iMac With M2 and M2 Pro Chips Could Arrive Soon, Says Latest Conflicting Rumor

[JimmyG]

Apple seems to have a pretty high bar for how many sales they need to make a model "profitable". Desktops are probably their smallest-selling line and - in earlier posts - I've suggested a list of reasons why desktop sales are likely to be declining (its a general trend anyway and Apple Silicon has removed any performance advantage between mid-range desktops and laptops) so I guess they think that selling a midrange/pro all-in-one and a separates range would spread sales too thinly.

I'm sure that the Mac Pro is that they see a tactical need to maintain a "pro" media creation routine, although I wouldn't be too shocked if the current Mac Pro is the last of its ilk.

I blame the iPhone - it is such big business that it makes the Mac look like a paying hobby, even though Apple are consistently the 4th largest personal computer manufacturer (probably higher if you ignore the "generic black boxes for corporates" market).

Well, it's a funny things how everyone can read numbers differently! I expect that the AIO user base is one that Apple will choose not to ignore, that they had to temporarily shelve it just to give their stand-alone Studio a fair shot to prove itself in the marketplace, I observe, is testament to that.

Bottomline, Cupertino knows their numbers and their user base better than any of our prognostications, my expectation is that AIO is part of Steve's Apple DNA and Tim's, too, be it phone/laptop/pad/desktop, and that the AIO lineup will continue on well into the future. Be we educational. corporate/business. home user, small shop, etc., we AIO-lovers know what we want and prefer and all the forum nay-saying and dickering to the contrary will not change that.

32"/6K and 42"/8K XDR iMacs, Tim! C'mon, let's bring 'em on!

 

[Bug-Creator]

we AIO-lovers know what we want and prefer and all the forum nay-saying and dickering to the contrary will not change that.

As a vocal minority you are almost as loud and big as the ones for the 12" MB or the iPhoneMini!!!


Well.....

 

[Adelphos33]

No offense to anyone, but no chance 6K or 8K iMacs will be released at a price range anyone will feel happy about. If you need 6K or 8K, you are better off buying those monitors and likely a Mac Studio / Mac Pro for intense graphic work. Even a hypothetical larger iMac will likely max out at the Pro chip

 

[guzhogi]

There are numerous hubs that add on storage ability and make a basic iMac into most anything you would like.

Sure, there are external hubs, but I'd still like some additional *internal* storage space.

 

[pacalis]

Desktops: I don't see any clear cases where an iMac, as an AIO, is better than a mini with a monitor, what benefits are there that offset the lack of repairability or easy replacement of a failed component?

You might as well say iMacs are worse than a mini with a unicorn, because apple doesn't sell either monitors or unicorns.

If Apple sold 27" monitors (and not computers pretending to be monitors), I'd buy two of them and wouldn't care so much about a 27" iMac.

 

[guzhogi]

iMacs are a niche, anything that depends on a permanent power cord plugged into the wall is, these days. The folks who do buy Mac desktops are extremely passionate, but we're also a very tiny audience. Fact of the matter is, most of us could get by on a MacBook Air and an external screen pretty happily. Which Apple is aware of.

I agree. My only thought is niche ≠ unimportant. I'm sure there are several heavy-duty graphic designers, video editors who need something with a bit more oomph than a laptop. Given Apple's resources, they can keep multiple product lines going, even if they are niche.

 

[theluggage]

Bottomline, Cupertino knows their numbers and their user base better than any of our prognostications, my expectation is that AIO is part of Steve's Apple DNA and Tim's, too,

...and, knowing those numbers, they produced the 24" M1 iMac in 2021 - very much designed as a nod to the original iMac - and have not updated it or released a 'pro' version since. That suggests that the 24" is what the majority of the AIO market actually want (its a lot better than the 21.5") and that - if they're buying for education or business use - they're not too fussed about the minor upgrade that the M2 will bring.

I'd be slightly surprised if they killed off the 24" and it never saw a M2 or M3 update - but the further you go up the CPU power/display size/resolution chain, the less sense it makes to have the display tied to the computer and the smaller the market they're splitting between AIO and separates.

Meanwhile, Jobs may have liked AIO machines - starting with the original Mac - but he also presided over:

- the Apple II etc.
- the NeXT cube
- the NextStation
- the G3/G4 tower
- the Mac Cube (...OK, draw a veil over that, but it looked great and wasn't AIO)
- the G5 tower (cheesegrater)
- the XServe
- the Mac Mini
- the original Mac Pro (cheesegrater).

...none of which were all-in-one (some offered matching displays) which really doesn't support the idea that he was only about all-in-one appliances.

 

[Chuckeee]

I agree. My only thought is niche ≠ unimportant. I'm sure there are several heavy-duty graphic designers, video editors who need something with a bit more oomph than a laptop. Given Apple's resources, they can keep multiple product lines going, even if they are niche.

You could hope but just look at Apple and the iPhone mini. And while by iPhones standards, Apple drop the iPhone mini form factor because it was to niche. But it you look at the market potential for a large iMac I would suspect its niche market is significantly smaller than the iPhone mini niche market.

The apparent logic was MOST iPhones mini customers would “suck it up” and buy a different iPhone anyways. It might be the same logic for large iMac, “MOST” niche customers will either eventually settle for a 24” iMac or a Mac mini with a large display.

An interesting question is why is there still a Mac Pro, it is also a niche market that can easily be supported by a Mac Studio ultra. Specifically since SoC has made removed support for external GPU and TB size RAM from Mac Pro.

 

[picpicmac]

why is there still a Mac Pro, it is also a niche market that can easily be supported by a Mac Studio ultra

I was under the impression that there are some, albeit few, expansion board requirements by sections of the Mac Pro user base. So the Mac Pro exists not because of CPU performance, and not because SoC, but rather the bus.

 

[picpicmac]

I don't see any clear cases where an iMac, as an AIO, is better than a mini with a monitor,

If one wants, for example, an iMac in the kitchen and your island has an outlet, as Marc Ellis did:

Much better than an Mac Mini with a ganglion of cables.

can't wait to see how this ages, see you in 2041!

I am typing this on an iMac now into its 16th year. These machines should be able to last two decades. What makes them obsolete is the software industry, which insists on bloatware. And a great deal of that bloatware, like in browsers, ends up being endless trackers to gather intel on you so you can be tempted to buy, buy, buy more and more and more.

So I think it is possible that an iMac (M1) bought in 2021 could still be working in 2041.

 

[Chuckeee]

I am typing this on an iMac now into its 16th year. These machines should be able to last two decades. What makes them obsolete is the software industry, which insists on bloatware. And a great deal of that bloatware, like in browsers, ends up being endless trackers to gather intel on you so you can be tempted to buy, buy, buy more and more and more.

So I think it is possible that an iMac (M1) bought in 2021 could still be working in 2041.

I agree that software is what will limit the usefulness of a computer as it ages. But I think it’s more an issue of security, than bloatware. If I try to access the Internet using my old G4 laptop, the issue is there isn’t a current browser available, and all the old browsers have insufficient security features to access today’s websites.

 

[icanhazmac]

You left off my point:

what benefits are there that offset the lack of repairability or easy replacement of a failed component

I still hold to this. It is great that your iMac is 16 years old but what if the screen dies, what if the ssd dies? Far easier to replace the monitor or the mini itself (if the SoC or SSD fails) versus replacing the entire AIO. Soldered on SSDs and non-upgradable RAM degrade the expected lifetime of an AIO even further.

Much better than an Mac Mini with a ganglion of cables.

2 cables, 1 power for the mini, 1 data (video) for the mini. Hardly a ganglion but noted.

These machines should be able to last two decades. What makes them obsolete is the software industry, which insists on bloatware. And a great deal of that bloatware, like in browsers, ends up being endless trackers to gather intel on you so you can be tempted to buy, buy, buy more and more and more.

On this we can agree!

So I think it is possible that an iMac (M1) bought in 2021 could still be working in 2041.

Working, yes. Daily driver, no way. Granted your point above is probably responsible for this. If Apple/Microsoft kept up with security updates at a minimum for old OSs we might actually see an increased lifetime.

 

[theluggage]

If one wants, for example, an iMac in the kitchen and your island has an outlet, as Marc Ellis did:

In the kitchen? What for? Blender?

...all joking apart, this is a perfect application for the 24" iMac and I doubt that will disappear any time soon. The question is, why would you need a 27" or Pro/Max processor in that situation?

 

[theluggage]

An interesting question is why is there still a Mac Pro, it is also a niche market that can easily be supported by a Mac Studio ultra. Specifically since SoC has made removed support for external GPU and TB size RAM from Mac Pro.

A Studio Ultra can't match the Mac Pro when it comes to PCIe bandwidth or number of slots - you can get TB3 to PCIe expansion boxes but they offer fewer slots and a fraction of the bandwidth, with a max of 4 lanes of PCIe 3 and no PCIe4, vs (I think) 24 lanes of PCIe4 on the Mac Pro.

You can't run GPUs in it, but some people still need specialist PCIe cards for AV interfaces, and/or want a machine with huge internal storage - and that they're prepared to pay $7000 a pop. If you have a card that actually needs 8 lanes or more of PCIe then the Mac Pro is the only (MacOS-running) game in town.

Also, I doubt it cost Apple that much to develop - the case is recycled from the 2019 Mac Pro and has tons of space to fit a much smaller, cooler-running system - so no tricky ultra-miniature logic boards or edge-of-the-envelope cooling systems to design, the PCIe lanes appear to come from the spare second SSD interface that comes with the M2 Ultra SoC, and PCIe switches and socketry are hardly rocket surgery c.f. the effort needed to cram a huge power supply into the Studio Display and design tiny spatial audio speakers...

 

[Chuckeee]

A Studio Ultra can't match the Mac Pro when it comes to PCIe bandwidth or number of slots - you can get TB3 to PCIe expansion boxes but they offer fewer slots and a fraction of the bandwidth, with a max of 4 lanes of PCIe 3 and no PCIe4, vs (I think) 24 lanes of PCIe4 on the Mac Pro.

You can't run GPUs in it, but some people still need specialist PCIe cards for AV interfaces, and/or want a machine with huge internal storage - and that they're prepared to pay $7000 a pop. If you have a card that actually needs 8 lanes or more of PCIe then the Mac Pro is the only (MacOS-running) game in town.

Also, I doubt it cost Apple that much to develop - the case is recycled from the 2019 Mac Pro and has tons of space to fit a much smaller, cooler-running system - so no tricky ultra-miniature logic boards or edge-of-the-envelope cooling systems to design, the PCIe lanes appear to come from the spare second SSD interface that comes with the M2 Ultra SoC, and PCIe switches and socketry are hardly rocket surgery c.f. the effort needed to cram a huge power supply into the Studio Display and design tiny spatial audio speakers...

Learned something new and it all makes sense. But it is still a niche market but I will grant you it’s very prestigious market.

 

[Abazigal]

In the kitchen? What for? Blender?

...all joking apart, this is a perfect application for the 24" iMac and I doubt that will disappear any time soon. The question is, why would you need a 27" or Pro/Max processor in that situation?

MKBHD famously used to bring his iMac Pro overseas with him in a custom pelican case, so he could use it to edit videos when covering tech news.

 

[JimmyG]

Well, it's off to the Apple store later to check out some iPhones for the holiday shopping season, too bad that they won't have any 32" 6K XDR iMacs on display to show off FCP or iMovie or any of the glorious 4K HDR content in its full resolution we customers will be creating and working on with those phones!

That's a mighty big hole in the product line up! C'mon, Tim, help us AIO lovers with our shopping!

 

[Gudi]

2 cables, 1 power for the mini, 1 data (video) for the mini. Hardly a ganglion but noted.

😆 Two speakers L and R and at least one subwoofer, all of them need power. So that's four extra cables minimum. I allow for one microphone instead of the noice-canceling three microphone array. And a webcam and I guess we won't have TrueTone and an ambient light sensor? So that's already 8× times the amount of cable clutter for a worse user experience and more expensive too. Remember, you've got to buy all that plus a keyboard and a mouse.

The Mini is such a laughable bad deal. All for the mere fantasy that you could upgrade your setup at any time. When Apple released the Pro Display XDR in 2019, not even the newest Mac mini 2018 with a Thunderbolt 3 port made it on the compatibility list.

 

[icanhazmac]

Two speakers L and R and at least one subwoofer, all of them need power. So that's four extra cables minimum. I allow for one microphone instead of the noice-canceling three microphone array. And a webcam and I guess we won't have TrueTone and an ambient light sensor? So that's already 8× times the amount of cable clutter for a worse user experience and more expensive too. Remember, you've got to buy all that plus a keyboard and a mouse.

LOL, you moved the goal posts. You cannot count speakers and a sub as a valid comparison versus an iMac's internal speakers. Does the iMac have speakers, yes, are they a 2.1 equivalent? No way. One can get a monitor with speakers and a web cam, plenty of them available. Try harder.

 

[guzhogi]

An interesting question is why is there still a Mac Pro, it is also a niche market that can easily be supported by a Mac Studio ultra. Specifically since SoC has made removed support for external GPU and TB size RAM from Mac Pro.

I agree, Mac Pros are pretty niche. However, I do like having some internal expansion slots to keep my desk area cleaner. Plus, Thunderbolt is limited to what? PCIe 3 x4 lanes, while the current Mac Pro has PCIe 4 x8 and x16 slots. Not the latest & greatest PCIe version, but something.

I'd still like some additional internal storage, like M.2 or U.2 as a secondary storage option.

 

[dandyryan]

I believe I did.

Before you try and be unnecessarily pedantic, I was clearly referring to the iMac and other AIO desktops.

While a laptop is certainly an AIO, there is a very clear need and use case for portable computing.

I still stand by my assertion that there is little need or use case for an AIO desktop versus a mini and monitor combo which have very similar computing power and use cases. As far as I can see all the iMac offers versus a mini and monitor is 2 less cables and a bit less desk space.

Please, if you have a well thought out use case where an iMac setup outweighs my perceived downsides to a mini and monitor I’m willing to hear it.

Nah you didn't.

 

[chucker23n1]

I believe I did.

Before you try and be unnecessarily pedantic, I was clearly referring to the iMac and other AIO desktops.

Except you said "I really wish the AIO form factor would just die.", when the opposite is occurring: the vast majority of computing takes place on AIOs. Most of it, across the world, on smartphones, followed by laptops and tablets. And then of course there's all kinds of other computer-like devices that are AIO: smartwatches, headsets, whathaveyou.

Now, if you meant "I really wish the AIO form factor would just die on desktops", your wish is everyone's command because desktops are dying, too.

 

[picpicmac]

The Mini is such a laughable bad deal.

On the contrary, the Mini is a good deal IF one already has separate components, which many people do. I can reuse my current keyboard and Logitech trackball. All I need to buy is a monitor.

 

[Gudi]

LOL, you moved the goal posts. You cannot count speakers and a sub as a valid comparison versus an iMac's internal speakers. Does the iMac have speakers, yes, are they a 2.1 equivalent? No way. One can get a monitor with speakers and a web cam, plenty of them available. Try harder.

You're right I can't. The 24" M1 iMac has two speakers and four force-cancelling subwoofers, that's six audio and four power cables plus three for microphones. 13 cables for an equivalent sound system with support for 3D spatial audio with Dolby Atmos. I'd say $300 for one of equal quality, if you find one. I tried to be easy on you with regarding a 2.1 system with just one microphone a sufficient replacement, but it isn't.

Post your Mac mini setups

If you look how most people's Mini setups actually look like, the speakers are almost always terrible. I know, because I also have a 2012 Mini. It's currently hooked to an early 2000s 19" 3:2 TFT monitor and a pair of 90s Walkman speakers. You gotta use what you already have, right? 😆

 

[theluggage]

Except you said "I really wish the AIO form factor would just die.", when the opposite is occurring: the vast majority of computing takes place on AIOs. Most of it, across the world, on smartphones, followed by laptops and tablets.

This thread is about all-in-one desktops which is what all-in-one or AIO is typically used to refer to. Yes, laptops, mobiles, tablets etc, have the screen, processor and input device "all in one piece" but when was the last time you heard someone refer to their phone as an "all-in-one computer"? When people say all-in-one they inevitably mean an iMac-like system.

I guarantee that nobody here arguing against "the AIO form factor" is talking about phones, laptops or tablets.

...actually, increasingly powerful laptops (with relatively large, high definition screens) are likely a big part of the reason for why AIO desktops are declining. One reason for choosing desktop over laptop is that you want to choose your own display, keyboard and mouse.