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I wonder how long we'll be getting full detail updates on this game of whack-a-mole. I expect it's going to be going on for months, possibly even years. Are sites like The Verge going to keep updating with every traded blow?
 
What if you have many Apple devices but some Android, and want to continue conversations across different devices? Is there any chat service aside from iMessage which doesn’t allow this?
Far more people have an iPhone and a Windows PC, so by that logic Apple should make a Windows version first. Thus allowing Android/Windows users with no Apple devices to use Apple’s messaging service. At which point it doesn’t make any sense to use it in the first place, unless you acknowledge that it is a better service than competition.
 
I wonder how long we'll be getting full detail updates on this game of whack-a-mole. I expect it's going to be going on for months, possibly even years. Are sites like The Verge going to keep updating with every traded blow?
In the case of The Verge, probably yes.
 
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I'm not inclined to care whether a third-party company profits off of Apple servers and services or not.

However, I would also caution that we shouldn't think that just because a third-party found a way to access such services and servers therefore means they are now championing open standards for the sake of the public and for the sake of individual freedom / individual rights, etc. etc.

That narrative is decisively false and a red herring design to actually distract us from the continued neoliberal advancement where companies are fighting each other for themselves (and for their rich wealthy owners) in the guise of fighting it for the little guy. They are NOT fighting it for the little guy -- AT ALL. These companies and the wealthy are working the system to claim more and more rights while the everyday commoner is left to the side, but definitely being USED as a pawn to buy sympathy.

In other words, don't go all gung-ho waving flags and shouting about how this is now a win for the little guy. IT ISN'T.
 
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I’m in favor of anybody being a pain in the ass for Apple as long as they continue to let this issue fester.

I’m hoping RCS alleviates a lot of the headaches, but if it doesn’t, then the only way Apple can end this stupid issue is to release iMessage for Android.
Thanks for saying this. Most rational macrumors post so far I’m all for this Tom and Jerry too.
 
I have group chats on iOS which I use all the time. Do you see how this can be a problem?

I think you see the issue and have a crappy workaround, and you conclude that there’s no problem.

If there was no problem, wouldn’t be having these debates!
Using RCS isn’t going to resolve the group message issue. Whether someone is using SMS or RCS won’t matter as they’re both not being managed through the iMessages server. RCS will simply mean you can send/receive media at native resolutions, send longer messages, get read receipts and see typing indicators. That’s probably about it.
 
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Far more people have an iPhone and a Windows PC, so by that logic Apple should make a Windows version first. Thus allowing Android/Windows users with no Apple devices to use Apple’s messaging service. At which point it doesn’t make any sense to use it in the first place, unless you acknowledge that it is a better service than competition.
I’d argue that a major portion of consumers simply don’t use Windows or Mac at all. Enabling iMessage on Windows will fill in some gaps in the potential user base, but Android will essentially make it available to everyone on-the-go.

Also, why not make Messages for Windows? I would personally love that.

Maybe make it so you need a higher-tier Apple One plan. Make it so your main device needs to be an iPhone.
 
Beware. Allowing a 3rd party company access to your Apple ID to deliver you iMessages will also allow them access to everything else associated with your Apple ID. These companies will typically keep your Apple ID signed into a server based Mac and although they will claim that iMessages are the only part of your Apple account they will use, you have no guarantee that they are not seeing or harvesting other data from your account, nor can you be guaranteed that this company is keeping that system secure and protected enough from data breaches and hacking the way Apple does.
That’s not how Beeper Mini works. Beeper Cloud and other services, yes. Beeper Mini was the first I’m aware of to implement iMessage running directly on-device, using one’s phone number (unavailable at least for now), instead of requiring some passthrough server.

I haven’t yet seen whether Beeper Mini’s new setup allows them to see your Apple ID credentials at all, let alone whether they keep them.

ETA: Beeper appears to claim in their blog post about this that the new Beeper Mini setup remains strictly on-device, implying that any information is sent directly to Apple. I’ve asked them to clarify this explicitly, though.

ETA (again): Yep, they clarified that Apple ID information for Beeper Mini is strictly on-device.
 
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Yep, I was right. This is just like the time Palm kept hacking things to get their phones to connect to iTunes. Apple will respond again, shutting it down again. They can keep trying, but it didn't work out well for Palm. This is Apple, and they're much bigger now, and this company is much smaller than Palm was at the time. If you subscribe to this "service", you're dumb. At the very least, even if we entertain the notion that Apple can't stop this, their lawyers certainly will since this company is charging a fee to use Apple's servers.

This is what I wrote on the last story, and I think it's worth it for Apple to try this:

Ok, I finally have a solution.

Apple says this is a service, and they provide it to their paying customers (people who own Apple devices) free of charge. Makes sense, they have server, maintenance, security, and feature development costs. Can’t give it away.

Apple likes money and wants to grow their services unit. People like blue bubbles. If you want to use this on a non-Apple device, charge $15/mo for a login and make an app for Android, Chrome OS and Windows. Enough people will pay for it that it will make Apple a killing, because people are crazy and enough people would actually pay that much just to fit in. Maybe even more? Sad but true. Look no further than clothing brands. I don’t think they would lose a significant amount of users to Android because it still makes using Android and iMessages more expensive, and most Apple users genuinely like their products.

Problem solved?
 
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I have group chats on iOS which I use all the time. Do you see how this can be a problem?

I think you see the issue and have a crappy workaround, and you conclude that there’s no problem.

If there was no problem, wouldn’t be having these debates!
I don’t know exactly how these systems work, but I can imagine it is not simple to span devices like Apple is doing it, if you are a third party client on one or more of the platforms. My guess is that people eant iMessage because of how well it works on an all Apple ecosystem, but if they got access to it, the experience is likely to be l’not so great. I can see how Apple would bot want to provide a poor iMessage experience on Android and Windows, because that is poor marketing for the Apple ecosystem.
 
I couldn't care less if Apple has a tizzy fit over iMessage on Android. We need cross-device interoperability today more than ever. The lack of transparency with these companies is what really concerns me. Refusal to Open Source even the basic portions of the app is just asking for trouble, especially from a company that claims that level of encryption. Even Apple strongly supports OSS from a security standpoint, these people are just grifters begging for personal data.
 
I don’t know exactly how these systems work, but I can imagine it is not simple to span devices like Apple is doing it, if you are a third party client on one or more of the platforms. My guess is that people eant iMessage because of how well it works on an all Apple ecosystem, but if they got access to it, the experience is likely to be l’not so great. I can see how Apple would bot want to provide a poor iMessage experience on Android and Windows, because that is poor marketing for the Apple ecosystem.
It is a chat app — hardly different from Facebook Messenger or WhatsApp.

If Apple can offer Apple Music and TV apps, they can handle a simple chat client.

I’d argue that no interoperability at all is worse for “marketing” than allowing it. Is Apple getting good press over the lack of iMessage on other platforms?
 
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I wonder how long we'll be getting full detail updates on this game of whack-a-mole. I expect it's going to be going on for months, possibly even years. Are sites like The Verge going to keep updating with every traded blow?
Yeah I’d imagine they would keep reporting the news.
 
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I’d argue that a major portion of consumers simply don’t use Windows or Mac at all. Enabling iMessage on Windows will fill in some gaps in the potential user base, but Android will essentially make it available to everyone on-the-go.

Also, why not make Messages for Windows? I would personally love that.

Maybe make it so you need a higher-tier Apple One plan. Make it so your main device needs to be an iPhone.
Messaging is already fragmented, even though plenty of apps are available on all platforms. One more messaging service that is available to everyone will not magically make everyone use the same service. Especially not one that costs money, while all the others are free.

Beeper Mini or similar is not a magic bullet” to unite everyone. It is just a guy trying to make a bit of dough by spotting a niche.
 
So what are they doing now? Sounds awfully a lot like them doing Beeper cloud disguised as their new mini way. Why else would they use your credentials to log you into iMessage?
 
Messaging is already fragmented, even though plenty of apps are available on all platforms. One more messaging service that is available to everyone will not magically make everyone use the same service. Especially not one that costs money, while all the others are free.

Beeper Mini or similar is not a magic bullet” to unite everyone. It is just a guy trying to make a bit of dough by spotting a niche.
Yeah I’m not saying Beeper Mini is the solution — not at all. I just want a legitimate solution.
 
It is a chat app — hardly different from Facebook Messenger or WhatsApp.

If Apple can offer Apple Music and TV apps, they can handle a simple chat client.

I’d argue that no interoperability at all is worse for “marketing” than allowing it. Is Apple getting good press over the lack of iMessage on other platforms?
Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp are not as good as iMessage. I use both. Apple Music and TV are more or less stand alone apps, where you are not very likely to switch devices on-the-fly like you are with messaging apps.

And more importantly, since apps like those already exist, what is iMessage bringing to the table anyway?
 
In the case of The Verge, probably yes.
Is it just me or is The Verge pretty much on the same level as Gizmodo in terms of clickbaity, low quality tech news? I still largely remember The Verge as the site that had the temerity to complain about mobile web browser performance while having over 50 tracking scripts on a single page load.
 
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Beware. Allowing a 3rd party company access to your Apple ID to deliver you iMessages will also allow them access to everything else associated with your Apple ID. These companies will typically keep your Apple ID signed into a server based Mac and although they will claim that iMessages are the only part of your Apple account they will use, you have no guarantee that they are not seeing or harvesting other data from your account, nor can you be guaranteed that this company is keeping that system secure and protected enough from data breaches and hacking the way Apple does.
Didn't Nothing and Sunbird do this? Their shoddy implementation allowed attackers to snoop on messages with very little skill and effort. It looks like this might lead to a similar situation. An Apple ID ties to things like healthcare information, keychain passwords, credit and debit cards, etc. It seems absurd to hand that info to a third party. People are perfectly entitled to pester Apple to release iMessage on Android (heck, they could charge a subscription and make a killing), but nobody should be condoning this approach.
 
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