is significant.

For those of us that are not millionaires, replacing a processor to fix this is significantly better than replacing the entire machine. But, we do not have that option, not because of cost, but simply because Apple does not want machines to last any longer than 2 or 3 years.

Apple is in a similar situation to where auto makers were in the 1970s where quality was so bad because they relied on replacement parts to generate revenue.

Apple is designing products that need to be replaced every 2 to 3 years and at the same time claiming about how eco friendly they are. The hypocrisy is unnerving.

I agree entirely. My argument is with his position that there is no beneficial use case for macs that cannot be user services.

 

[d4cl00]

Does it get throttled when its battery is under 80% capacity?

For iMacs we have a buggy Intel processor to throttle your PC for no additional cost:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

 

[nt5672]

Computer enthusiast who can tinker with the internals are a dying breed like those who can tune their cars.

Some car models need a service point even for changing a light bulb. I had a car once that one had to remove the front bumper first in order to get an access to a front lights.

A lot of car owners don't care if they can change the engine themselves. Or even change the oil. They'll take it to a car service.

Apple is following the suite.

I can go to any Harbor Freight (crap Chinese retail distributer here in the US) and buy the service computer/interface for $50 to $150 depending on the options. I can go to the dealer and buy any replacement parts. I can even buy a different/generic computer to run my car if I desire. As I understand it most cars in the US now come with navigation systems that cannot be operated while driving, not even by the passenger. But I can replace the navigation system with one that can be operated by the passenger even for low sales volume cars.

So while most choose not to, it is because of choice, not because the car manufacturer forced it. And this is in no way comparable to what Apple is doing.

Car manufacturers do it this way because it is cheaper for them in the long run to deal with parts that degrade. Apple is making the statement that you just need to replace the computer when parts degrade. And while that was a fine strategy when Computers were doubling in processing power every few years and most customers wanted a new computer, now it is not, because computers can be productive far longer than the degradable components like batteries and SSDs.

 

[tallscot]

Our company routinely buys top-of-the-line computers (and other equipment) every 2 years. The cost of computers is a tiny fraction of what the employees who use them make. And their increased productivity from using the latest machines easily makes up for the cost of those machines. Fiscally speaking, for us it would be stupid to keep a machine for many years and try to extend its life through upgrades.

What is your company name and what does it do? Because most pro software is driven by GPU these days and getting a new video card every 2 years makes much more sense than getting a $6K Mac every two years. It's ludicrous and I've never heard of a company with a replacement cycle of two years. In fact, the 2010 Mac Pro with a Titan or Vega 64 video card has been the fastest Mac in 2017.

Why do Mac users get butt hurt and try to tell other people that their criticism isn't valid? Everyone's criticism is valid. Everyone's need is valid.

Considering that Apple's Mac sales have been declining and their customers rejected the new Macbook Pro, I'd say Apple should listen to their customers more.

I'd love to be able to put in a Thunderbolt 3 card in my Mac that has Thunderbolt 2. But I guess you'd just throw out the $6K Mac and buy a new $6K Mac to get Thunderbolt 3. lol

 

[Wash08]

What Apple needs to make and sell is a "Hackintosh". Apple could buy the "Z8" type workstations from HP and put their own Apple sticker over the logo then load MacOS and people would buy these by the truckload. It is what every Mac Pro user wants. The Z8 has ECC RAM a 10-core xeon and nVidia GPU and sells for just under $2500

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/..._us/en/psg/hp_desktop_workstations/z8-mdplink

These HP machines have a high top tend. Foe example you can order two of the top end Xeon CPUs and end up with something like 72 virtual CPU cores and the ECC RAM maxes out at 784GB (yes that is 784 GB RAM, not the SSD)

In any case why spend the money on engineering, just buy the Z8, paint it silver and load Mac OS. This is EXACTLY what everyone has been asking for. Apple could have these on the market in a week

I actually bought an earlier version of this when it went off-lease. The specs were right, the thing really does weight in at 49 pounds. They are built like tanks and my 3 year old "Z" workstation is still the fastest computer I've ever owned. I use it for machine learning experiments and robotics.

You live in a fantasy world if you think Apple ever do that.... They tried the licensing game way back in the late 80's early 90's it did not go too well for them and I doubt they ever coming back to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_clone

 

[pl1984]

How am I wrong? 14000+ machines in our enterprise. No repairs done on-site - if something goes wrong an identical replacement is swapped in and the machine is sent off. And for security reasons the machines mustn’t be opened. These are business requirements. Just because they aren’t your requirements doesn’t invalidate them.
[doublepost=1514990615][/doublepost]

It’s not just a beneficial design feature in this case - it’s a business requirement. In certain industries you need to have sealed boxes or seal them ourselves - the latter involves distribution and bookkeeping on thousands of keys, where, due to multiple third party security audits one would have to keep paperwork that shows the chain of custody on each key at all times.

Believe it or not, not every workplace desktop computer is used just to play solitaire, to browse Facebook, and to run FCP. Security is the primary concern in certain industries.

If passerby’s really ****ed with your engine, you’d weld your car hood shut in a minute.

People really do want to break into computers that hold information that could be worth billions of dollars.

iMacs still have USB ports. They have Thunderbolt ports. They have Firewire ports. All can be used to offload information from the system. Furthermore this security requirements appears to support the argument for doing in house repairs as opposed to sending the unit out.

 

[cmaier]

iMacs still have USB ports. They have Thunderbolt ports. They have Firewire ports. All can be used to offload information from the system. Furthermore this security requirements appears to support the argument for doing in house repairs as opposed to sending the unit out.

USB ports are software disabled. And copying files is just one threat. They also have to worry about insertion of interception devices, etc. Machines are serviced by the manufacturer or by carefully audited service providers who are vetted by the manufacturer and the security team.

The fact that folks refuse to accept that some people have different needs than themselves is an indication of societal rot or bad parenting. Not sure which.

 

[pl1984]

A computer enthusiast who can tinker with the internals are a dying breed like those who can tune their cars. Some of the millennials don't know even how to use a computer... just how to turn it on and start a web browser. And that's it. It's phones & pads with apps. I've heard some students are in a real trouble in college, when they need to learn Excel etc software. It's nearly same starting point as my grandpa had.

Some car models need a service point even for changing a light bulb. I had a car once that one had to remove the front bumper first in order to get an access to a front lights.

A lot of car owners don't care if they can change the engine themselves. Or even change the oil. They'll take the car to a car service.

Apple is following the suite. Majority does not care about the upgradeability. So it's mid-finger for us.

Unfortunately Apple's systems require they go back to Apple. Third party service providers are unable to perform repairs on the latest systems.
[doublepost=1514993051][/doublepost]

USB ports are software disabled. And copying files is just one threat. They also have to worry about insertion of interception devices, etc. Machines are serviced by the manufacturer or by carefully audited service providers who are vetted by the manufacturer and the security team.

The fact that folks refuse to accept that some people have different needs than themselves is an indication of societal rot or bad parenting. Not sure which.

The issue isn't whether people refuse to accept some people have different needs than themselves. The issue is when people attempt to use those different needs to rationalize away a feature others desire. I cannot see a single, end user benefit to a system which cannot be user serviceable. You don't want / need that capability? No problem, those that want it accept that. However having that capability in no way impacts your ability to use the system as you see fit. No one is forcing you to upgrade / service your systems. Feel free to continue taking it to wherever you take it for upgrades / service.

On another note: Can the iMacs USB / Thurderbolt / Firewire ports be disabled?

 

[cmaier]

Unfortunately Apple's systems require they go back to Apple. Third party service providers are unable to perform repairs on the latest systems.
[doublepost=1514993051][/doublepost]
The issue isn't whether people refuse to accept some people have different needs than themselves. The issue is when people attempt to use those different needs to rationalize away a feature others desire. I cannot see a single, end user benefit to a system which cannot be user serviceable. You don't want / need that capability? No problem, those that want it accept that. However having that capability in no way impacts your ability to use the system as you see fit. No one is forcing you to upgrade / service your systems. Feel free to continue taking it to wherever you take it for upgrades / service.

On another note: Can the iMacs USB / Thurderbolt / Firewire ports be disabled?

The single benefit has been explained to you repeatedly. It’s more important for some customers that it’s impossible for someone to sneak into an office and insert a data-intercepting device into a machine than it is for the machine to be serviceable on site.

This may not be a feature you require, but it is a feature required in numerous enterprises in industries like law, finance and medical research.

You say the issue isn’t whether people refuse to accept others have different needs. Then you proceed to say that those needs are invalid and you refuse to accept them two sentences later.

I’ve never suggested that the need to upgrade and service devices isn’t real for some people. Apple should make machines for those customers. But that doesn’t mean the iMac design isn’t great for other people.

 

[pl1984]

The single benefit has been explained to you repeatedly. It’s more important for some customers that it’s impossible for someone to sneak into an office and insert a data-intercepting device into a machine than it is for the machine to be serviceable on site.

This may not be a feature you require, but it is a feature required in numerous enterprises in industries like law, finance and medical research.

You say the issue isn’t whether people refuse to accept others have different needs. Then you proceed to say that those needs are invalid and you refuse to accept them two sentences later.

I’ve never suggested that the need to upgrade and service devices isn’t real for some people. Apple should make machines for those customers. But that doesn’t mean the iMac design isn’t great for other people.

I do not see how a non-user serviceable system prevents someone from inserting a data-intercepting device. One can install a data intercepting device inline with the keyboard connection (because we all know people inspect their keyboard connections every time they return to their computer), or plug it into an open USB port, or put it inline with a Thunderbolt device (because every user inspect every cable connection upon returning to their computers).

If you have such security requirements and someone is able to sneak into the office you've got larger issues.​

Furthermore it makes little sense to send a system with such requirements offsite for service. Such a requirement is an argument for user serviceable systems.

 

[cmaier]

I do not see how a non-user serviceable system prevents someone from inserting a data-intercepting device. One can install a data intercepting device inline with the keyboard connection (because we all know people inspect their keyboard connections every time they return to their computer), or plug it into an open USB port, or put it inline with a Thunderbolt device (because every user inspect every cable connection upon returning to their computers).

If you have such security requirements and someone is able to sneak into the office you've got larger issues.​

Furthermore it makes little sense to send a system with such requirements offsite for service. Such a requirement is an argument for user serviceable systems.

So, again, you refuse to accept our requirements as valid. You know how to run our business better than us. When our customers perform a security audit and tell us we must have sealed systems we should ignore them and get different customers. Because our system can’t prevent every threat we should accept all threats.

(And by the way, our USB ports are disabled by MDM)

This is exactly what I was talking about. I never said Apple shouldn’t make an upgradeable box. I never said many customers don’t need such boxes.

But I said some customers need sealed boxes. And rather than accept that, you claim superior knowledge and expertise about MY needs. Because on the internet everyone knows better than everyone else, even about other people’s needs. “I like boxes with card slots. So everyone must need them. I like to replace hard drives so everyone should. I never heard of audited service providers so they must not exist. I keep boxes for five years so you’re an idiot or you are lying when you say you don’t.”

Whatever.

 

[pl1984]

So, again, you refuse to accept our requirements as valid. You know how to run our business better than us. When our customers perform a security audit and tell us we must have sealed systems we should ignore them and get different customers. Because our system can’t prevent every threat we should accept all threats.

(And by the way, our USB ports are disabled by MDM)

This is exactly what I was talking about. I never said Apple shouldn’t make an upgradeable box. I never said many customers don’t need such boxes.

But I said some customers need sealed boxes. And rather than accept that, you claim superior knowledge and expertise about MY needs. Because on the internet everyone knows better than everyone else, even about other people’s needs. “I like boxes with card slots. So everyone must need them. I like to replace hard drives so everyone should. I never heard of audited service providers so they must not exist. I keep boxes for five years so you’re an idiot or you are lying when you say you don’t.”

Whatever.

I accept your requirements as valid. I reject user upgradable systems cannot meet those requirements. My Z-series systems can be locked to prevent people from opening them. One can install tamper seals to easily identify if a system has been opened.

A user upgradable system is not mutually exclusive to your requirements.

 

[fathergll]

This is the bean counter design. Its function is to increase Apple's revenue by promoting hardware replacement, as opposed to hardware upgrades.

All electronics are heading this way. Cars will be electric and very complicated, TVs are already thin. Computers in general are headed this way. I'm not sure if people will be building out PCs from Newegg in 50 years.

 

[Peperino]

A computer with a 5k starting price that
1- cannot be user upgraded the RAM?
2- cannot be user upgraded the HD?
3- That the external design is still over 5 years old...??

Really?

No thanks.

Another big hardware failure.
Like the Mac Pro
Like the lastest Macbook Pro

When are they planning to fire the person in charge of these mistakes?

 

[gugy]

I like the iMac Pro but with that price tag and lack of upgradability. No thank you.

I am hoping the Mac Pro will allow users to easily upgrade internals but my fear is that Apple will make it in a way you will only be able to use Apple component$ and no chance of third party ones at lower prices. That will be sad but the writing is on the wall looking at the way Apple is doing business in the last few years.
[doublepost=1514996732][/doublepost]

And what do you do for a living? I have over a dozen friends who are designers, photographers, editors, 3D animators, special FX artists, color graders with Davinci Resolve...and all of them have switched to Windows PCs because of this issue.

The last friend to do so was last year. He was a Mac user with two Macs. He used Premiere Pro to edit indie movies. He had a guy build him a custom PC tower and he now uses the Adobe Creative Cloud suite on that. It cost him $2K. Unlike my $6K 2013 Mac Pro, his PC does Thunderbolt 3 because he just popped in a card. And, no, I don't want to buy a $5K iMac Pro (minimum) just so I can have Thunderbolt 3, even though Thunderbolt 3 RAID drives are 3X faster than my Thunderbolt 2 RAID.

The idea that content creators are throwing out $6K Macs every 2 years and happy to do so is just simply idiotic. It's the dumbest thing I've read on these forums.

Preach brother.

I am a graphic designer and still use my MacPro 2011, 12 core. The machine is a beast and is just one second slower than the current Trash Can Mac Pro on MR Photoshop test.
I upgraded couple years back my RAM and added PCIe HD on a RAID. All this from third part vendors at reasonable prices. I can only hope Apple will continue to allow this but my fear is that it will not happen like that.

 

[Breaking Good]

I wonder if Apple should sell their Mac business and focus on their iOS products at this point. I bet a company that had most of their profits coming from their Macs would really do some great things.

I've commented on this in the past. But it really wouldn't surprise me to see Apple spin off it's desktop and laptop business into a separate company.

 

[soupcan]

Uhm... did you read the article? Please don’t twist words to fit your narrative.

“it’s not clear if an upgrade is actually feasible”

It's not in the standard 2280 M.2 form which all M.2 high-performance SSDs come in. So no. Not a feasible upgrade unless OCZ comes out with their own version and then charges way more for it than it should actually cost.