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$2400 extra for 96 gb more of RAM? What are they? Nuts?

Actually, this is not surprising. iMacs use the smaller (laptop size) SO-DIMM memory sticks because there's not much room in the case, and they only have 4 slots. That means, for 128GB of memory, you need 4 32GB SO-DIMM sticks. Try finding 32GB SO-DIMM sticks for sale. You won't, because memory companies haven't been able to cram that much memory into a single SO-DIMM stick until presumably now, and the iMac Pro is probably one of the first products to use these new higher capacity sticks. The fact that it's ECC memory only makes them even more expensive.
 
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Actually, this is not surprising. iMacs use the smaller (laptop size) SO-DIMM memory sticks because there's not much room in the case, and they only have 4 slots. That means, for 128GB of memory, you need 4 32GB SO-DIMM sticks. Try finding 32GB SO-DIMM sticks for sale. You won't, because memory companies haven't been able to cram that much memory into a single SO-DIMM stick until presumably now, and the iMac Pro is probably one of the first products to use these new higher capacity sticks. The fact that it's ECC memory only makes them even more expensive.
No it’s not SO-DIMM but even third party RAM is $400 for the 32GB sticks. So $1600 third party or $2,400 from Apple. Most corporate/ enterprise/ business users will prefer Apple in any case. Smaller shops might prefer to save the money and have some local repair shop put it in but most of the target market for iMac Pro will simply order what they need from Apple.
 
These machines will probably hold their value extremely well - can you say the same about similar spec'd PC build over time?

I don't know why people wish an Apple at PC prices or form oh wait... buy a Dell or HP or something. Enjoy that experience. I boot dup some old PC's the other day WIN 7 stuff to see if it was still working... hours of failed downloads. I forgot about all that fun! Ugh. Not even sure they're worth anything to sell.

Cost of ownership of Mac is best experience over time IMHO. Once you get over the hump you realise ok... I get it.
 
The whole design of this thing is a show-off of why the current Apple is against the traditional Mac Pro concept. The current Apple wants to be in control of your choices and moves. The traditional Mac Pro put you in control, and Apple cannot permit that anymore. The only hope for the promised “modular Mac Pro” is that this weird thing fails like the cylinder. And still... what will the current Apple mean by “modular”?

I'm starting to get it.
Unfortunately "modular" has to be intended, probably, like closed, high level, building blocks. So not modular inside, but modular outside, like the outer expandability of trashcan Mac Pro, but closing the single piece even more.
At lease one module could be the GPU.
That's my guess.
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These machines will probably hold their value extremely well - can you say the same about similar spec'd PC build over time?

I don't know why people wish an Apple at PC prices or form oh wait... buy a Dell or HP or something. Enjoy that experience. I boot dup some old PC's the other day WIN 7 stuff to see if it was still working... hours of failed downloads. I forgot about all that fun! Ugh. Not even sure they're worth anything to sell.

Cost of ownership of Mac is best experience over time IMHO. Once you get over the hump you realise ok... I get it.

True, Macs are solid machines and maintain a big slice of their value over time.
But don't underestimate the absolute value loss.
Even just a 20% price loss on a $5K machines is $1000, enough to buy a custom, really modular PC workstation.
 
Why is it a joke? High Sierra now allows a wide range of Macs (including 2013 Mac Pros) to use eGPU boxes, which would include things like the GTX 1080 Ti or Titan Xp Pascal. Doesn't matter if you have Thunderbolt 2 or 3...there are eGPUs available that work with those.

Click on the link I gave and read it. They show the eGPU numbers. The seven-year old Mac is faster.
 
Lighten up? It's the same argument for why Apple has NOT touched the Mac Mini.

2012 Mac Mini - SUPER versatile machine that was perfectly suited for Grandma and Grandpa as well as powerful enough to get some non-GPU intensive tasks done efficiently. By all accounts, a popular machine.

2014 Mac Mini - Glued in, CPU crippled albatross. ONLY good for Grandma and Grandpa. Sales tanked as 2012 Mac Minis became worth their weight in gold.

No updates since, as most speculate it's due to poor sales of the 2014 Mac Mini - Gee, I wonder why.

So that posters fear of a limited audience for the iMac Pro(think 2014 Mac Mini and Grandma), is well founded, IMHO.
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So re-outfitting everyone with new iMac Pros, every 2-years is better Cap-Ex than upgrading parts as needed, over the course of many years? I'd LOVE to see you review your budget with the CEO on year 3, compared to my budget.

I know there are lots of studies done by Apple to show that Macs are cheaper to maintain than PCs, but I highly doubt the study was limited to the high end machines. I'm sure it centered on idiots bringing in viruses, and users taking crappy care of their blah beige boxes. it's an entire order of magnitude greater level of respect for creatives and their precious machines.

First, I can't explain letting the Mini lie fallow for so long. I'm sure somewhere Phil Schiller has the data. The only thing I can fathom is that Apple clearly doesn't consider it to be a critical part of their business with an important constituancy of customers. With 75% of Macs being notebooks and the iMac taking up the lion's share of the 25% that's left, the Mini is a rounding error in Apple's total business. That doesn't mean its not important. If Apple made a new one with modern chips and Thunderbolt 3, I'd buy one now to retire an elderly 2008 Mac Pro server in my basement. But the Mac Mini has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Now to your point...if we were talking about companies looking at CapEx on their books, you might have a point. Might. But the bigger outfits who are Apple's potential customers of the iMac Pro are likely leasing these machines, which means you're talking OpEx, not CapEx. Large IT departments have been shedding CapEx like the plague of late...just look at the explosion of cloud computing deals versus conventional software purchases. I work for a huge, household name hardware/software company that acquires a lot of Macs. We lease them. They fill a purpose for a few years and then they are returned to the leasing company, replaced by whatever machines are on the procurement list. And I'm sure that the people who qualify for the iMac Pro for their job description will be all over this machine.

Again, it's not like there isn't a need for a modular pro machine. Even Apple has admitted it. But it's been abundantly clear for awhile that some Pro customers have been buying fully loaded iMacs for certain jobs for years now and have told Apple they'd like to see something between the iMac and Mac Pro. This is that machine.
 
I'm curious - do you really believe that you know more about the market for these machines than Apple? Do you think your anecdotal and most likely biased evidence has more weight than the millions of dollars of market research Apple has invested into this machine?

If what you're saying is true, why would Apple intentionally release a $5k machine that doesn't suit the market it's aimed for? The answer is simple: they wouldn't.

Every time Apple releases a new device, whether it be an iPhone, MacBook, iMac Pro, or anything else, people on MR predict The End Times™. It seems no one can get past their own opinions. "It isn't right for me, so it isn't right for anyone". And every time that happens, the device breaks all records and outsells everything else on the market - proving that Apple knows exactly what they're doing, and the MR community doesn't represent the Apple consumer base. One would think the MR community would learn from this, but they don't - it's the same story for everything Apple releases.

LOL. That's cute. Mac G4 Cube. Hockey puck mouse. Macintosh TV. Just off the top of my head.

And every time that happens, the device breaks all records and outsells everything else on the market

That's a total lie.

Apple Losing Out As Consumers Reject The New MacBook Pro
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewansp...book-customer-satisfaction-fall/#30c9c81a6e0d

Turns out "pros" want more interfaces built into their "pro" laptop.

Mac sales continue decline in Q3, Apple drops to 5th place worldwide
http://appleinsider.com/articles/17...line-in-q3-apple-drops-to-5th-place-worldwide

All I'm saying is I won't be buying another Mac desktop for my professional content creation work unless I can upgrade it in the ways I described and I gave my reasons on a comments board. Your argument is to ignore all the valid reasons I gave and just said, "Well, Apple wouldn't put it out if it wasn't what most people want." I don't want it. Nobody I know wants it. That's all I'm saying.

Most people want Windows PCs, obviously.
 
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You really think that their initial announcement of the iMac Pro was just a regular announcement? It was damage control. This machine was already in the works when the people making the top-level decisions at Apple finally got it through their thick heads that the path they were on with their "pro" machines was terminally flawed. This machine was going to be the replacement for the Mac Pro, but only NOW Apple was making it out to be just another soon-to-come option for their pro users, and that the REAL Mac Pro replacement was coming some time later. They had only just started the process of making said Mac Pro replacement. The iMac Pro was going to be their only offering for the pro customer base. Any other take on this situation is naive.

When did I say it was a "normal" announcement? If course it was damage control, difficult for most companies and especially for Apple. The fact that they did it at all was refreshing. And no, I not think this machine was going to be the replacement for the Mac Pro. If they are hearing an earful from the 2013 design, what makes you think that an Mac Pro in the form of an all-in-one will make anyone happy? Stop with the stupid conspiracy theories.

No, the iMac Pro was birthed from the fact that many Pro customers have been telling Apple for a long time that they would buy an iMac for some specific jobs if it didn't have laptop parts in it, specifically memory. Many companies had already been buying fulling loaded iMacs for some creative purposes. It was designed to fill that niche. And right on cue, the peanut gallery here is complaining that it isn't the machine they were looking for, despite Apple already telegraphing that this machine would be first and a new modular Mac Pro would come later in 2018.

And personally I think the main reason why the Mac Pro hasn't been redesigned and put on the marketplace already is that they are waiting for something specific that isn't available right this second. I think the feature in question is PCIe 4.0. I think Apple doesn't want to have to come back and redesign the backbone bus of this machine if they'd introduced a new machine in 2017. But I think that by WWDC, they'll have the design ready, supply chain ready and manufacturing set up for that new machine.
 
Or just do it yourself for a fraction of the cost with a relatively simple process. I upgraded my folks 2015 21.5” iMac this summer to 16GB memory and a 1TB SSD for a third the cost Apple quoted me. The process was tedious but only took about an hour and a lagging workhouse is now blazing fast and should hold up for another 6 years. Well worth the money and time spent.

I will say once again it is ridiculous that Apple’s design choice means users will either be extorted or have to void their warranty just to perform an upgrade that used to be dead simple in previous models. Really getting sick of this new move towards maximum profits at the expense of power user friendly design.
 
All I'm saying is I won't be buying another Mac desktop for my professional content creation work unless I can upgrade it in the ways I described and I gave my reasons on a comments board. Your argument is to ignore all the valid reasons I gave and just said, "Well, Apple wouldn't put it out if it wasn't what most people want." I don't want it. Nobody I know wants it. That's all I'm saying.

Most people want Windows PCs, obviously.

Can you describe what you do for a living? Are you an independent, work for a smaller company or a larger company (>1000 people)?
 
And personally I think the main reason why the Mac Pro hasn't been redesigned and put on the marketplace already is that they are waiting for something specific that isn't available right this second. I think the feature in question is PCIe 4.0. I think Apple doesn't want to have to come back and redesign the backbone bus of this machine if they'd introduced a new machine in 2017. But I think that by WWDC, they'll have the design ready, supply chain ready and manufacturing set up for that new machine.


Their Mac sales have declined and they are now 5th in the world.

My friend who uses Premiere Pro and switched from an iMac to a custom-built PC can simply swap out his motherboard when PCIe 4.0 comes out. Motherboards are like $100-$150.
 
I got some ram that went bad on me in my MBP from crucial.com. I ended up paying for that same ram twice just to get my computer up and running! Later, when Purchasing my iMac, I decided to pay the Apple tax and let them do the installation so that they would have deal with it if it went bad again. It didn’t go bad (so far) or give me any issues at all. If you’ve ever had ram go bad, then, you’ll know it can be very frustrating and even cause you to loose some data. Frankly, it’s not worth it to save a few bucks on a thousand dollar machine. I don’t mind paying Apple as their ram isn’t as outrageously priced as in previous years and you’ll get to have it covered by the warrantee or AppleCare depending on what you need.
 
Can you describe what you do for a living? Are you an independent, work for a smaller company or a larger company (>1000 people)?

Freelance. I have a home studio.

I edit independent films shot on various cameras – 1080p DSLRs up to 5K RED.
I create motion graphics for broadcast and streaming corporate communications/marketing.
I also create PowerPoint decks for corporate clients.

I have a lot of friends who are editors, cinematographers, color graders, sound designers. I go to film festivals and meet those kinds of people from all over the world.

One friend of mine does FX with high level software that uses Octane Render, etc. He worked on a few big Hollywood movies. His #1 complaint about Macs was how much slower at rendering they are compared to PCs.

I have a few Macs including a 2007(?) Mac Pro tower. I've been able to upgrade that Mac Pro for 9 years now. I've upgraded the video card three times, and I put in a SSD drive that goes into one of the PCI slots. It boots in seconds and apps launch lightning quick, on a 9-year old computer. The resell value of a 2012 Mac Pro tower is very high, to this day, because people are buying them and putting in the latest nVidia graphics card, SSD drives, etc. and those are faster than the latest Macs that cost $5K and up.
 
People (who aren't in the market for this machine) will still complain that "pros" can't open it up themselves to upgrade the internals. Because all "pros" are techie people who open up their machines.


Adding RAM to a machine is not rocket science. If you can't figure out how to open a trap door and pop in a SIMM you're probably also not technically adept enough to call yourself a pro.
 
Adding RAM to a machine is not rocket science. If you can't figure out how to open a trap door and pop in a SIMM you're probably also not technically adept enough to call yourself a pro.

Lots of IT companies do very simple tasks, not because the end user doesn't have knowledge, but because it removes liability should something go wrong. It can also prevent the voiding of a warranty. The iMac Pro's lack of a RAM door won't be a barrier for purchase to the enterprises that will purchase them.
 
Freelance. I have a home studio.

I edit independent films shot on various cameras – 1080p DSLRs up to 5K RED.
I create motion graphics for broadcast and streaming corporate communications/marketing.
I also create PowerPoint decks for corporate clients.

I have a lot of friends who are editors, cinematographers, color graders, sound designers. I go to film festivals and meet those kinds of people from all over the world.

One friend of mine does FX with high level software that uses Octane Render, etc. He worked on a few big Hollywood movies. His #1 complaint about Macs was how much slower at rendering they are compared to PCs.

I have a few Macs including a 2007(?) Mac Pro tower. I've been able to upgrade that Mac Pro for 9 years now. I've upgraded the video card three times, and I put in a SSD drive that goes into one of the PCI slots. It boots in seconds and apps launch lightning quick, on a 9-year old computer. The resell value of a 2012 Mac Pro tower is very high, to this day, because people are buying them and putting in the latest nVidia graphics card, SSD drives, etc. and those are faster than the latest Macs that cost $5K and up.

OK, what you do and how you do it make my point. I live in a city with a strong creative community, mostly music types, and lots of them Mac users. I have many friends like you and your needs mirror them. One friend specifically has only bought Mac Pro type machines since the original Mac II become available...and I should know, I set it up for him when I was in college. Today his studio has numerous Mac Pros (he works alone) that are usually all 2009-2012 vintage. He's retired a 2006 and 2008 recently which he gifted to me (the 2006 is powered off, the 2008 is a new server in my house hacked to run High Sierra). This guy also still has a PowerMac 9600 in production that is hooked up to a specific film scanner still running Mac OS 8.6. I told him that if the hard drive (now 20+ years old) ever failed, I doubt I could ever get another one for him.

The point is that like you, he buys modular Macs and keeps them for a very long time. He upgrades video cards and memory if necessary. But he is dead set against going the hackintosh route since he depends on the reliability of the platform. Case in point...I recently built a brand Windows PC tower for him for the sole purpose of being a dedicated flight simulator computer driving three 65" curved Samsung 4K TVs. We spent about $4K on parts for the machine alone (including X99 ASUS mobo, Intel Xeon 6950 with 8 cores, 32 GB of RAM, 2 TB of flash memory, two Nvidia GTX 1080 cards). And even with high quality off the shelf parts from major vendors and the latest Windows 10 from Microsoft, it took me 3 months to get the machine completely stable, even without overclocking. He would NEVER tolerate that for a production machine for his photo business. Even the 2008 Mac Pro he retired was disposed of because it wouldn't boot anymore. Turns out the problem was a failed memory DIMM that he'd installed himself a while back.

Smaller outfits and indies like you are used to buying a machine that has an upgrade path down the road to keep it in production as long as possible. I am also like that since my house is full of hardware kept alive long past the point most people would keep it in production. But when you open a chassis to make changes, you always run the risk of screwing something up. For people like you and me, it's a risk we regularly take. But I also work for a very large company who would never bother taking that risk for user machines. We've even gotten to the point where we don't allow companies who buy our servers to make memory upgrades to them anymore...too many times we've seen a machine that doesn't survive an upgrade to a mission critical system (and yes, I've seen this first hand).

Your friend complains about the speed of professional Macs....is that really a shock? The 2012 Mac Pro is indeed like gold these days since it's the last machine you can still stick a modern Nvidia video card in. But the Xeon technology including the memory bus and all supporting systems are over 5 years old, which is an eternity these days. The 2013 Mac Pro is better but again, we're talking about 4 years old (not counting the most recent spec bump). Compare that to the Flight Sim rig I built and that's easily the fastest machine I've ever had in my house, going away. And of course, the top of the line 2017 iMac (not Pro) is faster single threaded than the 2013 Mac Pro and is competitive with that machine out to 4 cores before the Mac Pro finally starts pulling away. Why? Well, time marches on and it's not a surprise that consumer grade chips will eventually match or exceed server grade Xeons.

I do think you will get a Mac Pro that you will consider something "for you", probably in six months. I think Apple has learned that lesson. There has been a tension at Apple on upgradeability versus "appliance" since the first Mac 128K appeared. Before that, everybody was very used to cracking open the top of their Apple ][ and making changes. Apple couldn't have gotten to the point it is if it still built everything for tinkerers like us. But we are still an important (and vocal) minority of users, especially in the high profit pro space. But please understand that not all "Pro" users have the same economic model that you do in terms in technology purchases. The iMac Pro is for them, not you.
 
You looked at the prices of 128GB of RAM lately? It’s pushing $2000 for non-ECC. They are upcharging a bit for sure (it is Apple RAM after-all) but it’s not that extreme. You have to keep in mind that chances are they aren’t just adding extra sticks, they are replacing what’s there with the full 128GB so your pricing comparison needs to reflect that.
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To get these specs I doubt you’ll save a ton of money. I’d rather pay the slight extra charge to know that a software update won’t brick my workstation.

Mind you not being able to upgrade anything later is a fair argument but that’s never been the case with iMacs.

I guess with the Hacintosh, I can choose Nvidia card if I want but if I buy an iMac PRO, I am stuck with AMD's GPU.

Also, if I want a pink iMac PRO, I will have to paint on such expensive computer.

But upgrading to High Sierra caused some users problems such as the recent security issue. I just stay with macOS for the time being. So, Mac being able to upgrade the the latest version of the OS may not be as desirable as in the past.
 
So, what do you do it you don’t?
Give up and find a job stacking shelves or buy a PC?

I can’t afford a Race car. My life doesn’t end. But if I was in the business where I needed one, then I know buying it would bring all the expenses that comes along with it.

If you are in the market for a machine like this. Then you wouldn’t blink at any associated costs. This is not a machine for looks or to satisfy some spec lust. It is a workstation.
 
People (who aren't in the market for this machine) will still complain that "pros" can't open it up themselves to upgrade the internals. Because all "pros" are techie people who open up their machines.

And people like you will assume that people in the market don’t know how to do their own work.
 
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It's a limited argument. RAM can be upgraded, but unless you're a tear down enthusiast you need to take it to a shop. That doesn't = can't be upgraded. The boot drive is easily self-upgraded using Thunderbolt 3. The GPU is easily upgraded using High Sierra in combination with Thunderbolt 3 and an eGPU box. So really, the "can't upgrade" argument comes down to things like the CPU and motherboard.
Personally if something that’s internal can only be upgraded by making it external I don’t deem that an upgrade. An add on sure but not an upgrade as you aren’t replacing the original parts, you simply stop using them and instead move a new one externally.
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I guess with the Hacintosh, I can choose Nvidia card if I want but if I buy an iMac PRO, I am stuck with AMD's GPU.

Also, if I want a pink iMac PRO, I will have to paint on such expensive computer.

But upgrading to High Sierra caused some users problems such as the recent security issue. I just stay with macOS for the time being. So, Mac being able to upgrade the the latest version of the OS may not be as desirable as in the past.
I don’t deny there are some benefits. I just mean that in a professional environment when you have clients and deadlines breathing down your neck you want to know your system will work perfectly or have an easy outlet to get it fixed. Most post houses don’t build their own machines for that exact reason: they are then in charge of them. If I build my machine and something goes wrong I need to spend my time troubleshooting it and getting it working again. If I buy my machine pre-built it’s on the company to fix it in a timely manner. That is an (albeit expensive) important detail for professionals.
 
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